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Lorenz navigation?


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#1 bogdmaster

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 00:19

Hello guys,

 

I considered this the right section to post this, sorry if I did wrong.

 

I noticed that in BoS there isn't an ILS gauge in the cockpit of the Luftwaffe planes I flew so far.

Since I have acces only to the standard BoS planes, my question is: Is there any ILS system in BoS/BoM?

 

220px-Bordpeilger%C3%A4t_Peil_G_6.jpg 240px-ILS_gauge.svg.png

 

If there isn't this system implemented then I'm suggesting it.

 

As benefits there would be: making the game more accurate (since the gauge was present in most of the cockpits among Luftwaffe's planes, and some planes of the VVS had an ILS too) and bringing the simulation process to a higher level.

 

 


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#2 -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 02:36

The Bf-110 has it in BoM. The Bf-109 and Fw-190 got it in later versions than the ones we currently have. You can identify the circular antenna in the fuselage.

 

Bf-109 G2 without

 

Spoiler

 

Bf-109 G10 with it behind the cockpit.

 

Spoiler

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#3 -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 04:20

There is no ILS system in any of the planes in BoS or BoM, but there is a homing beacon indicator in some of the planes. The left-hand instrument that you show is a homing beacon indicator. The vertical needle shows whether the beacon is on your left or right. The horizontal needle shows how far away the beacon is (top=0 km, middle=30 km, bottom=60 km).

 

That system functions like an ILS as well, allowing to do night landings, when selected a landing beacon.

 

Here is how it's implemented in IL-2 1946

 

youtube.com/watch?v=sWrUnwHc4Kg

 

Starting from 4:00 you can see the ILS in action, before that it's just non directional beacon navigation as we have it in BoM/BoS.


Edited by SuperEtendard, 05 November 2016 - 04:34.

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#4 6./ZG26_Asgar

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:29

i really hope we'll get a full implementation at some point


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#5 LukeFF

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 20:22

The Ju 87, Ju 88, He 111, Bf 110, Yak-1, La-5, and Pe-2 all feature radio navigation equipment.
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#6 55IAP_Lucas_From_Hell

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 21:03

Yak-1, La-5*

 

Just remember to pick the RPK-10 among the loadouts before you take-off.

 

It's this thingy here (image not mine):

 

Bo_S_Rpk_10_Lagg_5.jpg


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#7 Monostripezebra

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 21:31

hint: take a look in the heinkels cockpit..


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#8 Sokol1

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Posted 07 November 2016 - 23:04

Beacon's work in simplified (game) way, no selectable frequency, the near Beacon is tuned automatically.

 

The AFN-2 or RPK needle always point for antenna and not for signal beam, so there's no inversion in the reading if you overfly the beacon antenna (who use this in IL:46 know about).

 

Some insights in this topic, like range for various planes.

 

http://forum.il2stur...con#entry331780

 

Available in QM, in MP is required that mission makers add Beacon in their maps.


Edited by Sokol1, 07 November 2016 - 23:07.

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... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#9 FlyingShark

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 00:33

It would maybe be an idea if they would let us choose between home base or nearest base.

Maybe with a drop down menu like with the pilot gestures from the same tilde button where you could than choose the option.

That way it keeps things simple for general public and people who like realistic navigation without the need to model all the tuning and stuff.

I also think of asking the morse signal to the home base the same way for planes that have a radio.

 

:salute:


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#10 II./JG77_Kemp

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 06:53

I hope they will implement something similar that we had in IL2 1946 at some point. Learning the radio navigation and blind landings was an interesting part of it and it was also cool to be able to tune in to different radio stations and listen to their broadcasts while flying.


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#11 Lofte

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 08:04

Is there any ILS system in BoS/BoM?

 

No. There are only omnidirectional beacons in the game. If you speak Russian you can read this document (pdf) about radio devices on german planes (if you don't - you just could enjoy pictures)


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Sorry for my English. I hope it's better than "google translate"...


#12 bogdmaster

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 21:03

Thanks everyone for clarifying this to me

 

I hope they will implement something similar that we had in IL2 1946 at some point. Learning the radio navigation and blind landings was an interesting part of it and it was also cool to be able to tune in to different radio stations and listen to their broadcasts while flying.

 

I too loved the radio navigation/broadcast in 1946, it was a really nice feature

 

 

No. There are only omnidirectional beacons in the game. If you speak Russian you can read this document (pdf) about radio devices on german planes (if you don't - you just could enjoy pictures)

 

The pictures are nice  :biggrin: I used google translate for the text.


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#13 Sokol1

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 15:02

I hope they will implement something similar that we had in IL2 1946 at some point. Learning the radio navigation and blind landings was an interesting part of it and it was also cool to be able to tune in to different radio stations and listen to their broadcasts while flying.

 

Small chance. This explanation is about Bombsight, but fit well for the game Radio Navigation option.

 

http://forum.il2stur...-71#entry404054


  • 0

... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#14 FlyingShark

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 16:57

Small chance. This explanation is about Bombsight, but fit well for the game Radio Navigation option.

If I understand well, they state that they use a universal bombsight because of limited time and resources.

And like you say, it would fit well for the game radio navigation which is actually what I meant in my previous post, no radio tuning but just let us choose the home base like with commands and so.

 

:salute:  


Bf-109 G10 with it behind the cockpit.

Thanks, now I finally know what that circle on certain German planes is for.

 

:salute:  


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#15 FlyingShark

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 17:40

I actually just made a suggestion to let the game give us a choice as to where the radio navigation guides us.

And, me too, I would like the whole procedure see modeled in the sim but as they already stated they will very unlikely do that, we would at least get this.

 

http://forum.il2stur...tions/?p=408190

 

(Scroll down to the 6th post).

 

 

I hope they are interested in this proposition, and you guys too of course.

 

:salute:


Edited by FlyingShark, 09 November 2016 - 21:49.

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#16 Sokol1

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 14:01

From Russian forum (quote from Wermacht-awards), how AFN-2 needle work (seems the crazy thing in CloD... is not too crazy). :)
 

The first clip simulated an aircraft flying into the beam. It enters to the left of the beam, into the dot-zone. You can see that the instrument is pulsing left with the dots. Also note that a strengthening of signal makes the instrument point left. It was important for the pilot to distinguish between the pulses and the more gradual swings of the needle due to changing signal strength:

 
 
of The: second clip simulates the aircraft's starting on the left of the beam in the Access dot-zone and flying starboard Into the dash-zone. 
 
These first two clips do not only simulate a blind landing approach, but do also simulate the "Knickebein" beam guidance system used in early 1940 at the start of the Battle of Britain . At that time the earlier Ebl.1 receiver would still have been fitted to the German bomber aircraft:
 
 
the Clip a three simulates the "Vor-Einflugzeichen" (VEZ) or first beacon Approach. The VEZ was located 3000 meters before the runway. This is a slow pulse, low tone signal. The pilot would approach on a constant height and on hearing the VEZ would start a given descent. Keeping one eye on the variometer and the other on the AFN he would be near the ideal glide path onto the runway
 
 
. the Clip a four simulates the "Haupt-Einflugzeichen (HEZ) or main beacon of The Approach HEZ WAS Located 300 meters before the runway This was a fast pulse, high tone signal;. the HEZ is an urgent warning that the pilot does not have a lot of time to make adjustments the pilot would check his height and had to decide to continue the landing or abort By now the runway lights should be visible for the final approach..:
 
 
of The fifth clip Shows the aircraft's flying Along the beam. It starts in the centre, moves to port into the dash zone, corrects but overshoots to the starboard side into the dash zone. The aircraft ends back onto the beam:
 
 
of The final clip Shows all signals in a the single clip, the aircraft's flying is in the Access dot-zone and the VEZ and HEZ are triggered in the quick succession. Not a very realistic scenario, but it allows to different signals to be compared:
 
 
 

 

 
Who want follow that needle, in Ju-52 in blizzard conditions?  :)

  • 0

... guns were too quiet when engine is running and speed is high, and there was no "immersion of fire and metal storm in 2 meters aside of me"


#17 216th_Retnek

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 20:54

Thanks for presenting an impression of the function of that equipment. The word "Knickebein" shown in the video points into a wrong direction, the pictures show a landing procedure, not a bombing run. Just a few notes on the technology. It came up 1932 for civil use:

 

https://en.wikipedia...iki/Lorenz_beam

 

It later was transformed into a bomb aiming procedure - Knickebein - crooked leg, called that way maybe because of the prominent angle in the large antennas:

 

https://de.wikipedia...ein_(Funkfeuer)

https://en.wikipedia...le_of_the_Beams

 

And into this navigation system f.e.

 

https://www.nonstops...htm#top-of-page

 

It's all here - I so much hope to find technologies like this presented in a flight sim one fine day - or at least an interface to let the enthusiasts build the add-on.

 

Compared to the hairy procedures in use before:

 

https://de.wikipedia...chstoßverfahren

https://de.wikipedia...ki/ZZ-Verfahren

 

Can't find a good web-source in english on this, it's comparable to today's reserve procedure called VDF/QGH. No radar support in the 1920s, just radio direction finding via human operators.

http://www.island-im...0s/QGH App.html


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#18 FlyingShark

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Posted 03 February 2017 - 13:22

Guys,

 

If you look at the Lorenz navigation system in the cockpit of the upcoming FW A5, there is something that pulled my attention and pleases me.

Just maybe, look for yourselves at the horizontal needle:

 

https://forum.il2stu...e-4#entry439151

 

(it's the 4th screenshot).

 

:salute:


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#19 FlyingShark

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 21:49

Good news guys,

 

The vertical needle of the Lorenz navigation system is now functional too since the update.

I just checked it out in the FW A5 and the BF 110 E2 (which has an older version of the Lorenz).

 

:salute:


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