Summery of Special Teamspeak Event Saturday Dec. 3rd

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Anyone remember the date for likely coop mode implementation?

Around June 2017.

[SCG_motoadve]

Im surprised no one mentions ETO (P47s P38s P51s) escort, straffing and patrol missions 

[150GCT_Veltro]

A so limited budget is something that really does worry a bit for the future..... G6 would be a payware DLC, with preorder. If this kinde of policy is not enough...really....

Edited December 5, 2016 by 150GCT_Veltro

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Its also resources / time not just funds. They are committed to building 10 planes already. Even if the payware can bring in new team members and get them up to speed quickly(which is doubtful), there is still an impact.

 

I want the G6 too, but you have to appreciate their situation.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Tripwire

[YoYo]

Thank You Bando for this summary.

I saw on YT the time - 3h, too mutch for me ;> .

Edited December 5, 2016 by YoYo

[ITAF_Rani]

TXS Bando...you made what I was looking for

[ShamrockOneFive]

A so limited budget is something that really does worry a bit for the future..... G6 would be a payware DLC, with preorder. If this kinde of policy is not enough...really....

 

I'm not too worried about it. From what I gather, we can continue on with the current model so long as sales remain roughly where they are right now. It seems to be working and the funds seem to be in place to continue but its never a surefire bet each time... rather its a baited breath and hope that things continue on. It says to me that they are making a profit but not a big one.

The Bf109G-6/La-5F would be a Collector Plane with pre-order. Very likely.

 

Its also resources / time not just funds. They are committed to building 10 planes already. Even if the payware can bring in new team members and get them up to speed quickly(which is doubtful), there is still an impact.

 

I want the G6 too, but you have to appreciate their situation.

 

Absolutely.

 

Likely the extra cash is helpful but not enough to support extra developers. People are always the most expensive (and most necessary) part of any project. 

[YoYo]

Pity only that for new models like P-39, Hs-129, A-20 we must wait near 1 year....  .

I think for example for BoM model it was faster. I enjoy now this book:

 

 

(I was the pilot of Aircobra on the eastern front, Jewgienij Marinski)

 

Regards!

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Most interesting plane to me is HS-129 . But the Bf-110G2 with it's big gun should be lots of fun...

[Sgt_Joch]

As I recall, Oleg also wanted to do a Korean Sim. 

 

The reason it would appeal to simmers is because the main fighters Mig-15 vs F-86 are fairly well balanced and there is a lot of hard data available, not as much as for current jets, but more than WW2 and all unclassified

 

"Mig Alley" was the last decent hardcore Korean jet sim. I spent many hours playing that one.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Sgt_Joch

[J2_Trupobaw]

 

July: Kuban map (without career mode, but there will be missions)

 

Oct: Yak 7B + open Beta of Kuban Career mode.

 

 

Anything on Career mode for Stalingrad and Moscow maps? Or life expectation of current campaign mode?

[ShamrockOneFive]

Anything on Career mode for Stalingrad and Moscow maps? Or life expectation of current campaign mode?

 

It wasn't mentioned but based on previous communications... I believe they will be replacing the whole system all at once. It may be technically the only way to do it anyways.

 

So the Kuban campaign system is more of a shorthand for the new updated campaign system that will cover all of the three games. My assumption and educated guess only.

[Pharoah]

what exactly do we get when the BOK beta comes out then? I was banking on the A20...now thats a whole 12 months away.  

[ShamrockOneFive]

what exactly do we get when the BOK beta comes out then? I was banking on the A20...now thats a whole 12 months away.

 

This is the order as it was presented at the Q&A (keeping in mind that this is tentative and schedules can change):

 

• December: Bf109G-4
• January: Bf110G-2
• February: He111H-16
• March: FW190A-5 with flight model fixes for the FW19A-3
• May: IL-2 Model 1943
• June: Spitfire V
• July: Kuban map (without career)
• October: Yak-7B + open beta on Kuban career
• November: A-20B + P-39L-1 + Hs129B-2 + new free historical campaign for Kuban
• December: Final release of Battle of Kuban

 

https://stormbirds.wordpress.com/2016/12/04/what-we-learned-from-the-il-2-december-qa-session/

 

So we'll start with some familiar aircraft at first and then we'll see the others later. As Jason explained, building a new aircraft takes a ton of work. The team is already working on the A-20B... but it will take from now until next November to get everything done on it and some of the other newer types. Even the Yak-7B, which you would think would be a bit easier with two other Yaks already in the game, is requiring mostly new work to be done on it. Lots of work for a small team to put together. Give them time. They deliver some really good looking aircraft!

[Pharoah]

TBH i feel a little duped after reading that release schedule. When you read 'pre-order now, release Dec' or whatever was on the email, you automatically assume you get a bunch of stuff...esp for a new DLC like BOK. When its really 'give us money so we can build it and release it over 12 months', its a bit deceptive. Sorry guys, but thats my take on it. I made a conscious decision to purchase BOK on the assumption I'd get to some (if not all) of the a/c and the map like in BOM, not be drip fed. 

 

Thats the last time I pre-order.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

TBH i feel a little duped after reading that release schedule. When you read 'pre-order now, release Dec' or whatever was on the email, you automatically assume you get a bunch of stuff...esp for a new DLC like BOK. When its really 'give us money so we can build it and release it over 12 months', its a bit deceptive. Sorry guys, but thats my take on it. I made a conscious decision to purchase BOK on the assumption I'd get to some (if not all) of the a/c and the map like in BOM, not be drip fed. 

 

Thats the last time I pre-order.

 

 

The way Kuban is being released is exactly how it was done with BOM as well? Perhaps you bought into BOM right at the end of the early access/preorder phase. You get to jump in the planes as they are ready. Some quick research into the BOM release would have given you the heads up regarding likely release schedules from initial pre-order stage.

 

This stuff doesn't just appear out of nowhere. Some of you have some pretty high expectations.

[YoYo]

Oct: Yak 7B + open Beta of Kuban Career mode.

 

Hi,

I'd like to know that is it concerns new kind of campaigns for BoM and BoS also?

Not earlier?

[Bando]

@Yoyo: Probably. It is not said in those exact words, but my assumption is that when the Campaign/Career mode gets modified for Kuban, it gets modified for BOS/BOM at the same time, for it is one single system.

[Asgar]

TBH i feel a little duped after reading that release schedule. When you read 'pre-order now, release Dec' or whatever was on the email, you automatically assume you get a bunch of stuff...esp for a new DLC like BOK. When its really 'give us money so we can build it and release it over 12 months', its a bit deceptive. Sorry guys, but thats my take on it. I made a conscious decision to purchase BOK on the assumption I'd get to some (if not all) of the a/c and the map like in BOM, not be drip fed. 

 

Thats the last time I pre-order.

How about next time you actually read what it says on the store page instead of accusing the devs of lying to you^^

[Dakpilot]

TBH i feel a little duped after reading that release schedule. When you read 'pre-order now, release Dec' or whatever was on the email, you automatically assume you get a bunch of stuff...esp for a new DLC like BOK. When its really 'give us money so we can build it and release it over 12 months', its a bit deceptive. Sorry guys, but thats my take on it. I made a conscious decision to purchase BOK on the assumption I'd get to some (if not all) of the a/c and the map like in BOM, not be drip fed. 

 

Thats the last time I pre-order.

 

To be fair the Email did say it was offering pre order for early access

 

" Beginning today you can pre-order BATTLE OF KUBAN PREMIUM EDITION for just $69.99 and gain entry into the Early Access program that begins this December. That means you’ll be the first to experience new airplanes, maps and other content to be included in our next exciting title in the Sturmovik series. The Premium Edition includes 8 awesome aircraft plus 2 Collector Planes – all at a discounted price! "

 

Italics in bold added by me to sentence above for clarity

 

​however I can understand the disappointment if you misunderstood, the way BoK is being rolled out is the same as was for BoS and BoM, as regards early access and aircraft availability

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Just wondering why the Bf109G-6 requires La-5FN? Wasn't the La-5F more prominent at 1943 early stages than the FN? And if they model G-6 as a flying brick like in all other sims up to date..go figure. Otherwise very nice summary, thank you for compiling it.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

S!

 

 Just wondering why the Bf109G-6 requires La-5FN? Wasn't the La-5F more prominent at 1943 early stages than the FN? And if they model G-6 as a flying brick like in all other sims up to date..go figure. Otherwise very nice summary, thank you for compiling it.

 

From what I heard both variants were developed at the same time, but I don't know if they were also deployed the same though. I guess it is mostly to have each side with their precious 1943 fighter. According to the IL-2 1946 info, the La-5F would have the clear rear vision, and the engine modification to use the previous max power of the La-5 now as continuous. The FN would have the more powerful engine with extra power as take-off power, so I guess that would be limited.

[Asgar]

I'm pretty sure Kuban was La-5F and La-5FN was Kursk

[Dakpilot]

I'm pretty sure Kuban was La-5F and La-5FN was Kursk

 

Correct, but 109G-6 was not really Kuban Air Battle either

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[=362nd_FS=Hiromachi]

 

 

Correct, but 109G-6 was not really Kuban Air Battle either

Which is not a problem really, we have premium packs for that kind of stuff. Based on the Q&A recording I feel like there is far less objections to G-6 than before, now the only real problem is where to put that aircraft due to extremely limited time Devs have.   

[Asgar]

G-6 and La-5F both arrived at Kuban. but i'm pretty sure the 5FN was never tehre

[216th_Jordan]

G-6 and La-5F both arrived at Kuban. but i'm pretty sure the 5FN was never tehre

As the 190A3 was not in stalingrad. They do derive from the actual theater sometimes with collector planes.

[Asgar]

it's a later design. at least the A3 was around at the time of BOS

[wtornado]

I think if they are struggling to sell a WW2 sim, they'd really struggle to sell a Korean sim, esp given that DCS already do the sabre and mig-15.

 

 

I think there's a general perception of DCS WW2 & DCS Korea as rather dead and lifeless, both in multi and single player. DCS Korea has no campaign, no active multiplayer, no period accurate map, no period accurate ground units, poor AI that use different FMs to the player, and disappointing damage models. ED has no public plans to change any of this.

 

I'm not sure 777 should feel threatened by DCS Korea.

Well personally I found the Korean war pretty interesting and learnt a lot about it making historical HSFX Co-ops  for it.

 

They still are very fun to fly.

 

It must of been horrible for the ground troops especially the Chinese counter offensive.

[216th_Jordan]

it's a later design. at least the A3 was around at the time of BOS

 

So was La5-FN with timeline of Kuban. Just saying. I would honestly prefer a different plane, but it's speculation anyway as it is unsure if those planes will be produced.

Edited December 7, 2016 by 216th_Jordan

[eRoN]

I'm personally disappointed with decision for pacific (and mostly korea after) rather than the Mediterranean and north Africa which have also never been done as far as im aware (altho Malta is coming in TF CloD soon i think at least).

 

I have a question if anyone could help me. I would like to pre-order BoK to have access to the g-4, but i recently bought BoS and BoM on the steam sale. Am i able to pre-order BoK without steam and have them all still sync up together?

 

And if so how will it work? Steam keys are different than direct 1C keys, and since BoK needs BoS proper (and BoM? at least i still want the planes), if i pre-order BoK won't it just be a waste of money since it won't sync up  with the steam versions i already have? If not can i translate my steam version keys to 1C proper keys?

 

Thanks.

[Asgar]

@@eRoN 

 

yes, you can pre-order BoK on the website. you login with the your IL-2 account anyway and it will sync

[II./JG77_Manu*]

So was La5-FN with timeline of Kuban. Just saying. I would honestly prefer a different plane, but it's speculation anyway as it is unsure if those planes will be produced.

 

Early La5FN had pretty much the same performance as La5F. In addition they had a lot of teething problems, like exhaust fumes in the cockpit, too much heat etc. During summer 43 there weren't built any in serial production, it really took off in November 43, and then took a while until the first "standard" versions went to the front in numbers, and the aircraft became significant, or even worth mentioning. So no, it really wasn't an aircraft from the timeline of Kuban.

Edited December 8, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[Dakpilot]

Early La5FN had pretty much the same performance as La5F. In addition they had a lot of teething problems, like exhaust fumes in the cockpit, too much heat etc. During summer 43 there weren't built any in serial production, it really took off in November 43, and then took a while until the first "standard" versions went to the front in numbers, and the aircraft became significant, or even worth mentioning. So no, it really wasn't an aircraft from the timeline of Kuban.

 

Except they were very clearly at Kursk in July 43, which fits the heavily argued timeline for justification of  Kuban with Bf 109 G6,

 

I always understood that the FN was the bigger (performance) leap with the F having more in common with the normal LA-5 engine but with better vis cockpit, but maybe I am not remembering clearly, did the supercharged direct injection Ash-82FN engine not debut at Kursk in significant numbers?

 

Let me be clear I am no proponent for La-5FN, La-5F is correct for Kuban, but you cannot have it both ways

 

there is confusion between what constitutes Timeline and Participating in a Battle, but you are being a bit misleading argueing heavily for one but discounting facts in another

 

according to you La-5 and Yak 1-69 should not have been in Stalingrad? or was I mistaken

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[II./JG77_Manu*]

I always understood that the FN was the bigger (performance) leap with the F having more in common with the normal LA-5 engine but with better vis cockpit, but maybe I am not remembering clearly, did the supercharged direct injection Ash-82FN engine not debut at Kursk in significant numbers?

1. is wrong. The F was the bigger leap, the FN started pretty much on par with the F, and got gradually better, but there was never a big leap.

2. if you call less then 30 aircraft "significant numbers"? OK 

No mass production before late autumn 43 https://books.google.de/books?id=Uzq3CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=la+5fn&source=bl&ots=DpHWIMowSS&sig=SUcjIojAJtSVkOGVj9JZFw-8bL4&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicp4L6o-TQAhUkAsAKHQk3DjIQ6AEIYTAJ#v=onepage&q=la%205fn&f=false

 

Comparing that with the G6 that was produced and used in the 1000s already in mid43 is quite off.

La5FN wasn't a mainstay fighter until mid 44. During Kuban even the normal La5 was present in bigger numbers then the La5F (hence the choice to not include it i guess). Now just directly jump to the La5FN, which didn't even fight at this map, or in significant numbers during that time anywhere in the world, seems just off. Also choosing an aircraft which could effectively only fly with open canopy would be an odd choice, should be then included the same way in the game. Including it's subpar performance compared to "standard LA5FN" built from November 43 onwards, or even later models.

G6 was at Kuban later in 43. G6 was a LW mainstay fighter in summer 43, little later in the eastern front.

 

according to you La-5 and Yak 1-69 should not have been in Stalingrad?

I don't know what this has to do with the matter, but both don't belong into Stalingrad summer campaign.

While we are complete off topic, weren't the Yak flaps supposed to be fine after you? "Used in combat"? Countless explanations why. Or the newest batch of 190? Countless explanations, like "light control forces" and other garbage..you are it, my dear cheers Dakpilot

Edited December 8, 2016 by II./JG77_Manu*

[Dakpilot]

Never ever said Yak flaps were fine, but many of the reasons that were said to be the issue were seriously factually wrong, this is what I argued for and got branded as a communist luftwaffe hater for it..go figure

 

Likewise for FW190, lots of the complaints were about things that were not relevant, and the extreme of some of the anecdotes used were ridiculous, some people going to lengths to say that accelerated stall was not an issue on FW190, these were what I argued, light control forces are a real factor of 190 and the fact that controls can exert much more G  than Russian fighters, a fact ignored by many in the long diatribes on how Russian FM was biased

 

4. Fw-190 and Bf-109 is very easy to be dived to negative stall, this not allows to perform "Hartman's negative G evasive".

- Yes, German planes have more negative controlability reserve, but this just means that they are achieving the same negative G loads with less negative pitch input. I've tested negative G for several planes in very fast and rought tests (can't be used for strict compare and so on) with push dive from level flight on 400 km/h IAS, 100% fuel with standart load, G achieved before stall:

Bf 109 F-4: -4g , after that it's stalls

Bf 109 G-2: -4g , after that it's stalls

Fw 190 A-3: -3g , after that it's stalls

LaGG-3 ser.29: -1g , can't achieve more AoA and G on max pushed stick pitch and trim

La-5 ser.8: -2g , can't achieve more AoA and G on max pushed stick pitch and trim

Yak-1 ser.69: -3g , can't achieve more AoA and G on max pushed stick pitch and trim

So, no any advantage of soviet fighters in negative G load is presented in the game.

 

I still am not sure of your figures that there were less than 30 La-5 with FN engines at Kursk..

 

However I will still say that the supercharged direct injection FN engine was the tech leap for the La-5 rather than the boost increase of the F

 

And I still agree that the FN is not for Kuban.

 

La-5's combat debut was 20 August 1942 with 287th Fighter Air Division, over Stalingrad.

 

Yak 1 with PF production started in june 42, it was there for majority of Stalingrad campaign

 

These were some of your arguments..

 

"This isn't really a valid argument. BoS campaign also starts in spring, and there was no Yak1 with PF engine, nor any La5, nor any Lagg3-pf in April 42. Not a single BoS fighter from the Russians was there irl."

 

Not very convincing when Stalingrad started in August 42 with the first air raids on the city. this info not not hard to come by, the game has had it in it since release

 

anyone can have wrong info, make a mistake or not have relevant knowledge, this is normal, but rarely if ever in your case will you concede it

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Dakpilot

[216th_Jordan]

How was the FN not a big leap? F and A version engines essentially had the same HP, FN engine had 150 HP more.

 

http://www.airpages.ru/eng/ru/la5fn.shtml

 

About the dates I am not yet educated enough, sounds legitimate.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I'm personally disappointed with decision for pacific (and mostly korea after) rather than the Mediterranean and north Africa which have also never been done as far as im aware (altho Malta is coming in TF CloD soon i think at least).

 

I would  have loved to have seen a MTO or North African campaign but it was explained in the first Q&A session in September why they were avoided.

It's because Team Fusion are already working on the theatre for "cliffs". While I'm not a massive Pacific fan I'm certainly looking forward to the finished product.

 

You can check out the first Q&A here:

 

    Edited December 9, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[LukeFF]

I don't know what this has to do with the matter, but both don't belong into Stalingrad summer campaign.

 

In the case of the La-5, you are entirely ignoring the fact they were at Stalingrad in late August 1942. Heck, I even included that fact in the manual and countered you on this before, but you didn't bother to reply.  Not to mention, Brano showed you were wrong about the Yak-1 right after my post. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

TBH i feel a little duped after reading that release schedule. When you read 'pre-order now, release Dec' or whatever was on the email, you automatically assume you get a bunch of stuff...esp for a new DLC like BOK. When its really 'give us money so we can build it and release it over 12 months', its a bit deceptive. Sorry guys, but thats my take on it. I made a conscious decision to purchase BOK on the assumption I'd get to some (if not all) of the a/c and the map like in BOM, not be drip fed. 

 

Thats the last time I pre-order.

 

You shouldn't have felt duped. They were very clear about it being early access in all of the materials and they also said that the first content would arrive in December - it wasn't long after they said that that they mentioned it would be the Bf109G-4. Jason and team have been very upfront about the whole thing.

 

It's also exactly the same format that was used for Battle of Stalingrad AND Battle of Moscow. I'm not sure if you were around for that but its definitely the model they have used. So the pre-order gets you the final product (good) and you get all of the stuff as its developed and finalized (great IMHO) and you don't have to wait. You didn't have to pre-order... I guess next time you'll wait.

 

S!

 

 Just wondering why the Bf109G-6 requires La-5FN? Wasn't the La-5F more prominent at 1943 early stages than the FN? And if they model G-6 as a flying brick like in all other sims up to date..go figure. Otherwise very nice summary, thank you for compiling it.

 

Some guys might be interpreting what was said in the Q&A wrong. Jason knows that lots of folks are interested in the Bf109G-6 and it certainly is part of the Kuban timeframe although really only at the end of it. To offer something complementary he recognizes that a La-5 of some kind would probably be a good counter balance. He said La-5F or FN in a offhanded way as if he wasn't exactly sure which was most appropriate. IMHO, its the La-5F that is likely most appropriate and I'm sure that if this plan went forward that it would be the model selected. The FN was just too rare of a beast at the time.

 

I'm personally disappointed with decision for pacific (and mostly korea after) rather than the Mediterranean and north Africa which have also never been done as far as im aware (altho Malta is coming in TF CloD soon i think at least).

 

 

Korea is not likely to happen after. What they said in the Q&A was that it was a dream that Han had. Not a development plan. They also said that it was something that they might do after a lot of WWII. Jason has emphasized in both Q&A sessions that WWII and all of the theaters in it are on their list of places they can and will go if development is allowed to continue.

 

Jason also mentioned that North Africa being done by Team Fusion was at least a part of their decision making process and they decided that the Pacific was a good place to go. I would very much like to see the team do Western Europe or North Africa over the Pacific, however, the Pacific theater is both a unique place to go in terms of aircraft/carrier battles and a smart business decision. A lot more of the North American audience is likely to jump in on a Midway battle.