horrific stuttering makes multiplayer impossible since dx11 patch [it's a bug - only devs can fix]

[[BSS-214]commiekiller18]

 

 

any attempts to lessen the issue through settings seems to fall victim to the randomness of the issue - at times, you'd think some particular change made it smooth, while in reality you just "got lucky"

 

LOL I've felt this several times. Change this or that, crank everything down low and thinking ya I fixed it. But nope. Its sometimes random when just flying around, but for me its almost always when in proximity of another plane in MP. And I cant stress enough that it isn't lag, The planes arnt jumping around desyncing its just terrible unplayable frame drops and stutters.

 

I hope the devs are looking into this, I cant play MP at the moment and that's what I like most about the sim. But in SP all seems fine.

 

Buzzard

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Also seeing the same issue. Framerate drops to what feels like single digits, yet ingame fps counter stays pegged at my vsync setting (60fps).

 

Only affected in multiplayer. Intermittent issue.

[TheElf]

Also seeing this, but seems to be limited to Wings of Liberty server.  GPU and Fraps repoting 70+ FPS so slow downs don't seem to be graphic load related.

 

My Theory is it is a memory problem combined with some latency factors and AI object triggering.  My worst slow downs seem to occur when I am over Land units (i.e. targets; Artillery, Def positions, Airfields, tank columns).  Very similar symptoms from when I was designing missions for Eagle's Nest and was stress testing large ground units and complex triggers.

 

Experience has been similar to Pand's, started seeing the issue after the Hotfix was pushed, except it seems my rig can power through the slow downs.  But play-ability is definitely an issue for me considering the money I've invested in my Rig to achieve smooth frames at high detail settings.  Regressed from Ultra to High Setting to see if it helped, and it did not.  Prior to the Hotfix, I hadn't noticed any issues and was seeing 110-120 fps.

 

I am no longer playing this game...

 

System Specs:

Win 7

AMD-8350 Vishera Black edition 4.2 Ghz

16GB RAM

Nvidia GTX 970

Asus ROG Swift Monitor @ 144hz w/ G-Sync

[Jeast]

Same for me. Horrible stuttering while in the vicinity of other planes. All since the last patch. Fps are fine, it feels like some kind of lag.

[19//Moach]

it's definitely not hardware-caused lag -- on a close inspection, it seems the GPU has a lower workload during such times than otherwise

 

the unremitting GPU BUS surge that ensues during these is indicative of a bug which causes repeated software interruptions of normal GPU operation - it's not the graphics that are slow, it's the game not letting the GPU do it's job

 

oddly, a few things have emerged that MAY have something to do with it, as occasionally a lag-bog was cleared (and/or started) by these actions:

 

 

- altering noise filter settings in the input devices menu 

 

this starts reliably reproduced stutters that last for a few seconds, also, has occasionally appeared to have stopped some previously started and so far unrelenting surges, after this same delay - seems it forced a reset of something)

 

 

- hitting ctrl+alt+delete, then escape to return to the game (seems to have an effect as often as not, possibly coincidence/placebo)

 

doing so also seems to force a reset-like process that upon a few seconds, clears out the lag -- though on random occasion, works less often than not

 

 

- restarting the game during a stutter-bout, (most often one brought by respawning)  then returning to the same server, and the same spawn conditions seems to clear off the issue on some 60~75% of cases

 

- un-spawning then spawning in again has seemed to work in the same way as a full restart, but much less reliably (about only 20% of the times attempted, better odds if new spawn is at a different airfield and/or different airplane) -- very possibly this is merely circumstantial though, given the dominating margin of error in noted cases

 

 

tl/dr -- basically, I've tried everything - it's extremely unlikely that this has anything to do with hardware specs or drivers and settings -- I very well believe all players experience this issue, with symptoms heightened or lessened by those same factors

Edited January 9, 2017 by 19.GIAP//Moach

[[TWB]Pand]

I'd love to hear the plans from the devs regarding next steps, and/or target dates for resolution.

[Remontti]

No solutions yet?

 

I watched my SweetFX FPS counter while I was flying on the Wings of Liberty server. I was getting stutters when I flew over Volga north of Stalingrad and looked towards the city. If I looked in other directions it was smooth, but every time I looked south to Stalingrad I got stutters.The FPS didn't drop when I got these stutters. I recorded the flight and I didn't see any planes in that direction either.

 

Hopefully they fix this soon along with problem that G-sync isn't working anymore in full screen.

[19//Moach]

as far as we know - there's no reliable solutions yet, or any word about it from devs (probably still scratching their heads same as we are) - the damn thing remains a mystery

 

restarting the game in general seems the most reliable way to work around bad spells, particularly those which follow second-time spawns

 

going in/out of the basic settings and input devices menus while ingame also seems to affect the issue - either by starting lag spells, or at times by seemingly defeating them -- those could've been coincidence, though it was seemingly "effective" on multiple times, with a correlation observed in about 50% of attempts to use these methods (and over 70% for starting stutter periods)

 

 

there's been some weird input oddities that hint at a buffer-related issue: 

 

on a second time spawn, when clear of any stutters, hitting the esc key in flight has been observed to produce a multitude of rapid uncommanded mouse/key events, which can be noticed as the highlighted entries on the escape dialog flicker as if one was randomly tapping the arrow keys or twitching the mouse around very fast 

 

you can hear a quick succession of click/hover sound effects being played in the one or two seconds during which it does this 

 

there's little to confirm any relation between this and the stutters - however, there is some suggestion of this possibility in that either will only happen in multiplayer, predominantly right after respawning, and in that, given its purpose, the "input devices" menu has a more-often-than-not connection with the onset/defeat of the problem

 

 

a small drop in FPS has been also observed while firing rockets or in events where big explosions with multiple particles cover a large section of the screen - this is most probably not connected to the stutters, and simply due to the announced removal of some optimizations due to problems with some hardware (esp. AMD) -- this kind of performance drop is perfectly normal, however, and it is important not to mistake this for the stutterbug symptoms

 

effect-related fps drops (rendering overload) will consistently last ONLY for the time in which the effect is visible on screen - and scale in a generally linear relation to the density of the effect and the number of pixels covered by the "fireworks" and their adjacent bits

 

this is easily distinguished from the stutters, as the latter will start/stop regardless of what is being rendered, and last for a seemingly arbitrary period - during which they afflict with greatly varied severity, with no obvious relation to any situational factor (besides those mentioned earlier)

 

 

 

it is absolutely urgent that this be addressed in a hotfix - it is degrading multiplayer usability to the point of becoming a game breaking factor - in many cases, it became severe enough for myself not being able to play at all, and I was forced to quit and wait for better luck at a later time.  according to others, I am not the only one who's has had this happen (nor are we few) with some regularity after patch 2.006 was installed

Edited January 17, 2017 by 19.GIAP//Moach

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Best performance fix for Nvidia Users..

DO NOT install geforce experience.
DO NOT use the settings its sets.
DO NOT let it alter and destroy your game files.

 

[19//Moach]

Best performance fix for Nvidia Users..

 

DO NOT install geforce experience.

DO NOT use the settings its sets.

DO NOT let it alter and destroy your game files.

 

 

 

while true and definitely a worthy recommendation - this has no verified impact whatsoever on the multiplayer stutter plague

 

 

this does not in any way lessen the need for this issue being fixed - it must be noted first and foremost, the relevance of hardware specs, settings and drivers (or any such user-side system concerns) is exclusively symptomatic -- the stutters are not caused by these factors, but brought about by software issues which are particular to multiplayer - only the resulting severity of their onset is known to be affected by system configuration.

 

it is most likely that ALL users suffer from varying degrees of this same problem

 

 

much confusion is created by the superficially graphics-like nature of the apparent problem -- on closer scrutiny, it is almost certainly guaranteed (99% sure) that this has nothing to do with any of the otherwise common general causes of low performance issues.

 

these stutters are NOT caused by your hardware, driver, or settings

 

 

any performance loss that may be isolated as the fault if the running system will (unlike this) be consistently present throughout the game, and will vary more or less uniformly, in a way that similar scenarios will generate proportionally similar results

 

 

the stutters discussed here are evidently not the case, as they can appear in vastly different degrees even upon identical situations (from a user's perspective, without access to debug information) 

 

 

 

i.e. if the game runs a complex scene at 60fps, and a less complex one at 3, then at 10, and moments after (without moving the plane) resumes 60, and does so at ANY graphics settings, and only suffers this while online, it absolutely CANNOT be the fault of the user's system specs and configuration

[150GCT_Veltro]

What about FFB? I was testing yesterday in Berloga, and without FFB it was better, smooth.

 

 

[EAF_51_FOX]

What about FFB? I was testing yesterday in Berloga, and without FFB it was better, smooth.

 

Yes Veltro, I can confirm you that FFB enabled (like me with MSFF2 user) and Track-ir/Opentrack give you visual game annoying and continuos  studdering that render the game almos unplayable for nausea feeling. If you disable FFB option game goes smooth. But I think FFB users are not so minimum folks here, so I wish 1c team can look at fix this annoying bug. May be a conflict between tracking system and FFB in game engine after 2.06 patch.

[ema33ig]

Bump and Check this!

 

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26746-trackir-and-ffb-working-together-cause-terrible-stuttering/

[216th_Jordan]

Did you try to limit your fpslimiter to 60hz? (I don't know if it works for monitors with more hz - if you got one try setting your fps limiter to your hz number) It definitely helped me.

[EAF_51_FOX]

Did you try to limit your fpslimiter to 60hz? (I don't know if it works for monitors with more hz - if you got one try setting your fps limiter to your hz number) It definitely helped me.

 

Yes, and this didn't solve the problem at all. It is definitely a problem with Dx 11 and game, more evident if you use FFB Joystick combined with track IR or opentrack. Is a problem coming with 2.06 patch. Not gamer's hardware/software.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Yes, and this didn't solve the problem at all. It is definitely a problem with Dx 11 and game, more evident if you use FFB Joystick combined with track IR or opentrack. Is a problem coming with 2.06 patch. Not gamer's hardware/software.

 

Ironically, you sort of stated that it is a hardware/software integration issue.

 

So it's an issue with FFB hardware (potentially drivers) and headtracking software..?

[EAF_51_FOX]

Ironically, you sort of stated that it is a hardware/software integration issue.

 

So it's an issue with FFB hardware (potentially drivers) and headtracking software..?

No dear Space_Ghost, it is a problem of the last patch 2.06 compatibility with hardware/software of many people like me that use FFB Joystick and trackIr.

..And thank you to ever have no other time that troll with useless polemic this forum.pathetic. cheers.

Edited January 18, 2017 by EAF_51_FOX

[19//Moach]

the FFB issue has been reported separately - as it is another matter not related (as far as we know) to this 

 

the effects of both can possibly combine, and make you a nice brew of special double-bad stutters -- but that's irrelevant, as without FFB I have encountered the stutters as detailed in this thread - and by all evidence we have so far it is NOT dependant on anything other than the game itself (and perhaps planetary alignment and proximity to dragons)
 

 

please do not confuse this already complex issue with similar issues - it is trouble enough the way it is, and it's taken us two pages to work out a consensus that this isn't the "regular fps issues" so casually dismissed as the fault of user hardware and such

 

this is a software bug - it manifests as stutters (of intensity loosely affected (if at all) by specs, but predominantly random) in multiplayer sessions exclusively -- there have been no reports of cases where user-controlled variables have had any effect beyond placebo and coincidence

 

 

this thread is no longer a call for users to help with suggestions of how to improve/fix the stutters -- instead, it has become a bug report,  and the primary goal is to compile all accounts in a way that is helpful for devs to pinpoint and eliminate the source

 

accounts of cases where it starts/stops and their severity with details about the situational context might help, but only as long as those are presented without any assumption as to a possible connection between apparent cause and effect  -- we've been there before - the stutters are wily and cunning, they will play with your mind - and you'll think you're seeing patterns.... that way lies madness

 

"try and see if it helps" type suggestions are thus off topic - let us know if a user-end method to overcome the problem reliably is ever found... but I've been trying that since the initial 2.006 patch - and there has been nothing to suggest we have any means of working around this or even lessening the symptoms by any amount

 

all seems to indicate, this will ONLY be cured by a new patch

Edited January 18, 2017 by 19.GIAP//Moach

[ACG_Invictus]

Very interested in hearing what the developers are doing to address this problem. 

 

To be clear....I only play this game for the online component.  Once that is gone, so is my interest and motivation for further financial investment.

 

The problem exists.  It's real.  It is actively discussed and acknowledged by respected members of the community.  What's missing is acknowledgement and information from the developers. This is clearly not just a graphics issue, though I slightly disagree with Moach as some of the changes I've made to my settings have reduced the problem to a degree for me (note the qualifier). This said, it is still a serious problem when more than three planes are within render range.  This was never an issue prior to the Dx11 upgrade.  I should add my CPU, GPU and RAM are all significantly above minimum specs.

 

At this point, the developers need to at least acknowledge the problem exists and that it's on their list of things to investigate.  I'd be fine with that.  Ignoring or not acknowledging the problem after nearly a month is unhelpful. 

 

Thanks.

[19//Moach]

 I slightly disagree with Moach as some of the changes I've made to my settings have reduced the problem to a degree for me (note the qualifier). 

 

 

 

 

actually, I never claimed setting changes would not have ANY effect - I did state that they will have only a superficial effect upon the symptoms being experienced - albeit not reliably... 

 

the problem seems to manifest itself in "creative ways" across different systems, yet the fundamental aspects of it are present for all players -- while for some the symptoms can be reduced with varying degrees of success, for others like myself the problem is nevertheless almost entirely impairing, and only sheer dumb luck has thus far proven "effective" as a "workaround"

 

curiously for me, the amount of planes within render distance has no clear connection with the stutters - however, the moments when planes enter/leave this range has been consistently verified to match the onset/reprieve of a stutter-attack (some 70% of cases)

 

it seems as though some planes, by no obvious reason, seem to be "cursed" - and whenever one is near them (regardless of on/off screen), or is unlucky enough to BE it,  one will suffer -- I suspect the cases where I was the "stutter bearer" myself have been the ones I could relieve by restarting the game, or going in and out of menus (or even bailing out, in an odd few times) as mentioned earlier  

 

there's little ways to confirm the "curse bearer" hypothesis on the user end, but statistically it seems there's a percentage correlation of cases where user action had appeared to have a satisfactory effect, and cases in which there were reasons (nobody else around, no planes entering/leaving) to suspect that I was "it"

 

 

 

 

it would go a long way to get a note from the devs of how they acknowledge this -- it is (as far as I can tell) the single greatest problem with the game, as many players are almost completely unable to play it - this should be given a very high priority, and ideally addressed in a hotfix (it's much too disruptive an issue to wait for a scheduled patch)

 

I can only assume devs are aware of it - but as Invictus said, a quick "we're on it" type remark would be tremendously appreciated

Edited January 18, 2017 by 19.GIAP//Moach

[Urra]

I get these stutters too in multiplayer with my GTX 1080 / i7 6700k (4,5GHz). With just couple planes the stutters mostly happen when looking around. When there are many planes around I get constant stutters and it is unplayable. Single player seems to be still ok. Before the patch everything was super smooth.

 

Rem,

You have a much better system than I do, I was testing SLI settings and found a strange correlation. Its a simple quick test and there is 1% chance it may do some good for you. Results are not guaranteed as seen on TV commercials, as it seems to be different for many.

I basically found that having 10 Lod terrain lines instead of 5 that are used as standard smooths things out for me. Why? Don't know.

See This thread for details. The file does not exist in the default installation and would need to be added correctly.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26732-sli-working/?p=433555

 

Edit:problems encountered in MP. Not using this anymore.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Smok

[19//Moach]

I was under the impression that tweak procedure for terrain had been made obsolete by a patch some time ago... 

 

I find it quite unlikely this could have anything to do with the stutter problem - I reckon any method by which one gains/loses performance in general will ultimately add up and make for some difference during stutter bouts - however, it also would make that difference during non-stutter periods, also in single player, or anytime except when the problem itself happens to bedevil you...

 

 

this would address perhaps a (very) small part of the symptoms - but sadly, this is not unlike putting a band-aid on someone dying of the black plague... it'll help a little bit - maybe... 

 

 

worth a shot anyways - whatever don't kill ya - right?

 

 

keep in mind, given the almost completely random nature of the stutterings, it can only be said whether or not this had any effect after the game has ran for several sessions without any sign of the problem (I once went two days without seeing it - even thought it was gone - until it returned)

Edited January 18, 2017 by 19.GIAP//Moach

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

have you lot tried a very low fps cap to see if the system is stuggling with bottleneck somewhere?

Try this
Lock frames with Nvidia inspector to 25fps (while low 25fps (more than a dvd @ 23fps pal 18 fps ntsc) is still smooth and STUTTER free
if you get zero stutters and jerking at 25 fps locked then your systems are bottle necking with extra frames causing stutters.

FSX was like this.
Much smoother locked to 30fps stutter free
Than left unlocked where it would jump from 28fps to 45fps then stutter when the high frames bottlenecked the cpu
 

Edited January 19, 2017 by =r4t=Sshadow14

[Dakpilot]

 

 

I can only assume devs are aware of it - but as Invictus said, a quick "we're on it" type remark would be tremendously appreciated

 

 

Has anyone submitted a proper format bug report in the relevant stickied section?

 

I did not look hard, but saw nothing in 'Multiplayer' or 'Installation and Performance'

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

No dear Space_Ghost, it is a problem of the last patch 2.06 compatibility with hardware/software of many people like me that use FFB Joystick and trackIr.

..And thank you to ever have no other time that troll with useless polemic this forum.pathetic. cheers.

 

Uhhh... What..? 

[Remontti]

Last two nights have been much smoother since I turned SSAO off. Still too early to say if I was just lucky getting smooth gameplay. With SSAO off I get 95 fps (fps limiter set 95, same as my refresh rate). With SSAO on I have 85 fps, which should be smooth in terms of fps. 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

What monitor has a 95hz refresh rate...

Do you have a link?
sound like an interesting screen.

[SYN_Mike77]

Let's remember that the majority are experiencing the exact opposite effect since the update. For most of us the game is much smoother than it was before.  

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

What monitor has a 95hz refresh rate...

 

Do you have a link?

sound like an interesting screen.

That one which is overclocked or use micro dp cable in older gfx card. For example Acer predator

[19//Moach]

curious development -- together with the terrain cfg mentioned earlier, I have also installed ReShade 3.0 

 

for what I could notice, I was able to fly a good full session without the issue coming about in the same critical way it normally goes

 

 

as far as I could tell, it seemed that my game now will take the stutters and "ride it out" much the same way as it did before 2.006

 

it'll still stutter on MP, since the cause of of the issue is indeed something only the devs can fix - but it felt as though either the terrain cfg, or reshade, or a combination of the two have made the game somewhat stutter-resistant (more than prior, for sure) and FPS now appears to resume after a few seconds on the heaviest cases - and in general, performs enough to be flyable under light stuttering 

 

 

so basically, symptoms seem to have been reduced by this so that (for me - others, who knows?) when the stutters come, my fps drops to 20~30, rather than 2~3... it's still annoying as hell, though - and at times it nevertheless continues to drop heavily down to single digits - though yesterday I did not experience this for any longer than an average 30~60 seconds in the handful of times it happened

 

 

 

reshade also makes the game look sweet!! - highly recommended!

[Remontti]

What monitor has a 95hz refresh rate...

 

Do you have a link?

sound like an interesting screen.

 

It's Acer Predator X34. It's a 60Hz monitor but you can override it up to 100Hz.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

For clarity current settings / system and results.

50-60 FPS 3D/Combat
60-120 FPS UI/MAP/LOBBY

My Settings
1920X1080P
ULTRA PRESET
SSAO ON
HDR OFF
BLOOM OFF (Disabled in startup.cfg)
DISTANT GRASS OFF (All grass disabled in startup.cfg - its buggy and "distant" is only a useless 300FT)
X4 DISTANT TERRAIN ON (Custom Terrain.Cfg with 8X higher res)
2X MSAA Anti A (+ SMAA Ultra preset in Reshade)
FRAME LIMITER OFF (Using External Nv Control panel Vsync @ 60fps)
CINEMATIC OFF

My System.
FX-8350 @ 4.2ghz
GTX-780 @ 1.05ghz
16GB DDR3 @ 1.875ghz
Normal SSHD (no SSD)
WIN 10

So anyone with better specs should get the same or better results.
if not check other settings and software.

Edited January 20, 2017 by =r4t=Sshadow14

[Ala13_Super6_1]

I also have stutterers.

I7

16Gb Ram

GTX 770

[EAF_51_FOX]

 

I also have stutterers.

I7

16Gb Ram

GTX 770

 

Do you use FFB Joysick and Track-Ir?

Update: try to raise "camera smoothing" in control panel menu, this solved the problem for me.

Edited January 24, 2017 by EAF_51_FOX

[Quax]

Prior to the Hotfix, I hadn't noticed any issues and was seeing 110-120

 

The Hotfix degraded the performance for all NVidia users. Devs acknowledged this and we can only hope, AMD resolve their driver bug, so this "hotfix" can be removed again. Edited January 29, 2017 by Quax

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

still using the old drivers and smooth play (never even tried new ones)

i think most stuttering is caused by dserver being run on terrible server computers.
i mean sometimes all you see is server full erratic play detected messages.

[Angus]

After the hotfix I must turn off the full screen mode because of stuttering

I also thought everything would be smooth.......After which I have read this here with FFB and Track-Ir , have deactivated FFB.......WOW........Now it is twice as smooth

[Angus]

Without FFB is not  use the joystick feels like a feeble tail

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

yeah it would now you need to fit a centering spring :D

maybe try to shift the Track ir and FFB onto there own seperate cores some how (set the background task for them to different cores not used by IL2 (which uses the first 4 cores)
4 core cpus will be stuck tho

Edited January 30, 2017 by =r4t=Sshadow14

[[TWB]Pand]

The Hotfix degraded the performance for all NVidia users. Devs acknowledged this and we can only hope, AMD resolve their driver bug, so this "hotfix" can be removed again.

 

Could they just update a setting in the launcher that allows the end user to check a box for Nvidia or AMD, and then the program will utilize the appropriate shaders required for each GPU?

Seems like a logical and quick interim fix while they work on a long term solution.