Do you think chutekilling is acceptable ?

[FourFiveOne]

You can rationalize until you are blue but looking at the poll results clearly shows you hold a minority opinion. Poor sportsmanship is poor sportsmanship and most recognize it for what it is.

If the majority held the opinion that using a high yo-yo is cheap and unsporting does that mean that using the high yo-yo is cheap an unsporting? The obvious answer is no. 

 

So the dictation of the majority is a pointless argument. 

 

It's the idea that there is a hard line stance against chute killing and the devaluation of character that makes this so vulgar. Sportsmanship beings and ends with whether or not your cheating and playing fairly, anything else is a pointless construct with an aim only to create divisiveness among the community.  

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

This will be my last post on this. You are attempting an intellectual construct to prove an invalid point regarding chute killing. The reason it is the majority opinion, as most majority opinions are, is because it is reasonable and chute killing violates societal norms.

Majority opinions can of course be flawed. Particularly when they infringe upon rights. This, however, is a majority opinion about inclusion. As such it does not fall into that category.

In this case the reasonableness standards are "community" and "fair play." Your argument plays only to one of those elements and they are symbiotic, not mutually exclusive.

You have made huge assumptions about those who decline to accept your interpretation; that we quit when a douche with questionable character chooses to chute kill in a game. We don't quit. We continue to play and generally make it a point to hunt down said douche. It's a douchey move with little tactical value and absolutely no social benefit. In fact, it is unlikely most would do it at a LAN event because of the possibility of real world repercussions for said antisocial behavior. Just know, when you do it it makes you, well, I think you get the point.

The majority opinion isn't what makes it right. Fair play and FUN for the community is what makes it right. The majority opinion is what confirms most people agree that fair play and non-douchey behavior is what conforms to their idea of how the game should be played.

Rationalizing antisocial behavior is what usually results in being removed from society at large in the real world. Only in the virtual space are there no repercussions for it.

To be fair, I have on occasion done shitty things in the game. Usually when I have played too long and/or gotten angry. I chute killed once and immediately regretted it. I damaged a teammate after he stole a kill and also immediately regretted it. They were shitty things to do BECAUSE they violated community norms.

The high yo-yo is a valid COMBAT tactic in a combat flight simulator. Chute killing is not. We can take any argument to an illogical end. Thats a nice try with the red herring.

Chute killing has the potential to cause divisiveness within the community. NOT chute killing - has no possibility of causing divisiveness within the community.

You are welcome to your intellectual exercise.

Edited August 10, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[Solty]

Whats the difference? It is a game. Have you ever played FPS games? People "murder" or "frag" each other for 30 years and nobody feels guilty. Why would anyone feel guilty of shooting down a bunch of polygons?

 

I don't attack parachutes because it simply doesn't make any sense, you waste ammo to destroy something that has no meaning. Unless parachutes give points, then maybe I should reconsider .

 

Either way, usually that a guy jumps on a chute, I am glad he didn't waste my time anymore, as he was usually beaten anyway.

Edited August 11, 2016 by =LD=Solty

[Lusekofte]

 

 

Whats the difference?

 

you can not compare FPS shooting with turning around and shoot a parachuted pilot. FPS is him or you, this is just being a prick . There is absolutely no reason for doing it. I will not spend any energy if it happens to me, as I said before I just remember that person as long as I am into this game .  

[Solty]

Sure, I've played a lot of different war/FPS games. As far as I can recall none of them involved murdering noncombats or unarmed personnel, at least to where you could actually see it...I exterminated plenty of cities in Rome Total War . It's not really a matter of guilt or feeling morally superior (LOL I'd have a long way to go there), it's just that playing a game that recreates something as awful as war would be depressing as hell to me if it was 'too realistic'.

 

The rest of your post is on point though...killing other players in their chute isn't useful either.

So I see you never had 5 stars in GTA

[Nil]

I voted yes, mainly 'cause it's it's an 'open' poll?! (why?), were everyone can see the results, and spend a lot of time virtually hating the ones admitting they think it's OK.

[Holtzauge]

I voted no. Shooting a pilot who has bailed out is a war crime since 1949 for a good reason. I don't think we should condone or encourage that sort of behaviour even in a virtual world. That this is a game is no excuse. What's next? The game camp commander where you can rise in the ranks from camp guard to commandant if you exterminate enough people?

 

EDIT: OK, so 30% voted yes......... I never would have expected that.............

Edited September 3, 2016 by Holtzauge

[Morgenrot]

As far as I am aware it was unthinkable for a Luftwaffe pilot to shoot an enemy pilot in a chute and I agree with this philosophy. It's simply an act of senseless murder. It should definitely be a possibility in the game for anybody who actually wants to do it though, because 1) it lets everybody know they are a low-life criminal psychopath who is going to Hell and 2) the idiots who choose do it will hopefully get to experience some form of PTSD like say, waking up bolt upright in the middle of the night shouting "noooooo!" in a cold sweat like Clint Eastwood's Vietnam flashbacks in Firefox...

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

It happened in real life but I do not approve of it. However I fully understand that fatigue and personal feelings can in real life overwhelm someone.

If I remember correctly it was not seen favourable when it happened.

[J2_Trupobaw]

It happened commonly on Eastern Front. It wasn't even against laws and customs of war back then. It's completely historically plausible.

It also happens to be war crime for 50? more? years from where we sit. Don't care if it was acceptable 70 years ago, we don't live 70 years ago. Most crimes were acceptable once, not a reason to treat them as OK in games set long enough ago. Chutekilling in WW2 is as ok with me as wifebeating in  SIMs clone set in 1950s . 

 

There was more war crimes commonplace on Easter Front, why don't we recreate them next? How about strafing some refugee column?

Edited September 3, 2016 by Trupobaw

[Sokol1]

As far as I am aware it was unthinkable for a Luftwaffe pilot to shoot an enemy pilot in a chute ...

 

LOL. The history tell different things about this.

[Haza]

From a REAL pilot:  GPCAPT Clive Caldwell  (taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Caldwell)

 

On 4 July 1941, Caldwell saw a German pilot shoot and kill a close friend, Pilot Officer Donald Munro, who was descending to the ground in a parachute.^[9] This was a controversial practice, but was nevertheless common among some German and Allied pilots. One biographer, Kristin Alexander, suggests that it may have caused Caldwell's attitude to harden significantly. Months later, press officers and journalists popularised Caldwell's nickname of "Killer", which he disliked. One reason for the nickname was that he too shot enemy airmen after they parachuted out of aircraft.^[10] Caldwell commented many years later: "... there was no blood lust or anything about it like that. It was just a matter of not wanting them back to have another go at us. I never shot any who landed where they could be taken prisoner."^[10] (In later life, Caldwell said that his thoughts often turned to one Japanese airman or passenger, who survived Caldwell's last aerial victory but could not be rescued.)^[11] A more commonly cited reason for the nickname was his habit of using up ammunition left over at the end of sorties, to shoot up enemy troop convoys and vehicles.^[1][10] During his war service, Caldwell wrote in a notebook: "it's your life or theirs. This is war."^[10]

[Cybermat47]

From a REAL pilot:  GPCAPT Clive Caldwell  (taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Caldwell)

 

On 4 July 1941, Caldwell saw a German pilot shoot and kill a close friend, Pilot Officer Donald Munro, who was descending to the ground in a parachute.^[9] This was a controversial practice, but was nevertheless common among some German and Allied pilots. One biographer, Kristin Alexander, suggests that it may have caused Caldwell's attitude to harden significantly. Months later, press officers and journalists popularised Caldwell's nickname of "Killer", which he disliked. One reason for the nickname was that he too shot enemy airmen after they parachuted out of aircraft.^[10] Caldwell commented many years later: "... there was no blood lust or anything about it like that. It was just a matter of not wanting them back to have another go at us. I never shot any who landed where they could be taken prisoner."^[10] (In later life, Caldwell said that his thoughts often turned to one Japanese airman or passenger, who survived Caldwell's last aerial victory but could not be rescued.)^[11] A more commonly cited reason for the nickname was his habit of using up ammunition left over at the end of sorties, to shoot up enemy troop convoys and vehicles.^[1][10] During his war service, Caldwell wrote in a notebook: "it's your life or theirs. This is war."^[10]

 

That's an actual pilot in an actual war, though.

 

This is just a video game, and chutekilling here either annoys people, or they just don't care.

[Lusekofte]

That's an actual pilot in an actual war, though.

 

This is just a video game, and chutekilling here either annoys people, or they just don't care.

 

This is the point of all that is against chute killings in this topic, my point is the same. Personally I find this conduct so ridiculous , that if encounter it I will forever deem that person as a complete idiot. It will of course have no practical consequence for him, but there you go, he will have one more person in the world not particular fond of his existence  

[FTC_Etherlight]

I still fail to see why people get riled up about this at all. I feel like it's about as serious as sticking out the tongue to someone, or a non-chat way to flip someone the bird. When I got shot in my chute once I merely grinned and thought "little bastard you" and went on. I don't bother with stuff like that and I think I only chutekilled once before and that was a friend I was on Teamspeak with. I probably would do it to someone I find extremely annoying just for the fun of it, but that's only because I really don't see why people take this nonsense so seriously. It's a bit like "teabagging" in a shooter. Is it stupid? Yeah. Is it considered bad manners? Yeah, by some, others do it as a friendly way of trolling. Do I think doing something funny/stupid, depending on perspective, is indicative of someones overall character, morals or maturity? No, get over yourself. People just need to chill.

Edited September 6, 2016 by JG4_Etherlight

[Quax]

It happened in real life but I do not approve of it.

 

Germans and English didn´t do it.

[Cybermat47]

Germans and English didn´t do it.

There were German and British pilots who did do it.

[Gump]

Germans and English didn´t do it.

.

omg lol ...you really are stirring!

[Lusekofte]

I still fail to see why people get riled up about this at all. I feel like it's about as serious as sticking out the tongue to someone, or a non-chat way to flip someone the bird. When I got shot in my chute once I merely grinned and thought "little bastard you" and went on. I don't bother with stuff like that and I think I only chutekilled once before and that was a friend I was on Teamspeak with. I probably would do it to someone I find extremely annoying just for the fun of it, but that's only because I really don't see why people take this nonsense so seriously. It's a bit like "teabagging" in a shooter. Is it stupid? Yeah. Is it considered bad manners? Yeah, by some, others do it as a friendly way of trolling. Do I think doing something funny/stupid, depending on perspective, is indicative of someones overall character, morals or maturity? No, get over yourself. People just need to chill.

 

I do not riled up about it, still I would not understand why anyone would do it, other than being a ashole . So that would be what I think

[FTC_Etherlight]

I do not riled up about it, still I would not understand why anyone would do it, other than being a ashole . So that would be what I think

 

I gave a few likely explanations in my posting. If you cannot fathom any other explanation than "being an asshole"...well, think what you wanna think I guess.

 

To anyone feeling "bothered" by the possibility of being killed in your chute, there is an easy way out: Finish your flight after you bail, problem solved. No need to start a civil war over this stuff.

[Lusekofte]

Yes but your reason´s does not change my conclusion, but that can be a cultural difference. I am well aware of being interactive on inter web make you exposed to most sides of human conduct. It do not affect on my RL . But it is absolutely no reason treating this conduct differently than I would in real life when people treat others badly for no reason at all. Hiding behind a nick in safe homely environment knowing you do not have to meet consequences for disrespect or what we should call this fun. It just shows a , lets say not very brave side of a person 

[Haza]

That's an actual pilot in an actual war, though.

 

This is just a video game, and chutekilling here either annoys people, or they just don't care.

Sorry Mate,

 

This post was just for those who said that real pilots didn't do such things on either side!  It basically covered both sides doing it in one section, so thought it was appropriate.

 

Haza 

[Cybermat47]

Sorry Mate,

 

This post was just for those who said that real pilots didn't do such things on either side!  It basically covered both sides doing it in one section, so thought it was appropriate.

 

Haza

 

Ah, I see, no problem then

[Jade_Monkey]

I dont know if it's acceptable or not, but it's pointless.

 

It doesn't achieve anything other than possibly annoying someone.

[[TWB]80hd]

I don't personally "find it acceptable", or do it, but it's been done to me plenty of times... usually resulting in the chute-killer getting torn a new one by one of my squad mates...

 

That being said, to each their own, if you're role-playing or something, great... but I believe a great number of those taking grand exception to it are doing so for sore ego reasons.

[Muddy]

Oh boy,, the tears are welling up inside me.."sniff, sniff"

In the war this DID happen and more often than anyone wants to speak of it,,, absolutely no difference between a Paratrooper and a downed airman that could get another aircraft and KILL YOUR FRIENDS!

Aircrew are also a threat on the ground behind your own lines as the could perceivably run about creating all kinds of problems for the Ocupation force that YOU are there to support.

 

If nothing else, ,,,,,, its good target practice.

 

As for any reference to ones character ,,, well ,,,, if you truly base ones character off how one plays a video game then why so many play for the Luftwaffe ?

 

And let's not pretend there hands were of some Nobel Knight far removed from there political masters.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Muddy

[novicebutdeadly]

I'm actually curious as to why anyone would waste their time as well as expose themselves to being attacked by the friends of the downed player by hanging around to shoot their chute.

You have had the victory, time to go hunting for more prey, or home for dinner (or some more fire water and fire crackers).


Of course this happened in the war as did a number of other unspeakable things, so unless you want those also incorporated into the game; saying "it happened during the war" is no defense.

If a server allows it (as some did in 1946) again why waste your time??





 

Edited November 4, 2016 by novicebutdeadly

[Sokol1]

Make the virtual pilots "hit-proof" (link the dumb thing in CloD, probable done in this way to fill UbiZ00 wishes)... so no one will be killed hanging in parachute.

But leave the parachute destroyable, will please both sides.   

Edited November 4, 2016 by Sokol1

[Danziger]

I love chute killing! It's almost another game in itself! After wasting some bombers it's good fun picking off the parachutes on the way back down. I didn't kill any real people so nothing to feel guilty about. It's a computer game after all.

[Lusekofte]

yeah new generation of flight simmers....

 

You can just keep BOS, promise not to migrate to DCS and COD , 

[Danziger]

I've got DCS, RoF, Il-2 46, I don't play Call of Duty though. I've been flight simming since 1991 so I guess you're from some really old generation?

 

Can you shoot down parachutes in DCS? That would be a pretty good challenge in a fast jet.

 

I really don't understand the big deal. If you are a casual player like most people then it's just a game no big deal. If you are one of those super hard core reenactors then isn't killing the enemy the number one job?

 

I don't know how many real life wars you've participated in but I can guarantee it's not a sport.

 

You don't have to worry about me shooting your parachute though. I play SP. I've never found a multiplayer game that didn't wind up as people chasing each other in circles killing each other over and over. I get more variety in SP missions and campaigns.

[Lusekofte]

Why should I watch out? I do not fly public servers because of the FPS attitude in them. There is very little cooperation , there are people screaming noobs and cheater every minute, By COD I mean Cliffs over Dover, in general a much more devoted WW2 simmer base. In here you find people like yourself just waiting to stir the pot, and bitchoing at each other .In COD servers, the attitude is a bit more respectful and fun . I fly only orginized event online , where people with attitudes like yours would be banned. A-nd there is no-one that take offence, we just fly on, like you never existed. If I join a public server in BOS, witch seldom happens I do not do GPS servers.

This exclude most people playing around, and the few who is there , I never encountered. So play on, in my previous post I have stated what I think of you, it is not like you ruin the day , not the hour well not even the minute, so just go ahead

Edited November 7, 2016 by 216th_LuseKofte

[Trooper117]

I always play any game with my own self imposed rules... I like to think that I'm one of the good guys... would I kill anyone who had bailed out in real life? Probably not, so I see no reason to do it in game.

Other people have different values and like to play their game in a different way. Does it bother me? Not really.

 

With the advent of a Ju52 dropping paratroopers... that's a different story, as the Geneva convention allows for enemy parachutists that are descending to seize an objective as legitimate targets, so they quite rightly should be engaged!

[Neil]

Happened to me on Random Expert Server.

I am not sure if it is good or not, but sure, it is very pathetic.

That is when you understand there are very miserable players.

[Lusekofte]

They made it so you had to fly resupply mission, rendering you useless for 20 minutes, and yes it is pathetic . But these bitter people need to make life miserable for others so their not the only one

[Moochy_Gandalf]

Chute killing is a punk as** b**ch thing to do.  So if you do it I guess that makes you a punk a** b**ch?  It's prevalent on TAW.

[Danziger]

And if you come here to cry about it I guess that makes you a crybaby?

 

What is the big deal? Does the AI AAA not shoot at your parachute?

[Moochy_Gandalf]

 

 

And if you come here to cry about it I guess that makes you a crybaby?

 

No it makes me not a d**khead.

 

Chute killing other online players when you have already shot them down is the equivalent of this garbage. 

 

[Danziger]

I'm not an online player so maybe I'm wrong but...

 

Isn't the whole point of shooting down parachutists in MP to keep them from becoming a floating "spotter" chatting tactical information to their buddies while they come slowly back down to the ground?

[Moochy_Gandalf]

 

 

Isn't the whole point of shooting down parachutists in MP to keep them from becoming a floating "spotter" chatting tactical information to their buddies while they come slowly back down to the ground?

 

If only that was the case. 

 

There is a annoying trend on some servers where this sim is being treated like some sort of FPS experience. With that comes the we are so" Leet"  attitude of some squads happy to boast in chat about the fact that they are chute killing.

 

Killing an online opponent who is hanging helpless in a chute serves no other purpose than to rub their noses in it.