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historical guncameras vs BoS ( after hits effects, results )


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#1 heist

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 10:43

https://youtu.be/_aqJwHdMDK0?t=25  a little look - real smoke, vapors after hits.

 

https://youtu.be/2pGz0FGLMCc?t=597  (9:57)

 

 

what usualy had happens in reality: 

1. big smoke and fire - for a second. than it stops            (BoS now = when starts smokes then stays )

2. smokes and vapors are quite light.                                 (BoS now = very thick smoke and same kind like  vapors, only color change)

 

smokes, vapor modeling like is now in BoS, are close to real only in maybe 30%.

(70% guncameras are like you cann see above, 30% like now in BoS)

 

and also  in BoS are smokes actually all the same. doesnt matter how you hit.  thick big smokes, vapors after some hits.  (includet photos)

 

in CLOD (storm of war, cliffs of dover) is this modeled to close to perfection. (includet photos)

 

will be this soon maybe an point for  upgrade in BoS ?

thank you :)

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#2 1./JG54_Uwe

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 15:47

I agree, but I think they were going more for cinematic effect in which case they did very well.
Just wait for a mods in mode, I'm sure this will be addressed by the mod community.
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#3 heist

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 18:48

ou great:) when you sad sure :)


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#4 =TBAS=Sshadow14

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Posted 12 February 2017 - 19:04

where did you get all the historical info for the times it happened.

there is maybe guncam footage showing 1/100th of all air kills (so how do you come to conclusion that they often had 1 big flame then it stopped.)

Just because 3 guncams in a row show this does not mean anything.
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#5 Cpt_Branko

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 13:53

Well, a big part of the problem is that it's simply very hard to judge correct amount of smoke from old and not very high quality B&W footage, especially white-ish vapour is hard to distinguish in a shaky black and white video.

 

For instance, when I look at this (go to 5 minute mark and then again 5:50 minute mark, otherwise a lot of ground strafing), the vapours seem thicker and more visible than on black and white video and fires seem to persist at least until attacker zooms away:

youtube.com/watch?v=DpmGSvn1Vek

 

Or start and end (contains a FW-190 with wing blown off) of this:

youtube.com/watch?v=BoJodH8jszw

 

I mean, more footage would be needed to say how often would a machine start trailing black smoke, and again, it's hard to judge the correct amount of vapour. As for fires going out, I didn't see much of that - when you have a big flash in a moment it looks like an explosion to me, not a fire.


Edited by Cpt_Branko, 13 February 2017 - 13:55.

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#6 heist

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Posted 13 February 2017 - 21:36

you right guys. thx for your post.

 

so is truth, that i dont have cca 100, really good quality gun cameras videos.

maybe the another idea will be this: 

 

when we look this few guncameras videos, from historical point of view, the after effects from hits are not the same.  i know this cann be for developers very difficult, but will be very progressive to make really many (more)  models of this after effects.

 

why will be this very good? not only because to closer to historical reality, but also this is  most viewed part of game. (you dont look on trees, but you look to shot down:))

 

so the result : is possible to do atleast more smoke and vapor effects ? 


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#7 307_Tomcat

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Posted 14 February 2017 - 20:40

Ask developers in made for that thread :)
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#8 motoadve

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 01:23

Its exagerated in BOS and a bit of an immersion killer, one of my first posts was about this.

 

Many people like it that way, doesnt look realistic to me.

 

Hope mods will change it.

 

Cliffs of Dover smoke looks a lot closer to what we can see in real life gun cameras.


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#9 JAGER_Batz

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Posted 15 February 2017 - 14:06

I agree that it should be reviewed yes this issue of smoke, this amount of smoke leaves the aircraft is abnormal ....


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#10 Dakpilot

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 13:09

In certain instances the smoke can be very accurate/realistic,I  the problem in BoS is that with every instance we always get the 'max' effect, if there were several smoke versions toned down in scale depending on damage and or random variation things would be greatly improved immersion wise.

 

How much extra CPU resource and coding work that would be needed is hard to judge/imagine

 

Cheers Dakpilot


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#11 Sokol1

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 13:23

In the way that is follow the formula of modern and popular games (Battlefields, Call of Duty, etc) is based on "Hollywood realism" - big is better, not RL, and so make success with gamers.  :)

 

I like of what CloD tried, but the mod'ers are trying "amplify" original effects, is some case with dubious results:

 

https://s16.postimg..../Clo_D_hits.jpg

 

This big hit is from G.50 machine guns (.50) - if you look at original game this (strange, looks more a fireworks) effect exist, but is several times smaller.

 

So, they are trying follow the same success formula... ?  :huh:


Edited by Sokol1, 16 February 2017 - 13:29.

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... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#12 motoadve

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Posted 16 February 2017 - 15:23

In certain instances the smoke can be very accurate/realistic,I  the problem in BoS is that with every instance we always get the 'max' effect, if there were several smoke versions toned down in scale depending on damage and or random variation things would be greatly improved immersion wise.

 

How much extra CPU resource and coding work that would be needed is hard to judge/imagine

 

Cheers Dakpilot

You nailed Dakpilot, we always get the max effect.(kills immersion) specially when engine and fuel tanks are hit you see a big trail of black smoke in the middle with 2 big trails of white smoke on each side.

Its waay too much.


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#13 heist

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 22:13

so may be, when it will be too much for some hardware , then doing an option in graphic mode: cinematic effects / realistic effects


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#14 Space_Ghost

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 20:55

I think that Cliffs does vapor and oil leaks more convincingly.

 

BOS has better volumetric smoke.


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#15 Kling

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 23:16

I was the one redoing most of the smoke effects for aircraft in TF4.312.
My aim was to make the effects look a bit like the effects from the movie battle of britain.

We have some revised effects for the next patch :)

Many effects in vanilla Clod were 2d as they eat a lot less FPS. It looked crap so I redid them int 3d with the help of some others in the team. One guy has made a great job with smoke effects (ground based) for the next patch while I have further tweaked the existing effects.

Computers are much much faster today than when the game was released in 2011 and can handle a lot more better effects. The limit will be the graphics engine, not our computers. Maybe DX11 will further increase limit :)

I personally like to be rather conservative with smoke and explosions as they otherwise tend to look to "Hollywoody".

As for the picture of the spitfire anove being hit by a 50cal. That effect is not something TF has introduced. As far as I know it has something to do with a certain part/hitbox being hit. Also exists on other aircraft but is very very rare. Not sure why the effect looks like that but it is not done by TF! ;)
Just to clear that up!
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#16 Sokol1

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 23:31

In the way that is follow the formula of modern and popular games (Battlefields, Call of Duty, etc) is based on "Hollywood realism" - big is better, not RL, and so make success with gamers.  :)

 

I was the one redoing most of the smoke effects for aircraft in TF4.312.
My aim was to make the effects look a bit like the effects from the movie battle of britain.

 

Like I say: "Hollywood" wins.  :lol:

 

At least 'B of B' movie is from pre-CGI era, fortunately or we will risk end with "Red Tails" like effects.  :rolleyes:

 

Please, I am not criticizing your work, is just about the majority of games preference in visuals.


Edited by Sokol1, 24 February 2017 - 00:04.

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... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#17 motoadve

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 00:38

I dont agree, dont like Holywood effects, seems more arcade all that exagerated amount of smoke.


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#18 Kling

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 00:55

Like I say: "Hollywood" wins. :lol:

At least 'B of B' movie is from pre-CGI era, fortunately or we will risk end with "Red Tails" like effects. :rolleyes:

Please, I am not criticizing your work, is just about the majority of games preference in visuals.

Yes as an pre CGI era movie, the smoke effects are real. If the colors are real, who can tell. What we do know is that leaking glycol is white with a blueish tint, leaking fuel is grey/transparent, but mostly visble at high alt and cold air. Burning oil is dark almost black. Too thick smoke does not look very realistic in my opinion ;)

Edited by Kling, 24 February 2017 - 00:56.

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#19 heist

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 15:26

Kling  wow. thx for your post.

 

Many effects in vanilla Clod were 2d as they eat a lot less FPS  ------- thats maybe a problem,because  it should work for everyone, not only for guys with top hardwares.

but this cann be easy solved in graphic option. (switch off real smokes)  or  not? 

 

and i thing the realistic is allways better than an hollywood. because real brings many times better effects like in hollywood:)))

 

BoS is looking so good, so realistic, that when sudenly  a smoke effect apears , it wakes me up from this reality. 

 

Will be very nice, with  in next updates, more smokes effects..much more. Now is not bad, only they are very few and repeated.


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#20 Sokol1

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 16:25

 Too thick smoke does not look very realistic in my opinion ;)

 

That's problem in BoS, their smokes look too "CGI" for me.  :(


Edited by Sokol1, 26 February 2017 - 16:25.

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... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#21 heist

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 20:22

new video. last days of war. shooting on german pilot babiees 

 

https://youtu.be/RBqAmy34DTo


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