really disappointing that the LW only dog fights on WOL

[JG13_opcode]

Here's what happens when LW wins. People complain about us whether we win or lose. This is why I am only on WOL to dogfight.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[Willy__]

Didnt you get the memo ? LW is not allowed to win...   

[ITAF_Rani]

I don' t understand why don t limit number of bombers also...this will avoid boring suicide attack from vvs..(look at their stats they have hundreds of deaths)..this will provide imo a more realistic way to combat ..and maybe the fighters will escort bombers more often..

Just my two cents

Edited January 14, 2017 by ITAF_Rani

[Scojo]

I love it. I rack up the ground kills while they're at 1-3km above the objective.

 

I always laugh to myself when a Luftie dives on me and attacks me AFTER I'm already headed home having completed my objective.

 

Of course I want and try to get back home safe and sound, but either way, I've completed my objective and they haven't, so it's still entertaining.

Edited January 17, 2017 by 71st_AH_Scojo

[Baer]

As a pilot who hasn't even went on any of the servers I was wondering about the strengths and weaknesses of each.  In everyones opinion, what are the two best servers for new pilots.  Right now I'm thinking of Wings of Liberty.  Regards.  

[Scojo]

As a pilot who hasn't even went on any of the servers I was wondering about the strengths and weaknesses of each.  In everyones opinion, what are the two best servers for new pilots.  Right now I'm thinking of Wings of Liberty.  Regards.  

Depends on what you want.

 

I'd fly a sortie in each and see what suits you.

 

WoL tries to mimic some sort of realism with their objectives. However, it still feels a little gamey as airfields are close and it's a rotation of maps that always come back around and so the only real goal is to up your leaderboard stats.

 

TAW, which isn't up till January end is heavily focused on realism. Deadly flak, longer flight times. Map wins aren't kill or survive, you can win a map by damaging enemy tanks enough and protecting your own defensive lines. Destroying alternate objectives also affect those. Each map is dependent on what happened in the last map and the goal is to win the "War", which means pushing across the "full map" over the coarse of several months.

 

I don't know much about Random Expert. My squad doesn't fly there.

 

Then there are servers that are very "gamey". Dogfighting servers. I tried a new server the other day where there are tank spawns and airfields and the sole goal was to kill all enemy tanks on the map before the enemy kills yours.

 

So server choice comes down to whatever your ideal flight sim experience is.

 

Mine is to fly organized with my squad, so I go where they go, which tends to be WoL since it's usually the most populated. Though, I hope to get some of them flying TAW when it's back up for the new campaign as I like the idea behind TAW.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

No the fix!!

A Only allow 1/3 of germans to be fighters than anyone else must fly a bomber.

Just like now if i enter a map and its 5 VVS versus 10 LW - even tho i really dont like russian bombers its not upto me ( I HAVE NO CHOICE I OBVIOUSLY MUST FLY VVS choosing the side already unbalanced is both selfish and anti team)
Just like now if i enter a map and there is not enough bombers (I HAVE NO CHOICE I OBVIOUSLY MUST FLY BOMBERS)
Play for the team not for yourself thats what Single player is for.
 

[BubiHUN]

No the fix!!

 

A Only allow 1/3 of germans to be fighters than anyone else must fly a bomber.

 

Just like now if i enter a map and its 5 VVS versus 10 LW - even tho i really dont like russian bombers its not upto me ( I HAVE NO CHOICE I OBVIOUSLY MUST FLY VVS choosing the side already unbalanced is both selfish and anti team)

Just like now if i enter a map and there is not enough bombers (I HAVE NO CHOICE I OBVIOUSLY MUST FLY BOMBERS)

Play for the team not for yourself thats what Single player is for.

 

True. I had enough from the bs at WoL. most of the time i spot an enemy, few secs later a lemming train of my team shouldershooting behind me(multiple guys).

The teamplay in Luftwaffe team at WoL is oftenly grows, if there are some people who helps it. BUT, the beginners, the stat hunters, who see one of his teamate chasing an enemy, he goes for it too, and i think they screaming "ITS MINE! MINE! MINE! I WANT IT!"  instead of covering his teamate.

It is annoying :/ 

Most of the people there doesnt have any common sense, and i think i will avoid this server in the future.

[Max_Damage]

When you play red, you have to go against seriously superior fighter planes in bad planes.

When you play blue you have an uber craft and use it against ground attack planes which cant fight back.

 

The reason why going blue is a no brainer. I wish i encountered more blue bombers while playing red.

[Scojo]

So lately, I've been trying my hand at bombing as LW.

 

Just some observations from my 20+ missions:

 

During peak hours, I'm no longer convinced that LW only dogfight. When taking off, I'd always see at least 2 or 3 stukas doing so as well and at map start, you could double that and count the same in He-111s.

 

During the few missions I flew in off hours, there were still quite a few dedicated bomber pilots. In fact, we were constantly communicating about what targets we were hitting, where enemy fighters were heaviest, etc... That's something I practically never experience on VVS side.

 

Also, during my LW missions, I encountered fighters much more often, even if it was only seeing them(dogfight or not). As Russian, I can easily guarantee several missions without seeing an enemy fighter when hitting out of the way objectives, but when flying as LW, I was always coming home with a fighter seeing me and setting chase or actually hitting me over the objective.

 

I think the issue here isn't that LW only dogfights, it's that they just have a higher fighter to bomber ratio than Russians in off peak hours. This results in similar bomber numbers on each side, but more LW fighters than VVS fighters because LW usually has a higher population. Their downfall though? They, even more so than VVS, hang out almost entirely over mid map objectives.

 

I think if you want to find LW bombers to prey on, you need to do two things, based on my experience fighting with them:

 

1) Hang over out of the way objectives long enough to see the one or two bombers that are making return trips

 ( which fighters don't do. Usually if they don't see anything they fly to the middle of the map where they know more planes will be)

 

2) Put effort in slipping further past the front lines and patrolling between enemy airfields and objectives ( I was never pounced by a VVS fighter until I got to the target or was heading home, and when I get attacked over a middle map target there's always plenty of LW fighters lining up on the guys tail as I try to escape)

 

As I fly more, I'm sure I'll get a better picture of the real situation.

Edited February 1, 2017 by 71st_AH_Scojo

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

Here's what happens when LW wins. People complain about us whether we win or lose. This is why I am only on WOL to dogfight.

 

whos complaining in this snap shot i don't understand  .    i remember the game though i'd only been in the server 20 mins and had a few beers  WOOOooooooo .   i must have been in a good mood . i think it was a friday night.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

people like that are funny..

translation
"Why rush to win the game, i wanted to farm kills for stats some more (even tho i know it does nothing to help my team and i am just a selfish fighter elitist and would never touch a bomber)"

[Scojo]

"Why do people rush to destroy objectives?"

 

Because that's literally what determines who wins?

 

But to be fair, I believe I've typically seen Luftwaffles flying as LW, not VVS. I may be wrong though

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

 

 

over half only FW190's the rest only 109s and one HE111.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by 71st_AH_Mastiff

[curiousGamblerr]

Mastiff, the solution is simple. If you don't like it, stop going there. I don't want to sound harsh, your point is as old as the hills and I understand it fully. Personally I like WoL it's a good for a quick fix or warm up to more serious fun but it's not the be all end all.

 

My suggestion is to help to populate one of the servers that does the things that you like...

[BraveSirRobin]

iwonderwhy.jpg

 

over half only FW190's the rest only 109s and one HE111.

 

 

Wait, the day that a new 190 FM was released and lots of people are using it online? Shocking...

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Still has a point..
In a 84 player server if 35 people on your team take a 190 or 109 you have to suck it UP and fly a bomber to help the team even if you dont like them (mostly as they too complex to fly)

[Thad]

iwonderwhy.jpg

 

over half only FW190's the rest only 109s and one HE111.

 

 

Salutations,

 

I will take a wild guess as to why more pilots don't choose bombers. It is simple. They don't like being repeatedly shot out of the sky in the slow flying bombers. Fighter support could help, but that requires coordination and cooperation. Usually lacking.

[Scojo]

Salutations,

 

I will take a wild guess as to why more pilots don't choose bombers. It is simple. They don't like being repeatedly shot out of the sky in the slow flying bombers. Fighter support could help, but that requires coordination and cooperation. Usually lacking.

On the LW side I would say this is the case, however....

 

The Peshka is amazing. It's a flying tank and with the blister turret, you can't fire it a lot due to low ammo, but if you fire close and trade shots with a fighter, you can easily get some kills and at least make it to friendly lines and bail, though I still get home a lot.

 

In fact, I think my rear gunner was an ace at one point last month(I helped him out some)

 

But even if you don't switch to gunner seats, you can do some pretty nice maneuvers with the Peshka to stay alive long enough. One sortie coming back from a bombing run, I spotted a 109 closing in and I turned into him and did some barrel rolls and loops with him and he couldn't get a shot. He eventually seemed to get bored and peeled off, but maybe my gunner or the few shots I took scared him off.

 

I can't help but think a group of Peshkas maneuvering together when fighters roll in would be a scary scenario for attacking fighters. They could easily weave or wagon wheel and at least keep the fighters at bay long enough to come across a friendly fighter

[BraveSirRobin]

When the 110G shows up on WoL we might see more German ground pounders.

[JG13_opcode]

Still has a point..

In a 84 player server if 35 people on your team take a 190 or 109 you have to suck it UP and fly a bomber to help the team even if you dont like them (mostly as they too complex to fly)

 

Actually the nice thing about multiplayer is that you can do what you like! For example, I find ground attack to be supremely boring. I would rather fly against humans than fly against AI flak gunners. So I choose to fly against humans and choose not to fly ground attack. If there are only 10 enemy players online I'll usually just leave and go furball in Berloga despite the 250ms+ ping.

 

When the 110G shows up on WoL we might see more German ground pounders.

Agreed. There used to be a guy on Warclouds that was an absolute superman flying the 110. Can't wait to see more.

[ACG_Invictus]

12/4/16

 

20 109 pilots and just disappointing that they don't fly the missions but only come in here to dogfight for stats.

 

I dogfight for fun....stats are irrelevant.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

there are dog fight servers...

WoL Rules prevent/disagree with it.

Fighters your task is to protect your bombers/attacks and ground unit  (Thats it for WoL)
No solo flights 150km out of the way to their Rear AF so you can vulch taking off PE-2

anyways who cares

[StG77_Kondor]

When the 110G shows up on WoL we might see more German ground pounders.

 

Or if they ever allowed the 190 to carry more than SC50's or SC250.

[BraveSirRobin]

Or if they ever allowed the 190 to carry more than SC50's or SC250.

I think they felt the missions did not last long enough when they allowed that.

[StG77_Kondor]

I think they felt the missions did not last long enough when they allowed that.

 

As opposed to when Pe-2's rush in and blow it all up before an 88 or 111 can even get close to theirs?

 

In all honesty, I get it. I'm not really all that worked up over it. It's a good 'arcade' server where one can fly with friends for fun, without having the extra worry, drama, and unnecessary tension of another DF server. Is the level of competition as high as other servers? Definitely not. But I think WoL serves a great purpose - until we finally get COOP missions and servers instituted to the game.

[BraveSirRobin]

As opposed to when Pe-2's rush in and blow it all up before an 88 or 111 can even get close to theirs?

.

The new 110 should solve that problem.

[Willy__]

 

 

The new 110 should solve that problem.

 

Sorry but besides being a bit faster and having better 20mm cannons, the new 110s have the same exactly bombload as the old one. And I doubt they will make it available in a lot of missions for the BK37 make any difference. 

[JG13_opcode]

As opposed to when Pe-2's rush in and blow it all up before an 88 or 111 can even get close to theirs?

IME red wins missions not because the Pe-2 is uber (though it's really good) but because guys like Drinkins just suicide into objectives over and over. I've seen him land at convoys to snipe the trucks with his turret gunners.

 

Nothing wrong with that, of course. It's just not what I would characterize as fun.

Edited February 5, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

the problem is not the planes.

the problem is like 2 days ago
48LW Versus 18 VVS (we had only 4 bombers!!!)
Of course the VVS won There is no way you can win only flying fighters.

As you can see from my sig
I only help the team win not make my stats shine

Tho i do things that dont help team sometimes
(i try to fly home every mission even if this mean limping home in 111 @ 180kph on 1 engine)

As a dedicated bomber i think something needs to be done more about bombers who suicide to avoid having to fly home, i crash a lot but i do stupid things (dive bombing in 111)
(maybe a death timer of 5 minutes if death not caused by enemy plane or Direct result of AAA/FLAK)

 

[Semir]

I think the problem is that LW bombers are not able to protect themselves - any RU fighter can sit on their 6 and spray away as the russian engines can easily soak a full clip of mg17. Most of the time the AI gunner doesnt even hit.

 

PE2 on the other hand has those weird pilot snipes or insta-engine snipes that get you even if you are pulling the most perfect dive on it - they aren't just worth the risk for the amount of reward you are getting - yaks do not have rear sniper gunners.

 

So there you have it - pe2 pilots can get kills and bomb targets. LW bombers get shot up and give up. RU fighters can beat up LW bombers without a problem. LW fighters resort to only dogfights as it is actually skill based rather than dice rolling with AI gunner.

 

Winning the game brings you nothing. Getting kills feels rewarding.

 

On the other hand on servers like Random Expert killing bombers is actually worthwhile as they are fairly expensive to take out.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Semir

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

ITS THE FIGHTERS JOB...

Quote directly from WoL RULES!
"Fighters your task is to cover bombers and attackers and cover your ground units"

That does not mean go flying around the map 50km from any objective or to enemy AF looking to vulch players taking off.

I recently had this
We 2 x he-111 take off from marinovka with 5 other fighters.. NONE OF THEM FOLLOW US AS PER THEIR JOB
5 mins later we get shot down by 1 fighter who was never challenged where was our escort/cover (2 killed each other in TK Argument)
other 3 A "Squad" went to vulch players from AF that was over 70km from any objective.

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by =r4t=Sshadow14

[Semir]

ITS THE FIGHTERS JOB...

 

Quote directly from WoL RULES!

"Fighters your task is to cover bombers and attackers and cover your ground units"

 

That does not mean go flying around the map 50km from any objective or to enemy AF looking to vulch players taking off.

 

 

It may come as a surprise but I am sure most people come to play this game to have fun, not to do the job you propose they have to do. If the job is no fun nobody will do it.

 

Close support works, but 109's only advantage is energy and nobody in bombers climbs to 4-5km before asking for escort. And whats worse -after all of the effort you just get dove on by a RU fighter that simply ignores the escort, sticks on your 6 lights you up then breaks into pieces as he is shot up by the escort - in the end you are at the loss as he is back at that alt in 5 minutes, while it takes you half an hour to climb.

 

As for flying cap over your own objectives the latest streak of RU bombers took some lessons from Japanese in that pe2 on fire still flies to the target, drops bombs and proceeds to ram AAA. Much more reliable to intercept those as they take off - chances they won't be able to make it to the target with damage (if anyone even risks engaging pe2 at all)

 

 

 

I recently had this

We 2 x he-111 take off from marinovka with 5 other fighters.. NONE OF THEM FOLLOW US AS PER THEIR JOB

5 mins later we get shot down by 1 fighter who was never challenged where was our escort/cover (2 killed each other in TK Argument)

other 3 A "Squad" went to vulch players from AF that was over 70km from any objective.

 

 

Reverse this with a single 109 against 2x pe2 and the outcome is 1 dead 109 with 1 intact pe2 and 1 slightly wounded pe2 - here is a perfect example https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26963-developer-diary-part-143-discussion/

Edited February 5, 2017 by Semir

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

its not what i propose they have to do its in the server rules and the games design.
 

[Semir]

its not what i propose they have to do its in the server rules and the games design.

 

 

 

Good thing that they do not specify how close you need to be to the bombers / targets to "cover" them, right?

[Scojo]

We lose Pe-2s all the time with the 109s heading back home safe and sound....

 

The LW problem isn't the powerfulness of the Pe-2, it's that you guys only seem to look for us over the target or after we've dropped bombs and caused a string of kill messages. I've never seen a 109 before getting to an objective.

 

Alternatively, when I get to fly LW, I can always guarantee seeing a Russian fighter at least just before the start of my attack run. However, unlike bombing as Russian, there's always a 109 there to take him off of me since there's always a bajillion 109 fighter pilots roaming around

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Of course it's better to intercept enemy bombers before they cross front line in they way to target but spotting from high above is almost luck not the skill. Flying low could help but is dangerous especially in the enemy territory.

[Scojo]

Of course it's better to intercept enemy bombers before they cross front line in they way to target but spotting from high above is almost luck not the skill. Flying low could help but is dangerous especially in the enemy territory.

So then by all means, keep letting me have free reign on the targets. I really don't mind

[StG77_Kondor]

 

We lose Pe-2s all the time with the 109s heading back home safe and sound....

 

The LW problem isn't the powerfulness of the Pe-2, it's that you guys only seem to look for us over the target or after we've dropped bombs and caused a string of kill messages. I've never seen a 109 before getting to an objective.

 

Alternatively, when I get to fly LW, I can always guarantee seeing a Russian fighter at least just before the start of my attack run. However, unlike bombing as Russian, there's always a 109 there to take him off of me since there's always a bajillion 109 fighter pilots roaming around

 

 

There is truth to some of your points. I fly bomber/attack 90% of the time. I rarely see 109s fly in between objs waiting to intercept Russian attack planes. They're either camping our objs (usually badly - as in too high to see anything) or camping red AFs. Through the course of say, a weekend of flying - I could count on one hand the amount of times my request for escort was answered and carried out. 

 

As I've said before, it's a good server for what it is. Organized Air Quake & Easy blue bomber kills .

[Semir]

So then by all means, keep letting me have free reign on the targets. I really don't mind

 

 

You are welcome to get your ground kills (why even bother doing it in MP?) while I am getting my air kills Just as I said before - yaks thankfully can't shoot backwards and they don't get the all-aware gunner to warn them about 6 every time. They can do their flaps red star moves but thats OK.

 

Until bombers are easier to kill than the fighters I'll stay up and ignore objectives on WOL.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Semir