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Assistance required, BF109 F-2 etc


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#1 No.6_OTU_Halon

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 18:32

Hi, I'm a keen but quite novice pilot whose focused solely on VVS up till this point. As a complete aeronoob sometimes its hard to tell whether I'm doing something wrong or if things are behaving as planned. I'm currently transfering over to the BF109 F-2 in anticipation of the upcoming campaign.

 

Firstly I'm finding it quite hard, in general, to aim smoothly. I often find myself zeroing in on a ground target only to find myself veering all over the place once I'm within range. What can I do to be a bit more fine tuned? Air to air shooting is less of a problem.

 

Secondly could someone explain what the Adjustable Stabiliser is? Is it just horizontal trim with another name?

 

Lastly a good guide to the BF109 F-2 would be great if anyone could share a link.

 

Thanks for any help rendered.


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#2 LukeFF

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 18:36

Secondly could someone explain what the Adjustable Stabiliser is? Is it just horizontal trim with another name?

 

It controls the plane's pitch by adjusting the angle of the tailplane. Similar in function to pitch trim but not exactly the same thing. You'll also find it on the MC.202 and FW 190 (the latter uses keypresses to adjust it).


Edited by LukeFF, 07 December 2016 - 18:37.

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#3 gnomechompsky

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 14:58

What is the difference between them though?
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#4 LukeFF

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 15:25

What is the difference between them though?

 

Pitch trim - adjusts trim tabs on the horizontal tailplane

Adjustable Stabilizer - adjusts the entire horizontal tailplane

 

That's the simplified version of it. :) Someone else will need to provide a more detailed explanation. 


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#5 GridiroN

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 22:18

Hi, I'm a keen but quite novice pilot whose focused solely on VVS up till this point. As a complete aeronoob sometimes its hard to tell whether I'm doing something wrong or if things are behaving as planned. I'm currently transfering over to the BF109 F-2 in anticipation of the upcoming campaign.

 

Firstly I'm finding it quite hard, in general, to aim smoothly. I often find myself zeroing in on a ground target only to find myself veering all over the place once I'm within range. What can I do to be a bit more fine tuned? Air to air shooting is less of a problem.

 

Secondly could someone explain what the Adjustable Stabiliser is? Is it just horizontal trim with another name?

 

Lastly a good guide to the BF109 F-2 would be great if anyone could share a link.

 

Thanks for any help rendered.

 

1. The 109 is just a wobbly plane. You get used to it. Some versions are less wobbly than others. The F2 and G2 are quite stable. The F4 wobbles like it's on cocaine. 

 

2. The stabilizer is a trim style in which the entire tail fin is moved up or down to level the flight. The advantage being that it modifies flight quickly and very strongly. The disadvantage being a shot to the stabalizer rod, which is common, leaves the plane unable to fly level without serious pilot input, sometimes the plane is totally fubared. Now a days, modern airliners use both stabilizers and trimmers, but during WW2, allied designs only used trimmers. 

 

3. The guide to the F2 is the same for all Messerschmitts in so far as just look up posts about it or watch good pilots on YouTube and account for the F2 being slower with a worse climb and worse dive. 


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#6 =R4T=Sshadow14

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 02:22

big difference is that Trim tabs Do not alter the tails Angle
where as Stab trim alter the entire angle (incidence) and this alter the WINGS usable and workable AoA Limits.

Planes with Stab trim can fly at AoA that the same plane with only trim tabs could not.


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#7 6./ZG26_5tuka

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:42

Nope. Crit. AoA of the wing has nothing to do with the stabilizer.

To sum it up conventional pitch trimers are small adjustable tabs fittet to the elevator. By adjusting your trim in the cockpit the tab will be angled accordingly causing the elevator to produce more/less lift.

With an adjustable stabilizer the angle of the whole horizontal tailplane changes which causes it to produce more or less lift inducing a pitching momentum.

One advantage of the later is that because you have a larger surface trim was very responsive even at high airspeeds where the elevator effectivenes becomes unsufficient. Trim tabs on the other hand will only ever be as effective as your elevator is.

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka, 25 January 2017 - 05:43.

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#8 =R4T=Sshadow14

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 07:14

Stuka changing the incidence angle of the horizontal stabilizer as does the trim in 109 will alter the wings Centre of pressure and CG and therefore also the AOA and AoA is determined by wing design and CG

Here is a pic taken from the Detail PDF To large to upload here (81 page doc) but ill link it.

EHXiRX9.jpg

you have to remember that a tail is an inverted airfoil providing pressure pushing the tail down keeping the whole plane balanced due to the location of the CG on the wing the plane Always Wants to fly Aligning the tail with airflow hence how elevator or Flying tail work due to pivot point around the CG.

This is why in large airliners they have Stab trim so they can adjust the wings AoA during the flight as they loose fuel and the CG moves for or aft.

Edit: forgot to link the doc
https://www.google.c...sGFDjsA&cad=rja

 


Edited by =r4t=Sshadow14, 25 January 2017 - 07:18.

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#9 6./ZG26_5tuka

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:48

Known, still you said it altered the AoA limit of the wing (alias the critical Angle of Attack) which is false (could be you didn't mean to say that, no pun intendet).

 

Normal trim also results in an AoA change so that property is not tied down to stabilizer trim. It just implies your pitch angle changes and with it the AoA.


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