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as its completely off topic ill just say this..

Sodium is not a metal

TABLE Salt used for food IS A METAL

Google it

Wiki It

 

Well, depends on what *you* use as table salt...

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Salts can be easily identified since they usually consist of positive ions from a metal with negative ions from a non metal.

The salt we put on our fries is actually sodium chloride and is made up of a Na1+ (that's our metal) and a Cl1- (our non-metal). Often you will see this written as Na+ and Cl- (the 1 is dropped), or simply NaCl.
Straight out of Encyclopedia there is nothing to argue about lols look Periodic Table SODIUM IS A METAL TOP LEFT 3RD ONE DOWN

8p8u8ZG.jpg



Anyways..

many forms of wood treated correctly can be stronger than metals.
as a plane is not made from metal like you old car or work truck.
think more like old tin can(non alloy)

Edited by =r4t=Sshadow14

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Sodium is not a metal

 

 

SODIUM IS A METAL

 

Your inability to admit you made a mistake, and then contradict yourself and restate exactly what I just said  as if it's a counterpoint is frankly astounding. I won't be continuing this discussion since the facts are clear to all involved.

 

Sorry for my part in the off-topic folks, I couldn't help myself.

Edited by 19//curiousGamblerr

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Sorry fixed the typo did not even see it ..
Its all good its not like im claiming evolution here just basic chemistry look at the SPOILER (What COLOUR IS SODIUM)

Edited by =r4t=Sshadow14

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Time to add a twist and make this thread more, ahem, salty:

 

Technically speaking what we know as table salt is actually a mineral: halite.

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The elements get that clasification because that's their characteristic in their elemental form, being pure, without having reacted with anything else.

 

Na is a metal... when it's only Na (0), when it reacts with something else it can change it's characteristics, like salt, hidroxides, etc totally different properties to a metal.

 

Oxygen and Hydrogen are gases, however water isn't, and we certainly aren't either, even though we are composed in a huge margin by those atoms.

 

it's simple as that really

Edited by SuperEtendard

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Sodium is a metal.

 

Salt (sodium chloride, NaCl) is not a metal. Anyone who thinks salt is a metal does not understand basic chemistry. This is stuff that they teach you in Grade 9 science class.

 

Wood composites can be very strong, and a wood composite was used to build some Soviet aircraft. This is not basic stuff, and people spend their entire PhD degrees and research careers developing composite materials.

 

End this silly thread.

Edited by JG13_opcode
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As JG13_opcode said, this is not a basic stuff to explain as as such is pointless to go with science and tech talk in details.

 

Maybe some analogy instead how some materials are stronger while undamaged, but more fragile as soon as they take any structural damage.

 

Good example is aluminium and carbon fiber. Carbon fiber done right can withstand much higher forces then aluminium before breaking (so you would think it's always stronger material), but as soon as something sharp damages it, it breaks easy, while aluminium just gets dented or bent.

 

Or even simpler, think or ordinary glass and thick see trough nylon. Windshield form glass is sturdier as speed goes up then nylon one, but what happens to windshield when high speed object (like bullet) hits glass one or the nylon one? Some materials hold much better then others once you start drilling holes in them regardless which is stronger while intact.

 

Hope this elevate some of your frustration so you can get back to enjoying the sim instead (or even flying VVS planes when you see 3to1 numbers in axis favor since those wooden crates are so strong ;))

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I wish people would stop posting one off multiplayer vids clearly showing a netcode/lag issue and demanding FM/DM changes

 

are some people really that dense/inexperienced or just love to stir up **** ?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

  • Upvote 2

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Cyclops has a good point. Especially when we are talking about structural damage in an aircraft, it's massively important to look at how well the material keeps its structural integrity after being damaged.

 

The example of glass is a good one. Tempered glass can be insanely hard, but as soon as it is damage the structural breakdown is almost instantaneous.

 

The extreme example is a Prince Rupert's drop. The bulbous head is so hard that it will shatter a bullet fired at it, but as soon as the shockwave hits the vulnerable tail, it breaks down into small flakes so fast, that it can hardly even be captured by a high speed camera.

 

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So turning an eye to the original post.

A wood-resin composite construction could be stronger than a thin layer of duraluminun or whatever material they were using at that time. The construction process and the amount of material of the structural parts are the ones who will define that.

Now and for little long the aeronautical industry is moving more to composite materials, being more resistant and lightweight but incredible expensive.

So, could be that wood-resin structure be stronger that metal in some characteristics?: of course. Will be lighter?: of course not. So it depends of what characteristics the designers intended and what materials they had available.

Not stating that what we have represented is correct(because I have no data positive or negative) but don't underestimate what a composite can do because you'll be surprised.

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Were Ilyushin IL-2's easy to shoot down because they had fairly large area of wood/composite wings...?

 

I have not seen any reports from Luftwaffe pilots saying 'shoot for the weak wooden parts' (does not mean there aren't any)

 

although a lot of the IL-2 'flying tank' legend is exaggerated it was respected throughout the war as a fairly tough customer, without obvious weak spots other than unarmoured oil cooler being cited

 

Cheers Dakpilot 

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I am pretty sure my crosswinds are both metal and some resin composite material...I bet they taste a little salty as I fly barefoot often.

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if you want to see what's wrong, take out the 110 G-2 put the BK 3,7 on and shoot at a Pe-2 with HE and after that with AP. Did that yesterday. and every time i hit the Pe-2 with AP either a wing falls off or it's burning in multiple places. HE ....no such thing. the entire game has either AP effectiveness against planes over done or HE effectiveness is lack luster. i tend to say it's the a combination of both, as a result German Minengeschosse aren't as powerful as pilot accounts and trial make them out to be.

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What a bad luck...

Only when we are flying german we lose a packet or we have a trouble connection. Damm bad luck!

 

 

 

[Edited]

 

S!

 

The difference being, when one of "these" Axis pilot looses a few packets, they immediately go to the forum to make 7 different topics about it.

The red team just goes on because [edited] happens.

 

 

Anyone here playing DCS?

 

I feel like the 109 has become the F15 from DCS.

People buy the game and immediately jump into that aircraft because HURRDURR.

In DCS, it's because HURRDURR MURICA and in IL-2 it's because HURRDURR GERMAN TECHNOLOGY

 

They think they are somehow immediately superior by flying a certain aircraft.

In DCS, the average HURRDURR F15 pilot knows only half his aircraft, flies at 10 feet altitude max, completely alone and without being in teamspeak or listening to anyone else and spams 10 AIM-120's at a single target at max range. Afterwards they complain the fighter is unrealistic after they lose a turnfight to an SU-27.

 

In IL-2 I see the same thing happen. People are brand new to the game, immediately go to multiplayer and choose the first 109 available to them.

They don't know tactics, can't aim for [edited] and then go to complain about the soviets being overpowered. 

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Lenguage
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Were Ilyushin IL-2's easy to shoot down because they had fairly large area of wood/composite wings...?

Yes, they were more susceptible to damage that the 1941 that was pure metal.

The German HE shells were really dangerous for the wooden areas, specially the big wing area on the slowest IL2.

A 109 with gunpods was a very dangerous foe for the IL2 crews.

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this has nothing to do with the yak, an FW190 has done this to me before...

 

Regardless of which airplane was, the DM has problems and needs to be reviewed, this is a fact!

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i have no idea how to use the editor, so if anyone wants to do this go ahead ;)

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Stop thinking that wooden construction means its made out of the same stuff as your kitchen table.
 

 

Russian planes were contracted out to IKEA.

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Regardless of which airplane was, the DM has problems and needs to be reviewed, this is a fact!

But it's not the DM causing this, it's a network issue. I've seen a 109 smash through a Pe2 in the same way. Obviously the DM doesn't work that way, it's just some flaky netcode and crappy pings since we don't have geographically distributed servers like blockbuster multiplayer games.

 

I challenge anyone to recreate the smash through issue in single player. There's no chance.

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The difference being, when one of "these" Axis pilot looses a few packets, they immediately go to the forum to make 7 different topics about it. The red team just goes on because shit happens.

To see heavily damaged russian aircrafts maintain their performance and their lethal potential I dont believe that we can dismiss with connection problems.

Dont ever think that maybe it could be true the things that are said or written?
Cant solve every discussion with connection problems and packet loss!

 

S!

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Regardless of which airplane was, the DM has problems and needs to be reviewed, this is a fact!

I don't think its a damage model issue, but a net code issue.

 

IMO, the DM is fine.

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To see heavily damaged russian aircrafts maintain their performance and their lethal potential I dont believe that we can dismiss with connection problems.

Dont ever think that maybe it could be true the things that are said or written?

Cant solve every discussion with connection problems and packet loss!

 

S!

 

 

Then do some proper offline testing with people from your squad to negate any netcode/packet loss issues record the results and make a correct bug report instead of cluttering up every thread with bias BS which some so often claim

 

If you think it is true and it bothers you so, do something constructive to help instead of perpetuating the idea/myth of the Luftwhiner being alive and well

 

Cheers Dakpilot

  • Upvote 3

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I wish people would stop posting one off multiplayer vids clearly showing a netcode/lag issue and demanding FM/DM changes

 

are some people really that dense/inexperienced or just love to stir up **** ?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Maybe the netcode needs to be addressed if DM is good offline? If we don't post our videos, you'll continue to have these NaCl threads until it gets fixed.

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In IL-2 I see the same thing happen. People are brand new to the game, immediately go to multiplayer and choose the first 109 available to them. They don't know tactics, can't aim for shit and then go to complain about the soviets being overpowered. 

I love those "How to Start Engine" Chat messages shortly afterwards followed by "Russians so biased, mony back pls"

 

Flying both pretty much 50/50 on DED Random Expert and I don't really see it.  I had 109s survive the LaGG-3s 37mm and I died from 109s putting 2 or 3 MG rounds into my Il-2 and cutting off the rudder or elevator Controls. I have survived Massive Attacks in my 88 (just last week a Squadmate and Me shot down 4 MiG-3s before I stupidly dropped my 500kg Bombs while he was passing under me. He killed 3, I did one and we could still have gotten to friendly lines at least). 

 

And I had the opposite happening as well. Skill and Tactical thinking often are all that matters. Arrogance and Lack of Awareness is what kills most. Just because your 109 has a somewhat better rate of Climb than a Yak, doesn't mean he won't be able to point his nose up for long enough to put some Pot Shots in and cripple you. Just because your Yak is a good Dogfighter doesn't make it a good idea to try and outturn a desperate Bf110. 

If you are in a Situation where you have to rely on your ability to Tank damage, you have set yourself up to get killed. 

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To see heavily damaged russian aircrafts maintain their performance and their lethal potential I dont believe that we can dismiss with connection problems.

Dont ever think that maybe it could be true the things that are said or written?

 

1, that's total and utter nonsense. Try flying something else than precious Übermensch planes.

 

2, Heavens forbid that different planes have different historical attributes! Someone tell the devs that what we really want is one kind of fighter, one kind of bomber and one ground attack plane, with both sides flying the same ones so no plane has any kind of advantage over another.

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Regardless of which airplane was, the DM has problems and needs to be reviewed, this is a fact!

 

You will not be taken seriously with one liners like this.  Not saying you're right or wrong, just that this is not the way to make a point.  Be specific.  What is it that you see that is wrong.  Under what conditions.  Is it a one off or a recurring problem?  

 

So what are the aspects of the DM that need reviewing? Details please - specific problems with proposed solutions.

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that's total and utter nonsense.

Next time [edited] dont continue to read that I could say other nonsense... :biggrin:

 

 

 

If you think it is true and it bothers you so, do something constructive to help instead of perpetuating the idea/myth of the Luftwhiner being alive and well

You have called us luftwhiner when we said that the 190 was wrong ...

Evidently the history of the 190 didnt teach anything!

I'm not complaining, I flew for years with a plane that had the wrong FM with good results ...

I'm just saying that are always the same people who respond to all on every topic saying that it is all right or that it is a network problem and calling troll or luftwhiner who wrote!

You have only certainties, all perfect!

We have doubts, we dont know if everything is perfect!

But I admit that I am sure of one thing, many of those who write dogmas and give judgments, often they didnt try the subject of the discussion!

I hope that at least they have some personal benefit to doing so.

 

 

S! [edited]

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Personal, offensive

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This is going the way of so many discussions.  It should be fact based.  Unemotional.  Name calling is third grade nonsense.  Childish and meaningless.

 

Present facts.  Debate facts.  Read opposing points of view.  Be willing to change your mind if evidence refutes your point of view.

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The only thing I learned is that a few people giving construcrive Input did A FUCKTON more than all you Luftwhiners combined ever. 

 

Complaining only builds up a Defensive Attitude in those adressed and is a sure fire way to delay actual change. 

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Luftwhiners and Wehraboos galore!

 

I don't want to say "git gud", but really... 99% of the outcome in areal combat is dictated by airmanship, teamwork, practice and experience, not what kind of plane is used. If you're expecting the same superiority that a handful of LW squadrons had over the VVS at some particular high points, you'd better get working real hard and real disciplined. If you expect a noticeable advantage just because of the plane you picked, you're barking up the wrong tree. Any advantage possessed by any plane can be easily countered and neutralized by anyone who knows what they're doing in a fighter from a contemporary generation.

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Next time [edited] Now dont continue to read that I could say other nonsense... :biggrin:

 

 

 

You have called us luftwhiner when we said that the 190 was wrong ...

Evidently the history of the 190 didnt teach anything!

I'm not complaining, I flew for years with a plane that had the wrong FM with good results ...

I'm just saying that are always the same people who respond to all on every topic saying that it is all right or that it is a network problem and calling troll or luftwhiner who wrote!

You have only certainties, all perfect!

We have doubts, we dont know if everything is perfect!

But I admit that I am sure of one thing, many of those who write dogmas and give judgments, often they didnt try the subject of the discussion!

I hope that at least they have some personal benefit to doing so.

 

 

S! [edited]

 

Let me make this quite clear, seeing this was directed at me, all people who complained about FW-190 were not called Luftwhiners only those who were consistently rude and pushing some bias conspiracy backed up by few facts and rhetoric and hyperbole

 

Some people always want to make this some sort of US against THEM fight, it is quite ridiculous, I think most are here from a love of aviation and aircraft

 

When we see a video posted saying that this is an example of super Stronk incorrect Russian aircraft DM when it is clearly an online netcode issue should we agree with this false reasoning?

 

or say something?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
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Hi all...

 

Let me be very clear about this.

 

I have asked in the past not to use certain terms when posting (luft...and fanb...) as it can be offensive to some and most of the time is used in a condencending/insulting way. Since its not the first time, but the forth I ask not to use those terms, and some members that I saw posting here Im sure readed my warnings before, from now on, I will consider the use of this terms as a personal insult, excessive rudeness or trying to make ridicule of the other members, applying the next rules:

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

 

23. The forum rules embody the will of 1C-777 Ltd., but may be enforced at the discretion of the moderators or other forum administrators and punishment may be softer or more serious than listed in the forum rules. In case of disagreement with the application of punishment, users can make an appeal with a personal message to the moderator/administrator of the forum.

 

Hopefully we can banish those terms from this community.

 

Haash

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6. It is forbidden to discuss the actions of moderators and administrators in any form on the forum. All questions are to be sent via "personal message" to the administrator/moderator.

:o:

US against THEM fight, it is quite ridiculous

I agree with you!

Personally I have never seen an exchange of views as a challenge, even if sometimes I think that there are prejudices about certain topics!
But in the end many write and few people play.

 

S! [edited] (forgot to write it yesterday)

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Do not edit moderated post

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I love those "How to Start Engine" Chat messages shortly afterwards followed by "Russians so biased, mony back pls"

 

Flying both pretty much 50/50 on DED Random Expert and I don't really see it. I had 109s survive the LaGG-3s 37mm and I died from 109s putting 2 or 3 MG rounds into my Il-2 and cutting off the rudder or elevator Controls. I have survived Massive Attacks in my 88 (just last week a Squadmate and Me shot down 4 MiG-3s before I stupidly dropped my 500kg Bombs while he was passing under me. He killed 3, I did one and we could still have gotten to friendly lines at least).

 

And I had the opposite happening as well. Skill and Tactical thinking often are all that matters. Arrogance and Lack of Awareness is what kills most. Just because your 109 has a somewhat better rate of Climb than a Yak, doesn't mean he won't be able to point his nose up for long enough to put some Pot Shots in and cripple you. Just because your Yak is a good Dogfighter doesn't make it a good idea to try and outturn a desperate Bf110.

If you are in a Situation where you have to rely on your ability to Tank damage, you have set yourself up to get killed.

Completely agree.

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Had 1 Pretty good La-5 Sortie. Killed 2 Bf109s but it took a combined 47 Hits to bring both down. So, are 23-24 Hits with 20mm Rounds not a bit OP?

 

Also, concerning my point about Awareness. 2 Bf109s in Formation with Lights on in Enemy Territory. They never even saw us coming. 

 

http://72ag-ded.ru/en/sortie/161472/?tour=7

http://72ag-ded.ru/en/sortie/log/161470/?tour=7

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

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