So... I picked that fresh new Yak-1b...

[GridiroN]

Watching people argue in broken English is super hilarious, not gonna lie.

[Zygiert]

Watching people argue in broken English is super hilarious, not gonna lie.

At your service.

[Sunde]

Watching people argue in broken English is super hilarious, not gonna lie.

I would love to see you argue in a foreign language, bet i'd laugh my ass off as well. .

[Crump]

The FW190, well, let's not get into that. All I'll say is after flying it exclusively for a month, it's not as bad as some people claim, but I do think the stall is exaggerated. 

 

They band-aided the FM in 2.004 so it will be more enjoyable and closer to what it should be until they can rework it.  The notes point out the "angle of attack" was adjusted.  Coefficient of lift and angle of attack have a fixed relationship.  That is part of the solution but the FM will be reworked completely when the FW-190A5 comes out. 

 

So...all in all...good news for the FW190.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Crump

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

So...all in all...good news for the FW190.

Good job sir, you among others is the most tireless in these crusades .

[Crump]

Thanks Tomcat but it wasn't just me.  

 

 

It was a whole lot of folks who contributed information and support.  The Dev team most of all deserves credit.  If they had not listened to the information the community was giving them, nothing would have changed.

[LLv34_Taku]

So I just acquired the new Yak, tried it for 10 minutes at Berloga circus. Feels pretty good, I put radiators to 30/30 and with full power it ran quite long before overheating. Seems to keep its speed really well through maneuvers, how do you guys make those really tight turns with this bird? Cut the throttle and/or reduce RPM a bit? Flaps seem to help tight turning quite a lot... And how about when flying really fast, is it good idea to reduce RPM a bit when doing 500+ kph?

[150GCT_Veltro]

Thanks Tomcat but it wasn't just me.  

 

 

It was a whole lot of folks who contributed information and support.  The Dev team most of all deserves credit.  If they had not listened to the information the community was giving them, nothing would have changed.

 

Indeed.

Thank you anyway Crump.

[Irgendjemand]

 

 

how do you guys make those really tight turns with this bird?

 

I am by no means a YAK specialist. But I took her for a few swings and there is nothing to be learned with this bird IMHO. Just yank her around and pull the stick to your stomach till blackout. Doing so i hardly ever experienced anything even remotely close to a stall.

 

Not saying this is wrong or right thou.

[Matt]

They band-aided the FM in 2.004 so it will be more enjoyable and closer to what it should be until they can rework it.  The notes point out the "angle of attack" was adjusted.  Coefficient of lift and angle of attack have a fixed relationship.  

 

They changed the angle of attack limit the AI would use. The FM was not changed at all, only the AI routine.

[LLv34_Taku]

 

I am by no means a YAK specialist. But I took her for a few swings and there is nothing to be learned with this bird IMHO. Just yank her around and pull the stick to your stomach till blackout. Doing so i hardly ever experienced anything even remotely close to a stall.

 

Not saying this is wrong or right thou.

 

 

Yeah well but when flying fast the plane doesn't bleed speed too much which means the turning radius isn't that tight. But I see people making all kinds of really tight turns and snappy rolls with this, I would like to know is there any tricks to do these. Like changing RPM in certain situations or when to drop flaps etc...

[Irgendjemand]

Someone else gotta chime in there.

What I can add:
I just dump flaps if I want to turn even tighter. When your speed is same or less than the plane you try to follow youll be outturning it. Doesnt matter wich german plane. You can outturn them all if you go same or lower speed.
I leave RPM max all the time and only regulate with throttle only. Flaps out when you need to slow down or turn tighter.

 

[Crump]

 

 

They changed the angle of attack limit the AI would use. The FM was not changed at all, only the AI routine.

 

That is what I thought too but I read the news for 2.004 and it seemed to indicate that the AoA applied to the FW-190 FM too.

 

It has been easier to transition from one direction to another in the FW-190.  It was extremely noticeable in 2.004 and reduced slightly in 2.005.

 

I was working on doing hammerheads but was unable to do one in the FW-190A3 in version 2.005 whereas I could in 2.004.

[Matt]

 

 

I leave RPM max all the time and only regulate with throttle only. Flaps out when you need to slow down or turn tighter.

 

At low altitude (not sure up to which altitude exactly), 2550 RPM gives the highest performance. So at low altitude, you should not run maximum RPM,  even if the performance gain is small.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

That is what I thought too but I read the news for 2.004 and it seemed to indicate that the AoA applied to the FW-190 FM too.

No, that question was specifically asked and devs said explicitly NO FM change

[Asgar]

@@Han 

 

do you think we can have that secret internal information now? 

[Dakpilot]

Already given...

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Crump]

Already given...   Cheers Dakpilot

 

I do not think it has been given out to the community yet. 

They changed the angle of attack limit the AI would use. The FM was not changed at all, only the AI routine.

 

 

It is Han that said they adjusted it and it will be reworked when the FW-190A5 comes around.

 

 

Turning facts as you like - it's your strong ability.

 

Fw190 was adjusted and will be adjusted again by additional source documentation appearing. Huge work was done to confirm that german test data (which was used before) is wrong and it is wrong to lower side.

 

And one more "turning facts" from you - not ONLY Yak-1 flaps drag was adjusted, but all airplanes of the project have had correction to lift/drag in landing configuration.

 

 

 

Or did I misunderstand something?

Edited November 18, 2016 by Crump

[Turban]

@@Han

 

do you think we can have that secret internal information now? 

Information was A5 to be released spring 2017. If all goes according to plan.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Watching people argue in broken English is super hilarious, not gonna lie.

 

*Not gonna lie, watching people argue in broken English is super hilarious.

[Dakpilot]

I do not think it has been given out to the community yet. 

 

 

It is Han that said they adjusted it and it will be reworked when the FW-190A5 comes around.

 

 

 

 

Or did I misunderstand something?

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26139-new-yak/?p=411334

 

Many hours ago

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Crump]

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/26139-new-yak/?p=411334

 

Many hours ago

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

I saw that.  You do understand that it is extremely difficult to do anything but band-aid the FM now?  It will require a complete rework.  As I understand it, they adjusted it to at least make it more realistic in the short term and will do a complete rework of it when they do the FW-190A5.

 

 

 

Han plainly stated:

 

 

 

Fw190 was adjusted and will be adjusted again by additional source documentation appearing.

 

Which I assume is in the context of the current FM and NOT referring to months past adjustment to improve the climb.

 

A quick band aid to make the FM more realistic is both reasonable and makes sense until the FM can be finalized.

 

Your interpretation of that sentence is that nothing has been done and nothing will be done until the FW-190A5 comes out.  

 

Either way could be correct without clarification and only the devs know.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

Nothing has been done since the latest change in spring 2016.

Feel free to ask the devs again, but the question about the 190 FM change was asked after every release since that notorious change and was always answered with "no changes"

Edited November 19, 2016 by II/JG17_SchwarzeDreizehn

[GridiroN]

I would love to see you argue in a foreign language, bet i'd laugh my ass off as well. .

 

Meine kugelschreiber ist kaputt! ...Es Ist zehr kalt! That's...about the extent of my German lol. 

 

They band-aided the FM in 2.004 so it will be more enjoyable and closer to what it should be until they can rework it.  The notes point out the "angle of attack" was adjusted.  Coefficient of lift and angle of attack have a fixed relationship.  That is part of the solution but the FM will be reworked completely when the FW-190A5 comes out. 

 

So...all in all...good news for the FW190.

 

Very interesting. I don't think I've played it since 2.004. I'll try it out again. 

 

*Not gonna lie, watching people argue in broken English is super hilarious.

 

That's not any more correct, on a colloquial forum. 

[L3Pl4K]

 

 

Meine kugelschreiber ist kaputt! ...Es Ist zehr kalt! That's...about the extent of my German lol.

 

Mein Kugelschreiber ist kaputt! ...Kauf dir einen neuen.

Es Ist sehr kalt! Zieh dir warme Kleidung an, oder dreh die Heizung auf.

[Crump]

 

 

was always answered with "no changes"

 

LOL....like "you is wrong" 

[BlitzPig_EL]

I took the 1b out this morning offline on the Moscow Autumn map for a good check ride and to joust with F4s a bit.

 

It is a very good handling aircraft, perhaps now my favorite in the sim.  She is wonderfully maneuverable and in general easy to manage, though you do have to be careful in a knife fight as the stall, while recoverable, can be problematic owing to it's horsepower deficit compared to the 109s, and of course it lacks the 109's leading edge slats.  It was fun twisting and turning with an AI F4 below 2300 meters.  I purposely did not take some shots so I could continue the fight to see how I could counter the 109 with just the aircraft and not it's guns.  At one point my computerized adversary decided he had enough and poured on the coals and just extended away after breaking off from a scissoring session with me.   This is still the 109's ace in the hole.  It can disengage at will and just run away to set up a better circumstance for itself.   After it did that I took off the gloves and used the guns.  We merged at about 2500 meters.  the F4 had a slight alt advantage, but I managed to dodge his head on shot and after some more twisting about got a good deflection shot with the UBS in the left radiator.  I was then better able to get on his six and applied the coup de grace with both the UBS and the 20mm.

 

Certainly a good human pilot would have been a far far tougher fight, but this little session does give me an indication of how the Yak behaves near the edges of it's envelope, which is a start in any case.   I then did touch and goes and several landings and takeoffs to get more feel for the thing.   In short it offers little drama and is quite good on the ground as well.   I just need to learn to get the settings correct to achieve higher straight line speeds.

 

So is the Yak 1b an uber world beater?  No.  Not even close.  It is still slower than the 109s it will face, but it is currently the best tool in the VVS tool box, and it's performance, except for straight line speed is fairly easy to find and use.

 

 

Well done dev team.

Edited November 19, 2016 by BlitzPig_EL

[3./JG15_Kampf]

Han plainly stated:   Quote     Fw190 was adjusted and will be adjusted again by additional source documentation appearing.   Which I assume is in the context of the current FM and NOT referring to months past adjustment to improve the climb.   A quick band aid to make the FM more realistic is both reasonable and makes sense until the FM can be finalized.   Your interpretation of that sentence is that nothing has been done and nothing will be done until the FW-190A5 comes out.     Either way could be correct without clarification and only the devs know.

Crump my understanding is: Fw 190 had an FM that was changed with the appearance of a document in the Chalais Meudon wind tunnel (Fw190 was adjusted). Now they will adjust again in the spring of 2017,together with the release of A5 (and will be adjusted again by additional source documentation appearing)

Is it possible to know which documents are going to be used now (FM 2017) and who were the people who found such documents?

Edited November 19, 2016 by JAGER_Kampf

[Crump]

 

Crump my understanding is: Fw 190 had an FM that was changed with the appearance of a document in the Chalais Meudon wind tunnel (Fw190 was adjusted). Now they will adjust again in the spring of 2017,together with the release of A5 (and will be adjusted again by additional source documentation appearing)

Is it possible to know which documents are going to be used now (FM 2017) and who were the people who found such documents?

 

 

 

That could be it.  Perhaps some customer service will appear and explain it in further detail?

[GridiroN]

Mein Kugelschreiber ist kaputt! ...Kauf dir einen neuen.

Es Ist sehr kalt! Zieh dir warme Kleidung an, oder dreh die Heizung auf.

 

Yea...totally...!

[Irgendjemand]

 

Crump my understanding is: Fw 190 had an FM that was changed with the appearance of a document in the Chalais Meudon wind tunnel (Fw190 was adjusted). Now they will adjust again in the spring of 2017,together with the release of A5 (and will be adjusted again by additional source documentation appearing)

Is it possible to know which documents are going to be used now (FM 2017) and who were the people who found such documents?

 

Thats how I understand it as well.

Sadly the FW stays as is until spring. But hey. If they make it right then - I am all fine.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

 

Crump my understanding is: Fw 190 had an FM that was changed with the appearance of a document in the Chalais Meudon wind tunnel (Fw190 was adjusted). Now they will adjust again in the spring of 2017,together with the release of A5 (and will be adjusted again by additional source documentation appearing)

Is it possible to know which documents are going to be used now (FM 2017) and who were the people who found such documents?

 

They now have the full report of the Chalais Meundon wind tunnel test (including the part menitoning the measurement errors and comparing them to similar german test data). Furthermore Phenazepam requested a document about the Fw190 wing construction which they reccieved from a comunity researcher: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/25504-moderators-please-lock-thread/page-3?do=findComment&comment=399140

Edited November 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[3./JG15_Kampf]

 

 

They now have the full report of the Chalais Meundon wind tunnel test (including the part menitoning the measurement errors and comparing them to similar german test data). Furthermore Phenazepam requested a document about the Fw190 wing construction which they reccieved from a comunity researcher:

Thx 5tuka 

[Turban]

If the FW gets anymore drag it's going to be in a bad place.

Let's wait and see but I'll start making reserves of pop corn ..

[Sgt_Joch]

I don't own the Yak-1b so cannot comment on its in game performance...yet. 

 

However, looking at the specs and screenshots, it is not what is traditionally referred to as the Yak-1b. Again Soviet nomenclature is fuzzy since they were not anywhere as precise as the Germans in naming AC versions.

 

What is usually referred to as the Yak-1b was a mod of the regular Yak-1 rushed into service at the height of the battles over Stalingrad. It had the tear drop canopy, but was lightened to improve performance, including only having 1x20mm cannon as armament. It also had a revised control column more similar to the one in the 109. Because of its lighter weight, it was more acrobatic with a high climb rate (i.e. 4.7 min to 5k as opposed to around 6 mins. for the s.69). Its historical reputation is more due to the fact that they were generally handed out to the best Soviet pilots.

 

What we have in game is the early 1943 production model Yak-1. It incorporated many of the innovations of the Yak-1b, like the tear drop canopy, but had a heavier armament. Among the improvements were more aerodynamic skin/piping; pressure bulkheads and a retractable tailwheel. The weight was heavier than the "Yak-1b", i.e. 2,900kg vs 2780kg, but a bit less than the s.69 (2,917 kg.), so performance was similar to a s.69, ie. speed: 523 kmh@sl/590 kmh@ 3.8kmh/climb rate 5.6 min to 5k.

 

so the s.127 is about 10 kmh faster and can climb around 1/2 minute faster to 5 km than the s.69.

 

The biggest difference was in the engine cooling. Cooling in the s.69 was inadequate and it would quickly overheat at full power (like in the game). The s.127 had improved oil cooling so it should be possible to run at 100% power longer without overheating.

 

As mentioned, it was a early 43 model, I don't have the exact introduction date, but it is more of a late Stalingrad/ Kuban era plane.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Sgt_Joch

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

The first aircraft were delivered in February 1943

[Trinkof]

Combat tested with 2 units stalingrad and kalinin front devember 1942 until January 1943 (58 aircraft, who managed to score 25 kills for 6 losses , not absolutely sure on this, but ratio is in this area)

 

EDIT : Link with units regarding combat test : http://ram-home.com/ram-old/yak-1b.html

 

All factories converted on yak 1b in October 1942.

 

Operational use in large number March 1943.

Edited November 25, 2016 by LAL_Trinkof

[Sgt_Joch]

well again that is the problem with the fuzzy Soviet nomenclature:

 

-officially every Yak-1 was just a Yak-1;

 

-the series number like s.69 or s.127, were not series as we understand it, but referred to "production batches", i.e. order to a factory for a specific number of AC. 

 

-the Yak-1b designation was unofficial, it was used as a blanket term for all Yak-1s with the tear drop canopy, but it was not used consistently even by Russian authors.

 

so back to the site linked above, our Yak-1b is not the one they refer to as the Yak-1b, but the variant just after which is called "Yak-1 with improved airdynamics":

 

http://ram-home.com/ram-old/yak-1improv.html

 

 

Improvements discussed here were introduced in mass production starting from 111th batch (December 1942) until the last 192th batch that rolled out in July1944, totaling 4461 aircraft.

 

so considering p.b. 111 was built in dec, 42 and p.b. 192 in july 44, (20 months), series 127 was probably built in march-april 1943?

Edited November 25, 2016 by Sgt_Joch

[Dakpilot]

From same site (about Yak 1)

 

"Since March 1943  (127th batch)  ShVAK was increased from 120 to 140 rounds and UBS from 200 to 240."

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[LLv34_Untamo]

S!

 

Did some tests with a friend, 109G2 vs. Yak-1b. The G2 could not out climb the the Yak, unlike the specs suggest. The G2 should have +5m/s climb rate on all altitudes. Went from the deck to 6km, both climbing at optimal 270km/h. The Yak stayed glued on the G2. Any similar observations?

 

EDIT: Cleared bad engrish a bit.

Edited March 31, 2017 by LLv34_Untamo