Oculus Rift CV1 tested in DCS world

[Irgendjemand]

I had a CV1 Oculus here for a few days since my colleague that owns it doesnt have the hardware yet to run it at home. So he gave it to me to test out things. Now he has his hardware incoming so i had to give it back:(

I was flying in DCS world and all sorts of other games but ill stick to describing the DCS VR experience since its what most people here will be interested in. Not to say the other stuff wasnt worth mentioning but its just not the right place. Let me just say its JUST AS awesome as flying in DCS.

 

Guys. Like i always expected. Once you go VR flightsimming you will not go back.

Resolution is enough to read all gauges, make out contacts at up to 8 km range and identify contacts at a range of around 2.5+ km. This has been tested by a friend using tacview in DCS (he fired when he was able to see/identify contact and the firing can be seen in Tacview so he was able to exactly see the distance at that point in time).

I almost pi**edd my pants from excitement when i first sat in the FW in DCS. Guys this is so frikkin awesome. Doing the startup procedure, rolling the thing to the runway and taking off. Absolutely no problem. You can lean out like it was a real airplane. Taking off was so intuitive. I didnt have any problems and that was my frist try to take of f the FW in DCS.

Right now i can not really play BOS or DCS because without VR its just not the same.

 

One thing thats harder than with TIR is staying on the contact visibly. The headtracking is 1:1 and so you actually have to move your head like in the real thing to stay on target. This needs some training, i lost the contact a few times because i just couldnt turn my head that far:) In TIR you just turn the head a few centimeters and have a full 180 degree turn. In VR this is a lot harder but THAT much more immersive!

 

I also tried out the UH 1H Huey. Guys. It feels like flying th real thing. Just AWESOME!

 

If you get the chance you yourself a favor and try it out. But be aware that its VERY likely that when you tried it you will pull the trigger and order whats needed to run your favourite sim in VR.

 

EDIT: On the matter discomfort or motion sickness. Not present. The first minutes you get a little "feeling" in your stomach. I am not sure if it was mostly excitement for me. But i got used to it and short after didnt have any feeling anymore. Even in EVE valkyrie where oyu practically roll and turn all the time and there you dont have an up and down reference the feeling is only there for the first few minutes and then quickly fades.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[Bando]

Thanks for the write up.

You do sound very enthusiastic, so it must have been quite an experience.

 

Lucky you.....

[coconut]

Sounds exciting, I'll have to give in and order the Rift or the Vive...

Question: how is zooming handled? If you don't zoom, isn't that a problem?

 

One problem for me is glasses. I could try without, I see well enough from short distances, but it seems the combination of HMD and glasses doesn't work as well as might have hoped.

[kissklas]

You should be able to fit glasses in the rift. I've tried it with a Vive. Maybe not very large glasses though. Contact lenses is the way to go, though!

 

He is right in being excited, it is a fantastic experience. It's like with headtracking, just a 100 times. It's not just that you don't want to play without it. You genuinely do not want to leave the virtual world. I felt a strange sadness after trying the Vive and going on with my day:-p Maybe post VR depression will be a thing in the future?

 

I am also curious about the zooming bit. It could be like looking through a pair of binoculars, in which case it wouldn't be too bad unless you move a lot.

[Original_Uwe]

What are the hardware requirements?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Someone in chat said it is supposed to be 4K but that is not how I remember the pre-release discussions on this device. How does it compare to a top flight monitor? Up to speed or wait for the next generation. I'm only interested in the resolution part of the discussion. I'm sure the rest is very immersive and fun.

 

Edit: And is there a way to scale them more like a TiR through the software? I don't want to be craning around all the time- I'm kinda old and creaky as it is. I'd rather enjoy my game then get a workout.

Edited April 15, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[unlikely_spider]

Well, that and how to use the keyboard. I'm not familiar with DCS, but with BoS, I need keyboard commands.

[Irgendjemand]

Sounds exciting, I'll have to give in and order the Rift or the Vive...

Question: how is zooming handled? If you don't zoom, isn't that a problem?

 

One problem for me is glasses. I could try without, I see well enough from short distances, but it seems the combination of HMD and glasses doesn't work as well as might have hoped.

Glass fit underneath the rift. No problem. Had some guys here at work trying it out. A little squeezin and it fits.

Also look here:

http://uploadvr.com/vr-lens-lab-unveils-perscription-solutions-for-rift-vive-kickstarter-fulfilled-in-hours/

 

I have glasses for work. Only 0.5 and 0.75. So its mainly because i get headache when i am at the screen for a log day. Not so if i wear glasses.

I went and kickstarted a frame and will get glasses after the kickstarter.

 

On Zoom: There is non. Not that i know of. But in the DCS forums is already numerous people asking for zoom. With Flyinside and FSX there is a zoomfunction that some with there was in DCS. Maybe they implement something like that later on.

Honestly i think its not THAT important. Just imagine that you are already zoomed in full when inside the rift.

The resolution is a little smaller than when you use a 27" WQHD monitor. With the diffrence that youre much closer to the screen, the screen is smaller and the lenses magnify the picture by a factor of 6 or so. So thats the reason for the "screendooreffect". But just try and get close to your 27" display Maybe even use a magnifyingglas. Its just the same. It doesnt bother you because you are used to seeing everything as tiny as a few pixels. in VR you feel as if you were there. Much closer to everything.

he

 

What are the hardware requirements?

re you can read em.

http://wccftech.com/oculus-rift-system-requirements-updated/

 

There is also a tool that checks if your system is compatible or not and tells you what exactly is not compatible.

 

get it here:

http://www.chip.de/downloads/Oculus-Rift-Compatibility-Checker_87863529.html

[Irgendjemand]

Someone in chat said it is supposed to be 4K but that is not how I remember the pre-release discussions on this device. How does it compare to a top flight monitor? Up to speed or wait for the next generation. I'm only interested in the resolution part of the discussion. I'm sure the rest is very immersive and fun.

 

Edit: And is there a way to scale them more like a TiR through the software? I don't want to be craning around all the time- I'm kinda old and creaky as it is. I'd rather enjoy my game then get a workout.

 

I answered your question above.

Should it rather be 4K? Sure. Should you buy one?

Ive been asked quite often and what i say is:

 

If youre a simming enthusiast, have a decent job and get your finances together so that 700 bucks dont hurt you then it woudl be stupid not to get one (IMHO)

If you have to invest bigtime to get the horsepower AND buy the rift and thenon top of that the money would keep you from going to vacation this year you should probably better wait on the next iteration.

I read they already hire staff for the development. But to expext any new iteration before the end of next year is delusinal i think.

 

On the scale: You dont want that. Causes disorientation and ultimately leads to motion sickness. A zoom (if analog) would do so as well. Thats why people suggest a one or maybe three step zoon so that it feels like you look thru a binocular. Sudden maginficationchanges dont bother you sicknesswise.

Well, that and how to use the keyboard. I'm not familiar with DCS, but with BoS, I need keyboard commands.

You can peek underneath the rift (around the nose). So if you place they keyboard good you can use this as a silution.

Better solution is to get a hotas with more buttons and learn to use it blind.

Next solution is DCS got klickable cockpits. You can do every function the plane has by the pressing corresponding cockpitbutton with your mouse.

 

I really hope BOS gets support in quickly. Its really totally awesome.

Sounds exciting, I'll have to give in and order the Rift or the Vive...

Question: how is zooming handled? If you don't zoom, isn't that a problem?

 

One problem for me is glasses. I could try without, I see well enough from short distances, but it seems the combination of HMD and glasses doesn't work as well as might have hoped.

Better the Rift. Only upside of the Vive is the motion controllers. And for the rift "Touch" is incoming.

In every other aspect the rift is better. See here:

 

And no, I am not an employee of Oculus:)

I am jsut totally blown away:)

Edited April 15, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[kissklas]

Someone in chat said it is supposed to be 4K but that is not how I remember the pre-release discussions on this device. How does it compare to a top flight monitor? Up to speed or wait for the next generation. I'm only interested in the resolution part of the discussion. I'm sure the rest is very immersive and fun.

 

Edit: And is there a way to scale them more like a TiR through the software? I don't want to be craning around all the time- I'm kinda old and creaky as it is. I'd rather enjoy my game then get a workout.

It's not 4K. Technically it's running two 1080*1200 screens in portrait mode. But that does not mean you will see 2160 pixels in the width.

 

Your brain stitches these together for you in an overlapping fashion so that you see depth. Just like when you are looking at something in the real world. So you would perceive it as a little more than 1080*1200 (close to the resolution of a single 4:5 LCD screen from the 2000s for reference.)

 

However, you will not see pixels in the same way as you would if you stuck your head close to a 4:5 monitor. Due to filters that bleed the colour over the pixel borders, pixel density, lenses, and the fact that your brain compiles two images with a small offset into one, you look right "through" the pixels and you can focus on elements in the distance. You can (if you really try) focus on the grid between the pixels. It looks more like a fine sieve than lines of pixels. But your brain blocks that out when you look at elements in your surrounding.

 

What this can mean for spotting is that you might see the dots in the sky later, but keeping your eyes on it, judging its distance, following it against a background, and reading markings at speed might actually be easier.

 

More than 1:1 head translation would get you motion sick. The idea is to fool the brain into believing you are there, by mimicking your head movements perfectly. I would gladly turn around 180 degrees to check six, if it means I get to perceive scale and perspective like in real life. Like you said, Immersion!

 

Best,

Klas

Edited April 15, 2016 by kissklas

[JG27_Chivas]

Someone in chat said it is supposed to be 4K but that is not how I remember the pre-release discussions on this device. How does it compare to a top flight monitor? Up to speed or wait for the next generation. I'm only interested in the resolution part of the discussion. I'm sure the rest is very immersive and fun.

 

Edit: And is there a way to scale them more like a TiR through the software? I don't want to be craning around all the time- I'm kinda old and creaky as it is. I'd rather enjoy my game then get a workout.

 

VR is no where near 4K. In fact its less than optimal.

A 4K monitor has no where near the immersion of a VR headset.  You'll no longer care about your 4K monitor once you try VR.

You can't scale 1:1 movement, if you could you probably get motion sickness very quickly

I'm kinda old as well so turning to check six will be a huge problem, BUT I also need the workout, and the extra stretching might improve my golf game  

[Original_Uwe]

Ya, I'm not buying a new processor that as of now still kicks ass just for this unproven gimmic.

[kissklas]

Ya, I'm not buying a new processor that as of now still kicks ass just for this unproven gimmic.

 

Would not worry about the CPU not being up to par. CPU requirements are usually not very accurate. I'm running a 5-6 year years old first gen i7 OC'd to 4.2ghz and I max out pretty much everything I play with a res of 4040*1024 over 3 screens. It's usually the 970 that maxes out for me.

 

What CPU are you running Uwe?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Eh, I'm running a Q8200 at stock speeds until I get a new video card for the new PC and by all means I only have trouble with 10+ AI multi-crewed bombers, whereas MP bomber formations are fine. The 1GB GT120 however gives me a headache.

[SharpeXB]

Reading some of the feedback there on DCS reflects everything I've read about VR to date.

It's very very demanding. And it's not tolerant of any stuttering or low rates which would be acceptable on a monitor.

And it seems no complex flight sim game engine, even EDGE is going to get a constant 90 FPS on any hardware available today.

Not with all the objects and large maps and physics etc. This load is all falling on the CPU and those aren't getting exponentially faster.

DX11 in EDGE helps quite a bit but not enough.

My specs below won't get me a constant 90 FPS in any of these sims.

So VR is always going to preset a compromise to the player. Go with Ultra level graphics in 2D or get 1/3rd of that in VR

It's gong to be a continual moving target as graphics always are in PC gaming. VR is always going to mean a choice between eye candy and virtual immersion. But you won't be able to have both.

[Original_Uwe]

Would not worry about the CPU not being up to par. CPU requirements are usually not very accurate. I'm running a 5-6 year years old first gen i7 OC'd to 4.2ghz and I max out pretty much everything I play with a res of 4040*1024 over 3 screens. It's usually the 970 that maxes out for me.

 

What CPU are you running Uwe?

I7 2600K @ 4.5ghz. GPU is a 980.

Edit: but if, as the post above indicates, 90fps is what is needed for naturally smooth gameplay then that's just not going to happen for me. I rarely drop below 57fps, but 90 seems a long way off.

Edited April 15, 2016 by II./JG53_Uwe

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I thought the human eye cannot distinguish anything above 60-70 fps. Why is 90 required?

[SharpeXB]

I thought the human eye cannot distinguish anything above 60-70 fps. Why is 90 required?

http://iq.intel.com/the-technical-challenges-of-virtual-reality/

[JG27_Chivas]

Reading some of the feedback there on DCS reflects everything I've read about VR to date.

It's very very demanding. And it's not tolerant of any stuttering or low rates which would be acceptable on a monitor.

And it seems no complex flight sim game engine, even EDGE is going to get a constant 90 FPS on any hardware available today.

Not with all the objects and large maps and physics etc. This load is all falling on the CPU and those aren't getting exponentially faster.

DX11 in EDGE helps quite a bit but not enough.

My specs below won't get me a constant 90 FPS in any of these sims.

So VR is always going to preset a compromise to the player. Go with Ultra level graphics in 2D or get 1/3rd of that in VR

It's gong to be a continual moving target as graphics always are in PC gaming. VR is always going to mean a choice between eye candy and virtual immersion. But you won't be able to have both.

 

One sim that could be a very good candidate for VR is Cliffs of Dover.  I recently ran some fps test with COD running a 980TI.  I set the graphic to the HIGHEST setting,  and flew over London which is very demanding.    I averaged 50fps, but when I just turned the BUILDINGS from UNLIMITED to HIGH, I averaged 130 fps, which should be enough even with the frame drop in VR.  Over water I averaged a few hundred fps.   Team Fusion is working on Rift support which they hope to add to their V5 update, which will probably come out sometime this year.  I think they were hoping for the middle of this year, but it got pushed back.

[coconut]

Regarding the 90FPS requirement, apparently it's possible to "cheat" and do full 3d rendering at 45FPS, and fill in the other 45FPS using some other cheaper technique. OR is using that and it's supposedly one of the big advantages over the Vive, but the Vive is getting a similar technique soon (or already has, maybe?).

 

In any case, even if it came down to that I would be willing to accept flying in a flat-shaded cartoon world. What makes a flight sim is mostly the flight model, the damage model and visibility. Atmospheric effects and high-res textures are nice, but completely irrelevant during combat.

 

Also, the rendering FPS and physics simulation FPS are normally not coupled, although it's not uncommon for poorly programmed games to couple them.

Edited April 16, 2016 by coconut

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Perfectly willing to wait for a variety of reasons. Let's see where we are in price and tech in another two to five years.

Edited April 16, 2016 by [LBS]HerrMurf

[chiliwili69]

@@SharpeXB

 

reading your link:

http://iq.intel.com/...irtual-reality/

 

They say that the extra cost factor of VR is 1.4 to 2 depending on the device.

 

About a year ago I was making a test with my current rig to check the performance of BOS for VR. I posted in the forum:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17073-will-single-gtx970-be-enough-run-bos-vr/

 

It was not the worst BOS scenario, but I just wanted to check what is the performance at "normal" conditions.

 

My current rig is about 1.5 years old, but it will be more than enough for most of VR games this year.

 

 

Yes, maybe you will need to decrease your settings from 2D to VR, but what you gain in inmersion is by far exceeding the setting decrease.

 

This year most of us will try a flight sim in VR, (from a friend, or in a fair, or in stores) and then we will not want to think about monitors and TIR anymore. My two cents.

 

Also hopefully BOS/ROF will eventually run in the Vive!!

[chiliwili69]

Many thanks Irgendjemand for giving your impressions about the CV1 on DCS. As you said, there is no go back.

 

But for the short term it is very unlikely that BOS/ROF is implemented for the Rift.

 

According tto Jason previous post, the Dev team should be working on the Vive support right now.

[Irgendjemand]

Many thanks Irgendjemand for giving your impressions about the CV1 on DCS. As you said, there is no go back.

 

But for the short term it is very unlikely that BOS/ROF is implemented for the Rift.

 

According tto Jason previous post, the Dev team should be working on the Vive support right now.

I had to give the rift back to my collegue and everytime i try and fly on my monitor i am like "nah, sucks". Just flat:)

Really looking forward to getting my rift sometime in May i hope.

 

On BOS and Rift support. I despreately hope they get not only the Vive working.

Rift actually got better image quality and much better wearcomfort for extended sessions.

Dont to turn this into a Rift vs. Vive discussion please.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Irgendjemand

[SharpeXB]

@@SharpeXB

 reading your link:

http://iq.intel.com/...irtual-reality/

 

They say that the extra cost factor of VR is 1.4 to 2 depending on the device.

 

Oculus own assessment is that it's 3x as demanding as 1080p

https://www.oculus.com/en-us/blog/powering-the-rift/

Safe to say many of the early reviews you read about using these headsets are from people who don't meet, or barely meet the specs.

Also the minimum spec is just that. The minimum is probably not sufficient to fly over DCS Las Vegas at 90fps. Better GPUs are coming so that can change.

[JG27_Chivas]

Cliffs of Dover's Team Fusion are suggesting they may a solution, that if it works, might take a much smaller  percent hit on frame rates.  As usual its a WIP with absolutely no guarantees.

Edited April 17, 2016 by JG27_Chivas

[RAY-EU]

Oculus CV1 : Good Imersion & Track view : you do not lose the enemy in dogfight is very good and if you control well the plane you can do better acrobat move to be behind the enemy , you have more constant where is the enemy every time if it is behind you for better trach head movements and imersion .

 

The worse think : the reason in DCS I leave the CV1 and do not used the definition CV1 HD . While the inmersion is faboulous you realise the details of definition are not good so . I thought at that moment: what is the best graphic game with best resolution and which could be the best virtual helmet ¿ For dogfight I Thought best graphic sim Il2 BOS with A Helmet CV2 or better 4k ( does not exist) this could be very funny in Il2 BOS ...

 

and for DCS like future F18 C or Eurofighter for the reason of The MDF s to selec objectives with maveriks + from a 4k and 8k should be very very Good for MDF s Ground Attack because in Cv1 Oculus in the Warthog A10 C you do not see well the images of tanks , building in the MDF plane monitor obtical objective to use the Mavericks .

[SYN_Skydance]

I've already ordered my Rift but I won't get it until August.

 

I currently have a Samsung Gear VR that I use with my Galaxy S6. I am very impressed so far. Does anyone know how the Rift compares to the Gear?

[SYN_Haashashin]

Hi guys, I just moved this topic.

 

All DCS related discussions (such as testing OR CV1 with it) should be taking place here.

 

Sorry for the late move since this topic have been up for a while.

 

On topic, I wish I could afford OR... Im sure I will buy it with no hesitation if I could.

 

Haash

Edited April 21, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin
Fixed a mistake.

[RAY-EU]

So since my point of view if you had a virtual Helmet of 4 K (that does not exist ) a CV2 is like =a 1/2 half 4k the resolution that you see : it seens like and HD . I do not why ? But it has the aspect less resolution . I had impression the CV 2 you should see like HD monitor definition

I test the CV1 Oculus and In DCS can not see well the MDF monitors of the warthog A10 C the images do not disting well thanks , trees or buildings

by this way the CV2 I should mention il should be better for dogfight with better grafics with the sim Il2 BOS ...

I have miopia And is better for me , for the virtual Helmet , with miopía I can see more datailet the objects closer than a person with normal view for more time and my view do not get tired , so with miopia I can stay more time with the virtual helmet than a person with normal view because my view takes more time to get tired . For example I have now the tablet at 2 inches distace and see better image datails than a person of normal view , and I never get tired , While a person with normal view gets tired before I with the virtual helmet because I have miopia .

I have talk years with Oftalmologa The Dr of the view that in this case is a very beautiful Dra . & We prepared I especial lents for the Oculus Cv1 years ago ( the Oculus CV 1 wear 3 pairs of diferent lents for differents kinds of eye view for theses reasons ) right Now we are working in a 2 pairs of personal optical lents at my measure for my miopia personal caracteristics for the Virtual Helmet HTC ViVe and we are Working on it .....

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

 

All DCS related discussions (such as testing OR CV1 with it) should be taking place here.

 

-snip-

Cool, but this isn't a DCS related discussion - it's a discussion about OR CV1.

 

Nor does it justify deleting two other threads...

Edited April 21, 2016 by SYN_Haashashin
Quoted corrected since it was quoted before I correct my wrong wording.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Cool, but this isn't a DCS related discussion - it's a discussion about OR CV1.

Mmmm I'm reading the topic name wrong or it says it's about the testing of OR CV1 in DCS??. It's very clear it's a DCS related discussion along with OR of course.

 

Nor does it justify deleting two other threads...

Also, you know very well the rules and you know you can't discuss mod actions and typing it smaller doesn't make it go, rule 6. So if you want to know what happened with those topics you should contact the OP and ask him.

[Urra]

Can the CV1 currently utilize two nvidia cards (one for each eye) if they are available?

[Irgendjemand]

Can the CV1 currently utilize two nvidia cards (one for each eye) if they are available?

Driverwise it can. AFAIK no developer utilizes it - yet.

[Lusekofte]

Thx for the info, I read one thing.  Do not try it

 

I know how it works , you cannot go back ever. I will not fly without my trackIr and if I test out this I will be the same.

I simply cannot get new rig and OR into the family budget, I also see big problems with the controls flying bombers. This will force me to change and remove a pretty expensive setup. 

I understand those who cannot wait, but DCS and WT is just not for me. But I understand people who do

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

Somebody knows I'm right. 

[coconut]

ill wait for an application that turns your mobil phone into a better oculus rift, when it comes out peoples gonna regret wasting money in such a way as the or

That sounds like GearVR, with the difference it can't be qualified as better. Often forgotten in these discussions when people say VR is not affordable.

[SYN_Skydance]

If you've got a mobile phone with a good screen resolution then give Google cardboard a try.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2016 by SYN_Skydance

[Gump]

wow. I should have avoided reading this. I thought I was doing well enough (except for my controller). dang it.

.

kinda funny, though, as the computerized world, even as is, is already making 'zombies' out of us all. many of us already speak more with online strangers than we do our family and friends....

...

...and then I hear of virtual *ex. ... for goodness sake...please don't post a review of that! although, if the virtual trend continues, we may have no other choice! actually, there may be advantages in a 'virtual' (vs real life) wife   !

....

... well, I want to try one now (because of these raves about flight sims, of course). but I only have RoF and BoS, and I don't have access to a 'loaner'. guess i'll be waiting, being confined to real life and a real wife for a while.

[Mastermariner]

 https://www.facebook.com/Everyday-Gamers-553244038084789/

 

Looks really cool

 

Master