Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

8 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Sadly, agree.
Planeset 1:
Slow E-7 vs faster P-40, Lagg 3, Hurricane, with better climb rate even the I-16 could catch you
Oh wait, we have MC-202, what is: climbing better, but slower than P-40, Lagg-3.

The plansets are based on what?
Not on release years, I can assume that.

 

Well, as it stands Allies players don't have any non-collector planes that can reach level bombers at 7km altitude.  For planeset 1 Mig-3, a plane introduced before the war even started, should be there too.  Yes, Hurri can get up there but, only if you've bought it extra.  Whether or not it's actually fast enough up there is a whole other can of worms.

 

[Roland_HUNter]

1 hour ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Well, as it stands Allies players don't have any non-collector planes that can reach level bombers at 7km altitude.  For planeset 1 Mig-3, a plane introduced before the war even started, should be there too.  Yes, Hurri can get up there but, only if you've bought it extra.  Whether or not it's actually fast enough up there is a whole other can of worms.

 

Mig-3 even before the war? Yes, but then:
Please...F-2...F-4.....
The ingame MIG-3 reached the front in 1941 july as the Bf-109 F-4.
F-2: produced since 1940 october, reached the troops 1941 feb-march.

But As I said, looks like the plane sets are not based on dates.

[CountZero]

11 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Sadly, agree.
Planeset 1:
Slow E-7 vs faster P-40, Lagg 3, Hurricane, with better climb rate even the I-16 could catch you
Oh wait, we have MC-202, what is: climbing better, but slower than P-40, Lagg-3.

The plansets are based on what?
Not on release years, I can assume that.

202 is faster then lagg or p40, and on top it can outturn and outclimb them

E7 is faster then hurri or i-16

 

whats the problem ?

 

set 8 has 262, and thats ok ? 200kmh faster then anything, but having eaqual airplanes in set 1 is problem

 

axis cant win maps because they cant do ground attack and players who do it dont wont to do it for hartman larpers.

Edited June 13, 2022 by CountZero

[JG4_Moltke1871]

3 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

ell, as it stands Allies players don't have any non-collector planes that can reach level bombers at 7km altitude.  For planeset 1 Mig-3, a plane introduced before the war even started, should be there too.  Yes, Hurri can get up there but, only if you've bought it extra.  Whether or not it's actually fast enough up there is a whole other can of worms.

Bombers are Fastfood since the developers lobotomised the gunners and make em defenceless.

Please let do us our Job from high altitude only one Planeset ?

[Roland_HUNter]

5 hours ago, CountZero said:

202 is faster then lagg or p40, and on top it can outturn and outclimb them

E7 is faster then hurri or i-16

 

whats the problem ?

 

set 8 has 262, and thats ok ? 200kmh faster then anything, but having eaqual airplanes in set 1 is problem

 

axis cant win maps because they cant do ground attack and players who do it dont wont to do it for hartman larpers.

Mc 202 is not faster than P-40 or lagg3. Trust me. Test it.
E-7 Boost 477
Hurri 14 Boost: 466
With supercharge bug 24 boost : 480-490.
I-16: 448 but it can climb better.
If you gonna start climb, when a fast lagg is in your 6, he gonna get you.

Wooow, we have 2-6 me262...
The allies have only 4 lagg 3 in planeset 1?

[ITAF_Cymao]

Someone is never on Finnish but speak about this server! It's all very nice.

The wrong strategy doesn't mean that there isnt something to review in the planeset.

Strategy and planeset are two different things that must not be together!

I think many would gladly do less than a few 262 and have some fighters first...

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

7 hours ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

Bombers are Fastfood since the developers lobotomised the gunners and make em defenceless.

Please let do us our Job from high altitude only one Planeset ?

 

lol   Keep telling yourself that.   Stuka, no loadout restrictions, sometimes still glitches in MP and shoots down through it's own tail with no self damage.   110s, no loadout restriction, get gunner warning and fly 1m off the deck making it impossible to get low 6 - too fast for Allied plane to get around to attack from front or side.  Ju88s, no loadout restriction, can do same combat maneuvers as the amazing 110s - including straight-down vertical scissors from 6km with fighters half its weight and no apparent fatigue problems for pilot or gunners.  He-111, no loadout restriction, almost the same as Ju-88 with more gunner coverage.

 

Besides, all I hear is "if Axis can't do what they want uncontested, then Allies are OP."   I find this ironic since historical real advantages for Axis are already baked into the sim.  That's not a complaint.  That is fact and whether Allies players choose to accept it or not is irrelevant.  

 

9 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

The ingame MIG-3 reached the front in 1941 july as the Bf-109 F-4.
 

 

Umm...   Operation Barbarossa (AKA Hitler betrays and attacks Russia) Started June, 22, 1941.  

 

2 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Mc 202 is not faster than P-40 or lagg3. Trust me. Test it.
E-7 Boost 477
Hurri 14 Boost: 466
With supercharge bug 24 boost : 480-490.
I-16: 448 but it can climb better.
If you gonna start climb, when a fast lagg is in your 6, he gonna get you.

Wooow, we have 2-6 me262...
The allies have only 4 lagg 3 in planeset 1?

 

LoL!  P40 is the only plane that has a top dive speed before breaking apart that's even close to the 109 or 202.  

If you're not getting 500+kph out of the 109 or 202 with cruise throttle and very slight descent, you're doing it wrong. If it's on the deck, then... What are you doing on the deck in either plane without enough distance or excess dive speed to carry you far enough away to reset your attack or go home?  Once, again...  you're doing it wrong.

 

I--16 "but it can climb better".  ie; "it has one - and pretty much only one - performance advantage and that makes it - sometimes - not a sitting duck, NERF!  NERF NOW!!!!!!!"

 

LoL! LaGG-3 in set #1 = 262 in set #8?   After a statement like that, it seems to me that you're just the type of person that wants puppies to kick, not dogs that have a chance of biting back.  Seriously, if LaGG-3 is that much of a problem to you when using E7 or 202, then just give up already.  

 

[Roland_HUNter]

8 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

LoL! LaGG-3 in set #1 = 262 in set #8?   After a statement like that, it seems to me that you're just the type of person that wants puppies to kick, not dogs that have a chance of biting back.  Seriously, if LaGG-3 is that much of a problem to you when using E7 or 202, then just give up already.  

1. Manners
2. Countzero started mentioning with planes as balance in PS8.
3.Try it: E7/MC-202 vs Lagg3. When he is in your 6

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

40 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

1. Manners
2. Countzero started mentioning with planes as balance in PS8.
3.Try it: E7/MC-202 vs Lagg3. When he is in your 6

 

1. Preaching

2.  Who-about the what-about-ism?

3.  With alt. dive away use 100kph extra without breaking parts to run.  Without alt. scissors, or jink around and keep his sights off of you. Use the historical control unresponsiveness of the LaGG against it.  At any speed (any alt.) above ~370kph or below ~330 kph, out-turn him.  Make him lose speed or pop flaps to force an overshoot.  In a stall fight, Lagg-3 drops its belly into the ground like the gut on a potbelly pig.  Below 200kph, 109 with flaps and power on does quite well.  Lagg-3 not so much.  Trying to slow down with a 109 or 202 that's hit the brakes is suicide, if not because the LaGG can be forced to overshoot, then because going that slow and trying to keep control is extremely difficult to not self-kill by maneuver.  The ONLY options for LaGG-3 are to try to create distance that still allows a moment onto the 109/202's 6 or accept the overshoot and hope there's enough speed and angle to stay away from their 1km gun range.  

[JV44Stacko]

2 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

1. Manners
2. Countzero started mentioning with planes as balance in PS8.
3.Try it: E7/MC-202 vs Lagg3. When he is in your 6

Don’t bother Roland.  The same trolls like 69th_Mobile_BBQ and Count Zero will just shout you down and try to yell louder to drown out your legitimate concerns.  
 

Unfortunately although FVP is a great server it is beholden to the crowd that yells loudest - be it on the forums, in the discord chat or even in game.  The plane sets don’t make a lot of sense and unfortunately the arguments of these forum trolls make even less sense.

 

But hey, every two weeks “you get 4 Me 262’s” is their usual refrain.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

6 minutes ago, JV44Stacko said:

 The same trolls like...  (snip)

 

 

Pot, meet kettle.

[MasterBaiter]

3 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

1. Manners
2. Countzero started mentioning with planes as balance in PS8.
3.Try it: E7/MC-202 vs Lagg3. When he is in your 6

Lagg3 is EZ kill as soon as he try to turn with you.

 

Skill issue? ?

 

+ planesets are balanced

[zan64]

doesn't quite matter to me. i die consistently no matter which side i fly for

Edited June 14, 2022 by zan64

[Roland_HUNter]

8 hours ago, JG300_Winterz said:

Lagg3 is EZ kill as soon as he try to turn with you.

 

Skill issue? ?

 

+ planesets are balanced

Yes, skill issue. -.-''
Hard factors were always about skill issue.....-.-''
And turning when in any sec other Lagg will see your fight, suicide aswell.
Skill issue?  

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I like the part of the story where it goes from E7 vs. LaGG to E7 vs. 2 LaGGs...  

[Robli]

10 hours ago, JG300_Winterz said:

Lagg3 is EZ kill as soon as he try to turn with you.

 

Me-262 is also easy kill, if he is going for turn fight.

The question is, though, why would a Lagg3 pilot want to enter turn fight against E7, if he has considerable speed advantage? If soviet player likes a knife fight, he should pick I-16 and have both turn and climb advantage over E7, but give enemy the speed advantage. If he wants speed advantage instead of turn and climb advantage, he could use Lagg3.

 

Anyway, these balance arguments never lead to mutual agreements.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Robli

[CountZero]

17 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Mc 202 is not faster than P-40 or lagg3. Trust me. Test it.
E-7 Boost 477
Hurri 14 Boost: 466
With supercharge bug 24 boost : 480-490.
I-16: 448 but it can climb better.
If you gonna start climb, when a fast lagg is in your 6, he gonna get you.

Wooow, we have 2-6 me262...
The allies have only 4 lagg 3 in planeset 1?

You dont have 14lbs boost on hurri in set 1, its limited to help axis 

Spoiler

https://ibb.co/Np9SdLX

 

https://ibb.co/BnsRWYY

 

https://ibb.co/7RLzdmg

 

and just to compare temp vs 262 advantage, but lagg3 is problem lol

https://ibb.co/r7FMkFz

 

lol lagg3 vs 202and e7 is same as having 262s vs rest ,so it should be limited, having 4 Tempest on set 1 would be same as having 262 in set 8 limited, thats how big advantages 262 have on other airplanes in set 8.

11 hours ago, JV44Stacko said:

Don’t bother Roland.  The same trolls like 69th_Mobile_BBQ and Count Zero will just shout you down and try to yell louder to drown out your legitimate concerns.  
 

Unfortunately although FVP is a great server it is beholden to the crowd that yells loudest - be it on the forums, in the discord chat or even in game.  The plane sets don’t make a lot of sense and unfortunately the arguments of these forum trolls make even less sense.

 

But hey, every two weeks “you get 4 Me 262’s” is their usual refrain.

Ah yes the guys from 262 squadron who would spend 2+h going with tank to enemy airbase just so they can kill players spawning in, caling me troll, lol

This is why axis dont win missions, insted bombing and playing for objectives they troll others abusing game limitations.

I dont select planset, this planset is unchanged for long time and server is most popular in this game for long time, so most players like balanced planset.

2 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Yes, skill issue. -.-''
Hard factors were always about skill issue.....-.-''
And turning when in any sec other Lagg will see your fight, suicide aswell.
Skill issue?  

And who proposed solution to balance set 1 is give axis 109f4, so lagg3 is hard to fight but F4 vs lagg3 is perfect balance lol

Edited June 14, 2022 by CountZero

[MasterBaiter]

2 hours ago, Robli said:

The question is, though, why would a Lagg3 pilot want to enter turn fight against E7, if he has considerable speed advantage? If soviet player likes a knife fight, he should pick I-16 and have both turn and climb advantage over E7

 

Why a 109 pilot wouldnt turn if he dont have the speed advantage? Doesnt make sense. Just fly in a straight line and hope for the best I guess.

 

 

I-16 aint that good in a turn fight btw..

 

  

3 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Yes, skill issue. -.-''
Hard factors were always about skill issue.....-.-''
And turning when in any sec other Lagg will see your fight, suicide aswell.
Skill issue?  

What do you think red pilots do when they are attacked by your 109-F4 or your A-3?

Speed aint everything.

Edited June 14, 2022 by JG300_Winterz

[Roland_HUNter]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

And who proposed solution to balance set 1 is give axis 109f4, so lagg3 is hard to fight but F4 vs lagg3 is perfect balance lol

I like when ppl give me words what are never left my mouth....
Where I proposed this? Quote please.

 

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

lol lagg3 vs 202and e7 is same as having 262s vs rest ,so it should be limited,

You was the first who brought up the Me-262...do not evade your own proposal.
And "LOOL"-->Manners?

13 minutes ago, JG300_Winterz said:

What do you think red pilots do when they are attacked by your 109-F4 or your A-3?

Ahm yes, for overshoot, to bleed the F-4 energy!
If the F-4s pilot making a mistake, he can leave, so as the Lagg-3 if the F-4 pilot don't know how to maximize his own speed.

In E-7 VS Lagg-3, if you making a mistake with E-7, you  cannot leave...you have to fight until death or victory.

Speed is important!

[Robli]

1 hour ago, JG300_Winterz said:

Why a 109 pilot wouldnt turn if he dont have the speed advantage? Doesnt make sense. Just fly in a straight line and hope for the best I guess.

 

What are you talking about? Just inventing absurd text for the sake of inventing it? You were the one that complained Lagg3's ability in turn fight and now you are saying something about flying straight line with no point connected to any of it. The point is to use your plane's advantages instead of deliberately putting yourself at disadvantage and then complain about it.

 

1 hour ago, JG300_Winterz said:

I-16 aint that good in a turn fight btw..

 

You don't know what you are talking about btw..

[MasterBaiter]

I didnt complain. Im stating facts.

 

You said why would a Lagg3 pilot want to enter a turn fight against a 109-E7, if he has considerable speed advantage? -> No point doing it right.

 

I just said the E7's pov: why would you not turn if something faster is catching you???

Since anything else than being able to run away/get faster seems to be black magic to some guys in this thread.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Robli said:

You don't know what you are talking about btw..

 

? I-16 turn decently but it aint as exceptional as people thinks it is.

Edited June 14, 2022 by JG300_Winterz

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

7 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

In E-7 VS Lagg-3, if you making a mistake with E-7, you  cannot leave...you have to fight until death or victory.

Speed is important!

 

Prime example of being upset when the street is two-way instead of one-way. 

 

Even without mistakes, "death or victory" is the ONLY option in LaGG-3.  There is no leaving if you make a mistake, nor is there leaving if you've done the best to fly the LaGG right.  The only exceptions are with a true 1v1 bounce where the LaGG can hit-and-run with none of the opponent's friends can follow-up and get revenge or vs. poorly flown enemy who has no friends around to support.  

[Flamboyant_Flamingo]

I dunno, I always feel the teams are so far out of whack whenever I hop on, it couldn't hurt to give the allies a little extra something-something to entice folks over.

[CountZero]

Its amazing to see that E7 vs lagg3 is bad for E7 because of lack of speed but F4 vs lagg3 is not bad for lagg3 because of lack of speed, no wonder ppl like that think planset is not balanced. I need to have speed advantage to fight, if i dont i cant fight lol 

[Robli]

Has anybody claimed that F4 is bad vs Lagg3?

Speaking of Virtualpilots planeset, Lagg3 is matched up against E7, that's why there is discussion about that matchup. By the time F4 becomes available, red side has Spit V, Yak-7B, La-5F and P-39 available, so no point of discussing F4 vs Lagg3 balance at that point. Looking at the overall VP server planeset, it seems that admins have purposely tried to match fighters up so that both sides have roughly equal capabilities, instead of historical timeline for example. So red side gets historically later fighter models earlier to match up again earlier blue fighters on as equal terms as possible. From that point of view, prioritizing balance over historical timeline, Virtualpilots admins have done a good job.

 

[JV44Stacko]

Arado released!

 

Please add to planeset 8 in unlimited capacity. Many people won’t bother playing it anyway.

 

Please increase me-262 availability to 6 planes per non-temporary airbase.

 

Please increase Tiger tank availability to 6 tanks per spawn - at the moment we can only spawn 2 and it’s not fair on axis tanker squads.

 

Thanks.

 

[CountZero]

5 hours ago, JV44Stacko said:

Arado released!

 

Please add to planeset 8 in unlimited capacity. Many people won’t bother playing it anyway.

 

Please increase me-262 availability to 6 planes per non-temporary airbase.

 

Please increase Tiger tank availability to 6 tanks per spawn - at the moment we can only spawn 2 and it’s not fair on axis tanker squads.

 

Thanks.

 

why wait till set 8, add it from set 6 for historical accuracy, and with fantasy 20mm gunpods to shoot down thouse fantasy halifaxes and lancasters in night missions with radars it had that are not in game. Theres no way some ppl would just use unlimited ar234 with 2x20mm gunpods for vulching spawning players, they just wont to sim thouse night missions ?

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by CountZero

[JG4_Moltke1871]

There is no reason to watch on historical accuracy on Finnish Virtual Pilot Server. It’s a total fantasy Server with Sturmoviks, Peschkas and I-16‘s over Holland and Belgium and 262‘s over Stalingrad and Moscow, also can take off by Magic in 5k…

[Roland_HUNter]

23 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

Prime example of being upset when the street is two-way instead of one-way. 

 

Even without mistakes, "death or victory" is the ONLY option in LaGG-3.  There is no leaving if you make a mistake, nor is there leaving if you've done the best to fly the LaGG right.  The only exceptions are with a true 1v1 bounce where the LaGG can hit-and-run with none of the opponent's friends can follow-up and get revenge or vs. poorly flown enemy who has no friends around to support.  

You just ignored that fact the Lagg 3 is faster than E7 and 202....did you even read my comments?

10 hours ago, CountZero said:

but F4 vs lagg3 is not bad for lagg3 because of lack of speed

Hmmm...again...who said this?

3 hours ago, CountZero said:

historical accuracy,

............wow.................there was infinity P-51B in 1943 february right?
Wait..no.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

2 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

You just ignored that fact the Lagg 3 is faster than E7 and 202....did you even read my comments?

 

I did.  Then, myself and JG300_Winterz gave you good examples of how to beat LaGG 3 - to which you changed the conditions of the debate from 1v1 (E7 or 202 vs. LaGG-3) to 1v2 (E7 or 202 vs. 2 or more Lagg 3).   I mean seriously, I don't know how good your deflection shooting is but, your ability to deflect in a debate is exceptional.  

 

Besides, when anybody says plane X beats plane Y, there is often the failure to ask "under what circumstances?".   LaGG does not out-dive either plane.  LaGG, on paper, out turns 109 but, in reality using the elevator deflection required to achieve this sends the LaGG into a deadly spin and it gets worse the faster you fly - which is historical.   Put a LaGG side-by-side with either E7 or 202 at 200Kph and push throttle to 100%  LaGG certainly doesn't out-accelerate either of them.  On paper, LaGG has better climb than E7 but the underpowered engine doesn't lend itself well to maintaining enough speed (averaged over time) to get away so...  in reality... in a chase, the E7 wins that fight. 

 

The only time the LaGG is "faster"  is when both planes are at sea level with no extra room to dive for more speed and throttles are maxed.  Other than that, E7 is: better acceleration, better turn rate at low and high speed, better maximum dive limit, much better performance at higher altitude, twice the cannon firepower - not counting the much better explosive power of the German cannon shells + better effective range - and very,very good machine gun power.  The 202 is almost the same except for the firepower of the MGs.

[Roland_HUNter]

29 minutes ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 I mean seriously, I don't know how good your deflection shooting is but, your ability to deflect in a debate is exceptional.  

1. Argument mistake: personalization
2. Its deflecting the hard factors, when I say the possible soft factor: if you turn with him, getting into slow fight, and shot, others will see it?
As you mentioned events/possibilities what E-7 can or cannot do, I mentioned 1 aswell. Why it is deflecting? o.O
Should I not mention soft factors when him and you do? o.O
Why I can't say things, but you can? o.O

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

28 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

1. Argument mistake: personalization
2. Its deflecting the hard factors, when I say the possible soft factor: if you turn with him, getting into slow fight, and shot, others will see it?
As you mentioned events/possibilities what E-7 can or cannot do, I mentioned 1 aswell. Why it is deflecting? o.O
Should I not mention soft factors when him and you do? o.O
Why I can't say things, but you can? o.O

 

1. Again, you're preaching. 

2. The debate was based, by you, on 1v1 comparison - until facts were given you could not counter. Then, you added extra conditions.   Nothing was mentioned about multiple-plane tactics until it became convenient.  Hence, deflecting.

3. Why does the 1 thing the LaGG does better vs. many the E7 and 202 can do bother you so much?  Perhaps if the opponent has ZERO advantage in ANY category is the ONLY way you'll be satisfied?  Maybe Allied fuel should be locked for 10 minutes of flight and ammo should be empty as well?  Every Allied plane you listed in your original complaint (LaGG, P-40, I-i6) has 1, (maybe 2) categories it excels and all the rest belong to the E7 and 202 but it's still too unbalanced for you?   Now I am going to deflect - and I'm going to admit it outright - It sounds like you have a skill issue.  

[Robli]

14 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

E7 is: ... twice the cannon firepower - not counting the much better explosive power of the German cannon shells + better effective range - and very,very good machine gun power. 

 

Lagg3 has probably the best cannon in the game, VYa-23, though that is not available on the very first map.

Even with the standard cannons, how could wing mounted MG FF's with low muzzle velocity and 540 rounds per minute have better effective range than nose-mounted ShVAK with higher muzzle velocity and 800 rounds per minute?

You also seriously believe that 2 x 7,92 MG17 machine guns give very, very good machine gun power? Lagg's 12.7 mm UB machine gun is worse?

[Roland_HUNter]

14 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

1. Again, you're preaching. 

2. The debate was based, by you, on 1v1 comparison - until facts were given you could not counter. Then, you added extra conditions.   Nothing was mentioned about multiple-plane tactics until it became convenient.  Hence, deflecting.

3. Why does the 1 thing the LaGG does better vs. many the E7 and 202 can do bother you so much?  Perhaps if the opponent has ZERO advantage in ANY category is the ONLY way you'll be satisfied?  Maybe Allied fuel should be locked for 10 minutes of flight and ammo should be empty as well?  Every Allied plane you listed in your original complaint (LaGG, P-40, I-i6) has 1, (maybe 2) categories it excels and all the rest belong to the E7 and 202 but it's still too unbalanced for you?   Now I am going to deflect - and I'm going to admit it outright - It sounds like you have a skill issue.  

Talking about planes hard factors, why instatly meaning its 1vs1?
Where I said that?

You know, you always just try to see things what I not talking about.
Who said I want only adventages? You see: again: you look for things what I ever not thought about.

I just said:
E-7 by default without mistake or not, has HARD FACTOR disadvantage against Lagg-3, because that Lagg-3 is from 1942.
Again, hard factors:
-Faster
-Climb better
-Has better weaponry (23mm at set 1, but the 12.7mm is good enough against everything because the areodmg that thing doing is....)

-More durable against 20mms

Then you and the other guy came up with soft factors:
What if the Lagg do this or this....
Then I replied:
What If the E-7 do this or this...

So please....Everyone starts out of himself. And I beg you to practice understanding reading. Thank You.

PS:
Why nobody can't argue on online forums?
Guys...when are you arguing about THINGS, why always everybody bring in the others personality?

Why?!
That is an ARGUMENT error:personalization.

[CountZero]

7 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Talking about planes hard factors, why instatly meaning its 1vs1?
Where I said that?

You know, you always just try to see things what I not talking about.
Who said I want only adventages? You see: again: you look for things what I ever not thought about.

I just said:
E-7 by default without mistake or not, has HARD FACTOR disadvantage against Lagg-3, because that Lagg-3 is from 1942.
Again, hard factors:
-Faster
-Climb better
-Has better weaponry (23mm at set 1, but the 12.7mm is good enough against everything because the areodmg that thing doing is....)

-More durable against 20mms

Then you and the other guy came up with soft factors:
What if the Lagg do this or this....
Then I replied:
What If the E-7 do this or this...

So please....Everyone starts out of himself. And I beg you to practice understanding reading. Thank You.

PS:
Why nobody can't argue on online forums?
Guys...when are you arguing about THINGS, why always everybody bring in the others personality?

Why?!
That is an ARGUMENT error:personalization.

1.To short all this, what is your balanced set 1 planset for fighters? Now its E7 202 vs i16, p40, hurri, lagg3.

 

 

you have 202 to fight lagg3 its not like you only have e7 why you keep saying it like you dont have better airplane to match lagg3 in set 1

 

what are advantages of lagg3 vs f4 ? i can see only it roll better, how you dont see why it looks funny when you keep saying e7 vs lagg3 is not fair because its faster, but e7 can outturn it, how would f4 vs lagg3 be anything similar f4 dominates lagg3 in everything, e7 vs lagg3 has turn to fight speed, same early vvs fighters have vs axis fighters, so if its hard for you to fight lagg3 with e7 how on eart do vvs players fight f4 and a3 al this years ?

 

[Roland_HUNter]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

how on eart do vvs players fight f4 and a3 al this years ?

Why do you always mention the F-4?
A3: faster than VVS but climb worse, turn worse.
F-4: littlebit faster than yak or mig. And only for 1 min....10-15 km/h. Climb better, can engage in manouver fights, but it's risky. Other mentions are already answered.

[MasterBaiter]

5 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

A3: faster than VVS but climb worse, turn worse.
F-4: littlebit faster than yak or mig. And only for 1 min....10-15 km/h. Climb better, can engage in manouver fights, but it's risky. Other mentions are already answered.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

3 hours ago, Robli said:

 

Lagg3 has probably the best cannon in the game, VYa-23, though that is not available on the very first map.

Even with the standard cannons, how could wing mounted MG FF's with low muzzle velocity and 540 rounds per minute have better effective range than nose-mounted ShVAK with higher muzzle velocity and 800 rounds per minute?

You also seriously believe that 2 x 7,92 MG17 machine guns give very, very good machine gun power? Lagg's 12.7 mm UB machine gun is worse?

 

I never compared either of these guns to any other gun except that 2 cannons is more than 1 cannon.  I guess I could get into ammo amount and amount of high-explosive content of each 20mm round vs. Russian 20mm too.

I didn't compare the MG17 to the UB.  But if we want to get into ammo amount and aiming accuracy requirements to get solid hits....

 

3 hours ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Talking about planes hard factors, why instatly meaning its 1vs1?
Where I said that?

 

 

Comparing plane vs. plane performance IS 1v1. You don't get better performance for one or the other by adding an extra plane.  It's not like they become Voltron or something.

 

I don't have time to answer the rest today and honestly, this is a waste of time to debate with you.   Keep believing that poor you in your E7 has no chance vs. a LaGG-3 for all I care.

 

2 hours ago, dogefighter said:

set 1= Mc.202, 109E-7, 110E-2 vs i16, p40, hurri +12 lbs

set 2= Mc.202, 109E-7, 109F-2 vs  i16, p40, hurri +14 lbs, yak-1 s.69, lagg-3, mig-3

ez

 

Well, at least people who don't have the collector planes can Git Gud at i-16 in set 1.     Wait!  You don't want that.... ?

[Robli]

2 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I never compared either of these guns to any other gun except that 2 cannons is more than 1 cannon.

Man, I quoted you. The entire post was about Lagg3 vs E7.

You said that E7 had "twice the cannon firepower" and "better effective range". Go look up your post yourself, if you don't believe me.

 

2 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I didn't compare the MG17 to the UB.

You said E7 had "very, very good machine gun power". Well, E7 has 7.62mm MG17's. Lagg3 has 12.7mm UB machine gun.

 

2 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I guess I could get into ammo amount

You could, if you wanted to. E7 has only 60 20mm cannon rounds, Lagg3 has either 160 20mm cannon rounds or 90 VYa-23 cannon rounds.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

3 hours ago, Robli said:

Man, I quoted you. The entire post was about Lagg3 vs E7.

You said that E7 had "twice the cannon firepower" and "better effective range". Go look up your post yourself, if you don't believe me.

 

You said E7 had "very, very good machine gun power". Well, E7 has 7.62mm MG17's. Lagg3 has 12.7mm UB machine gun.

 

You could, if you wanted to. E7 has only 60 20mm cannon rounds, Lagg3 has either 160 20mm cannon rounds or 90 VYa-23 cannon rounds.

 

2 cannons vs 1 = twice.   It's called MATHEMATICS (MATH for short).

 

I've never seen ANY Allied cannon take down opponents at better than 600 meters.  Axis cannons take down opponents at 1km+.  They don't have to have velocity as long as they still hit.   Much better explosive charge than Russian 20mm or 23mm.  

 

60 rounds PER WING times 2 wings = 120 rounds.   MATH.     

 

To say "very, very good MG firepower" is not a comparative statement to the LaGG's UB.  It is a statement implied in general based on the damage output of the MGs.  It doesn't matter if the Lagg-3 is in the discussion.  I did not say "very, very good MG firepower *compared to* Lagg-3" nor did I need to.  You are the one who inferred (incorrectly) that there was a direct comparison made, by me between 2 MG17s vs 1 UB, which I did not.  My description of the E7 and It's MGs having "very, very good firepower" grammatically makes sense with no need for direct comparison to anything else. 

 

Ask an English teacher if you don't believe me.  Just an example to help you along:  "Home cooked food has a very, very pleasant smell."