Do you think chutekilling is acceptable ?

[=IL2AU=ToknMurican]

This will be my last post on this. You are attempting an intellectual construct to prove an invalid point regarding chute killing. The reason it is the majority opinion, as most majority opinions are, is because it is reasonable and chute killing violates societal norms.

 

Majority opinions can of course be flawed. Particularly when they infringe upon rights. This, however, is a majority opinion about inclusion. As such it does not fall into that category.

 

In this case the reasonableness standards are "community" and "fair play." Your argument plays only to one of those elements and they are symbiotic, not mutually exclusive.

 

You have made huge assumptions about those who decline to accept your interpretation; that we quit when a douche with questionable character chooses to chute kill in a game. We don't quit. We continue to play and generally make it a point to hunt down said douche. It's a douchey move with little tactical value and absolutely no social benefit. In fact, it is unlikely most would do it at a LAN event because of the possibility of real world repercussions for said antisocial behavior. Just know, when you do it it makes you, well, I think you get the point.

 

The majority opinion isn't what makes it right. Fair play and FUN for the community is what makes it right. The majority opinion is what confirms most people agree that fair play and non-douchey behavior is what conforms to their idea of how the game should be played.

 

Rationalizing antisocial behavior is what usually results in being removed from society at large in the real world. Only in the virtual space are there no repercussions for it.

 

To be fair, I have on occasion done shitty things in the game. Usually when I have played too long and/or gotten angry. I chute killed once and immediately regretted it. I damaged a teammate after he stole a kill and also immediately regretted it. They were shitty things to do BECAUSE they violated community norms.

 

The high yo-yo is a valid COMBAT tactic in a combat flight simulator. Chute killing is not. We can take any argument to an illogical end. Thats a nice try with the red herring.

 

Chute killing has the potential to cause divisiveness within the community. NOT chute killing - has no possibility of causing divisiveness within the community.

 

You are welcome to your intellectual exercise.

 

Posting in an old thread just because of this comment I've bolded.   If I'm at a LAN party and some dude gets up and decides to fight me because of an action I took in a video game.. who's the real douche there?  Real world reprecussions?   A guy decides to shoot someone's chute for his own fun in a video game.. and you think you or someone else would get up and have a fist fight over it?   No no, sir.. that person would be in the wrong.   If I were any good as a pilot I could chute kill someone all I wanted and not be breaking the law..  if it caused "real life repercussions" the guilty party there would be facing assault charges and rightly so.  

 

Reading this post I think some of you are way to easily hurt over the actions someone else is taking in a video game.   If you're getting angry to the point where you might get violent playing a video game that's a problem with you not the pilot doing the chute killing.  I care not how many votes indicate otherwise.  That's kind of the point of video games.. there ARE no real life reprecussions.   

 

*Edit* I'm not a great pilot..I'll be happy when I get my first player kill on an expert server.. but to give my opinion on the matter.. if I'm floating down in my chute and someone kills me.. Kudos to them.. maybe they just wanted to see if they could.  I'm not going to rage or even really think twice about it. I'm going to hit esc, finish flight and spawn a new plane, and do my best to find something to blow up and likely fail miserably and hope to heck I can recognize the markings and identifiers of an enemy plane and get the advantage before I get shot down again If a friend did it to me at a lan party I'd probably laugh about it then move on.  It was my fault for allowing him to shoot me down in the first place.  My goal everytime I fail so far in flight sims or any game I return to in general is to do better the next time. And while I've been guilty of ranting in anger over a video game before.. I've found over the years it's easier to enjoy them to just move on and play the way you want to and anything deterring you from doing so is either a challenge you're willing to accept or run from.  Either of those is a good choice imo as opposed to the steam pouring out of our ears. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by headwarp

[javelina]

Nope, won't do it.  I know it's a game but something tells me not to do it (the sim part, flying like it's life).  I don't mind flying past the b*st*rd in the Chute, after I've shot him down though.   I give him a virtual thumbs up and a V sign when I do.  Maybe the middle finger if the "F" 'er was really good.  :-)

[ITAF_Rani]

Is a deplorable act.

When you was able to defeat the enemy in the air...to kill the bailed out pilot,means that you are not a fighter pilot but a murder!!

[Thad]

Yes, but hitting the chute and not the pilot is the challenge.

 

It would be inhumane to aim at the pilot. But the chute... no problem.

[Fortis_Leader]

Is it even possible to kill the pilot by hitting him directly, instead of hitting the chute? I've never managed to.*

 

 

 

 

*In SP, before someone decides to file a lawsuit against me.

[Scojo]

Would shooting the parachute actually cause it to fail as easily as it does in game? I'm sure if you hit the right places it would, but if you're just putting holes in the chute itself, I don't see why it wouldn't take lots of bullets to have a dangerous effect

Unless you could put a lot of rounds in a small area and then I imagine it would just rip apart from the line loads

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Is it even possible to kill the pilot by hitting him directly, instead of hitting the chute? I've never managed to.*

 

 

 

 

*In SP, before someone decides to file a lawsuit against me.

 

Yes, it is.

 

You can also strike the pilot with the aircraft and do damage to yourself. I may have had a couple of prop strikes in my day. 

[Sokol1]

Or people ask dev's for "CloD" like immaterial parachutist   or stop moaning about. 

 

Cute kill is the flight games equivalent to FPS TeaBagging, who do this is for humiliate the defeated enemy. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Sokol1

[9./JG27DavidRed]

i voted yes...it happened in real life, so i think it fits in this sim as well.

but a +1 for me for the chute-pull option. ive seen a couple of interviews where pilots reported to wait for the last second to pull the chute to avoid being shot by enemy aircraft.

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by 9./JG27DavidRed

[Nocke]

Sigh... The real life argument ... In the first place, if this was real, I wouldn't be doing it ...

[19//Moach]

well - if dude is vulching, and dudes gets shot down then hits the silk -- well, dude's gonna die

 

 

not just if I catch him - but AAA will also shoot at a downed pilot just the same

 

 

but, if a plane goes down over a target, doing his duty as the mission calls for, then parachute guy lives -- and in that case it is NOT ok to kill a chute

 

 

 

 

yetm, vulchers, near-spawn prowlers... basically anyone just hunting for stats-padding kills shall receive no mercy - he who picks a dirty fight gets exactly that

Edited March 25, 2017 by 19//Moach

[Guest deleted@30725]

I think it's OK in the GAME.

 

In real life I honest don't know. In modern times I feel empathy for the german team in the game because I know they are not actually trying to kill ME or take my home, my woman and all that I love. They're stopping me from getting a good score and loosing the games battle is annoying, but I can still walk away from the computer and do something else. Nothing in the game really matters and the outcomes don't mean anything really. Win or lose you still live in the real world. If you're not having fun you can do something else. Or I guess come to the forum and tear the game to pieces writing some huge wall of text that people who like the game and thus use the forums don't really care about. We're playing as the good guys and the bad so really in the game we're playing neutral on both sides and the battle is a test. It is boiled down a simulation using the data of what the planes were like and then putting fresh pilots in each and seeing who would win each battle.

 

In real life I guess if one of the aces bailed and he'd killed half my squad, my best friends and I was in this god awful war because of some mad man that they were following. Since I've yet to meet the solider I don't know if he believes in the leader, but he's an agent of death, a part of the machine and if I kill him that's one less of those people so I might kill him.

 

But I read that even through all this evil, the allies were generally fighting the machine in the air rather than the pilot.

 

So if I think really hard I don't think in reality I would. I've got the plane, he's managed to escape and I've probably witnessed plenty who have not so I would probably leave him alone. It's not my fault he's a talented pilot fighting on the wrong team and maybe he's only doing this because he has to. Maybe he has a wife and beautiful children who he is fighting for.

 

Therefore after writing my own wall of text I come to the simple answer that NO. I do not try and chute kill players in the game, but I understand if people do because this simulation is war and the things we shoot at are not real. They all come back after the game re-starts.

Edited March 25, 2017 by deleted@30725

[Cybermat47]

Is a deplorable act.

When you was able to defeat the enemy in the air...to kill the bailed out pilot,means that you are not a fighter pilot but a murder!!

Given that this is a video game and not real life, I don't see how that argument has any meaning here.

[Corto]

In my opinion, shooting down chutes in a flight simulator is just a waste of ammo and something that's meant to humiliate your opponent. I'm not a fan of this whole "teabagging" culture some people have. It's just a display of bad sportsmanship.

 

In real life, in a real war... I think the moral dilemma is somewhat different.

 

I see flight sims as a sport, which has stakes that are nowhere near those of a real war.

+1 Chuck.

[Fortis_Leader]

Ok, playing devil's advocate here: What's the difference between shooting down a parachutist, and shooting down an unarmed Ju-52, now that we have those? Neither can defend itself.

[Guest deleted@30725]

Ok, playing devil's advocate here: What's the difference between shooting down a parachutist, and shooting down an unarmed Ju-52, now that we have those? Neither can defend itself.

 

You can save points by saving your pilot, but the enemy can't take him as a hostage for any useful information where keeping the pilot alive would actually be of use. Whether the pilot is dead in the plane or shot floating in the air is still same result in game. If the player who uses his ammo on the floating pilot runs out he can just belly land not loosing points or rtb, get a new plane and continue the mission.

 

In real life the ju-52 would be helping towards the war effort so shooting one down would help by killing paratroopers or loosing supplies, such things would add to a wider picture and consequences may be felt for other battles. This is like asking the difference between shooting a tank or a supply column. If the trucks are carrying valuable fuel to power war machines then unarmed or not they need to be stopped. The tank is dangerous, but if you can't fuel it then it's just a huge dumb paper weight. (new game mode right there)

 

The ju-52 in real life would likely have some air support in the form of fighter planes to project them.

Edited March 26, 2017 by deleted@30725

[Nocke]

Ok, playing devil's advocate here: What's the difference between shooting down a parachutist, and shooting down an unarmed Ju-52, now that we have those? Neither can defend itself.

There is a very important difference: The ju52 at least can move and try to avoid the attack, apart from normally not being unarmed but carrying a gunner. On your chute, there is NOTHING you can do.

[Cybermat47]

Ok, playing devil's advocate here: What's the difference between shooting down a parachutist, and shooting down an unarmed Ju-52, now that we have those? Neither can defend itself.

In real life, the Ju-52 would have been contributing to the Axis war effort by transporting cargo or troops. Only the destruction of medical Ju-52s would be forbidden by the Geneva Convention, and even then, not every Airman would have adhered to the Convention.

 

The bailed-out Airman, on the other hand, would only be able to contribute to the enemy's war effort if they landed in their own territory, which is why some pilots would kill enemy pilots in parachutes over hostile territory, but spare any who would most likely become PoWs upon landing.

 

In-game, the Ju-52 is going to contribute to your team losing, and there's no point in killing bailed out pilots, because they'll be back in the game regardless.

 

In fact, chutekilling in the game only does three things:

 

1) Distracts you from anybody diving on you.

2) Wastes your ammunition.

3) Annoys people.

Edited March 27, 2017 by Cybermat47

[Aap]

 

 

What's the difference between shooting down a parachutist, and shooting down an unarmed Ju-52, now that we have those? Neither can defend itself.

 

 

"Parachutist" generally refers to a paratrooper and it is not forbidden to shoot at paratroopers. What comes to plane crew that has abandoned plane and are falling down on parachutes, they are considered as surrendered and shooting at them would be comparable to shooting at enemy that has laid down arms and risen hands or waving a white flag as a sign of surrender. There was some debate during WWII if it would be ok to shoot at ejected enemy pilots that would land on their own territory, as they would be able to return to battle, but the general perception among pilots (western front) was still that it is comparable to murder. That does not mean that it never happened. 

[Fortis_Leader]

Yeah of course, IRL the Ju would carry supplies and such, but in game? If the player has the Red Cross skin, would it be equally heinous to engage his Ju as if he was descending to Earth in a parachute?

[Guest deleted@30725]

Yeah of course, IRL the Ju would carry supplies and such, but in game? If the player has the Red Cross skin, would it be equally heinous to engage his Ju as if he was descending to Earth in a parachute?

 

You can't get marshaled into a court-martial, sent to firing squad or prison so I guess it does not matter in the game.

 

EDIT - See JG13_opcode

 

\/\/\/\/

Edited March 28, 2017 by deleted@30725

[JG13_opcode]

FYSA it's "court-martial", where martial comes from the Latin word martialis, meaning "of Mars".  Mars was the Roman god of war.

 

As for the poll.... it's a video game, fellas.  Why is this issue so important to people?

Edited March 28, 2017 by JG13_opcode

[Cybermat47]

If the player has the Red Cross skin, would it be equally heinous to engage his Ju as if he was descending to Earth in a parachute?

No, because it's a video game, and there are no wounded personnel onboard, real or in the game.

 

In fact, they would be carrying out the same mission as they would in a standard skin. The only logical reason they would have the red cross would be that they like the skin.

[curiousGamblerr]

Why is this issue so important to people?

 

I've literally had schisms develop within squad communities because of this crap, in the name of "immersion" - i don't flippin get it either

 

You're sitting in a chair in your house, give me a break already, fly and let fly...

Edited March 29, 2017 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Its a simulation of a Major war where people were fighting for their rights to even live

Anything that kills enemy is Acceptable :D (just like in real wars, Not tv wars like last 10 years fake war on terror)

[Fortis_Leader]

Lighting up a vehicle or soldier with the Red Cross on it will see you in front of a court martial just as soon as shooting down parachutists will. If you actually take issue with people doing the latter, you should feel just the same about people doing the former. A bit odd to excuse one (if an excuse indeed is needed) with "it's a video game" but not the other.

 

 

 

And obviously, if you catch a Red Cross Ju-52 dropping paratroopers, that player has just comitted a war crime! You should promptly fly off his right wing and signal for him to land at the nearest of your airfields to await the post conflict war crimes trials.

[CanadaOne]

It's a game of killing and destruction - and people get upset when there is killing and destruction? Mow those chutes like grass. And then fire rockets at whatever hits the ground just to make sure it's dead.

 

If one does not want to be killed in the sky, one should not try to kill others in the sky.

 

Now.. if someone flies his BOS IL2 and hacks into your FSX Cessna flight over the Rockies and shreds you into little tiny bits with cannon fire, well, that's another matter. That's just bloody uncivilized.

[Lusekofte]

This is why many of us do not endeavour on public servers , the WT attitude just kills the immersion and swipe away any motivation you might have had entering. And the fact that people even bother to discuss this. Yeah right it happened in war, but this is a game and you are in my point of view a prick if you do it , no matter what explanation getting served here

[CanadaOne]

So... we can virtually kill each other, but only nicely and in a gentlemanly fashion; blasting each other to bits inside a cockpit with machine gun fire, bodies shredded and burning alive as the plane plummets into the cold hard ground, rendering the occupant unrecognizable paste, because that is "socially acceptable".

 

But once a chute opens, all of that is forgotten and it's best I just give the other fellow a wave of my hand, perhaps pass him a mint and a glass of Chardonnay as I fly by, and wish him a comfortable descent so he can get into another plane and blow me to bits.

 

What an odd war. Interesting though.

[Lusekofte]

I really do not care about the chute kiling at all, it is just the motif of why doing it. I have bigger issues with other type of online behaviour , like taking off right from ramp. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Aap]

What an odd war. Interesting though.

What is odd about it? Personally I find it odd that someone defends chute killing so passionately, despite it being despised by real pilots in WWII, it being a war crime nowodays and it being unsportsmenlike, if you don't take the game as a combat flight sim, but "pixels of a video game".

[CanadaOne]

I simply find it odd that someone who would defend (virtually) pumping a hundred-rounds into another person, shredding him to bits, and sending him into the Earth as a 500kph fireball, considers it unsportsmanlike to end that same person once he is floating in a chute.

 

Especially given that once that person lands, the very first thing he's going to do is get in another plane and come right back up with the express purpose of blasting you and yours into little tiny pieces. Something he will do without a hint of a sniff of a whiff of a second thought.

 

If you like the guy that much, why go up and try to kill him in his plane in the first place. Invite him over for coffee instead and have a nice chat.

[Aap]

It has been covered in this thread already many times. Many people like to play the game as a WWII flight sim. Obviously shooting down enemy planes is an important part of that. Shooting at bailed out crew was however considered comparable to murder by most WWII pilots.

 

Some don't look at it as a flight sim, but rather play it as "pixels of a video game", compare it to Super Mario or Pacman or whatever. That is fine of course. Just don't understand why the chute-kill-fans try to change the simmers views on that matter.

[CanadaOne]

I am neither trying to change your view nor am I saying you are wrong.

 

Just having the conversation.

[Lusekofte]

It is the motif of turning back and shoot the bailed out pilot that I question, not the deed itself. Such persons , well I do not want to have them around me. Shooting down the plane is what we do

[CanadaOne]

If you could shoot down the plane/win the fight with a guaranteed headshot to the pilot right now, or maybe shoot the plane down in a while by destroying the engine, would you not take the heat shot right now?

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

If you feel personally insulted by being killed in your chute or killed at all in the game.

There is medication and shock therapy for mental disorders like that

[Guest deleted@30725]

I wouldn't do it for real.

 

But it's a game so it doesn't matter to me. I'm not DE-sensetized by doing it in the game to then want to do it for real.

 

I generally don't do it in the game because it's a hard target and the plane is a greater threat to save ammo for. But if one comes in the sights I might have a go.

 

I'm still a pretty nice person to be around in the real world. I don't get off on chute killing or sit hunched at my pc with a manic grin every time I get the chance.

 

Even the rest of the people who chute kill in the game probably wouldn't do it for real. Just like those people who play grand theft auto don't suddenly have a desire to drive their car on the side walk and kill hundreds of innocent people, but in the game it's not a problem. They're not changed by doing it in the game.

 

But I can see how people want to emulate history and not kill players while in their chutes as it's part of that history.

Edited April 9, 2017 by deleted@30725

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

All sides did it for real
many of them with pilot laughing and later celebrating it..

This includes all pilots British ,German,American, French, Russian all killed/murdered other pilots like this with some of the worst being those from the Allies

They all shot and killed other pilots in chutes and stuff just few countries admitted it.
also most of the pilots who actually did it would have enjoyed it as it goes with the soldier mentality and lack of morality anyways
its like cops who are always using too much force they enjoy it down there in nether regions..

Edited April 9, 2017 by =R4T=Sshadow14

[Aap]

They all shot and killed other pilots in chutes and stuff just few countries admitted it.

also most of the pilots who actually did it would have enjoyed it as it goes with the soldier mentality and lack of morality anyways

They ALL shot pilots in chutes? Hartmann did? Galland did? Pokryshkin did? Bong did? Johnnie Johnson did? Just because you would do it, does not mean that "all" pilots were murderers or soldier mentality means lack of morality.

Maybe you have had too many of these shock therapies that you suggested and it has fried up your gray cells.