Game version 2.007 discussion: Bf 110 G-2, AI airplanes physics optimization

[Scojo]

I feel guilty even asking this but is there any timeline for a hotfix on the one-hit-no-guns issue the 110 G-2 currently suffers from?

 

I thought I could manage at first until losing a piece of my tailplane broke all my guns.

In the thread for this bug, someone said it's been reported to the devs, but that's all we know right now.

 

I think you may get better feedback for your question there, especially since posts here can get buried

[senseispcc]

Yea, the nightfighter weighted almost 1.5 tons more than the dayfighter version. The Bk37 weights a fraction of that (~300kg) which is compensated a bit by the fact that the 20mm cannons and their ammunition are removed at the same time.

 

Weight is not the only factor but the bulk of the gun and the kick of the recoil and most important of all it was never used in this function even against the heavy western front bombers.

​Some planes did have heavier guns but their flying possibilities where so poor that they lost all/most defensive or offensive air combat possibilities.

It is the same as the fuel tanks during WW2! Many but not all planes lost speed with additional fuel tanks and only the Tempest could dogfight with them. So do not try to dogfight with fuel tanks?!

Edited February 3, 2017 by senseispcc

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I would also say to test it at the US bomber altitudes of 8000/9000m, I bet up there the performance decrease will be much severe.

Edited February 3, 2017 by SuperEtendard

[Finkeren]

Weight is not the only factor but the bulk of the gun and the kick of the recoil and most important of all it was never used in this function even against the heavy western front bombers.

 

 

This I don't see as an argument at all. The devs can not go out of their way to make a weapon useless in a certain role, just because it wasn't used like that historically. 

 

The performance penalty for flying with the Bk 37 might well be too small. Personally I don't think it looks that bad. The weight gain is not huge, when you account for the MG 151s being removed, the gondola is fairly well shaped and not too deep and sits will with relation to the CG. It certainly can be no worse than flying around with a full drop tank.

 

In any case: The very fact, that the 110 was never historically used as a fighter in that configuration is not by itself an argument for making it useless as a fighter in said configuration.

[Juri_JS]

Bf-110G equipped with the BK 3,7 were used by ZG 76 against American bombers. I've seen photos of ZG 76 Bf-110s carrying the BK 3,7 together with Wfr.Gr.21 rockets, so the weight was obviously not a problem.

 

These heavily armed Bf-110s were used as Pulkzerstörer (formation destroyers) and attacked enemy bomber groups from long range with rockets and large caliber guns to break up their formations, so single bombers could be later attacked with less risk.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Juri_JS

[HighStick]

Thank you all very much for the new FW190 fm. It handles much more like a fighter now!

Great update!

[216th_Peterla]

Hi,

There is a minor glich with the 110 skins that have noseart when you select the BK37 loadout. The deleted fwd canons cover is not painted with the noseart color but with the standard skin one(it only affects three skins or so). Also the skin with the yellow V mark under the LH wing has the top mark of the V on the RH wing.

As previously said, excellent skins by the way.

Regards

Edited February 4, 2017 by 216th_Peterla

[Thad]

Salutations and thanks for a great update!

 

I especially like the inclusion of the new 'tank missions'. That aspect of IL2 needed a little love. While there are not any new driveable tanks, the missions are appreciated.

[Jaws2002]

There is a third gold bar under my profile pic now, representing BOK.

 

It wasn't there until this update.

 

Outstanding work gentlemen.

 

 

Same here. 

 

Just installed, took the 190 for two sorties and ran to the store.

 

Great work guys! You just sold a copy of BOK.

 

BTW. the new official skins are awesome.

 

Thank you. 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Jaws2002

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

This heavily armed Bf 110 variant was trialed both for gound attack duties on the Eastern Front and in daylight battles against USAAF bombing raids without enjoying any major success in either role! Evaluation involving several aircraft was carried by the Versuchskommando für Panzerkämpfung (anti-tank trials unit) at Rechlin and moving to Russia for field evaluation in April 1943. The evaluation was apparently not favourable for this version and it was then turned over to Erprobungskommando 25 for evaluation against USAAF bombers. The top speed was found to be only slightly higher than that of the B-17s and B-24s and lateral stability was poor which impared the aiming. A total of 43 G-3 and 107 G-2 airframes were scheduled for modification but only a handful have been confirmed as being accepted by ZG 76 early in 1944. ("Messerschmitt Bf 110", Ron Mackay, Crowood, Page 121) With the advent of the USAAF long-range fighter escort in 1944 this weapons combination became obsolete over night as the Bf 110s now became the hunted rather than the hunter. A number of Bf 110s were equipped as here with a Flak 18 gun and W.Gr. mortars under the wings!

 

Other references maintain that the Bf 110 with 37mm cannon was tested at the E-Stelle Tarnevitz;

 

".....This weapon was derived from the old Rheinmetall-Borsig Flak 18 gun and was relatively simple to install beneath the Ju 87 wings. The test-bed aircraft was correspondingly modified in Tarnewitz and successfully tested under operational conditions. The weapon showed such good results that it lead to the first Bf 110 equipped with a single 37mm cannon being made ready in autumn 1942 and it was reckoned that this large-calibre weapon could also be employed against enemy bomber formations."

 

Ref. source: German Secret Flight Test Centres to 1945, H.Beauvais et al, Midland, page 174

 

http://falkeeins.blogspot.cl/2010/01/bf-110-g-with-37mm-flak-18-cannon.html

[Irgendjemand]

Just to let you know devs: Some of my friends that tried the reworked FW FM actually finally consider buying BOK. They held back because of how inacceptable it was.
Very good work. Its really fun to fly now and finally can do more but just run away while not becoming an "uberplane".

Edited February 7, 2017 by Irgendjemand

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Just to let you know devs: Some of my friends that tried the reworked FW FM actually finally consider buying BOK. They held back because of how inacceptable it was.

Very good work. Its really fun to fly now and finally can do more but just run away while not becoming an "uberplane".

 

I too am aware of a couple of copies that sold due to recent updates and dev diaries.

[II./JG1_Kadin]

I am very impressed with the AI resource management of 2.007. Same exact setup on a dedicated server that would flip the tic delay of 7 when an additional single flight (four planes) was triggered to jump to 16 and then a second flight push it over 24, now it momentarily jumps to 15 and then drops below 10. And I can do this for 3 flights (12 planes) in a row!! A very impressive departure from previous version. Thank you.

[Field-Ops]

I had already bought BoK before the Fw update but that didnt stop me from putting my money in other parts of the project. Hello Yak1b and Ju52.

[Guest deleted@50488]

For me, it became my only WW2, and actually - Combat Flight - simulator, after a few years between DCS and IL2.

 

As much as I can like the potential in the other combat sims I tried, the feel provided by IL.2 Battle of ... is unique to me, also among all flight simulators I use.

 

I do look forward for the announced update to some of the flight dynamics features, namely the still present problems with roll-yaw coupling.

 

I look forward for features like fuel management to be implemented in future versions, after BoK, but for the time being, in terms of flight dynamics, damage modeling, immersion, graphic s and performance in my system, nothing comes even close to IL.2 !

Edited February 8, 2017 by jcomm

[Zoltann]

Hi fooks,

 

A bit late to the party, nevertheless thanks DEVs for an amazing update!

 

Very happy to have backed you up from the dark beginnings to the everlighter present

 

 

Just love the concept with continuous awsome improvements in which also the "older BoS" gets updated in all ways and is just as good as the latest new BoX series.

 

Good times...

[Asgar]

I wonder if we'll get a hotfix soon for the 110 G-2 damage issue. she's kinda useless right now.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I wonder if we'll get a hotfix soon for the 110 G-2 damage issue. she's kinda useless right now.

 

By this point, I think it'll come through with the next patch.

[Scojo]

I wonder if we'll get a hotfix soon for the 110 G-2 damage issue. she's kinda useless right now.

Just curious, where do you fly the G-2? Multiplayer servers don't have it yet, do they? and PWCG doesn't either so I won't be playing it much in the near future, so I haven't been bothered by the bugs too much.

 

I do still hope they get fixed though. At least before servers start providing them

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Just curious, where do you fly the G-2? Multiplayer servers don't have it yet, do they? and PWCG doesn't either so I won't be playing it much in the near future, so I haven't been bothered by the bugs too much.

 

I do still hope they get fixed though. At least before servers start providing them

 

I flew 4-5 sorties in the G-2 on the FVP server this weekend.

 

There are some gamey features like GPS on the server but it's otherwise a boatload of fun.

Edited February 9, 2017 by 4./JG52_Space_Ghost

[JtD]

A bit late to the party, but I did not have a chance to check out the new version prior to this weekend. My focus, surprise, was on the new flight model of the Fw190.

 

In my opinion, it is a huge improvement. Both in terms of playability, and realism. While the elevator is somewhat less responsive than I'd expect, in particular at high speed, the basic characteristics feel right. Considering that effective controls in real life mostly translate as over-sensitive in game, I think the devs have found a very good compromise. Finally, I'm able to fly a hammerhead or slowly pull the aircraft over the top of a loop without ending up in a flat spin half the time.

Performance was also slightly improved, most noticeable in the turn time given by the devs, it decreased from 24.7 to 23.0 at sea level. This is in line with other recent flight model changes, which imho are more realistic. This can also be felt in game, allowing the Fw190 to push a bounce a little harder, without instantly getting into trouble.

 

There still are issues with the plane, in particular the post stall behaviour, but this appears to be a global thing. Additionally, it's mostly my personal opinion and not hard data here, given that hard data is hard to find.

 

All in all, I liked the new flight model enough to actually start playing the game, something I haven't done in ages. However, I noticed it keeps crashing quite frequently now, most likely due to my outdated drivers being incapable of dealing with the new DX. Still, a big thank you to the developers for this patch in general, but particularly for the dialogue with the community that eventually allowed the BoS Fw190 to live up to its real life reputation. Great job!

[303_Kwiatek]

Actual only problem with Fw190 implementation in these sim is not these plane performance but rather other planes performance ( lack of controls freez at high speeds, simplifacted overheat problems which cause overperformance etc).

[Venturi]

I await P40 fixes...

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

As a Wulf driver, I hold out hope for you Venturi.

[LLv24_Zami]

Guys, great news concerning AI ganging up on a player. Han posted this to the questions thread: EDIT: AI ganging on player confirmen in my own test. F... too often I got to re-check things by myself   To be fixed in 2.008. Thank you for rising this issue again.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/?p=441149

 

 

[Trooper117]

Brilliant news on the AI fix... that will be one in the eye for certain forum members who were insisting there was nothing wrong...

[Bando]

Zami: You just made my freaking day!!!

Thanks!!!!

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Brilliant news on the AI fix... that will be one in the eye for certain forum members who were insisting there was nothing wrong...

 

Sadly, there will be no admittance or concession to the point.

 

Nonetheless, those of us playing SP, doing the testing and putting in the time knew that the issue was there.

[LukeFF]

Brilliant news on the AI fix... that will be one in the eye for certain forum members who were insisting there was nothing wrong...

Let's just be glad it's being fixed instead of rubbing it in with the "I told you so" sort of comments.

[Danziger]

They told you so. Luke.

 

I didn't really see anything wrong either but, if it was proven then who am I to argue. My problem was always with my wingmen taking off a leaving me to fight all of the AI.

[Trooper117]

Not 'rubbing anything in'.... it needed to be said. You may not have seen how people were being treated when they tried to highlight the issue.

[Bando]

Not 'rubbing anything in'.... it needed to be said. You may not have seen how people were being treated when they tried to highlight the issue.

Indeed they were. I did see it and was forcing myself not to react to those (imho) morons.

Glad the issue will get solved.

[Thad]

As a Wulf driver, I hold out hope for you Venturi.

LOL

[Livai]

Let's just be glad it's being fixed instead of rubbing it in with the "I told you so" sort of comments.

 

Are the swimming towns ( screenshots below ) something to rubbing it in with the "I told you so" sort of comments to highlight the issue?

[No601_Swallow]

Autumn floods. Awesome realism!

[Livai]

Autumn floods. Awesome realism!

 

Summer, Autumn floods and winter why the houses stay all the time above the water and ice . This is the awesome all-weather realism all the time the houses stay above the water and ice even if this map had the spring season nothing will change. The incorrect display will remain all the time.

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by Superghostboy

[Jade_Monkey]

How about you report it in the bugs section with details of the location instead?

[LukeFF]

Are the swimming towns ( screenshots below ) something to rubbing it in with the "I told you so" sort of comments to highlight the issue?

 

 

Summer, Autumn floods and winter why the houses stay all the time above the water and ice . This is the awesome all-weather realism all the time the houses stay above the water and ice even if this map had the spring season nothing will change. The incorrect display will remain all the time.

 

And what in the world does this have to do with fixing an issue with the AI? Report the issue in the appropriate forum instead of sidetracking this particular discussion. 

[hames123]

In 10 years time, maybe technology will advance to the point when we can have the air war over Germany. Of course, Mulitiplayer will likely only use a tiny section of the map, and have allied airspawns, but that's ok. In the meantime, can one of the Pacific battles have the RAF and RAAF Beufighter? It saw loads of service in the Far East, and I can just imagine it shooting up a mule train or convoy of ships.

[hames123]

For the air war over Germany, I have a plane set.

 

Allies:Mosquito, Mustang, Lancaster, B-17, B-24.

Germans:Bf 109K, FW 190A8R8, Me410, Ju88 and Me262.

 

However, nearly every multiplayer battle would involve the allies spawning to the West of Berlin/Muinch/Hamburg and bombing factories spread across the map, while being attacked by massive numbers of 262s flown by luftwhiners. Fortunately, if they have to take off, and the allies airstart 5km from the city, we will probably bomb a few factories before they catch us. And there will always be those who just bomb the city for no reason, despite them not getting any kills because there are no military targets in the buildings there. The Allied team would likely become Mosquitos rushing to take out the flak towers, and 30 mustangs looking for Germans, and a few bomber pilots bombing objectives(actually, if the airspawn is set high enough, and the flak is heavy enough(hundreds of guns), it might cause more player to try bombing. However, the allies will have to despawn at the airspawn which the lufties may not like.