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Bombing questions (Dive vs Level, German vs Russian)


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#1 Mukai

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 16:13

Hey guys, I got this game a while ago but had to shelve it because it kept crashing, seems to be in order again and I've started playing again.

I've been playing WOFF a lot, as well as a bit of 1946 and I've started to enjoy bombing a fair bit and wanted to get back to playing BOS. I can't seem to get used to the speed of dogfights and fighters in BOS so it feels right to start off bombing for now and get used to it and transition later. Admittedly I'm a bit intimidated of playing multiplayer (been simming offline for a long time now with woff) but I'm willing to give it a go, just don't yell too loud at me for screwing up constantly :P

I've a few questions:

1. Which is more effective in multiplayer or better all round? Dive bombing or Level bombing? What is more desirable and why? As i want to be effective and help out my team. Bear in mind none of my friends fly sims so I'd be all on my lonesome :( haha

2. Speaking of team, what side has the best/most fun bombers? Who do you recommend flying for?

3.What bombers are the best for each role and each side (have all current content)?

4. Any tips you can give me?

Thanks,

Mukai


Edited by Mukai, 29 November 2016 - 16:14.

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#2 L3Pl4K

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 17:10

1 :Level Bombing

+higher speed than at see level

+ Flak has more problems to hit your plane

+ most times your are safe, because the fighters do not see you

- needs time to climb

- for best efficiency you need a very good attack angle (longitudinal axis) to the target

Dive Bombing/ground attack

+ targets are easy to select

+ no climbing to high altitude

+fast bomb run

-you need fighters to destroy the flak

- without fighter support low chance to survive

2:

Luftwaffe

HE111

+greatest possible bomb charge 3,6t

+good defense arment

-slow

-low dive speed

- big bombs are most locked online

Ju88

+great possible  bomb charge 2,9t

+fast

+high dive speed

+ a pleasure to fly

-weak defense arment

-big bombs are most locked online

 

Red Army

PE2:

+very fast

+good defence arment

+pilot can fire guns

+very high divespeed

+pretty tought

-low bomb charge 1t

 

3:

He111 Level bombing only: big bombs+big target=Heinkelgeddon

Ju88 Level and dive bombling: maneuverable, fast, a pleasure to "fly"

Pe2 Dive and Level bombing: do not use very often, but i think like the ju88

 

4.

1 go to teamspeak and look for other players

2 if possible do not fly alone

3  level bombing, go greater altitudes

4 do not fly from airfield to the target in a straight line

5 pratice pratice pratice


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#3 Black_Sab

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 17:32

Great facts by L3PI4K, so I rather share my experience.

 

I fly the axis so I can only give you half of the story.

 

I started bombing runs online with the Ju-87. It was a good experience that kept me on bombing missions but the number of deaths from flak was frustrating.

 

So I learned the HE-111 and it's been great. The downside is that if you meet a single fighter, you are doomed. It's fragile and the defensive guns are worthless with an experienced fighter. So you have to take the time to climb high.

 

I've just recently updated to BOM so I have a few sorties of experience with the JU-88. It's way more faster than the HE-111 and seems a bit more capable for defense. Downside is the cockpit visibility during taxiing, take-off and landing.


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#4 Mukai

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 17:46

1 :Level Bombing

+higher speed than at see level

+ Flak has more problems to hit your plane

+ most times your are safe, because the fighters do not see you

- needs time to climb

- for best efficiency you need a very good attack angle (longitudinal axis) to the target

Dive Bombing/ground attack

+ targets are easy to select

+ no climbing to high altitude

+fast bomb run

-you need fighters to destroy the flak

- without fighter support low chance to survive

2:

Luftwaffe

HE111

+greatest possible bomb charge 3,6t

+good defense arment

-slow

-low dive speed

- big bombs are most locked online

Ju88

+great possible  bomb charge 2,9t

+fast

+high dive speed

+ a pleasure to fly

-weak defense arment

-big bombs are most locked online

 

Red Army

PE2:

+very fast

+good defence arment

+pilot can fire guns

+very high divespeed

+pretty tought

-low bomb charge 1t

 

3:

He111 Level bombing only: big bombs+big target=Heinkelgeddon

Ju88 Level and dive bombling: maneuverable, fast, a pleasure to "fly"

Pe2 Dive and Level bombing: do not use very often, but i think like the ju88

 

4.

1 go to teamspeak and look for other players

2 if possible do not fly alone

3  level bombing, go greater altitudes

4 do not fly from airfield to the target in a straight line

5 pratice pratice pratice

 

 

Great facts by L3PI4K, so I rather share my experience.

 

I fly the axis so I can only give you half of the story.

 

I started bombing runs online with the Ju-87. It was a good experience that kept me on bombing missions but the number of deaths from flak was frustrating.

 

So I learned the HE-111 and it's been great. The downside is that if you meet a single fighter, you are doomed. It's fragile and the defensive guns are worthless with an experienced fighter. So you have to take the time to climb high.

 

I've just recently updated to BOM so I have a few sorties of experience with the JU-88. It's way more faster than the HE-111 and seems a bit more capable for defense. Downside is the cockpit visibility during taxiing, take-off and landing.

Hey many thanks guys for the replies and thanks for the details L3PI4K! Greatly appreciated and gives me plenty of info to think on.

 

Black_slab do you mostly level bomb as the germans now?

Another quick question on dive bombing, I've seen tutorials on the Stuka where u get to about 90 degrees then drop ur bombs, but thats not really possible with the heavier bombers such as the ju88. Whats the protocol here? Dive at an angle towards ur target, but when do you know to drop your bombs to be the most accurate?


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#5 Mukai

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 22:52

My dive bombing seems to be very hit or miss (mostly miss) anyone got any tips for dive bombing in the PE or JU88?


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#6 Black_Sab

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 07:25

My dive bombing seems to be very hit or miss (mostly miss) anyone got any tips for dive bombing in the PE or JU88?

  

Hey many thanks guys for the replies and thanks for the details L3PI4K! Greatly appreciated and gives me plenty of info to think on.
 
Black_slab do you mostly level bomb as the germans now?
Another quick question on dive bombing, I've seen tutorials on the Stuka where u get to about 90 degrees then drop ur bombs, but thats not really possible with the heavier bombers such as the ju88. Whats the protocol here? Dive at an angle towards ur target, but when do you know to drop your bombs to be the most accurate?


Yes, I mostly do level bombing. I sometimes use the stuka as an attacker for moving targets when the actual map runs out of level bombing targets.

As for the angle, I dont do 90 degrees even in the stuka and I havent seen anyone doing it online. I approach at around 25-50 degrees. You have to place the crosshair over the target not on it. If you do a few practice runs you will learn it quite easily.
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#7 Mukai

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 12:58

  
Yes, I mostly do level bombing. I sometimes use the stuka as an attacker for moving targets when the actual map runs out of level bombing targets.

As for the angle, I dont do 90 degrees even in the stuka and I havent seen anyone doing it online. I approach at around 25-50 degrees. You have to place the crosshair over the target not on it. If you do a few practice runs you will learn it quite easily.

Ok so practise, practise, practise then :) I've managed to get reasonable hits on stationary targets last night so maybe I'm getting better :)
Do you find level bombing more effective? I mostly see people dive bomb. What bomb weight do you roll with for each target type?


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#8 Black_Sab

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 21:05

Yes, this sim is about practice for sure in all aspects. I believe that for dive bombing (not sure we are using this term correctly) you need to find the closest point you can get to the target while you can still pull up without hitting the ground and your bombs exposion dont damage you.

 

 

Well, level bombing is more effective in a way that you can destroy more targets with one run. But since it takes more time to get to altitude and complete a sortie overall, in the end effectiveness levels out between the two. Not sure but I believe allies do more dive bombing and axis do more level bombing online.

 

I usually take 2000 kgs of bombs. 2 pieces 1000 kgs in the HE111 and 4 pieces of 500 kgs in the JU88  


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#9 Mukai

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:43

Yes, this sim is about practice for sure in all aspects. I believe that for dive bombing (not sure we are using this term correctly) you need to find the closest point you can get to the target while you can still pull up without hitting the ground and your bombs exposion dont damage you.

 

 

Well, level bombing is more effective in a way that you can destroy more targets with one run. But since it takes more time to get to altitude and complete a sortie overall, in the end effectiveness levels out between the two. Not sure but I believe allies do more dive bombing and axis do more level bombing online.

 

I usually take 2000 kgs of bombs. 2 pieces 1000 kgs in the HE111 and 4 pieces of 500 kgs in the JU88  

 Thanks again black_sab, was on the wings of liberty server last night and managed to level my first objective (a railway) by level bombing in a he-111 thanks to your help :) And even made it back home and landed safe and sound haha 


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#10 deWaardt

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:46

For divebombing, don't forget to set a bomb timer of a few seconds. If you don't, you'll either blow yourself up or your bombs won't detonate. I use a 5 sec bomb timer, but 5 sec might be overkill. Not sure, it always works for me.


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#11 Mukai

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:43

For divebombing, don't forget to set a bomb timer of a few seconds. If you don't, you'll either blow yourself up or your bombs won't detonate. I use a 5 sec bomb timer, but 5 sec might be overkill. Not sure, it always works for me.

Yeah, I can say with some certainty that 1s wasn't enough as it caused the spontaneous combustion of my entire tail section haha Thought I had set it to 5s but i mustn't have accepted the changes.


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#12 Black_Sab

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 13:41

 Thanks again black_sab, was on the wings of liberty server last night and managed to level my first objective (a railway) by level bombing in a he-111 thanks to your help :) And even made it back home and landed safe and sound haha 

Sure no problem. And congrats for the good job on the server.

Those many fast little target destroyed notification beeps are quite addictive right? LOL

When I happen to take a fighter and hear someone else doing a good bomb run, I immediately go yellow with envy.


Edited by Black_Sab, 01 December 2016 - 13:42.

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#13 71st_AH_Scojo

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 18:46

Another quick question on dive bombing, I've seen tutorials on the Stuka where u get to about 90 degrees then drop ur bombs, but thats not really possible with the heavier bombers such as the ju88. Whats the protocol here? Dive at an angle towards ur target, but when do you know to drop your bombs to be the most accurate?

I've heard this from other pilots in almost every flight sim I've played and it works for me with decent success:

 

1) identify your target and then angle tward it and line up laterally (altitude, speed, and dive angle should be what's comfortable for your plane. Try different parameters and see what feels right)

2) place your target just under your crosshairs

3) continue aiming at the spot of ground your crosshairs were aiming at when you performed step 2. This will mean your target will start to move downward in your sights

4) once your target just disappears under your crosshair or gunsight, release

5) climb away

 

Practice a good bit and tweak this method until it works well for you. Also, as others suggested, you definitely need to set a timer over a second or two if you're using this method and releasing your bombs very close to the ground, which means your starting altitude is very low, or your attack angle is very steep.

 

Also, larger bombs and larger targets make this method easier :lol:

 

If anyone else has any other angle bombing recipes, I'd like to hear them. I also haven't seen official military media on the subject prior to computerized bomb targeting.

 

 Thanks again black_sab, was on the wings of liberty server last night and managed to level my first objective (a railway) by level bombing in a he-111 thanks to your help :) And even made it back home and landed safe and sound haha 

If I may:

How high did you climb?

How far out did you line up and begin to steer with your bombsight?

If your altitude was 4000km+ how did you manage to line up well enough before render distance with the bombsight?

 

At high altitudes I have a hard time lining up well enough and setting up my bombsight since targets seem to render after it's too late to make major correction.

 

Also, a fighter will always find me no matter how high I fly. It's hard to convince fighters to meet up with me for a long "boring" bomb run to escort and I'm not sure multiple He 111s together would deter a fighter like a B-17 formation would


Edited by Scojo, 19 December 2016 - 18:52.

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Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman.                                           — Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF

I mean, I had fast motor cars and fast motor bikes, and when I wasn't crashing airplanes, I was crashing motor bikes. It's all part of the game.      — Sir Harry Broadhurst, RAF, 12 victories WWII

Fighting in the air is not sport. It is scientific murder.                                                                                                                                                    — Captain Edward V. 'Eddie' Rickenbacker, USAS


#14 -IRRE-Centx

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 18:52

Also, as others suggested, you definitely need to set a timer over a second or two if you're using this method

 

5 seconds for Soviet bombs, always

 

Don't know why, but 1-2 seconds timer leads to a lot of non-exploded bombs, while 5 seconds timer they explode 100% of time.


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#15 Mukai

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 14:45

5 seconds for Soviet bombs, always

 

Don't know why, but 1-2 seconds timer leads to a lot of non-exploded bombs, while 5 seconds timer they explode 100% of time.

Oh is this why it was happening to me? I was running with a fuse shorter than 5s but none of my bombs were detonating, even though i made sure safeties were off and everything. Thanks for the heads up! :)


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#16 71st_AH_Scojo

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 15:33

5 seconds for Soviet bombs, always

 

Don't know why, but 1-2 seconds timer leads to a lot of non-exploded bombs, while 5 seconds timer they explode 100% of time.

I actually flew Soviet for the first time yesterday, and I thought the bombs were acting weird. Thanks for the tip!


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Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman.                                           — Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF

I mean, I had fast motor cars and fast motor bikes, and when I wasn't crashing airplanes, I was crashing motor bikes. It's all part of the game.      — Sir Harry Broadhurst, RAF, 12 victories WWII

Fighting in the air is not sport. It is scientific murder.                                                                                                                                                    — Captain Edward V. 'Eddie' Rickenbacker, USAS


#17 216th_LuseKofte

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Posted 21 December 2016 - 00:27

Dive bombing or Level bombing?

 

In a PE 2 I prefer Levelbombing if I spot the target soon enough, once you got the hang of it . It is pretty easy to hit the target and I survive most mission flown at altitude with this plane. On non GPS servers that is. In GPS servers my feeling is keep hugging the ground.  

I would choose to train offline on techniques for levelbombing, so it is learned. Dive bombing is always fun, can use your guns too then. It is really all up for what you want that moment when you log on


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#18 71st_AH_Scojo

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 18:32

In a PE 2 I prefer Levelbombing if I spot the target soon enough, once you got the hang of it . It is pretty easy to hit the target and I survive most mission flown at altitude with this plane. On non GPS servers that is. In GPS servers my feeling is keep hugging the ground.  

My first instinct is to say you have non GPS and GPS backwards. Can you explain what you mean? I find level bombing easier on GPS servers as I can line up with the target even if I can't see it out of my cockpit.

 

Does it have anything to do with fighters being able to navigate better at high altitude on a GPS server, making it easier for them to intercept level bombers flying high to a target?


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Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman.                                           — Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF

I mean, I had fast motor cars and fast motor bikes, and when I wasn't crashing airplanes, I was crashing motor bikes. It's all part of the game.      — Sir Harry Broadhurst, RAF, 12 victories WWII

Fighting in the air is not sport. It is scientific murder.                                                                                                                                                    — Captain Edward V. 'Eddie' Rickenbacker, USAS


#19 LukeFF

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 18:48

Tip: in the Ju 88, the horizontal stripe that runs across the top of the cockpit is designed to show the pilot the plane's optimal angle when dive-bombing.


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#20 andyw248

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 20:34

I also haven't seen official military media on the subject prior to computerized bomb targeting

 

 


youtube.com/watch?v=lOz_i_2USkY


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#21 71st_AH_Scojo

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 21:56

Awesome. Thanks!

 

Gonna have to grab some popcorn and a notepad


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Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman.                                           — Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF

I mean, I had fast motor cars and fast motor bikes, and when I wasn't crashing airplanes, I was crashing motor bikes. It's all part of the game.      — Sir Harry Broadhurst, RAF, 12 victories WWII

Fighting in the air is not sport. It is scientific murder.                                                                                                                                                    — Captain Edward V. 'Eddie' Rickenbacker, USAS


#22 Black_Sab

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 12:11

If I may:

How high did you climb?

How far out did you line up and begin to steer with your bombsight?

If your altitude was 4000km+ how did you manage to line up well enough before render distance with the bombsight?

 

At high altitudes I have a hard time lining up well enough and setting up my bombsight since targets seem to render after it's too late to make major correction.

 

Also, a fighter will always find me no matter how high I fly. It's hard to convince fighters to meet up with me for a long "boring" bomb run to escort and I'm not sure multiple He 111s together would deter a fighter like a B-17 formation would

 

I always plan my course before take off so I calculate wind direction and wind speed on the ground. I turn to the target around 2 squares - 20 kms - away. I only need to set the altitude and plane speed in this 20 kms because the rest was set on the gound. I may need to do some minor adjustments.

 

I try to climb as high as I can. Around 5k on average. On winter maps I check the lowest altitude the contrail shows and if it's not too low, I stop climbing before that. If too low, I try to climb very high 6k+.

 

I also try to approach my target in less populated areas - not through other targets where fighters may pick me even before I reach my target.

 

If a fighter finds me, probably I'm doomed in a HE. I have a slight chance in a JU88. 


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#23 =R4T=Sshadow14

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 14:05

He-111 is also fine for Suedo Dive bomber.
It can pull out of 60* Dives. and handling is just as good as 88 under 300kph. it also does better safe hammerheads,

He-111 can barrel roll, loop, hammerhead and split S without much issues. (tho if you fly inverted long enough the engines will stall)
Can also do Bombers Yo Yo

 


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#24 JimTM

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 16:07

Re. question #4 in the OP and level bombing in particular:

 

- Before you depart, set your altimeter to "nearest friendly airfield elevation" (see this post for details) and set your bombsight wind speed and wind angle for the planned bomb run on the target.

 

- Before you depart or well before the bomb run, set the bombsight altitude to zero and the bombsight airspeed to maximum.

 

  The altitude and airspeed settings just mentioned configure the bombsight view to the maximum distance, allowing you to make corrections well in advance.

  Even if the target is not rendered in detail yet, you can still aim toward the general terrain features where you know the target is located. When the target is rendered,

  in detail, you can then make the small corrections (using the keys for "Level flight AI-autopilot: left turn" and "Level flight AI-autopilot: right turn") necessary to hit it.

 

  Once you have lined up the target correctly, you can start to change the airspeed and altitude settings toward your actual airspeed and altitude. Make each change to keep

  the target in view. Make sure that you set the actual airspeed and altitude values once you are close enough to the target.

 

  Once you drop your bombs, you can then switch from the bombsight mode to the view mode in your bombsight and track the target to see bombing results.


Edited by JimTM, 16 January 2017 - 17:10.

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#25 =R4T=Sshadow14

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 12:59

Bombers Yo Yo.. (i made this a while ago for another game but it still works here. the official name for the manuvere i forgot)

Spoiler


Speeds listed are for jets but cut them in 1/4 for bombers in IL2 along with the climb out Alt and distance can be halved if not more.

HE-111 love this with initial speed on first pass between 500-550kph.

 


Edited by =r4t=Sshadow14, 30 January 2017 - 13:02.

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