Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War

[JG27_Mainz]

15 minutes ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

S!

 

Campaign app update:

New BRA command. Use either <bra (for metric units output) or <brai (for imperial units output) to get closest enemy bearings (bearing, range, altitude and heading) if any are:

- within range of the radar stations (which can be destroyed... )

- high enough (going really low will hide you from the radar)

You need to be spawned in an airplane, so that the server can calculate the bearing to the targets.

What's the range of detection on the radar station?

[LLv34_Untamo]

1 hour ago, JG27_Mainz said:

What's the range of detection on the radar station?

 

100km

[FeuerFliegen]

7 hours ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

S!

 

Campaign app update:

New BRA command. Use either <bra (for metric units output) or <brai (for imperial units output) to get closest enemy bearings (bearing, range, altitude and heading) if any are:

- within range of the radar stations (which can be destroyed... )

- high enough (going really low will hide you from the radar)

You need to be spawned in an airplane, so that the server can calculate the bearing to the targets.

 

Just like a real radar, does it shoot out in a diagonal pattern, so that your altitude also depends on distance to radar?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

10 hours ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

S!

 

Campaign app update:

New BRA command. Use either <bra (for metric units output) or <brai (for imperial units output) to get closest enemy bearings (bearing, range, altitude and heading) if any are:

- within range of the radar stations (which can be destroyed... )

- high enough (going really low will hide you from the radar)

You need to be spawned in an airplane, so that the server can calculate the bearing to the targets.

 

In other news.... Allied bombers rendered from 75% useless to 100%....

[LLv34_Temuri]

8 hours ago, FeuerFliegen said:

Just like a real radar, does it shoot out in a diagonal pattern, so that your altitude also depends on distance to radar?

The range is just a radius from the radar location. The altitude where the radar detects is the same in all ranges.

[LLv34_Untamo]

5 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

In other news.... Allied bombers rendered from 75% useless to 100%....

 

Don't worry, allies can use the same command. So... axis bombers are now also useless? ?

[ulmar]

Where radar placed usually? Airbases?

[LLv34_Untamo]

8 minutes ago, ulmar said:

Where radar placed usually? Airbases?

 

Not at airbases, but somewhere around them.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

11 hours ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

 

Don't worry, allies can use the same command. So... axis bombers are now also useless? ?

 I wish that was the case but, I'd have to write way more than you'd probably care to read only to have a moderator move my response to the FM/DM Complaints section where it will never be seen or reviewed.  

Let's just say that Bf-110 treetop under-the-radar lawnmowers (both models) can output just as much damage as an A-20 - by FVP's own stats.  I won't get started about how Ju-88s and He-111 are so exploitable that a player who knows how will almost never be caught by any Allied fighter before planeset #5 but, like I said in my first sentence there's no point in going on about it.

[HazMatt]

11 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 planeset #5

What's this?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

5 minutes ago, HazMatt said:

What's this?

 The progressing plane sets listed on the FVP page.  The current mission information tab tells you what plane set is in use for the mission.  The information tab shows the detailed list. 

[HazMatt]

Ah. Thanks. Still kinda new here so lots of questions.

 

I tried this server once when I first started but there was some guy named Snowflake there that didn't seem very friendly to new guys so I went to Combatbox instead.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1 hour ago, HazMatt said:

Ah. Thanks. Still kinda new here so lots of questions.

 

I tried this server once when I first started but there was some guy named Snowflake there that didn't seem very friendly to new guys so I went to Combatbox instead.

 

Well, simulated fighter jocks do often times have "simulated" fighter jock egos.  I hope it doesn't deter you from playing on the servers you want to play on.  

[LLv34_Untamo]

8 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 I wish that was the case but, I'd have to write way more than you'd probably care to read only to have a moderator move my response to the FM/DM Complaints section where it will never be seen or reviewed.  

Let's just say that Bf-110 treetop under-the-radar lawnmowers (both models) can output just as much damage as an A-20 - by FVP's own stats.  I won't get started about how Ju-88s and He-111 are so exploitable that a player who knows how will almost never be caught by any Allied fighter before planeset #5 but, like I said in my first sentence there's no point in going on about it.

 

So, this might somewhat balance what the IL-2s do, by that same ranking. But most likely it will affect both sides equally. Remember that the BRA gives the closest enemy cons (most likely someone over the frontlines), not the one that might hit the depots later on (most likely taking a long route).

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

2 hours ago, LLv34_Untamo said:

 

So, this might somewhat balance what the IL-2s do, by that same ranking. But most likely it will affect both sides equally. Remember that the BRA gives the closest enemy cons (most likely someone over the frontlines), not the one that might hit the depots later on (most likely taking a long route).

 I suppose we shall see.  I've found that "taking a long route" just doesn't yield enough damage output for the time given with Allied long-range bombing and RTB compared to Axis being able to fly directly to the target with very little that can gain the altitude AND be fast enough to catch them.  I've also never seen an IL-2 be able to take out 50+ targets in one sortie like a 110G, Ju88 or He-111 can but, whatever.... I suppose....

[ulmar]

Should rescue work if you activated #r not before the start of the mission, but during the flight? I didn’t succeed, I received a search task, but after landing no counter turned on. although I knew exactly the drop place place and also traveled around

 

UPD: Interestingly, after landing at a friendly airfield, I received the “emergency landing” status and a new rescue mission to first point of rescue.

UPD2: After that, I once again received an offer to take rescue, took it, successfully made a pickup, and pilot was saved.

UPD3: But on stats pilot was captured and in hindsight.

Edited February 20, 2024 by ulmar

[ITAF_Cymao]

14 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

how Ju-88s and He-111 are so exploitable that a player who knows how will almost never be caught by any Allied fighter before planeset #5

 

3 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Allied long-range bombing and RTB compared to Axis being able to fly directly to the target with very little that can gain the altitude AND be fast enough to catch them

Can you explain these two statements? Please could you be more specific? Can you please explain to us why German bombers can fly direct and red bombers cannot?

Can you also explain to us in detail why German bombers would be faster than Allies bombers, why Allies fighters can almost never catch up to German bombers.

Now I imagine you will show us the speeds of a Lagg, of a Yak 1, of a Sptifire MKV, of a La5 finally of all the red fighters from set 1 to set 4 which can almost never catch a Ju88 or an H111 and you also will show us the speeds of German bombers and Allied bombers?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

've also never seen an IL-2 be able to take out 50+ targets in one sortie

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/sortie/3769258/?tour=69

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/sortie/3828228/?tour=72

 

 

S!

 

[LLv34_Untamo]

8 hours ago, ulmar said:

Should rescue work if you activated #r not before the start of the mission, but during the flight? I didn’t succeed, I received a search task, but after landing no counter turned on. although I knew exactly the drop place place and also traveled around

 

UPD: Interestingly, after landing at a friendly airfield, I received the “emergency landing” status and a new rescue mission to first point of rescue.

UPD2: After that, I once again received an offer to take rescue, took it, successfully made a pickup, and pilot was saved.

UPD3: But on stats pilot was captured and in hindsight.

 

No, you have to accept the rescue mission before spawning in. Spawning before writing #r to chat forfeits the attempt -> the downed pilot is subjected to the old "dice roll" mechanic, chance to escape is proportional to the depth in enemy territory.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

9 hours ago, ITAF_Cymao said:

 

Can you explain these two statements? Please could you be more specific? Can you please explain to us why German bombers can fly direct and red bombers cannot?

Can you also explain to us in detail why German bombers would be faster than Allies bombers, why Allies fighters can almost never catch up to German bombers.

Now I imagine you will show us the speeds of a Lagg, of a Yak 1, of a Sptifire MKV, of a La5 finally of all the red fighters from set 1 to set 4 which can almost never catch a Ju88 or an H111 and you also will show us the speeds of German bombers and Allied bombers?

Thanks

 

 

 

 

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/sortie/3769258/?tour=69

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/sortie/3828228/?tour=72

 

 

S!

 

 

Interestingly enough, I was referring to your sorties for 110 and Ju88 damage. Here are some of the highlights.

(Incredible job, by the way.)

 

November 2023 (Same month as the Il-2 scores 50+ stats you show)

Sortie: 27.11.2023 - 10:24 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats)

Sortie: 29.11.2023 - 07:35 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats)

Sortie: 24.11.2023 - 07:59 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats)

Sortie: 21.11.2023 - 21:35 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats)

Multiple other ground kills runs for 110E and G at 30+

 

December 2023:

 

Sortie: 22.12.2023 - 23:22 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats)  - 108 ground kills!!!!

Sortie: 11.12.2023 - 01:08 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 84 ground kills!!!

Multiple other ground kill runs for 110E and G at 30+, 40+, 50+, and 60+.  

Multiple Ju88 A4 runs scoring highly as well.

1 He111 run at 60gk.

 

January 2024:

Sortie: 31.01.2024 - 21:39 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 71 gk

Sortie: 29.01.2024 - 22:20 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 83 gk

Sortie: 04.01.2024 - 06:22 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 118 gk!!!!!!!!

 

Ju88 C6 Sortie: 16.01.2024 - 23:26 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 50gk

Multiple other ground kill runs for 110G at 30+, 40+, 50+, 60+ and even 70+.  

Some Ju-88 C6 ground kill runs for 30+, 40+, and 50+.  

 

_____

 

As I said "...a player who knows how.... (to exploit these planes)".  

 

As for why Ju-88s and He-111s can go directly to target is simple:  Their in-game performance does not match the specifications given in the in-game information tab. 

They can both fly at 8km+ (well above the listed service ceiling). At 6km, all the fighters you list are out of breath and not fast enough to either intercept or avoid the gunners. Either that, or the fighter's diving rip speed will kill it first.

Max rip dive speed for the Ju-88 A4 (not sure about C6) is ~730kph - 100kph faster than what is listed. Even at that, the ailerons almost always rip first and with careful flying the 88 pilot can keep the tail surfaces and even land safely.  Tail rip speed is slightly higher.  The real rip speed is almost the same, or much better than the fighters you listed - which do adhere to the information tab in-game. 

Regardless, let's say that the altitude is around 3-4km.  Yes, then the fighter you list can catch the Ju-88 but, slowly.  This becomes especially clear when the Ju-88 goes into a shallow dive and reduces the closure speed so much that the fighters listed are locked-up by speed and sitting ducks for the rear gunners (Even rookie AI can make the shot) or the fighter rips itself trying to be just a little faster and dies.  Keep in mind that Axis rear gunners on every plane model (88, 110, 111, 87 etc.) generally have better guns and much more ammo than the 2 Allies bombers in-game.  

 

I admit to knowing a bit less about the He-111 but, I can tell you that when used at its highest altitude or used in a shallow dive to defend itself, nothing in the early Allied plane set can adequately catch it without being shot or ripping itself apart, not even the MiG-3 - which should be in plane set #1 anyway.  

 

Meanwhile, both the A-20 and Pe-2 are no match for a single 109, any model, at any altitude and honestly that the gunners on either of these planes make any kills is just shocking. Most of the time they hit nothing, hit for insignificant damage, run out of ammo without hitting, don't even aim at the target correctly or are killed from long-range before they can even return fire.  Even with a max-speed dive, there's no way either of these planes will challenge the rip or lock-up speed of 109s. The problem of not being able to close the distance fast enough to increase evasion of the gunners is simply not a problem Axis fighters have.

 

I have already made a FM complaint that the 88s and 111s +others outperform their in-game listed information in the appropriate forum section months ago and apparently nobody cares so.... make of it what you will.

 

As for the server:  Bomber airstarts do give both sides a boost when driving directly to the target but, I say that "boost" most certainly favors Axis now with this radar system in place. Allied bombers without proper escort, and I mean many more than 1 fighter buddy tagging along, simply cannot defend themselves adequately and do not put out GK per hour anywhere near the Axis bombers and attackers when they have 1 (maybe 2) flights per mission period to take "the long way". 

 

Meanwhile, Axis has not only bombers that can defend themselves (not perfect but much better than Allies), they have an entire suite of other attackers and heavy fighters that not only can output much heavier ground damage than Allies on a much more consistent average, they can dogfight adequately too.  Sure, Pe-2s, A-20s and Il-2s can pull out a few good moves but, let's not kid ourselves.  A single 110 with a good pilot can easily kill them all in a 3v1. 

[ITAF_Cymao]

8 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

As I said "...a player who knows how.... (to exploit these planes)".

Don't you think this applies to both sides?

 

8 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Interestingly enough, I was referring to your sorties for 110 and Ju88 damage. Here are some of the highlights

 

Sortie: 22.12.2023 - 23:22 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats)  - 108 ground kills!!!! Rearm and refuelling

Sortie: 11.12.2023 - 01:08 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 84 ground kills!!       Rearm and refuelling

Sortie: 29.01.2024 - 22:20 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 83 gk                      Rearm and refuelling

Sortie: 04.01.2024 - 06:22 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 118 gk!!!!!!!!             Rearm and refuelling

 

I really think we're talking about 2 different games, If you knew how the server where you got my stats works from, you would know that we have the possibility of landing at a temporary open airfield, rearming the plane and returning to enemy targets again and all of this is part of a single mission. But you don't know this otherwise you wouldn't have posted half of my missions. Just like I did in the previous post.

 

However your problem is not the planes but the pilots.

You complain and cry that there are good pilots on the German side and make up problems related to German planes. Take a tour of the axis and you will discover new ways to use the A20s, or the Pe2s or the IL2s. If I were like you I would say they look like UFOs and I confess that sometimes I think so.

 

Then I asked you for specific data to support your bizarre ideas, but you wrote a lot without saying anything.

Are you telling us that a P40 can't follow a Ju88 in a dive? Are you telling us this?

That a Lagg can't do that?

That a P39 can't do that?

If with an Allies plane you can't catch an H111 or a Ju88 loaded with bombs even at high altitude, it's your problem that you don't know how to use the machines you have available, don't complain about the performance if the only missing performance is that of the pilot.

 

S!

 

 

[ulmar]

9 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

As for the server:  Bomber airstarts do give both sides a boost when driving directly to the target but, I say that "boost" most certainly favors Axis now with this radar system in place.

I’m also pretty afraid of radars, but why do you think that a blue bomber can ignore it?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 2/21/2024 at 3:49 AM, ITAF_Cymao said:

Don't you think this applies to both sides?

 

 

Sortie: 22.12.2023 - 23:22 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats)  - 108 ground kills!!!! Rearm and refuelling

Sortie: 11.12.2023 - 01:08 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 84 ground kills!!       Rearm and refuelling

Sortie: 29.01.2024 - 22:20 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 83 gk                      Rearm and refuelling

Sortie: 04.01.2024 - 06:22 / ITAF_Cymao / VirtualPilots (IL2 stats) - 118 gk!!!!!!!!             Rearm and refuelling

 

I really think we're talking about 2 different games, If you knew how the server where you got my stats works from, you would know that we have the possibility of landing at a temporary open airfield, rearming the plane and returning to enemy targets again and all of this is part of a single mission. But you don't know this otherwise you wouldn't have posted half of my missions. Just like I did in the previous post.

 

However your problem is not the planes but the pilots.

You complain and cry that there are good pilots on the German side and make up problems related to German planes. Take a tour of the axis and you will discover new ways to use the A20s, or the Pe2s or the IL2s. If I were like you I would say they look like UFOs and I confess that sometimes I think so.

 

Then I asked you for specific data to support your bizarre ideas, but you wrote a lot without saying anything.

Are you telling us that a P40 can't follow a Ju88 in a dive? Are you telling us this?

That a Lagg can't do that?

That a P39 can't do that?

If with an Allies plane you can't catch an H111 or a Ju88 loaded with bombs even at high altitude, it's your problem that you don't know how to use the machines you have available, don't complain about the performance if the only missing performance is that of the pilot.

 

S!

 

 

 

Ok, I'll admit I was mistaken. However, the overall summary of the sortie doesn't really indicate that refuel and rearm was used.  Only looking at the events log shows that - if you know what you're looking at.  That said, of the two 100+ sorties I listed, you only R-and-R'd once per sortie. That breaks down to 2 sorites, for 2 flights each sortie for 50+gks each flight, for a total of 4 50+gk flights.  I can show many other single-flight sorties where the 110 puts out this much damage on a regular basis.   

On the other hand of the 2 IL-2 sorties that you showed for 50+ each, one of those was a R-and-R for 2 flights.  That makes only 1 single-flight sortie to accomplish this. I hope you can show more.  Furthermore, if it wasn't for you pointing out my mistake mis-reading the sortie summary pages, I wouldn't have discovered that you made the same mistake and you made it first.  

 

As far as the P-40 and P-39: You didn't ask about these until now.  I responded to the planes you did list originally. (Lagg, of a Yak 1, of a Sptifire MKV, of a La5) 

The Ju-88 and He-111 can both comfortably fly at 7km-8km. P-40 and P-39 are out of breath by 6km, just like almost every other Allied plane in the first 4 plane sets.  Instead of diving past them, climb. If you do dive past them, they had better have a head start to actually reach a usable closure speed once the 88s blow past them already at 700kph by the time they come down to 6km.

In set #1 only the Hurricane can climb that high and is way too slow once it's up there. It also has the worst rip speed of any fighter - unless you count the Po-2 as a fighter. 

In set 2# the MiG-3 (which should be in plane set 1) can climb that high and has good speed but, a simple shallow dive away leaves only the option for 6 o'clock attack and a closure rate so small that you're basically frozen in place for the gunners to shoot at.  This also applies to the Yaks (all of them) LaGG, P-40 and P-39 if you're being approached while at their (good altitude). 

In set #3 the Spitfire Mk.V experiences the same problem as the MiG-3 but has a worse rip speed.  We also get the Mosquito but that was purposefully designed to be mid-altitude patroller or a low-level infiltrator.  

By set #4 there's Finally the P-47 which is about the only true threat to the J-88 and He-111 at 8km - if it can get up there in time and still has the fuel to fight.  (maybe the update makes this a little better) It would also help if the toughest plane engine in the war wasn't being spit on by the devs and a single 5.56 round didn't stop it cold in 1 second flat.   The P-38 can climb that high and is certainly fast enough but, once you recognize it's a P-38, you just dive away and hope the P-38 pilot forgot his speed brakes.  

Plane set #5 comes the Mustang B and Spit mk.IX and the P-51b has some pretty bad overheating problems that high if pushing combat power. Spit mk.IX still has a not impressive rip speed. 

So to my original statement that it takes until plane set #5 to get a good counter to the 8km-flying bombers, I'll admit that the P-47 comes in set #4 and P-38 can be used against pilots that don't know the simple way to counter it.  

 

Other than that, level bombing from this altitude is almost impossible to intercept with the first 3 plane sets.

As for glide/dive bombing for these planes...  Just keep that long, shallow dive from 7km-8km at 700kph going until you reach the target. Chances are high that you will complete your attack and get a few kills for the AI gunners too. 

 

** I never said that low-level was easy for these Axis planes but after the attack, it doesn't matter.  The attack is still complete. The frontline movement still gets points in favor of the team.  If you still have the leftover speed from the dive, get on the treetops and let the gunners do the rest.  This works especially well for spoiling any attacks where a high-angle dive would work and brings us back to "slow closure rate, only attack option 6 o'clock = gunner meatball" scenario but on the deck.  This can, and often does, work at regular cruise speed.

 

Meanwhile, the Pe-2, A-20 and Il-2 have no altitude advantage over any Axis fighter - including the 110, have no dive speed advantage over any Axis fighter that is good enough to cause the "slow closure rate, only attack option 6 o'clock = gunner meatball" problem that the Allies have. 

The only things I know of is vs. 109e7 and f2 the Pe-2.35 has a same or slightly better level cruising speed, but only at a certain altitude.  This doesn't mean that these 109s can't dive on the Pe-2 like a bat out of hell though.  

The A-20 has almost no business being alone at any altitude or speed but, that is the way it's often flown because so few will fly it or escort it. The A-20 gunners are some of the worst of all the planes and can easily be foiled by offset-angle attacks. 

The IL-2 might be able to pull 1 or 2 instant turns that can out-do a 110 but then it's totally out of steam - much like an Hs-129 but not quite as good.  To claim any of these planes have "UFO" qualities when viewed from the Axis side is the real testament to who actually doesn't know their planes.  

 

(I'm not sure if there's any way to collect gunner stats but, If there was, I'm pretty sure that Axis beats all in that department.)

 

On 2/21/2024 at 4:08 AM, ulmar said:

I’m also pretty afraid of radars, but why do you think that a blue bomber can ignore it?

 

 Read the above and realize that Bomber air starts basically cut the time it takes to climb to 8km in half - if not shorter.  

[ITAF_Cymao]

16 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Ok,

You are still wrong, the H111s reach 6.5 km and not 8km and, the Ju88 at 7.5 km and the fighters from the first set can easily catch them.

You can't complain because others manage to make the most of the machines they have available and you can't!

It's your problem and yours alone, it's not a planeset problem.

 

On 2/18/2024 at 7:00 PM, LLv34_Untamo said:

New BRA command.

When I type the command <bra the message "radar no aviable" appears. Maybe I didn't understand how it works.

 

S!

[LLv34_Untamo]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:19 PM, ITAF_Cymao said:

When I type the command <bra the message "radar no aviable" appears. Maybe I didn't understand how it works.

 

Either all radars have been destroyed, or there might be something wrong in the mission generation / radar placement. Can you link a sortie when this happened?

[ulmar]

I also have never seen working radars on the current map

[ITAF_Cymao]

On 2/24/2024 at 10:39 AM, LLv34_Untamo said:

Can you link a sortie when this happened

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/mission/15874/

 

In almost every mission I played it gave me the same message "radar not aviable".

 

But is the radar still visibile on the map as the target to be destroyed?

 

If yes, I never saw radar in all mission that I played.

 

S!

[69th_Panp]

Really   !!!! such big words ?   

On 2/22/2024 at 7:55 PM, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Ok, I'll admit I was mistaken. However, the overall summary of the sortie doesn't really indicate that refuel and rearm was used.  Only looking at the events log shows that - if you know what you're looking at.  That said, of the two 100+ sorties I listed, you only R-and-R'd once per sortie. That breaks down to 2 sorites, for 2 flights each sortie for 50+gks each flight, for a total of 4 50+gk flights.  I can show many other single-flight sorties where the 110 puts out this much damage on a regular basis.   

On the other hand of the 2 IL-2 sorties that you showed for 50+ each, one of those was a R-and-R for 2 flights.  That makes only 1 single-flight sortie to accomplish this. I hope you can show more.  Furthermore, if it wasn't for you pointing out my mistake mis-reading the sortie summary pages, I wouldn't have discovered that you made the same mistake and you made it first.  

 

As far as the P-40 and P-39: You didn't ask about these until now.  I responded to the planes you did list originally. (Lagg, of a Yak 1, of a Sptifire MKV, of a La5) 

The Ju-88 and He-111 can both comfortably fly at 7km-8km. P-40 and P-39 are out of breath by 6km, just like almost every other Allied plane in the first 4 plane sets.  Instead of diving past them, climb. If you do dive past them, they had better have a head start to actually reach a usable closure speed once the 88s blow past them already at 700kph by the time they come down to 6km.

In set #1 only the Hurricane can climb that high and is way too slow once it's up there. It also has the worst rip speed of any fighter - unless you count the Po-2 as a fighter. 

In set 2# the MiG-3 (which should be in plane set 1) can climb that high and has good speed but, a simple shallow dive away leaves only the option for 6 o'clock attack and a closure rate so small that you're basically frozen in place for the gunners to shoot at.  This also applies to the Yaks (all of them) LaGG, P-40 and P-39 if you're being approached while at their (good altitude). 

In set #3 the Spitfire Mk.V experiences the same problem as the MiG-3 but has a worse rip speed.  We also get the Mosquito but that was purposefully designed to be mid-altitude patroller or a low-level infiltrator.  

By set #4 there's Finally the P-47 which is about the only true threat to the J-88 and He-111 at 8km - if it can get up there in time and still has the fuel to fight.  (maybe the update makes this a little better) It would also help if the toughest plane engine in the war wasn't being spit on by the devs and a single 5.56 round didn't stop it cold in 1 second flat.   The P-38 can climb that high and is certainly fast enough but, once you recognize it's a P-38, you just dive away and hope the P-38 pilot forgot his speed brakes.  

Plane set #5 comes the Mustang B and Spit mk.IX and the P-51b has some pretty bad overheating problems that high if pushing combat power. Spit mk.IX still has a not impressive rip speed. 

So to my original statement that it takes until plane set #5 to get a good counter to the 8km-flying bombers, I'll admit that the P-47 comes in set #4 and P-38 can be used against pilots that don't know the simple way to counter it.  

 

Other than that, level bombing from this altitude is almost impossible to intercept with the first 3 plane sets.

As for glide/dive bombing for these planes...  Just keep that long, shallow dive from 7km-8km at 700kph going until you reach the target. Chances are high that you will complete your attack and get a few kills for the AI gunners too. 

 

** I never said that low-level was easy for these Axis planes but after the attack, it doesn't matter.  The attack is still complete. The frontline movement still gets points in favor of the team.  If you still have the leftover speed from the dive, get on the treetops and let the gunners do the rest.  This works especially well for spoiling any attacks where a high-angle dive would work and brings us back to "slow closure rate, only attack option 6 o'clock = gunner meatball" scenario but on the deck.  This can, and often does, work at regular cruise speed.

 

Meanwhile, the Pe-2, A-20 and Il-2 have no altitude advantage over any Axis fighter - including the 110, have no dive speed advantage over any Axis fighter that is good enough to cause the "slow closure rate, only attack option 6 o'clock = gunner meatball" problem that the Allies have. 

The only things I know of is vs. 109e7 and f2 the Pe-2.35 has a same or slightly better level cruising speed, but only at a certain altitude.  This doesn't mean that these 109s can't dive on the Pe-2 like a bat out of hell though.  

The A-20 has almost no business being alone at any altitude or speed but, that is the way it's often flown because so few will fly it or escort it. The A-20 gunners are some of the worst of all the planes and can easily be foiled by offset-angle attacks. 

The IL-2 might be able to pull 1 or 2 instant turns that can out-do a 110 but then it's totally out of steam - much like an Hs-129 but not quite as good.  To claim any of these planes have "UFO" qualities when viewed from the Axis side is the real testament to who actually doesn't know their planes.  

 

(I'm not sure if there's any way to collect gunner stats but, If there was, I'm pretty sure that Axis beats all in that department.)

 

 

 Read the above and realize that Bomber air starts basically cut the time it takes to climb to 8km in half - if not shorter.  

Wasting your breath Mobile, you will never change blue bias! here or with the devs

Itaf_Cymao   I challenge you to fly red for 30 days !   Lets see where your stats are after that.

 

[LLv34_Untamo]

8 hours ago, ITAF_Cymao said:

But is the radar still visibile on the map as the target to be destroyed?

 

Radar is not shown on the map. But it is a game object you can destroy.

[LLv34_Untamo]

8 hours ago, ITAF_Cymao said:

If yes, I never saw radar in all mission that I played.

 

There was a missing definition in our setting files... radars should be available from now on.

[69th_Panp]

it was working last night

 

[ulmar]

Radar will works on last planesets or always?

[LLv34_Untamo]

9 hours ago, ulmar said:

Radar will works on last planesets or always?

 

Always.

[ulmar]

Elevation on tgts fully works now.

[ITAF_Cymao]

We continue to see the red tanks spawn on the blue line of the front troops.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 2/25/2024 at 11:37 AM, 69th_Panp said:

Really   !!!! such big words ?   

Wasting your breath Mobile, you will never change blue bias! here or with the devs

Itaf_Cymao   I challenge you to fly red for 30 days !   Lets see where your stats are after that.

 

Yeah, I was away getting some teeth pulled - which is better than having to deal with luftwaffles.  You're right, I'll just let them believe what they want.

[ITAF_Cymao]

On 2/25/2024 at 5:37 PM, 69th_Panp said:

Wasting your breath Mobile, you will never change blue bias! here or with the devs

In the statistics of crybabies you are unreachable. You always complain even when you have the best planes... It must be your characteristic to cry.

Once upon a time there were luftwhiners, but now let them disappear before you.

I play for fun, I don't play to prove something to you or anyone else. I will play red when and if I feel like it and not because some whiners dare me to do so.

 

 

1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

Yeah, I was away getting some teeth pulled - which is better than having to deal with luftwaffles.  You're right, I'll just let them believe what they want.

 

You cry about the German bombers but you say nothing about the A20s in set 2 which are faster than the 109f2, you say nothing about the Mosquito in set 3 which is almost impossible to catch.

You're the one who complained about how some German planes are exploited, but you don't see how the planes of the Allied side are exploited, perhaps because you don't know how to do it.

Even for us it's better when you go to the dentist, I hope that at least there you have nothing to complain about.

 

S!

 

 

Edited February 29, 2024 by ITAF_Cymao

[LukeFF]

Guys, let's please watch it with the name-calling and accusations of bias. 

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:44 AM, ITAF_Cymao said:

You cry about the German bombers but you say nothing about the A20s in set 2 which are faster than the 109f2, you say nothing about the Mosquito in set 3 which is almost impossible to catch.

You're the one who complained about how some German planes are exploited, but you don't see how the planes of the Allied side are exploited, perhaps because you don't know how to do it.

Even for us it's better when you go to the dentist, I hope that at least there you have nothing to complain about.

 

S!

 A-20s and Mosquitos actually match the performance specs given in the in-game information tabs - unlike the 88 and 111.  I think the shoe is on the other foot about "inability to use the machines you're given" if you can't catch them with a 109 e7, let alone an f2.

[JG1_Wittmann]

This server was the  go to MP server,  and prob not that long ago,  less than a year.   Pop has dwindled  slowly.   When it was 84  and you were waiting to get in on the weekend, sometime for a long wait  the format was essentially the same as it was for years.  I don't have  screenshots and #'s represented cross-referenced to a change  in aircraft  and weapons availability  but looking at it over  a long period when the finns started reducing available ac  vs the allies, all in the name of balance,  things got way out of skew.  First it was the F4 moved  to set 3  then limited.  While on tha allied side, hurricanes with 2 hmg's and 2 cannons  were in set 1.  Now I know they say they do not do historical,  ok,  set 1 the germans can bomb with an 88A4.   Most people  do not like to fly bombers.  So if you were a fighter primarily, your choice in set 1 was a 1939  109,   and a macchi with no cannons,  vs a hurricane that represents dec 42/Jan 43  at the earliest for those weapons  for the russians.  Then the A20 was put in game,  and it is a fine  AC.  The E7 can't catch it, and the macchi had no cannons to take it down.   In set 2 the F2 was introduced.  The whining and gnashing of teeth  was listened to by the finns and they removed the 20mm cannon  from it.  They didn't leave the hurricane with 8 303's that it had until 42 winter/43.   So you had an AC that had a very slight speed advantage over the A20, if any at all, but no  good weapons like the 42/43 hurricane to down it.

 

Now  when you go to set  2 or 3 the hurricane is no longer ltd and can mount 4 20's.  The FW190A3 is nowhere to be found even though it debuted in combat before the hurricane with  cannons in russia.   People that like to primarily fly  german fighters  got frustrated, imho, because allies kept whining, and the finns kept reducing their competitiveness.   Now before anyone comes in here spouting all kinds  of  negative comments because they can kick ass in an E7  or F2  vs fighters,  save your time.  I can't  and I do not even consider myself a journeyman level, maybe an apprentice or lower. ( Exactly like a lot of the newer players just trying MP)  The avg joe german pilot has moved to other servers.  and the lower tier sets  when they do get populated with even a few has mostly tanks and attackers for the german side with very few fighters ( at least when I am on the server )  So  most germans that want to fly  fighters, seem to avoid set 1 and 2 to a large extent.  Not withstanding the occasional squad night for blue.  Combat box does well and I don't think the fly before 1943, but mainly 44 and on.   The plane sets should be reduced from 8  to say 4, maybe 5, and make it more competitive for blue, in a fighter, if you are avg.  Other servers often post much larger pops than finnish. I would  lose the weapon restrictions and make plane set 1-4  the new set 1.  Sure. I would stop dicking with the 109 mw  etc.   a 109 without MW may be ok for say The Major Guys  like Samtastic,  or Succio,or  Soupman,etc. the LL26 guys, etc  but for the avg joe german vs the avg allied joe there is no competition.  The 190A8 sucks as a fighter in it's set, 5, but with 2 30mm wing guns you   have something.  

 

On the Tank Side,  the german has no decent offroad speed tank until the panther,  and it's limited #'s, or it was, 2 per spawn.   The argument that the T34 can't combat it fairly  is  a load of  crap.  Everyone that plays tanks knows the allies use the 75/76mm gun firing HE  exploit.   The devs have left that crap in.   Not to mention the firing rate of the T34.  etc. It was quick  for the 7 or so shells in the turret, then the floorplates had to be unbolted to get more ammo.  The devs never slowed the ROF down.  So  it is correct that head on at say 1KM or more the panther has an advantage, if both tanks use AP, like they would have in reality.   I remember when the 410 came out and the said no ap for 103  or the 50mm  which was   ok, only if you didn't let 1 of the 15-17 mosquitos   with a 57 in game.  So we have  all of the historical "experts"  making sure the 410 103 or 50mm did not get ap.  These same "experts"   never piped up and said no 57mm as it was a unicorn and never saw any combat on land, in any theater.   I'm not sure if finns allow the 57 anymore  but they used to.  So on the tank vs the frontline side,  just by the #'s  the T34 is  at least 2 times as fast as the PZIV,    it's  anywhere from 30% or slightly less faster than the panther, and it carries more ammo.   So 2 guys in server, 1 allied side, 1 german side in set 1 and 2, the allied tank can achieve more than double the tgt kill rate as the PZIV.   WHy is that not balanced in light of 95 % or more of allies using the HE exploit ?  That kind of thing needs to be balanced out since the devs put no limits on the t34 from it's #'s on paper.  I don't blame their bias, they are russian, or most and that is their iconic ww2 tank.  If this game had all american or british developers, etc then I would expect some bias in the direction.   Some squads do very well, and some individuals do very well  in the PZIV in set 1 and 2,  SCG def comes to mind, dudley, shampoo, dogstarandrew,  etc.   The avg  new player comes in,  it's a different story.

 

I myself like to do some strikes vs tgts,  try to intercept an ac on occasion, lvl bomb.  I have also  engaged in doing a lot of AF supply runs and paradrops.   Now I think they have changed the scoring on paradrops, but until recently,  you flew german you had 12 troops in the plane.  If 1 paratrooer hit trees and he died, the flight was a waste of your time.   The allies, used to have to fly the ju52 also, so the 12 in the box limit was the same.  The ju52 low can do 260 in climb,  258@3K    the c47 is 10% faster   in non combat.  C47 carries  16 paratroops.  They may have increased the 12, they usually like to hide many map details.  It looked like 12 to me before then the counter reset.  So a c47 could drop, kill 4 in trees and still get a good drop  75%. The german, it was 12 of 12, 100%  So they must do things off game server.  If you look at the mission builder, it has a 12 counter also.  So I wonder, If I drop 16   3 times  will the finns credit me for 4 drops ?.  This was tested as a troop or 2 was FF for a test and the drop still counted cause I couldn't get 5 dead out of 16.    So that  and other items of scoring  I think has driven away alot of players as well.  When you see a 20K or more advance on either side, stay for the flip, front combat is in same sector and the line has  not even moved 2 or 3 km.   I don't play allies, maybe they get this as well.   Total transparancy on the scoring, front line calcs, etc etc  may entice more to play this server.  Alot of new people come in  play for a few hours, have no clue what they have achieved and go to a different server that has defined scoring and goals 

 

Now we have the <BRA command added, radar.  What is the height limitation on that ?   Is there a horizon effect or is it just anything within X amount of KM's ?  I'm not sure if there is even a calc.  Chain Home  towers  were like 90 M high,    so a tgt flying at 100M  would only be visible for @ 75km.     But wait,   the top of the tower is 90M   The bottom of the antenna is much lower so you could, without  actual manuals,   guess that  70M  would be your  max Xmit/Receive height  it would be a few KM less.  Even using 90M  limits you to 75km,  and we have much longer range than that  and I see a buch of heading, and zero meter at 100km or more.  Now using a magnetron amplifier, which they did,   the clutter on a crt   got gradually worse as the tgt got lower.   I would venture a guess that under 500M  an 1940 radar tower wouldn't see a tgt  more that 40 KM  or less due to the ground clutter.  Remember, these are not aegis, or s400 radars  but huge antennas with zero electronic filtering  in any kind of mixer/nuller circuit.   So, the radar should not see low tgts  unless you get very close to them.  Why would any1 want to fly any kind of deep strike if a faster fighter can just slow racetrack in the rear and get a radar fix every few minutes.  Maybe it should be recalibrated, and limited to 1 or 2 uses per pilot per flight ?   So Right now  CB has 70,  WOL has 7 TAW has 11 Finns have 5 online  CB is in 1943   smaller map,   190 a5  a6,  bf109 g6   g6l     bombers  allies  typhoon, spit 9,  p47   ,  I think any sets before 1943, set 4  are  not a good draw

 

 

I would limit the maximum advance for a session to 20km.  I would penalize a lopsided  match  if there are 4 or 5 germans in game and 1, 2  or no allies I would limit that 20km adavnce  to4 or 5 km.   I would shorten each mission to  2.5 or 3 hours.   And I would change plane sets every mission, not 2 days

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

6 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

 

I would limit the maximum advance for a session to 20km.  I would penalize a lopsided  match  if there are 4 or 5 germans in game and 1, 2  or no allies I would limit that 20km adavnce  to4 or 5 km.   I would shorten each mission to  2.5 or 3 hours.   And I would change plane sets every mission, not 2 days

 

E7 can catch the A-20.  It has a dive speed better than an A-20 cruise speed and can climb higher than an A-20's ceiling.  Allied planes can dive on cruise-speed 88s and 111s - if they can climb above them and for most planes that's a big "if".  

I'll gladly swap the Hurricane (a collector's plane) for the Mig-3 in set #1.

 

If the 109F2 gets the 20mm cannon in set #2.... might as well just say "F+++ it" add the F4 and eliminate the F2 all together.

 

OR

 

I can see where you're going with the accelerated plane set rotation idea.  What I would change is: 

Make the set rotation 16 or 24 hours - preferably 16 to cause better distribution of sets over all time zones.

Make many more plane sets that allow for more gradual parts unlocks for planes that would need them.  

109F2 would still have a set with the 20mm locked and F4 wouldn't be introduced until 1 set of F2+20mm has run but, Hurricane would come with .303s to start, Russian field mod next then, the Hispanos. Mig-3s wouldn't get 12.7mm or 20mm mods until set #2 and 3# etc..

That's for example. Ideally, every plane would be looked at and have appropriate unlocks.  I'd even go far enough to say that set#1 Yaks shouldn't have RPK and I-16s wouldn't have 20mm and the higher visibility windscreen in set #1.  P-51b would have to run one set without the Malcolm hood canopy.  Those are ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there's many "tweaks" that can be made to unlocks on the Axis side too. Getting rid of the cannon on the Arado for a set or two is one thing that comes to mind. While the AR234 is flown well by a handful of pilots it's on the lesser-common side of usage and debate-able whether or not if the 2 engine version ever used it in combat even once. I would also limit the Me262 to 1 per player per round and max of 2 in the air at any given time. Land it safely or lose it for the rest of the round. 

Considering that there would be some pretty powerful fighters, bombers and attackers on the Axis side that would get no set #1 locked items at all or have no locked items when introduced (if we follow history or try a more arbitrary lock progression), I don't think that would be a "big ask" if finer-detailed lists were made. Meanwhile, with this proposed system, everything Allied from 1-16, IL-2, Pe-2, A-20 all the way to Tempest and P51-D have at least 1 item that can be locked for a set or two and some of those effect the performance of some planes significantly. 

It will be easier to "wait out" the plane sets you'd want to fly but, you'd have a less open "window" to fly those sets. 

This is about as punishing to my own squad's team (Allies) as I can propose without saying the in-game "START FLIGHT" button for all Allied players should be perma-locked at "VOTE TO CONCEDE MAP AND JUST GIVE UP ALREADY."  Even with a locked DB-605 here and there, Axis gets the bulk of the cookies. But, hey, if that's what keeps the numbers up....  

 

If you're a "prefers Axis" player - which your post seems to indicate, I wouldn't ask for "lopsided match penalties".  Depending on the time zone, that's going to hurt Axis way more than help them.  That's not a complaint, that's just the way it stacks at various times of day. There's been times where Allied stack time zones push the line 50+km only to lose the map 12 hours later after a massive Axis-stack push. The possibility of that happening the other way around is definitely less-than equal.