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What interesting aircraft weapons do we not have?

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So I've been slowly reading "Red Star Against the Swastika", which was recommended by someone on these forums and one interesting weapon the pilot described using was burning phosphorous.

 

He described dropping it from their IL-2s on tanks, supply columns, troop columns, and enemy aircraft at airfields.

 

Do you guys know of any other interesting aircraft weapons that were used on the Eastern front that we don't have in the simulator?

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The Germans fitted a minelet dispenser under some fighters to attack the masses of aircraft lined up on Soviet airfields at the beginning of Barbarossa, IIRC.  Cannot find the reference as usual... 

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The Germans fitted a minelet dispenser under some fighters to attack the masses of aircraft lined up on Soviet airfields at the beginning of Barbarossa, IIRC.  Cannot find the reference as usual... 

 

Yes, SD bomblets fitted to medium bombers, they were very succesful in destroying the crowded Soviet planes parked in line at the airfields

 

sd1.jpg

 

But some had the tendency to stay in the plane's bomb bay and then explode when the plane landed back at the base, so a week or so after Barbarossa they were taken out of service (not the bomblets themselves I think, but the bomb bay storage they used).

Edited by SuperEtendard
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That is it! I thought someone who knows what they are talking about would come along with the details. My recollection that they were on fighters is obviously wrong though. I also recall reading that the minelets that did not fall out tended to be shaken lose by the gear being lowered, so planes approaching the base left a line of explosions behind them....again no recollection of where I read that but matches your account.

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My recollection that they were on fighters is obviously wrong though. I also recall reading that the minelets that did not fall out tended to be shaken lose by the gear being lowered, so planes approaching the base left a line of explosions behind them....again no recollection of where I read that but matches your account.

 

You are absolutely right, SD-2 was also used on fighters, good memory. Some of the Bf 109 and Bf 110 units used this weapon in Barbarossa -

 

bf-109e-3b.jpg

 

Here are manuals for use of SD-2 on Bf 109 and Bf 110 -

http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me%20109/Bf_109_E_Bedienung_Abwurfwaffe.pdf

http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Messerschmitt/Me%20110/Bf%20110%20E%20Bo%20Bedienung%20u.%20Wartung.pdf

 

-----------------------------

 

Cluster bombs, like German AB-bombs/containers are IMHO a must for this simulator.

Edited by Farky
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My recollection that they were on fighters is obviously wrong though. I also recall reading that the minelets that did not fall out tended to be shaken lose by the gear being lowered, so planes approaching the base left a line of explosions behind them....again no recollection of where I read that but matches your account.

They could be fitted on fighters too. Also there were many diffrent typs of these small bombs the most dangerous one is the SD 2 which is sometimes also called butterfly bomb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_Bomb

As for the losses of german bombers through the SD2 there were only very view cases were a SD 2  damaged a plane i could only find one case were a landing aircraft exploded because one bomb was stuck on the aircraft and one other Ju 88 that flew right into a SD 2 that was just droped by another plane.

All the other aircraft losses of these units useing the SD 2 were caused by the enamy anti aircraft fire. To drop the SD 2 you had to fly between 15m to max. 25m high which made you a target for every gun that could fire at you. Three planes with SD 2 were useually enough to close a airfileld for many hours and destroy most of the planes parked there! The later AB containers fixed the problem with the low flying they could be droped from much saver hights.

 

More Info:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26118-he-111-permanent-external-hardpoint-prevents-full-internal-l/?view=findpost&p=414102

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/21086-weapons-and-ammunition-and-related-equipment-thread/?view=findpost&p=333796

none standart weapons:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25575-what-are-your-impressions/?view=findpost&p=396216

Edited by Gunsmith86
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Great - not quite completely senile just yet ..... ;)

 

I love that Gothic font in Farky's SD-2 manuals.

 

Edit - not only did they use them in Barbarossa, but if that Emil is from 1/SG1 as the emblem suggests, they must have been in use for a while, since the unit was not in operations until May 1942.

Could be fun for the Stalingrad campaign. 

Edited by unreasonable

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Edit - not only did they use them in Barbarossa, but if that Emil is from 1/SG1 as the emblem suggests, they must have been in use for a while, since the unit was not in operations until May 1942.

Could be fun for the Stalingrad campaign. 

 

This Emil is from II.(Schl.)/LG 2 , picture was taken in summer 1941 in USSR. Emblem is Infanterie-Sturmabzeichen (Infantry Assault Badge), which various Luftwaffe Schlachtgruppen used on airplanes. I believe that SD-2s were used in Stalingrad campaign, but not like on picture, in standard AB cluster bombs.

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Happy to take your word for it - Google search the picture you get 3 hits, two unit attributions and a don't know.  Books are still best....

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Well for the Germans we only have SC series bombs not SD - which were commonly used as well. Also there were incendiary bomblets dropped from He 111. I'm digging up info on stuka's lately for my campaign and they mention using Flammenbombe in 250kg and 500kg size. 

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There's a fine book covering the history of the topic and the basic technical details:

 

Wolfgang Fleischer

Deutsche Abwurfmunition bis 1945

(German dropping ordnance until 1945)

Motorbuch-Verlag, Stuttgart, 2003

 

Quite rare, but more detailed a binder covering the ordnance itself in some detail:

 

Karl R. Pawlas

Munitions-Lexikon

Band 3: Deutsche Bomben

(Ammunition encyclopaedia - Volume 3 German bombs)

Karl R. Pawlas-Verlag, Nürnberg, 1977

 

The latter contains information about areas typically covered with container drops, the only source I found on this topic. Those two books combined cover a lot of questions, if there are some, let me know.

 

The SD2 was used beginning with the invasion of the Soviet Union in summer 1941. The weapon itself was effective against area targets with sensitive detonators and as landmines with timed fuses. The crews and pilots feared the early rack mountings / distributors as shown above, because sometimes single bomblets refused to drop, but were armed and extremely sensitive.

  Later the containers solved that problem and were filled with a variety of bomb-lets from 1 to 10 kg, small calibre grenades, conquered ammunition - as long as there finally was a large number of fragments covering an area like 100 x 200 m, it was packed into containers and dropped.

 

  First use of containers from the beginning of the war on was the transport of small incendiary bombs. Larger incendiary bombs were used, too:

 

- "C-50" - combined 6 kg HE-charge, 67 incendiary mini-bomblets and 6 larger ones, 50 kg

- "Brand C-50 A" - 12 kg incendiary plasticine combined with phosphorous, 50 kg

- "Brand C-50 B" - 17 kg incendiary plasticine combined with phosphorous, 50 kg

- "Flam C-250" - 74 kg mix of petrol and oil, 125 kg

- "Flam C-250 B" - 60 kg mix of petrol and oil, 125 kg

- "Flam C-250 C" - 60 kg mix of petrol and oil, 125 kg

- "Brand C-250 A" - 65 kg incendiary plasticine combined with phosphorous, 185 kg

- "Flam C-500 C" - 157 kg mix of petrol and oil, 225 kg (covered area of 30 - 40 m diameter)

- "Streubrand C-500" - 146 kg alcohol combined with 1400 "incendiary boxes", 180 kg

 

Looking at the reports and the production numbers the Luftwaffe never made intense use of the larger incendiary bombs, here are the average numbers of bombs dropped by the Luftwaffe monthly:

 

post-1187-0-25561900-1495981337_thumb.png

 

(Fleischer, 2003, p. 128)

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the one thing i dont see in any of the maps ,campains e.t.c is barrage balloons,could they please be implimented into the il2 series,thanks.

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On 3/21/2019 at 8:51 AM, Skidz said:

the one thing i dont see in any of the maps ,campains e.t.c is barrage balloons,could they please be implimented into the il2 series,thanks.

 

They are on the Moscow map... 

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Well it would be interesting to see Schrage Musik in the sim.... But I guess we need bombers for that? 

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5 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Well it would be interesting to see Schrage Musik in the sim.... But I guess we need bombers for that? 

 

It makes zero sense to add such a feature without a proper set of night bombers and a map to go with it. 

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3 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

It makes zero sense to add such a feature without a proper set of night bombers and a map to go with it. 

 

Potentially the bodenplatte map could be reworked in the future to be set in 1943, should be more then enough targets like the harbors of rotterdam/antwerp or industrial area's like rhein-ruhr or all the factories located at the many cities the map has, we only are missing an extension of the map westwards to include britain and we would have an perfect map.

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And as the dev's have stated over and over that we will not have heavy bombers in the game, what would be the point?

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On 3/27/2019 at 4:14 AM, Trooper117 said:

And as the dev's have stated over and over that we will not have heavy bombers in the game, what would be the point?

Didn't they also say they would never do western europe? Never know what the future holds.

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No, they said they would not do the Battle of Britain or Africa as CloD was doing that as I understand it...

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