Developer Diary, Part 135 - Discussion

[Asgar]

it's BS excuse. were those planes only used on the Russian front? NO. where they used on all fronts? yes. will we get expansions for all the front they were used at? who knows. if we get one. does it make sense to include the same plane just to add some rockets? CERTAINLY NOT

Edited October 19, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Asgar

[707shap_Srbin]

it's BS excuse. were those planes only used on the Russian front? NO. where they used on all fronts? yes. will we get expansions for all the front they were used at? who knows. if we get one. does it make sense to include the same plane just to add some rockets? CERTAINLY NOT

 

I think You still not understand. Its Devs who make a game, and You are playing it. Not otherwise.

 

Developers have strict line.

 

If they would listen all and around, game will fall into abuse of BS ideas.

From start, we could see MK108 in Bf110 in the East.

Then would follow Me410 in the East.

What next? A5M Zero in Battle of Kursk? 

Then? TIE-Fighter?

Edited October 19, 2016 by I./ZG1_Panzerbar

[LLv34_Temuri]

will we get expansions for all the front they were used at? who knows. if we get one. does it make sense to include the same plane just to add some rockets? CERTAINLY NOT

I would hope that in such case the options would just be added to the existing plane as a "bonus".

[Asgar]

in the past all the way up to the TS Q&A with Jason it was made clear, that the developers have no interest in adding modifications for existing planes

[kendo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

@ Panzerbar really disturbing seeing a Zerstorer pilot that is following this time line restrictions madness.  We had no such thing on 46s and the game was a big success because all planes were made available with all famous mods no matther what.

 

Devs can restrict loadout on single player campaign to keep purists happy about time line, but no point at all to not deliver complete set of mods now because we will go other maps later and very likely they wont come back to add anything to current plane set.

 

Unfortunately Devs are willing to walk a dangerous road leading to a terrible new unlock system called time line. The difference now is that you wont have cool mods at all 

Edited October 19, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[Dutchvdm]

@ Panzerbar really disturbing seeing a Zerstorer pilot that is following this time line restrictions madness.  We had no such thing on 46s and the game was a big success because all planes were made available with all famous mods no matther what.

 

Devs can restrict loadout on single player campaign to keep purists happy about time line, but no point at all to not deliver complete set of mods now because we will go other maps later and very likely they wont come back to add anything to current plane set.

 

Unfortunately Devs are willing to walk a dangerous road leading to a terrible new unlock system called time line. The difference now is that you wont have cool mods at all 

 

Sure it would be cool to have it all, but as we can see a lot off aircraft (including the Bf-110) are getting some nice loadouts already. And adding the MK-108 would be nice and all, but would you be OK with it if you could not use it on most of the MP maps and the Campaign? Only to fiddle with it in the QMB.... Just adding it for a future expansion is not really useful i think. I was with you guys on the mods for the Ju-88 (like the 20 mm canon in the nose), but for the Bf-110 i think were getting quiet enough. 

 

Grt M

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Sure it would be cool to have it all, but as we can see a lot off aircraft (including the Bf-110) are getting some nice loadouts already. And adding the MK-108 would be nice and all, but would you be OK with it if you could not use it on most of the MP maps and the Campaign? Only to fiddle with it in the QMB.... Just adding it for a future expansion is not really useful i think. I was with you guys on the mods for the Ju-88 (like the 20 mm canon in the nose), but for the Bf-110 i think were getting quiet enough. 

 

Grt M

The problem now is when they deliver the list of mods it is over. They wont change anything for BoK. I would like to see rockets and 30mm because we can have new real options and mission capabilities.

For example, an extra pair of 20mm on the belly is cool but it changes nothing because you already have a pair as default. More SC bomb load outs is more of the same. Etc...

How about setting up a poll to get forum users opinions on this?

Do it Chief !!!  But choose the words wisely

Edited October 19, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

@ Panzerbar really disturbing seeing a Zerstorer pilot that is following this time line restrictions madness.  We had no such thing on 46s and the game was a big success because all planes were made available with all famous mods no matther what.

 

For '46, MK108 was forbidden in all main projects - AW, AWII, Skyes of War e.t.c. And I think Viks closed the question about MK108 in Bf110 - it was used only from March 1944, and was used only for march-june 1944, i.e. during the very late and final stages of "Bf110 in Home Defense" operations.

 

For W.Gr.21, in '46 they were lamost useless, even against large formations of bombers.  For Il-2:BoX, I just dont see what is the use of W.Gr.21.

-Against bombers? No, it will be a crap. Nil accurancy, great drag (speed loss), lesser effectiveness then usual MGs. We will have no such enemy bombers with the size of "Viermot" on Eastern front. 

-Against ground targets? IV./JG3 used WGr21 on their Bf109G-6 against groun targets in late summer 1943 in Italy, but failed totally. I am not sure in any better results of same approach with Bf110G-2/M5.

 

I am happy with announced modif. set, because:

 

-against ground targets Zerstorer pilots will have plenty of bombs (I hope we will get SC250 + SD1000 under fuselage).

-against tanks, we will have brilliant Bk 3.7 with a railroad wagon of ammunition. This set is prooved by 100% as a real threat for enemy tanks in online Wars by many of "zerstorer veterans" (virtual Bf110 pilots of Il-2:'46 era).

-against enemy bombers, we have additional WB151/20 with a 200 rounds per each gun.

 

P.S. We have a nice ideoma here, in Russia: "Better" is the worst enemy of "Good enough".

[LukeFF]

it's BS excuse. were those planes only used on the Russian front? NO. where they used on all fronts? yes. will we get expansions for all the front they were used at? who knows. if we get one. does it make sense to include the same plane just to add some rockets? CERTAINLY NOT

 

They can always add more loadouts later. Nothing odd or strange about that.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

For '46, MK108 was forbidden in all main projects - AW, AWII, Skyes of War e.t.c. And I think Viks closed the question about MK108 in Bf110 - it was used only from March 1944, and was used only for march-june 1944, i.e. during the very late and final stages of "Bf110 in Home Defense" operations.

 

For W.Gr.21, in '46 they were lamost useless, even against large formations of bombers.  For Il-2:BoX, I just dont see what is the use of W.Gr.21.

-Against bombers? No, it will be a crap. Nil accurancy, great drag (speed loss), lesser effectiveness then usual MGs. We will have no such enemy bombers with the size of "Viermot" on Eastern front. 

-Against ground targets? IV./JG3 used WGr21 on their Bf109G-6 against groun targets in late summer 1943 in Italy, but failed totally. I am not sure in any better results of same approach with Bf110G-2/M5.

 

I am happy with announced modif. set, because:

 

-against ground targets Zerstorer pilots will have plenty of bombs (I hope we will get SC250 + SD1000 under fuselage).

-against tanks, we will have brilliant Bk 3.7 with a railroad wagon of ammunition. This set is prooved by 100% as a real threat for enemy tanks in online Wars by many of "zerstorer veterans" (virtual Bf110 pilots of Il-2:'46 era).

-against enemy bombers, we have additional WB151/20 with a 200 rounds per each gun.

 

P.S. We have a nice ideoma here, in Russia: "Better" is the worst enemy of "Good enough".

 

 

For 30mm:

-It would be allowed on my offline missions and server. It would be tons of fun.

-Once again this time line restriction is dumb and will make some mods lost forever.

 

For rockets: Useless for noobs,

-I was pretty good on hitting bombers using rockets. 50% success usually. It was just a matter of training. Would be great against running Pe2s.  

-It was great for hitting larger targets as hangars and factories without dangerous exposure to enemy flak.

-The drag is not an issue because you can jetisson it at any time.

 

For ground attack: 

-1000kg bombs are usually restricted on public servers for fighter bombers.

-LIke I have said before, the 37 cannon is the only thing new and I hope it can kill medium and heavy tanks. 37 cannons on 46s were one shot, one kill. BoS/BoM 37 cannons are a different history.

 

P.S. We have a nice ideoma here, in Brazil: "The worst blind man is the one who doesn't want to see".

[Asgar]

They can always add more loadouts later. Nothing odd or strange about that.

and whenever we ask for any kind of additional loadout so far the answer was pretty simple...no. that's the precedence we're working with

[LukeFF]

and whenever we ask for any kind of additional loadout so far the answer was pretty simple...no. that's the precedence we're working with

Plans can always change.

[LukeFF]

 

 

LIke I have said before, the 37 cannon is the only thing new and I hope it can kill medium and heavy tanks.

 

Let's see here, in regards to the G-2:

• MG 151/20 nose cannons, which means (1) increased ammo load, (2) higher muzzle velocity, and (3) no need to manually reload the cannons, as compared to the E-2
• MG 151/20 gunpod, which doubles the plane's 20 mm firepower.
• The BK 3.7 cannon
• MG 81Z vs MG 15 for rear gunner.
• Faster overall speed.

You have a very odd idea of what is "the only thing new."

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Let's see here, in regards to the G-2:

• MG 151/20 nose cannons, which means (1) increased ammo load, (2) higher muzzle velocity, and (3) no need to manually reload the cannons, as compared to the E-2
• MG 151/20 gunpod, which doubles the plane's 20 mm firepower.
• The BK 3.7 cannon
• MG 81Z vs MG 15 for rear gunner.
• Faster overall speed.

You have a very odd idea of what is "the only thing new."

 

Lets see here, in regards to 110s on line gaming:

 

• We already have that cannon on the 190 and it is not enough to crack the wood and fabric  made unbreakable soviet fighters.
• We dont need 4 cannons to strafe trucks, cars and get the mission done.
• 110s gunners cant shot at anything most of the time. So you can give them anything you want. I will keep my wingman.

The only thing NEW means the only thing that will have a chance of giving us new possibilities in combat.

 

[Edited]

Edited October 20, 2016 by Bearcat

[LukeFF]

Ignoring the insults...

 

We already have that cannon on the 190 and it is not enough to crack the wood and fabric  made unbreakable soviet fighters.

 

Absolute rubbish. If you can't shoot down any Soviet plane with the 190, then your gunnery is awful. 4 cannons is also very helpful for attacking Sturmoviks.

 

We dont need 4 cannons to strafe trucks, cars and get the mission done.

 

No, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

 

110s gunners cant shot at anything most of the time. So you can give them anything you want. I will keep my wingman.

 

It's certainly helpful for human gunners.

 

The only thing NEW means the only thing that will have a chance of giving us new possibilities in combat.

 

And somehow all the things I listed aren't new and/or different? Like I said, you have some very odd ideas at work here.

Edited October 19, 2016 by LukeFF

[Gunsmith86]

Well before we all go and kill each other we should consider doing something more usefull like suggest to the developers to add weapon and equipment packs for planes already in the game.

I would advice to collect such things that you belive they should add into the game and put it in the sugestions thread if many people ask for it than they will certainly make it happen BoK  campaign proofs that.

 

I have allready started with that months ago:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/767-thread-gather-your-suggestions/page-12?do=findComment&comment=333555

 

[707shap_Srbin]

For 30mm: -It would be allowed on my offline missions and server. It would be tons of fun.

 

For Your fun.

 

W.Gr.21, operational with Bf110E-2 of ZG101, late 1943.

 

Bf110E-2/M1, with WB151/20, aircraft from ZG101 also, same timeframe.

 

Bf110C - first one is BM+OQ, and second one is 2J+AR, E-Stelle Rechlin. Flight tests of Bk 3,7, late autumn 1942.

 

Bf110C and D in JaBo variant with 2 (two) SD1000 bombs? No problem.

 

Now, what do You think - should all listed above, added to the game?

 

-Once again this time line restriction is dumb and will make some mods lost forever.

 

Please, dont forget - Mods and Modders killed Il-2 '46 as a game.

 

-It was great for hitting larger targets as hangars and factories without dangerous exposure to enemy flak.

 

Hmmm... I prefer bombs for bombing, the same way I would not prefer Battleaxe for surgery operation

 

-The drag is not an issue because you can jetisson it at any time.

 

Not true for Il-2 '46.

 

and whenever we ask for any kind of additional loadout so far the answer was pretty simple...no.

 

Sorry, but should I mention 20mm guns on M.C.202, wich were built for test only, failed those tests and never became operational? We have them in game. And something more This crap happemed only because of "askers whinning for more/bigger/better guns". Same [Edited] with VYa-23 gun, wich was never installed operationally on LaGG-3's of any series other then in late 1941 (only 5 aircrafts got it).

Edited October 21, 2016 by Bearcat
Profanity

[Danziger]

Nothing broken with German weapons. Russians just built better ones. We Americans love the Browning M2s but the Russian 12.7 slaughters it. Almost all of the Russian guns in general have heavier projectiles (harder hitting), larger powder charge in the casing (faster muzzle velocity=longer range, straighter flight path, and harder hitting), and insane high firing rate (more rounds on target in a shorter amount of time). This makes Russian weapons more accurate and deadly at longer ranges. Add in the fact that most of the guns are mounted in the nose and you don't have to worry about convergence. This is why Russian fighters could get away with two guns in the nose. The firepower and location makes up for not having those six wing-mounted .50s. 

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

Add in the fact that most of the guns are mounted in the nose and you don't have to worry about convergence.

Yeah, that is why I would always prefer Bf110  then Fw190

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Same [Edited] with VYa-23 gun, wich was never installed operationally on LaGG-3's of any series other then in late 1941 (only 5 aircrafts got it).

What is frustrating about this is this particular loadout is probably the most used/abused one now in game. Never understand why this loadout isn't disabled on all but the arcade servers.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Bearcat

[Gunsmith86]

Dont forget that disableing these loadouts that doesnt fit the mission is the fault of the mission designer and not the fault of developers

Edited October 20, 2016 by Gunsmith86

[Asgar]

 

 

Please, dont forget - Mods and Modders killed Il-2 '46 as a game.

 

sry what? i think you mean "kept alive till this day"

[Gunsmith86]

While for a part of the players the large numbers of mods saved their IL2 expirience until today for others it was the end. Because most of these were not realy representing the planes and weapons as they were in real. For a player who has only basic information of the things he uses in his mission thats no problem he will have lots of fun playing. For people who have read a lot about this planes and weapons its a pain to see how wrongly many are represented in these mods for example: someone above sayed he was able to hit regular with the 21cm rockets and that he could stay out of Flak range and so attack ground targets more esayly than with bombs. What he did not know ( and thats not his fault) is that he could only do that because these weapon was created totaly unrealistic the max range of the weapon is 1200m and there it should explod but that was never exactly the distance it did explode it could be 1100-1300m . It also explodes if it scores a direkt hit but that was very seldom because after that distance it could be more than 200m left or right to the point were you aimed! We dont speak about any missfunktion here these are perfect working rockets!

So maybe now some of you are able to understand a little better why some players dont want like the idea of mods that much

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Dont know why people bring in IL-2 1946 whenever mods are mentioned. Mods in RoF are developer managed and work just fine. Nothing that ruins MP or causes compatebility issues (infact there barely even are mod servers in RoF). The RoF system also does not allow FM, DM or any other changes that could be counted as cheat.

 

I see no reason why it should be managed any different here in IL-2 apart from a little more liberty in modding skins and sounds so the "It ruined 1946" argument is not valid.

[707shap_Srbin]

 

 

sry what? i think you mean "kept alive till this day"

 

Man in coma is still alive. Or "alive".

[J2_Trupobaw]

Oh great, two guys define two completely different meanings of "new content", then argue whether content should be considered new or not - each using his own definition. This won't go anywhere constructive, Luke  .

 

 Mods in RoF are developer managed and work just fine. Nothing that ruins MP or causes compatebility issues (infact there barely even are mod servers in RoF). The RoF system also does not allow FM, DM or any other changes that could be counted as cheat.

 

 

If it only was true... experiments with mods on online tournaments in RoF run into lots of performance and stability problems. When different people had different mods, or wrongly installed required modpack, it was unplayable for everyone and kept crashing the server or kicking people. When they switched to server side-only mods, it was just difficult. And of course, once mods are on, nothing stops you from running client side mod that changes default skin of planes to one of your choice, that happens to be neon red and reflective... in the end, it was run on honour system and participants good will and patience.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Trupobaw

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

And of course, once mods are on, nothing stops you from running client side mod that changes default skin of planes to one of your choice, that happens to be neon red and reflective... in the end, it was run on honour system and participants good will and patience.

That has nothign to do with mod support though and is possible even now (it requires hacking since the game usually will only read encrypted source files and not user implemented skins).

The issues with servers offering mods was ever present and will be but fact is it will not mean the end to mod free servers. Mods can potentially be usefull in MP for special squadrom events or competitions, less for daily croud servers.

 

If mods gain popularity a Mod system similar to Arma might be worth adapting (if you want to join a server in Arma but don't have the mods the game will automatically download, install and configure them or you).

Edited October 20, 2016 by 6./ZG26_5tuka__

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

That is what we got when we have a russian guy like Panzerbar thinking he is looking for Luftwaffe best interests. 

 

While you are trying to implement your agenda against the 110G2, I am celebrating an important pernsonal victory for 110s community, the correction  of 110s wing damage model.

 

My test video: 

 

 

 

PS.: When I say mods, I am talking about official planes loadouts,  what used to be unlocks. Not some third party guy changing the game. Just to make myself clear to people with limited text interpretation skills. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For Your fun.

 

W.Gr.21, operational with Bf110E-2 of ZG101, late 1943.

$T2eC16F,!ykE9s7twBmHBRcGCL6CL!~~60_58.JPG

 

Bf110E-2/M1, with WB151/20, aircraft from ZG101 also, same timeframe.

mg151.jpg

 

Bf110C - first one is BM+OQ, and second one is 2J+AR, E-Stelle Rechlin. Flight tests of Bk 3,7, late autumn 1942.

Messerschmitt-Bf-110G-Zerstorer-(BM+OQ)-01.jpg5.jpg

 

Bf110C and D in JaBo variant with 2 (two) SD1000 bombs? No problem.

4.JPG

 

Now, what do You think - should all listed above, added to the game?

 

 

Please, dont forget - Mods and Modders killed Il-2 '46 as a game.

 

 

Hmmm... I prefer bombs for bombing, the same way I would not prefer Battleaxe for surgery operation

 

 

Not true for Il-2 '46.

 

 

Sorry, but should I mention 20mm guns on M.C.202, wich were built for test only, failed those tests and never became operational? We have them in game. And something more This crap happemed only because of "askers whinning for more/bigger/better guns". Same shit with VYa-23 gun, wich was never installed operationally on LaGG-3's of any series other then in late 1941 (only 5 aircrafts got it).

Edited October 21, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[sinned]

Please.. can we not fight over rockets and all get along?

[Bearcat]

I have cleaned up this thread.. Knock it off guys. Just suck it up and chillax.. everybody. 

 

 

There was no such thing as mod restrictions due to time line on IL2 46.

Maybe no mods restrictions was one of 46s greatest success secrets. Just wondering...

 

Don't forget .. initially mods in IL2 .. which became 46.. were NOT developer approved and they were the result of a hack. Now whethger that ultimately turned out to be a good thing or a bad thing can be debated ad nauseum.. just not here. 

 

 

 

Please, dont forget - Mods and Modders killed Il-2 '46 as a game.

 

 

.... again.. that is debatable ... just not debatable here.. 

[Hoots]

Haven't seen you around for a while bearcat, maybe the forum is better behaved.....

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I have cleaned up this thread.. Knock it off guys. Just suck it up and chillax.. everybody. 

 

 

 

Don't forget .. initially mods in IL2 .. which became 46.. were NOT developer approved and they were the result of a hack. Now whethger that ultimately turned out to be a good thing or a bad thing can be debated ad nauseum.. just not here. 

 

 

 

.... again.. that is debatable ... just not debatable here.. 

 

 

That is what we got when we have a russian guy like Panzerbar thinking he is looking for Luftwaffe best interests. 

 

While you are trying to implement your agenda against the 110G2, I am celebrating an important pernsonal victory for 110s community, the correction  of 110s wing damage model.

 

My test video: 

 

 

 

PS.: When I say mods, I am talking about official planes loadouts,  what used to be unlocks. Not some third party guy changing the game. Just to make myself clear to people with limited text interpretation skills. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wtornado]

I think You still not understand. Its Devs who make a game, and You are playing it. Not otherwise.

 

Developers have strict line.

 

If they would listen all and around, game will fall into abuse of BS ideas.

From start, we could see MK108 in Bf110 in the East.

Then would follow Me410 in the East.

What next? A5M Zero in Battle of Kursk? 

Then? TIE-Fighter?

Just one bar under my name so far but the devs are listening more and more

and the 2.004 patch is very good.

 

They have to keep on trying to keep on convincing me to spend another 300$ Canadian.

And don't compare my currency to anything else it costs me 300$ Canadian no matter

what base currency they use.

 

 

Their job is to get me to add more bars under my name so the game can continue.

The devs can make stuff all they want and keep the game as historically accurate as

it does not mean that we as the consumer want it or like it..

 

And that goes for all games and all developers and all games I buy.

 

It does not matter what add-ons they put in the game be it MK103 kanons or Klingon

disruptor beams it is the hosts of DF or Co-op servers that decide if the missions are

historical

 

YOU decide what you want to join.

[Bearcat]

PS.: When I say mods, I am talking about official planes loadouts,  what used to be unlocks. Not some third party guy changing the game. Just to make myself clear to people with limited text interpretation skills. 

 

 

 

I am not sure what you mean by that ... but you mentioned mods in the context of 1946.. Hence my comment.. In any case knock off the snarky comments .. regardless to who they are directed at.. 

[wtornado]

There are no more unlocks. Please call them mods.

 

Jason

I found it weird too Bearcat it looks like they changed the term's meanings too.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

I found it weird too Bearcat it looks like they changed the term's meanings too.

Thanks, WTornado.

 

I remember Jason saying that but I didn't remember exactly where.

 

It seems Bearcat didn't do his homework.

Edited October 23, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[Dakpilot]

Thanks, WTornado.

 

I remember Jason saying that but I didn't remember exactly where.

 

It seems Bearcat didn't do his homework.

 

How is he not doing his "homework" when he directly quoted you from your post talking about Mods in IL-2 46....

 

perhaps it's just a language thing but you are really trying to stir the pot now

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Bearcat]

Thanks, WTornado.

 

I remember Jason saying that but I didn't remember exactly where.

 

It seems Bearcat didn't do his homework.

 

It seems you forget what you post... 

 

That is what I keep saying since BoS was a alpha on Lapino map.

 

There was no such thing as mod restrictions due to time line on IL2 46.

 

Maybe no mods restrictions was one of 46s greatest success secrets. Just wondering...

 

 

Comparing mods in IL2 in any way to mods in this ism is an apples and oranges kind of thing. A better comparison would be mods in RoF .. 

 

How is he not doing his "homework" when he directly quoted you from your post talking about Mods in IL-2 46....

 

perhaps it's just a language thing but you are really trying to stir the pot now

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

This is the wrong pot to stir... 

That is what I keep saying since BoS was a alpha on Lapino map.

 

There was no such thing as mod restrictions due to time line on IL2 46.

 

Maybe no mods restrictions was one of 46s greatest success secrets. Just wondering...

 

[150GCT_Veltro]

That is what we got when we have a russian guy like Panzerbar thinking he is looking for Luftwaffe best interests. 

 

While you are trying to implement your agenda against the 110G2, I am celebrating an important pernsonal victory for 110s community, the correction  of 110s wing damage model.

 

My test video: 

 

 

We can only hope this game will turn fast in the right way again, recovering its credibility. The pro VVS policy has reached the border line.

 

20. False claims on future or past decisions and plans of the developers, which are not backed by hyperlinks or other facts are prohibited.

Violations of this rule will result in the following:

First offense - 7 days ban on entry

Edited October 25, 2016 by BlackSix