Discussion about 1CGS - TF CLOD Cooperation Announcement

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Hello All

 

I am a little late to this topic, being a little busy with my own side of things.

 

That being said, I do have a unique perspective on this event, being the guy sitting on the other side of the table from Jason.

 

First of all, I will say Jason is being modest both for himself and 1C. They do deserve the credit for initiating this process, and having the foresight to understand this was the right time.

 

A lot of people do not understand that 1C's hands were to a certain extent, tied before this point. Up until the middle of this year, UBISOFT held distribution rights, and any attempt to do a deal such as it appears we have would have been far more complex.

 

1C acted when they could, and they should be congratulated for that fact.

 

Here's another thing from those who want to criticize this deal as an unnecessary diversion away from further development of the BoS game engine:

 

1C is not investing any money in TF... we are an independent... we have to stand or fall on our own two feet. What 1C gains is revenue from the new products TF releases... and they can take that new revenue and re-invest it in BoS to make that series better. Alternately they could re-invest the revenues in a new generation engine which could blow both BoS and CoD out of the water.

 

I'm not sure what any BoS fan would have to dislike about that? Is that not thinking towards the future?

 

Of course, I am happy as a member of TF to have a chance to work with the Source Code, who wouldn't be? But there are lots of advantages for 1C in the deal... otherwise they would not make it.

 

It's a smart deal all round. And Flight Simmers have the benefit of being able to enjoy two sims from the same company.

this is exactly what I been trying to tell people Ubisoft owned the LC agreement from years ago 1C had to wait to pick up the license deal. Good move on Jasons part!!! May he make his dream come true!

Edited December 22, 2016 by 71st_AH_Mastiff

[JG1_Yogi]

 And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others. 

 

Jason I think you are not giving your target audience enough credit. The demographics are clear on flight simmers; we are mostly middle aged men which in general means we have money. You are not competing for our dollars because I can say with a fair degree of confidence that most of us already own all the titles you listed. You got our money. Keep making good stuff & you will keep getting our money!

 

Insofar as people boycotting your product. Piss on em. Haters gonna hate & no matter what will find something to bitch about. Let them boycott, they are a minority. 

 

Now there is some truth in splitting the community because while we may own all these wonderful titles most of our time is limited & we spend that on what we like the most. For me that is BoS/BoM. I just love the theater. Honestly once someone comes out with MTO I will move there at least for awhile but I will continue to buy all the quality titles that service this genre because I love it & because I can. 

[NumeroX]

Like a Phoenix rising from its ashes IL2 COD will be brought back from the brink of oblivion! I had no hopes for this sim before but now... I'm excited, worried, happy, sad, emotional, cold I just don't know how to feel about this announcement. I had moved on but did I? Why do I feel like this? It's like IL2 COD is the ex girlfriend that I left in limbo.

Edited December 22, 2016 by NumeroX

[Avimimus]

Congrats all round!

 

I could not be prouder of 1C or happier for the TF team which worked for four years to make this possible...

[SYN_Jedders]

The CLOD debacle has already hurt sales due mainly to those that boycotted our product because of politics, rumors, arguments, unlocks and other crap including us not giving TF the source code earlier. And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others. The only way to grab new customers is to:

 

1. Erase the bullshit political divide that plagues this community and genre.

2. Make a better product.

 

We're doing both and forcing players into one path has already proven to be not good for any hardcore sim product. You don't see the things I see.

 

Jason

 

Well said. You needed a thick skin at times over the last years!

 

Hat off to you all for moving the genre forward once again and leaving egos at the door.

 

Hopefully the future is now bright again with clear skies

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by SYN_Jedders

[JG4_Bewolf]

As promised, got it all. Not gonna lie, BoX is not for me, for various reasons.

But whatever helps BoX also helps CloD.

S!

[LLv44_Mprhead]

This is really great news!

Edited December 22, 2016 by I./ZG1_Mprhead

[DD_Arthur]

i love clod. i adore BOS. great news. 

 

now awaiting an announcement that santa is real.....

 

Good news!  I can confirm, Santa is real. 

[Forged]

Super excited to hear this! This has always been my favorite wwii sim, but I had no idea it still had a good following.

[T6-ADStukadriver]

This is great news. I hope that the various "bugs" that keep the player from being able to play the Steam CLoD simulation will also be fixed. I have had the Steam version of the Cliffs of Dover for a long time and cannot get it to launch. So...if the talented resources of your team, the Fusion Team and the IC group can work on this...please do try to make a clean version that will not fail to launch after its download. I am not a person who can easily maneuver around computer files and such, so having a very dependable program is important to me. The iL2 Team has done a wonderful job in making their product work so very well...I hope the CLoD Team follows their ways.

Thanks for pursuing this issue. I anxiously look forward to seeing your product.

[BM357_TinMan]

I am really happy to hear this.  This IL2 BoX version is, in many ways, an excellent and even superior product.  However, I have little to no interest in the Eastern theatre and am extremely interested in DCS style realism (start up procedures, etc).  So, I do hope that TF will have great success with making IL2 CloD a viable product and expand the Western Theatre.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

I am really happy to hear this.  This IL2 BoX version is, in many ways, an excellent and even superior product.  However, I have little to no interest in the Eastern theatre and am extremely interested in DCS style realism (start up procedures, etc).  So, I do hope that TF will have great success with making IL2 CloD a viable product and expand the Western Theatre.

 

If you're looking for startup procedures I'm not sure why Cliffs is an exciting option... There is no startup procedure other than opening the fuel cock and pressing E.

[Vlerkies]

The CLOD debacle has already hurt sales due mainly to those that boycotted our product because of politics, rumors, arguments, unlocks and other crap including us not giving TF the source code earlier. And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others. The only way to grab new customers is to:

 

1. Erase the bullshit political divide that plagues this community and genre.

2. Make a better product.

 

We're doing both and forcing players into one path has already proven to be not good for any hardcore sim product. You don't see the things I see.

 

Jason

 

 

Anything with airplanes is competition and those users are potential customers even if a remote possibility. Even if the crossover is 1% from various sources it adds up. Not everyone segments themselves and supports only one game. Also, we compete in different areas. Visuals, sound, FMs, Content etc. Any one appealing feature may bring a new customer. Some of you are only looking at "type of product" a the key ingredient. I will never win over most WT, DCS, FSX or other products users, I just need some and my core audience we've already built. The problem is many in the core audience, all the shit talking about us and our product due to closing CLOD and Unlocks didn't do us any favors. I have 16 months to change that or die basically.

 

Help me or leave me alone is all I ask.

 

Jason

 

Great news, I applaud all those involved in this fundamental shift in thinking.

It can only be good for the future.

 

When I started to see some of your posts on Atag and surveys etc it indeed looked as though you and others were trying to think outside the box within a legal framework.

I never purchased BoS, but I can assure you that in the next few minutes after I hit reply to this post I will wander off to steam and purchase it.

I don't do much flying anymore (at least for the last year) but its the only way I can show support.

Thank you.

 

 

Salute.

[BM357_TinMan]

If you're looking for startup procedures I'm not sure why Cliffs is an exciting option... There is no startup procedure other than opening the fuel cock and pressing E.

You may be right.  I don't remember.  It has been a couple of years since I played it.  I just remember having to do "stuff".

[III./SG77S_Falke]

I have "Cliffs of Dover" and wanted to fly on the German side but the game appears somewhat limited in this respect.  As a result, I am very much looking forward to this new venture between these two organizations.

 

Hopefully, something similar will happen with "Rise of Flight"... 

[II./JG27_Rich]

Happy Happy Joy Joy!!          

[JG1_Yogi]

This is great news. I hope that the various "bugs" that keep the player from being able to play the Steam CLoD simulation will also be fixed. I have had the Steam version of the Cliffs of Dover for a long time and cannot get it to launch. So..

 

This is a known issue with Win10. Install the TF mod over your steam version & disable steam updates & you will be in the air! 

[claudius_]

Very good news, thank you Jason and TF! Also my mind goes to Oleg.

[Vlerkies]

Just purchased BoS and BoM in support.

[BOO]

This is a known issue with Win10. Install the TF mod over your steam version & disable steam updates & you will be in the air! 

I think T6 meant a simple, one click download, always up to date version like we have with BOS - as i understand it,  that is coming to steam in the next few months which is really good news (IMHO) for a lot of people that simply dont like having to click on stuff. 

 

BOO

Edited December 22, 2016 by 4./JG52_BOO

[Lusekofte]

Anyway you see it, the good won, the common sense did get the upper hand, and that was the first time in 2016 that happened.

[KG_S_Denis73]

I love to hear this news and  I am very excited. Thanks to all being involved and making this happen. I would like to know if Oleg is happy with what is happening, i hope so. Jason, since you took over i see more and more positivism here, lots respect to you.

[GunnyHighway]

Interesting indeed!

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

My only fear in this marriage is we may see our old friend (player who shall remain unnamed) ranting like a psycho, from the old EA days. Other than that, no downside. Well done.

Edited December 22, 2016 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[SvAF/F19_Tomten]

I was wondering.. Is it possible for the teams to share aircraft models and other stuff between BoX and ClOD? That would be great if that was the case.

[Danziger]

I was wondering.. Is it possible for the teams to share aircraft models and other stuff between BoX and ClOD? That would be great if that was the case.

I know in the past people were saying it's not possible. Han was posting a comparison of the Clod Spitfire and why they weren't using it for BoK so I guess it is possible.

 

Hopefully some talented modders can get them in when we get Mods On mode.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Not a programmer but when I asked this question I was told it is possible but it depends on a few factors. As you said, Han and Co prefer to build their own Spitfire (and probably most/all aircraft) as they have a particular fidelity target in mind which they feel is best served in-house.

[ACG_KaiLae]

I know in the past people were saying it's not possible. Han was posting a comparison of the Clod Spitfire and why they weren't using it for BoK so I guess it is possible.

 

Hopefully some talented modders can get them in when we get Mods On mode.

 

Porting stuff from CLoD to BOS isn't because of improvements apparently. Is the same true from BOS to CLoD? Could a P-40 model or MC202 be easily copied? At least the exteriors, interiors will have to be redone.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Kudos Jason. This is an outstanding development in the flight SIM genre. Well done to you and your crew for very forward thinking. I have bought everything but the JU52 as I had no intention of flying it but I will purchase right now. Very good news

[itsmecamille]

This is awesome news and it will definitely help move on from the times when the ww2 sim community became deeply divided. Jason you're doing an amazing job at perceiving some of the common frustrations that have existed in the community and addressing them in a record time. I'm so happy that you've had so much influence and ability to change things during 2016. I've often expressed my frustration over the unlocks, the campaign and the lack of VR in the past but for me all of this is truly in the past, and everything that you've done so far and are planning for the future is prefectly aligned with my whishlist. I think the CloD news is the last bit which will convince me indeed to fill up my ILS BoX library and buy everything that I had not yet.

 

The ww2 sim future is right here so let's make it happen

[Cyclone-Six]

Awesome... just Awesome.. Can't wait ..

[CageyMoose]

Wonderful news indeed!

 

[Aufpassen]

Very good news, applaude all involved!

 

Best regards,

 

Aufpassen!

[hsthhsth]

Keep up the good work Jason, I hope you reach the goals you've set!

 

Please make CoD also non-steam so I can buy another copy in your shop.

[Blooddawn1942]

Yes. A none Steam version would be great! Would re buy it immediately.

[jokerBR]

What a great Xmas gift. Now we are talking!  

[Bearcat]

Team Fusion would like to thank Jason Williams, Nikolay Baryshnikov and 1C Games for their generous decision to take this first step towards partnering with us.

We hope to fulfill their trust and provide a worthy successor to CLIFFS OF DOVER, in the proud tradition of BATTLE OF STALINGRAD, BATTLE OF MOSCOW and the entire IL-2 STURMOVIK series.

We look forward to a long and productive collaboration between our companies.

 

As do most of us. I think this is a fantastic move. 

 

While it's awesome that 1CGS is legitimizing the incalculable amount of work that team fusion has put into making cliffs of dover a viable sim I'm not sure putting any more work into clod and that game engine is the smartest move.

 

If 1CGS is is willing to go this far, why not go all the way and bring team fusion on as a sponsored parallel studio to develop different theaters / scenarios / content for the BoS engine? Similar to what DCS does with their third party developers.

 

Everyone would win in that scenario:

 

-Team fusion has the opportunity to make money for their hard work

-We would likely get twice the content over the same period of time

-The already thin and divided player base would be consolidated onto one platform.

 

Probably would never happen, but I can dream though, right?

 

I think that the unity that this will bring to the genre will outweigh any potential loss of sales. Besides as Jason said below... 1CGS is  in competition with every other product in the genre anyway. 

 

Unification under one platform sounds like better idea to me. Like ED is doing with really talented 3rd party studios.

What I read from this announcement is just commercial move. Both groups under one roof working on different engines. Like VW concern. You have Skoda and you have Porsche there. But Skoda is not Porsche.

 

That may come in the future...  who knows .. but who saw this coming? I certainly did not. For me one of the biggest takeaways from the most recent events in this sim with this team is.. many folks just need to calm down and let them do what they will do. We .. none of us.. are in a position to second guess the decisions of this team because none of us know any of the behind the scenes details.. I would have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall over the past few weeks as this was developing. This is good for the genre.. and what is good for the genre is good for every product in it. We will now have 3 top notch sims with full support able to sustain themselves commercially with each sim offering something that the others do not..  I look forward to the future.    

 

For those giving me kudos, thanks. However, I am not the one making final decisions on this topic so much credit goes to them. I have indeed had a role to play putting it together and I'm happy for that, but I cannot take all credit. Also, I am not a producer for TF now. I still work for 1C-777 only.

 

My overriding belief is that for the genre to re-bound we need multiple products being made with as much content as possible and each one offering something slightly different driving innovation. As I have said many times, if everyone who bought the original IL-2, bought our product, we'd have enough money to make everything you want. That's not reality though so we need to think outside the box.

 

And there is no practical way to merge the two engines and teams, so the best answer to the allow each team to pursue their vision and look at the results. The deal that was put together is about as win-win as can be expected.

 

Jason

 

 

Unpopular opinion time:

This is bad business for 1CGS. Giving consumers a reason to stick with CLOD and not to move to the new sim is going to hurt sales, not help.

 

I disagree.. I think that healing the breach between the two camps is going to be more beneficial in the long run. 

 

The CLOD debacle has already hurt sales due mainly to those that boycotted our product because of politics, rumors, arguments, unlocks and other crap including us not giving TF the source code earlier. And we already compete with ROF, 1946, DCS, WT, FSX, P3D and several others. The only way to grab new customers is to:

 

1. Erase the bullshit political divide that plagues this community and genre.

2. Make a better product.

 

We're doing both and forcing players into one path has already proven to be not good for any hardcore sim product. You don't see the things I see.

 

Jason

 

 

Anything with airplanes is competition and those users are potential customers even if a remote possibility. Even if the crossover is 1% from various sources it adds up. Not everyone segments themselves and supports only one game. Also, we compete in different areas. Visuals, sound, FMs, Content etc. Any one appealing feature may bring a new customer. Some of you are only looking at "type of product" a the key ingredient. I will never win over most WT, DCS, FSX or other products users, I just need some and my core audience we've already built. The problem is many in the core audience, all the shit talking about us and our product due to closing CLOD and Unlocks didn't do us any favors. I have 16 months to change that or die basically.

 

Help me or leave me alone is all I ask.

 

Jason

 

 

 

Hello All

 

I am a little late to this topic, being a little busy with my own side of things. 

 

That being said, I do have a unique perspective on this event, being the guy sitting on the other side of the table from Jason.

 

First of all, I will say Jason is being modest both for himself and 1C.  They do deserve the credit for initiating this process, and having the foresight to understand this was the right time.

 

A lot of people do not understand that 1C's hands were to a certain extent, tied before this point.  Up until the middle of this year, UBISOFT held distribution rights, and any attempt to do a deal such as it appears we have would have been far more complex.

 

1C acted when they could, and they should be congratulated for that fact.

 

Here's another thing from those who want to criticize this deal as an unnecessary diversion away from further development of the BoS game engine:

 

1C is not investing any money in TF... we are an independent... we have to stand or fall on our own two feet.  What 1C gains is revenue from the new products TF releases... and they can take that new revenue and re-invest it in BoS to make that series better.  Alternately they could re-invest the revenues in a new generation engine which could blow both BoS and CoD out of the water.

 

I'm not sure what any BoS fan would have to dislike about that?   Is that not thinking towards the future?

 

Of course, I am happy as a member of TF to have a chance to work with the Source Code, who wouldn't be?  But there are lots of advantages for 1C in the deal... otherwise they would not make it.

 

It's a smart deal all round.  And Flight Simmers have the benefit of being able to enjoy two sims from the same company. 

 

Good to see you and Neil chime in on this... 

 

Some of the negativity in this thread just needs to stop .. really... If Jason, Buzzsaw and MP.. and the rest of  (or at least the majority) 1CGS & TF are excited about this then we should be as well (or at least not perpetuate the negative waves..,) since it is their hard work that will make or break this and we as simmers will be the ultimate beneficiaries. 

 

 I say... BRING IT.   

[Mac_Messer]

Wonderful news. I am optimistic about the announcement and hope that the cooperation will benefit both titles, since theoretically CoD and BoX have the same install base.

 

I know I  have been waiting for Africa to happen for years.

[Rigmor]

Fantastic news, so...first thing first restore the original name: Storm of War: Battle of Britain

Edited December 23, 2016 by Rigmor

[Vlerkies]

 

 

Some of the negativity in this thread just needs to stop .. really...

Don't mind the chaff, it will always be there, sadly.

No use on wasting energy on negativity. No doubt most of you know energy is precious in the fight.

 

I will wager that all parties have for some time recognized this is the way forward, but their hands were tied, not emotionally, intentionally, or by any allegiance of sorts, but by a legal framework for the most part.

 

Folks need to leave that all behind and support this initiative which includes everyone's interests. I'm with you Bearcat, bring it!!!!