Developer Diary, Part 140 - Discussion

[TWC_Ace]

From me - yes. Bf110E-2, Bf109F-2 and Bf109F-4.

 

On 8 december I finally go home to Volgograd to my family from the north...

You meant Stalingrad. In our world at least. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

Great update and a great insight to some of the complexities of building the flight models around these aircraft.

 

Spectacular!

 

I look forward to flying the updated flight model!

[JG4_dingsda]

P.S. Dont sure what I will be able to do untill 7 december. On 8 december I finally go home to Volgograd to my family from the north, and as I didnt saw them from 1 february, I believe I will have very feiw time to paint something.

 

(As you know) I really like your skins, Panzer! What could be better than making them default? Enjoy your time with your loved ones when at home again!

 

+ Thank you for the update, Gavrick.

Edited November 24, 2016 by JG4_dingsda

[Danziger]

Great post, Roman. It was very interesting. I am very happy to have updates made by people in different departments explaining how they work. It helps us to know the team better as well as quiet down all the "bias" nonsense.

 

Great work for the community members who made this possible.

 

You see what could be accomplished if the rest of you would put down your pitchforks and do a little research

[LLv24_Zami]

Nice DD!!

 

Devs are doing the best they can using documents they have available and it`s not an easy job. I was one of those who felt that Fw-190 FM is not entirely correct atm. But this DD once again shows their commitment for FM`s to be as accurate as possible. Thanks for explaining the situation, you`re doing a great job 

 

Also thanks for all community members for those documents and skins, great work guys!

[216th_Peterla]

Thanks for the hard work team and Panzer.

Excited about those amazing skins.

[707shap_Srbin]

You meant Stalingrad. In our world at least. 

 

Yeah. When You will fly over Stalingrad, pls dont bomb my house

 

[Trooper117]

This update should make many, many people very happy.

What a fantastic and concise explanation from Roman, explaining not only that the FW 190 fm was wrong, but also why it was wrong, what information was missing to cause it to be so.

So many people I suspect will now be on tender hooks awaiting not only for the introduction of the A5, but for the corrected A3 to surface... well done!

[Gunsmith86]

Very well done and very good diary post thanks.

 

[Luftschiff]

Great news! Thank you, not only for adressing issues, but also for the very detailed and candid explanation. I have tried to stay out of the "discussions" re: the FW's FM because, while I felt that it was off in some regards, the discussion itself was often so ugly and acidic on both sides. To be honest had begun to fear that the sheer ugliness of the discourse would tempt you, the team, to steer clear of the topic. It seems I should have given your integrity more credit, and I can only applaud you!

 

The skins are a truly lovely addition as well. Between this and the new coffee machine at work, this is turning out to be a bloody good day!

Edited November 24, 2016 by Luftschiff

[Dakpilot]

I don't think anyone has said the community has done nothing to help the Dev's

 

In fact since the beginning there have been many instances of working relationships that have fixed many things with different aircraft 

 

even the FW 190 has seen the benefit of that (even if the most recent fix was flawed the intention was historical accuracy)

 

However the many vocal screams of Dev bias have done nothing to help the community, nor the now frequent "emotions" or "feelings" sarcasm posts..

 

It seems stupid to attribute the whole Dev team with an attitude from a single post aimed at a very specific point

 

congrats to Dev's and all who have contributed in a friendly way, hopefully this shows what can be achieved with co-operation, rather than simply shouting and demanding

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Jade_Monkey]

Great update, im sure it made a lot of people happy.

 

I love the new skins, but it would be great if we could also get more generic skins without numbers. Those are more useful when building missions. It doesn't look good when every plane in a flight has the same number.

 

Would it be possible to release versions of the new skins without numbers?

I agree, if the decal system cant be implemented, it would be nice to have generic and non-generic skins for the SP missions.

[Tomsk]

This is really great news, and it's fantastic to see such good clear communication from the dev team. Really looking forward to flying the A5 and updated A3, love the new skins too :-) 

[Sunde]

Outstanding devs, glad to know that this issue is finally being looked into.
On another note, i believe quite a few people can now look back at the FW190 discussions, and with a bit of luck, realize how wrong and stubborn they were... 

There will always be imperfections in this sim (as there is in any game), but to you who always look blindly to them, and attack anyone who look for improvements, you might be doing more harm than good. 

[MK_RED13]

Yeah. When You will fly over Stalingrad, pls dont bomb my house

 

stalingrad.jpg

 

Roger!!!  

[StG2_Manfred]

You see what could be accomplished if the rest of you would put down your pitchforks and do a little research

 

Same could be said about the opposite party, couldn't it. That this became toxic wasn't the the fault of the "so called" (offended) Luftwhiners, they were right, others were wrong - consider this.

 

I appreciate this diary but I'm honest, I stay carefully. A lot of things would have been avoidable if the overall attitude were more open from the very beginning. Well, in the end good news, we'll see what the result says.

 

.

[FuriousMeow]

On another note, i believe quite a few people can now look back at the FW190 discussions, and with a bit of luck, realize how wrong and stubborn they were... 

There will always be imperfections in this sim (as there is in any game), but to you who always look blindly to them, and attack anyone who look for improvements, you might be doing more harm than good. 

 

That goes both ways. Instead of complaining, all that had to be done was present data proving it was wrong. Most posts were not, they were simply whining and accusing the devs of bias.

 

It still won't be some uber plane, and I suspect even after this it still won't be good enough for the more vocal ones out there.

[SCG_motoadve]

Regarding the FW A5 there is one in flying condition not far from where I live.

 

http://flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=16

 

I can go setup a meeting and get info for you,if you want this please send me a PM.

[Gruber-H]

Amazing news guys! I'm more than pleased I preordered BoK, I fully trust the team in future projects. They're open, honest and very active in communicating with the fan base. Many thanks!

I bought some collector planes via the IL2 Store to celebrate/give you more of my money

Cheers

Hans aka Maple

[Sunde]

That goes both ways. Instead of complaining, all that had to be done was present data proving it was wrong. Most posts were not, they were simply whining and accusing the devs of bias.

 

It still won't be some uber plane, and I suspect even after this it still won't be good enough for the more vocal ones out there.

Completely agree that if one can get data, one should! However there are several things that could prevent people from getting actual RL data. So what? If you cant get all the numbers, you should not state that you think something is wrong? 

 

It also goes both ways, in the sense that if you think something is right, you should be able to prove it, right? I have never seen anyone prove that the FW190 was correct, they only claimed this. In the end it came out as it should, even if many people seemed so adamant in telling the luftwaffles how wrong they were. But here we are, will everyone be happy once the reworked 190 rolls out in the future? Unlikely... 

Edited November 24, 2016 by JG19_Mueller

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Interesting news. Really worth the wait. Very nice skins Panzerbär, enjoy your stay with the family.

[Jade_Monkey]

Completely agree that if one can get data, one should! However there are several things that could prevent one from getting actual RL data. So what? If you cant get all the numbers, you should not state that you think something is wrong? 

 

My problem was with HOW it was said, not WHAT was said.

 

I also thought the FM was very strange and likely not correct, but I could not tolerate the whining.

I blocked several people because all they did was whine and be defensive instead of contribute to improving the FM.

[Jsun-El]

What are the differences between the A3 and A5? Just looking to educate myself.

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

Awesome skins, nice work! Glad you will get some time home.

[LLv24_Zami]

It still won't be some uber plane, and I suspect even after this it still won't be good enough for the more vocal ones out there.

I disagree.

 

No one is expecting Fw-190 or any other plane to be invincible. So you can just drop it.

[JG13_opcode]

What are the differences between the A3 and A5? Just looking to educate myself.

They moved the engine ~15 cm forward, to allow more ordnance to be carried without adverse effect on the aircraft's centre of gravity.

 

IIRC, it's still powered by the BMW 801D-2 and some A-5s had MW50 installed which would deliver something like 1900 horsepower. Doubt we'll see that in-game though.

 

edit: Apparently they also added an electronic artificial horizon, which is cool. Basically it's a fancier A-4.

Edited November 24, 2016 by JG13_opcode

[Asgar]

They moved the engine ~15 cm forward, to allow more ordnance to be carried without adverse effect on the aircraft's centre of gravity.

 

IIRC, it's still powered by the BMW 801D-2 and some A-5s had MW50 installed which would deliver something like 1900 horsepower. Doubt we'll see that in-game though.

 

edit: Apparently they also added an electronic artificial horizon, which is cool. Basically it's a fancier A-4.

the MW50 190 would actually fit the timeline of BoK IIRC

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

Outstanding! Great news.

[Dakpilot]

 

It still won't be some uber plane, and I suspect even after this it still won't be good enough for the more vocal ones out there.

 

 

I disagree.

 

No one is expecting Fw-190 or any other plane to be invincible. So you can just drop it.

 

If you disagree, then the comment clearly was not aimed at you,   it is not an unreasonable supposition that some ( a very small minority) people have unrealistic expectations of what the FW 190 really was like, especially when reading some of their posts

 

This from an FW 190 "fan"

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Blitzen]

I admit to being a bit of a light weight FW whiner...I never did well with the plane with my FFB stick ...I even bought a KB stick which did a little beter with its FM, esp if I played a bit with "Settings",but by in large I just stayed away from the FW unless I wanted a real challenge. I was always a bit put off because my experience seemed so at oods with the accounts of pilots who flew it & liked it back in the day.Now I don't want to start that whole discussion again here ..I really don't !

  What I do want to say is that this latest news impresses me in a couple of ways: first that the developers are taking a second look at this apparent issue( they could have just said "we have it right & we are not going to do another thing!") and second they are going to do something about it.The research into the FM and then the effort being made to get things right ( if only in a flight sim ) is indeed gratifying...my hat is off to you!

( I did wonder if the flight characteristics on the 'brand new " FW-190 A's being produced in kit from in Germany today  have been examined & are any use to the 777 crew?)

Edited November 24, 2016 by Blitzen

[JG13_opcode]

the MW50 190 would actually fit the timeline of BoK IIRC

Well, as I understand it the MW-50 on the A-5 was an experimental installation that did not see widespread operational service.

[Luger1969]

Gavrick a great update. Thank you this 1 is really appreciated.

[216th_Jordan]

Yeah, lets bury that whole complaining about the past who was right or wrong thing. 190 gets corrected and everybody should be happy.

And this should be an example for how to deal with future issues in this sim. (research)

[LLv24_Zami]

If you disagree, then the comment clearly was not aimed at you,   it is not an unreasonable supposition that some ( a very small minority) people have unrealistic expectations of what the FW 190 really was like, especially when reading some of their posts

 

This from an FW 190 "fan"

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Well I answered it anyways .

 

If that supposition is true, then same goes for the opposite side. It can be said that people who argued that nothing is wrong with the current Focke Wulf FM had really unrealistic expectations of what Fw-190 can do.

 

I just think it would be better to drop all that `people are going to complain anyways because they wan`t uber uber uber` nonsense and be happy that we get updates to the FM. We will see what comes out of it in next spring 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Zami

[WWChunk]

Many, many thanks to the members that contributed the relevant info, and to the devs who looked at it and realized a change was in order. Looking forward to the revised flight model.

[ST_ami7b5]

Thumbs up Roman!
Panzer - big thanks for your work.

Edited November 24, 2016 by ST_ami7b5

[A-E-Hartmann]

really good news .

[Grancesc]

I like this attitude and the new way of communication. This is a departure from the earlier, questionable, information policy on FM-topics. IMO, this is a very positive development of the whole 1C/777 team. My sincere respect goes to the FM-team of 1C/777 and big thanks to BlackDreizenhn, ATLAN, opcode and all others who have tirelessly been working to improve this Sim

Chapeau gentlemen !

[URUAker]

Thanks to all involved!

[[DBS]El_Marta]

Can't wait. Winter has not even started .