Developer Diary, Part 140 - Discussion

[FTC_crane]

Thank you. Looking forward to the fixed 190.

[Turban]

Woot woot, the new skins look awesome     Thanks for that

 

As for the FM, congrats to the people who actually went and found relevant documents and sent them to the devs, that's how you do it  

 

As usual the devs show how much they care and work on this sim, huge props to them too    One step closer to reality is always good 

 

Curious about how it will affect the plane, looking forward to the change 

[Grancesc]

That goes both ways. Instead of complaining, all that had to be done was present data proving it was wrong. Most posts were not, they were simply whining and accusing the devs of bias.

 

It still won't be some uber plane, and I suspect even after this it still won't be good enough for the more vocal ones out there.

 

… and all the eternal status-quo-defenders at any cost will always pipe up in this forum.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

That DD made my week, many many thanks ! 

[Rabitzky]

 

I like this attitude and the new way of communication. This is a departure from the earlier, questionable, information policy on FM-topics. IMO, this is a very positive development of the whole 1C/777 team. My sincere respect goes to the FM-team of 1C/777 and big thanks to BlackDreizenhn, ATLAN, opcode and all others who have tirelessly been working to improve this Sim

Chapeau gentlemen !

 

 

+1  

[Caudron431]

This dev team: so strong, so awesome!

 

P.S. Roman, you know you rock.

[Adj]

Thanks for the update Roman.

Thanks also to the team and the the community members who work so hard to make this very good flight sim, even better.

[JG300_Olrik]

Good news. Amazing team. Thanks devs.

[SJ_Butcher]

well you promised to fix the FM I promised to buy the new game, so I will do it now, thanks for all.

[Art]

 

 

Full news - here is a full text and visual materials

You're very welcome to subscribe for new videos here

You can ask new questions in this thread

 

O finally! Thank you so much!!  Thank you Crump, Ze_Hairy and others!

Thank you devs., thank you Han! thank you Jason! I can be happy now

[3./JG15_Kampf]

Good news.Thank you Devs

Thanks the guys who found the documents. You may now have the "control" over fw190 again. We must not forget about diving speed and rolling rate. Waiting for the cavalry defense lol.

But today is feast day and feelings for fans of fw190. Good job. As written before, I am more anxious for spring than for DX11. lol

 

 

well you promised to fix the FM I promised to buy the new game, so I will do it now, thanks for all.

 I'm only going to buy it in the spring of 2017

[Grancesc]

Woot woot, the new skins look awesome     Thanks for that

 

As for the FM, congrats to the people who actually went and found relevant documents and sent them to the devs, that's how you do it  

 

As usual the devs show how much they care and work on this sim, huge props to them too    One step closer to reality is always good 

 

Curious about how it will affect the plane, looking forward to the change 

 

… and all the self-proclaimed experts will continue to preach their wisdom and will not have learned anything from this FW190 discussion.

[Dakpilot]

… and all the self-proclaimed experts will continue to preach their wisdom and will not have learned anything from this FW190 discussion.

 

Perhaps those who claimed FM revisions were 'balancing' or bias have learned nothing either 

 

or maybe progress has been made, trust has been gained, and an easier and less antagonistic future lies ahead, one can only hope  

 

Cheers Dakpilot 

[TG-55Panthercules]

Geez - yet another thread hijacked into a discussion of the FW's flight model - can we not just let one thread stay on topic??  Oh wait... never mind 

[Trooper117]

Come on mate... the Dev diary is all about the fm of which plane?

 

We can hope it continues along with a positive outlook... it's time to look forward, and hope next spring comes quickly lol!

Edited November 24, 2016 by Trooper117

[Dakpilot]

Come on mate... the Dev diary is all about the fm of which plane?

 

 

 

Fairly sure that was humour 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[StG2_Manfred]

Good news.Thank you Devs

Thanks the guys who found the documents. You may now have the "control" over fw190 again. We must not forget about diving speed and rolling rate. Waiting for the cavalry defense lol.

But today is feast day and feelings for fans of fw190. Good job. As written before, I am more anxious for spring than for DX11. lol

 

 

 I'm only going to buy it in the spring of 2017

 

Exactly, roll rate and dive speed are also questionable. Furthermore I still have in mind the last update of the 190, so I'm a bit suprised how grateful people are now, because they don't know yet the result of this announced overhaul. I'll wait until it's done and then decide what I do.

 

No I will do that the same amount of times sentences like this appear in this forum

 

Fix the FW or I wont buy the next pack, and you have absolutely no business correcting me, if you do not like what I write you can put me on the ignore list 

 

And it's not your business who wants to buy in or not, right. ehm, you can put me on your ignore list as well, of course.

 

… and all the self-proclaimed experts will continue to preach their wisdom and will not have learned anything from this FW190 discussion.

 

Some will never learn it. Even now when it is admitted that the current iteration is wrong  - embarassing.

[Turban]

… and all the self-proclaimed experts will continue to preach their wisdom and will not have learned anything from this FW190 discussion.

 

 

Well let's hope not, it was, after all, always simple : Can't prove anything without proof

[MadisonV44]

Sooo good, can't wait to test this new FM ! unfortunately I'm away from my PC for a long time, will have to wait ! 

 

Thank you so much Roman for taking in account those new data, and many thanks to the bunch of people who took the time to find and provide them ! 

For the first time we have a FW thread that won't be moved into the FM section 

[Beazil]

Yeah. When You will fly over Stalingrad, pls dont bomb my house

 

stalingrad.jpg

What if we just want to pop by for a visit? Now that we know where you live it should be a simple matter of just landing next to it. Then we can crack a few cold ones. S!

 

Great update.

[FlyingNutcase]

Thumbs up Roman!

Panzer - big thanks for your work.

 

Same sentiments here. Fine work all round. 

[E69_geramos109]

Exactly, roll rate and dive speed are also questionable. Furthermore I still have in mind the last update of the 190, so I'm a bit suprised how grateful people are now, because they don't know yet the result of this announced overhaul. I'll wait until it's done and then decide what I do.

 

 

Dont forget also to fix the 3D model of the lower part of the frontal glass bar.

[216th_Jordan]

I'm a bit suprised how grateful people are now, because they don't know yet the result of this announced overhaul. I'll wait until it's done and then decide what I do.

 

Quite simple: On their last correction they used the data from the french wind tunnel test, however the document was not complete so not showing that 1.17 clmax is an error because of the test circumstances. Before that patch a more or less generic clmax had been chosen (which was higher). So basically you can expect to get a better 190 than before the last patch. But yeah, this is of course an assumption.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Congratulation to my buddy, II/JG17_SchwarzeDreizehn and others on being recognized for their contributions. Looking forward to our upcoming Fw test drive. Well done and way to represent!

 

Oh yeah, thanks Devs

[ITAF_Rani]

Great great news..many thanks Dev.

Fw190 corrected soon will be another good boost for this sim...

Regards

[Plesski]

Maybe this may seem not connected but I just bought BoM. And I have my friend to buy BoM also.

 

Thanks for taking care. Everyone.

 

P.

[StG2_Manfred]

Quite simple: On their last correction they used the data from the french wind tunnel test, however the document was not complete so not showing that 1.17 clmax is an error because of the test circumstances. Before that patch a more or less generic clmax had been chosen (which was higher). So basically you can expect to get a better 190 than before the last patch. But yeah, this is of course an assumption.

 

I'm expecting it to become better, question is to what degree. Because what makes me wondering is when the french wind tunnel test data were used, nobody was questioning the result when it was incorporated into the game?

 

Another thing is the front vision. There were so many discussions about recfration which cannot be added to the game, but why not make the bars just thinner? It already was (slightly) done at the very beginning, when the internal 3D model of the cockpit view was somewhat changed to get a more real front vision. This change didn't take much time. If I remember correctly it was done within a couple of weeks. A lot here probably remember Nemesis and his superb work on this subject which explains the details much better. http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/9152-ultimate-fw190-photo-evidence-thread/?hl=%20refraction It's already more than 2 years old now.

[Voidhunger]

Bigger problem is bf109g2 frontal glass.

[TP_Jacko]

Thanks for the update Roman.

I appreciate giving information on the work involved with developing flight models there is a lot more to it than first appears to the uneducated.

I look forward to the day the forum is united in saying yep that is a fair simulation of the flight model for the aircraft based on the best knowledge we have.

 

Cheers

Jacko

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

Dont forget also to fix the 3D model of the lower part of the frontal glass bar.

 

The 3D model is technically right. What is not modelled is how the light interacts with the thick glass giving the refraction effect (making the pilot look through the bar). A similar thing happens with the armored glass panels in the IL-2 and Yak-1B, in game we can see their thick borders, hampering a bit the view, while the refraction would make them look like thin lines:

 

In game:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IRL:

 

 

 

 

 

I think they could change the modelling so even if it's technically wrong, they would appear accurate to how the human eye sees it.

 

[3./JG15_Kampf]

I'd like to know what the lift coefficient was before  changed to 1.17? It is possible to get the answer ,DEVS?

Edited November 25, 2016 by JAGER_Kampf

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I wouldn't. It would only set up a nearly non-germaine argument about milk spilled months ago. What would be the point? We know the current starting point and the potential end point. That is all we need until we can fly and test the newest iteration.

[Urra]

The 3D model is technically right. What is not modelled is how the light interacts with the thick glass giving the refraction effect (making the pilot look through the bar). A similar thing happens with the armored glass panels in the IL-2 and Yak-1B, in game we can see their thick borders, hampering a bit the view, while the refraction would make them look like thin lines:

 

In game:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IRL:

 

 

 

 

 

I think they could change the modelling so even if it's technically wrong, they would appear accurate to how the human eye sees it.

The wood filler block at the bottom of the left pane and the offset of the pane holder at the top, as well as the vertical supports on either side of the center pane, all give indication that you may be looking at a thin plexiglass replacement less then 1/2" thick only instead of the thick glass that was original. Would you have any photos of other original il2's?

[Lusekofte]

And it's not your business who wants to buy in or not, right. ehm, you can put me on your ignore list as well, of course.

 

Sorry I just take advantage of the upper hand, I enjoy the situation. But I pretty much is happy the FW 190 is giving a refurbishment. I think they will spend a lot of time with it too. just put yourself in my shoes for a moment, I have never involved myself in the FM discussion , but referring to it as useless have been too me a bridge too far. I have not to date been shot down in one. It is the best and fastest ground attack aircraft in this game, it is not useless, it is excellent. I believe there are many that want more than reality will give.  

I have not one time stated that its FM are good or bad, to me it is not relevant. It flies pretty historical  flown with bomber pilots. They never really pushed the limits or knew them

Edited November 25, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Corto]

Thank you for the update!

[StG2_Manfred]

Sorry I just take advantage of the upper hand, I enjoy the situation. But I pretty much is happy the FW 190 is giving a refurbishment. I think they will spend a lot of time with it too. just put yourself in my shoes for a moment, I have never involved myself in the FM discussion , but referring to it as useless have been too me a bridge too far. I have not to date been shot down in one. It is the best and fastest ground attack aircraft in this game, it is not useless, it is excellent. I believe there are many that want more than reality will give.  

??? Maybe I understood something wrong before (then I apologize) or I'm lost in translation now. I did not say it is useless, you brought up this uber term again.

Yes for god sake, make the FW 190 a yberplane so we can never read about it ever again

 

People here are always entitled as luftwhiners, or to want have uber planes, although when things are proven and quite clear. Btw, these are often the same people who expect that every claim has to be made in a polite manner. I agree and suggest they use the same politness when they disagree and bring prove for their claims as well.

 

Also I did not say that it isn't a good ground attack airplane. And sorry, when you write that you believe people want more than reality will give, what has this to do with the subject? Maybe you are right, maybe not, but it doesn't change the wrong things which should be fixed to get this sim closer to reality.

[JtD]

As far as I'm concerned, the PM's exchanged and now the result of reworking the FM again has completely restored my faith in a constructive dialogue with the developers. Which had been pretty much destroyed same time last year.

 

So, thank you for listening and looking forward to more!

 

----

What are the differences between the A3 and A5? Just looking to educate myself.

From a performance point of view, the major difference will be the change from cooling gills to adjustable radiator cowl flaps. Closing them will give the A-5 a good advantage in level speed over the A-3, somewhere in the range of 20km/h. The A-5 is slightly heavier than the A-3, so all other figures will be slightly worse, but that should hardly be noticeable. Edited November 25, 2016 by JtD

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

I'm happy to be flying this game at all..

[Lusekofte]

 

 

??? Maybe I understood something wrong before (then I apologize) or I'm lost in translation now. I did not say it is useless, you brought up this uber term again.

 

I just touch a sensitive spot not meant for anyone special, I really wish for this sim to be as good as it can be, included the FW 190, I think they will use a long time to get it right this time, to make sure . Because they do not want to hear about it anymore.  

[SOLIDKREATE]

Nice update, well worth the read.

 

SKINS: Put me in coach!