Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I know this is a "side effect" of the geography of the Kuban Map, but there are situations where the large Allied depot facilities are generated on the south coast line with the nearest defending airbases being over 100 km away.  There are plenty of usable airfields - sometimes right next to the depot itself that don't get used.  Is there a way to bring at least a temporary field closer to the areas that are pretty much left wide open to attack? 

 

To be fair, I've seen this happen on both sides when the map is 100% land with no sea coast or mountains to complicate things. 

In my opinion, no facilities for either side should generate unless a defending airbase is 40km or less away.  

[13/JG5_Luck]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:36 PM, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

The VVS historically flew close to the ground, because of the plane this simulation is named after.

 

The advantage that a lot of Nazi aces got initially was basically a "head start" over the Soviet pilots: In 1941, the Luftwaffe had pilots that had experienced several years of fighting already, they had relatively good, battle-tested equipment, and their command structures were intact. On the other side, the VVS was still reeling from Stalin's great purge, and was not mobilized at all when the Nazis invaded (much is made over the Soviet Union's numbers advantage, but in 1941, the invading forces as a whole outnumbered the defenders). Their pilots were outnumbered, outgunned, and outskilled. As Nazi Germany starts crumbling this trend got reversed, but at that point, Luftwaffe pilots already had several years to hone their skills and rack up their kill counts against understrength enemies.

There's also a difference in doctrine: Luftwaffe ideology and propaganda favoured aces with high kill counts (it looks good in Der Adler!), whilst the Allies rotated out succesful pilots to bolster their training command. So on the whole, Allied forces improve their skills and techniques wholesale, whilst the Luftwaffe ends up with a core of highly skilled veterans, surrounded by a padding of cannon fodder.

All these historical, logistical, ideological, strategic and tactical underpinnings are completely absent in an multiplayer enviroment. Arguably the only thing that really shines through is a difference in doctrine, but it's an ahistorcal one, where quite a few virtual Luftwaffe pilots are trying to emulate the high kill counts whilst the virtual VVS, RAF and USAAF pilots focus on  completing their objectives.

I share your insights and agree to your conclusions but I decline your wording: "Nazi Aces" does not hit the nail. The political situation in the 3rd Reich was much more complex. There have been dedicated nazi pilots as the Stuka Ass Rudolf, but there have been many Aces without Nazi conviction, e.g. Mölders. who simply fought for their Vaterland. Your posting otherwise is based on a decent understanding of history, your wording should reflect this in the Nazi-issues as well.

[-DED-Takeshi]

что то странное творится, кто первый попал, того и шкурка, даже если одной пулькой.

[Arditi]

player dogstarandrew19528 made a deliberate TK. I was in a panther on an open country road and he shot me from 800 mts the flank. impossible to confuse the panther with a russian tank 

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/tankman_sortie/log/2236184/?tour=47

[JG1_Wittmann]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:07 AM, CountZero said:

LOL Tempest = 262

its like saying 109F4 = P-51D

 

 

24/7 DF war and you expect ppl to be spending their time doing hard work just so it can be null in low pop time when most ppl sleep...

There is not that many ppl who are that naive to go for the front, thats why on 24/7 servers most ppl just do selfish and easy tasks, boost stats for their team, self or just use it for practice whill few naive folk fight solo war of moving fronts at low pop times... they are ones wining wars on 24/7 servers, not players playing on most popular time.

When you have organised times of missions, 2 -3 missions per week or war only at most popular time, and most ppl who participate in them will give a f about doing what needs to be done to win campaign, because it mathers doing boring stuff.

I am  curious about something,  CountZero ,     This is not meant  as anything  to  chafe you,   but do you fly on the Finnish server ?    Do you fly there under a different name perhaps ?   Because I looked in the stats  and the last stat I see for you  are 3 sorties in a P38  on  02-07-2020    That's  over a year and a half ago.   You  have a very  red tilted opinion,  as many including myself have a blue tilted opinion.  Many people comment in here, some more often than others.  Many sway towards the side they fly on, and I may not agree with them, but can recognize they have skin in the game.     I see you commenting quite a bit,  but I never see you in the server,  which I just chalked up to you living in a much different timezone.  If CZ  is your ingame name, and you don't have another, you don't even fly on fvp   or do you ?

12 minutes ago, Arditi said:

player dogstarandrew19528 made a deliberate TK. I was in a panther on an open country road and he shot me from 800 mts the flank. impossible to confuse the panther with a russian tank 

http://stats.virtualpilots.fi:8000/en/tankman_sortie/log/2236184/?tour=47

I recently,  say within the last month on a Moscow map I believe,  encountered a squad  bombing  1 of our stations.  I had decided to fly CAP,  and that was my area.  Now,  they came in,  IL2's I believe to attack.  I believe I shot down an IL2.  Now, fast forward @30 minutes,   another IL2.  I also see some friendly in the area flying a 109 I shoot down the IL2, the 109 shoots me down after repeated firing, repeated FF messages.   Is that a thing now on fvp  to  have you squad fly opfor and shoot down nme   or recon your bombing raids and shoot down attackers ?

[357th_Dog]

2 hours ago, 13/JG5_Luck said:

I share your insights and agree to your conclusions but I decline your wording: "Nazi Aces" does not hit the nail. The political situation in the 3rd Reich was much more complex. There have been dedicated nazi pilots as the Stuka Ass Rudolf, but there have been many Aces without Nazi conviction, e.g. Mölders. who simply fought for their Vaterland. Your posting otherwise is based on a decent understanding of history, your wording should reflect this in the Nazi-issues as well.

They were fighting to ensure victory for the end goals of the Nazi Party and thus were willing participants. They were actively engaged in combat knowing what the end result of a German victory would be and thus share in the moral guilt of the end result. 
   Pilots in particular have little excuse considering how easy it would be for them to seek shelter by defection either to the allies or being interred in officially neutral Sweden or Switzerland. 

Do yourself a favor and rid the imaginary concept of the clean German warrior, but given your username, I suspect thats going to be a nonstarter. 

[JG1_Wittmann]

4 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

I know this is a "side effect" of the geography of the Kuban Map, but there are situations where the large Allied depot facilities are generated on the south coast line with the nearest defending airbases being over 100 km away.  There are plenty of usable airfields - sometimes right next to the depot itself that don't get used.  Is there a way to bring at least a temporary field closer to the areas that are pretty much left wide open to attack? 

 

To be fair, I've seen this happen on both sides when the map is 100% land with no sea coast or mountains to complicate things. 

In my opinion, no facilities for either side should generate unless a defending airbase is 40km or less away.  

That is a good point you make.  But on the flip side isn't it like 150km to the nearest nme AF ?

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

2 hours ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

That is a good point you make.  But on the flip side isn't it like 150km to the nearest nme AF ?

 

I'm not sure I see how the effort the attacker has to make to do his work is the "flip side" of what the defender should have to do to accomplish his.  

Once again, this is a side effect of the map geography, but almost always, the Axis depots that are over 150km for Allies to attack also have airbases close enough to keep patrols posted nearby or rapid response.  

It would make sense if the airfield layout on the map was just this way, but there are multiple airfields near the coastal areas that get generated at other times when the mission period ends and the next frontline begins.

Besides, I'm asking for BOTH sides to get reasonable placement for response/defender airfields across ALL maps so that neither side can say their important facilities are hanging like easy meat for the attackers.   

[13/JG5_Luck]

2 hours ago, 357th_Dog said:

They were fighting to ensure victory for the end goals of the Nazi Party and thus were willing participants. They were actively engaged in combat knowing what the end result of a German victory would be and thus share in the moral guilt of the end result. 
   Pilots in particular have little excuse considering how easy it would be for them to seek shelter by defection either to the allies or being interred in officially neutral Sweden or Switzerland. 

Do yourself a favor and rid the imaginary concept of the clean German warrior, but given your username, I suspect thats going to be a nonstarter. 

I guess you never talked to those who took part in WW 2 on German side, or have lived in this dark days in Germany. One of my teacher flew He 111 over London and for sure, he was no Nazi. My grandfathers and granduncles fought on different theaters, some of them had been beliefers, others were opponents to the Nazi party. The latter fought as well, because this generation had a different view on duty and fought this war, despite they haven't been convinced.  Do me a favour and change your easy black and white look on this part of history, little do you know what happened in those days in Germany. 

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

7 hours ago, 13/JG5_Luck said:

I share your insights and agree to your conclusions but I decline your wording: "Nazi Aces" does not hit the nail. The political situation in the 3rd Reich was much more complex. There have been dedicated nazi pilots as the Stuka Ass Rudolf, but there have been many Aces without Nazi conviction, e.g. Mölders. who simply fought for their Vaterland. Your posting otherwise is based on a decent understanding of history, your wording should reflect this in the Nazi-issues as well.

The pilots of Hermann Göring's Luftwaffe flew and fought for Nazi Germany. I'm not sure why I should extend a very weird form of political correctness to Nazi soldiers that I don't extend to Soviet soldiers. It is simply what the nation is referred to as today, to distinct it from soldiers of Imperial Germany, West Germany, East Germany, the Weimar Republic, et cetera. Similarly, Soviet soldiers to distinct them from the contemporary Russian ones.

 

I'm fully aware that soldiers of an authoritarian regime don't really have a choice in the matter (and even in non authoritarian regimes, nobody is immune to propaganda, conscription, or catch-22), but that doesn't change the fact that they are still wearing the uniform, and as such will be identified as a soldier of that nation. C'est la guerre.

Edited January 28, 2022 by [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly

[Robli]

10 hours ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

The pilots of Hermann Göring's Luftwaffe flew and fought for Nazi Germany. I'm not sure why I should extend a very weird form of political correctness to Nazi soldiers that I don't extend to Soviet soldiers. It is simply what the nation is referred to as today, to distinct it from soldiers of Imperial Germany, West Germany, East Germany, the Weimar Republic, et cetera.

 

Actually it is an interesting form of "political incorrectness" how it is very common and acceptable to refer to German WWII soldiers as "nazis", especially nowadays, when political correctness is taken to quite absurd levels in many other areas. In reality it was a way to de-humanize the enemy, making it psychologically more acceptable for people to kill other people, who are actually bad "nazis" rather than people. Can't really compare that term to Soviet soldiers either, as Soviet Union was the actual name of the country, so that is a neutral term. Comparable term for Soviet pilots might be "commies" as not all of them were actually communists.

Seed for thought, were the American soldiers in Afganistan a couple of years ago trumpists? Now the same soldiers are bidenists? 

 

I think it is better to steer away from political discussions on these forums and obviously no need to blow this nazi-commie terminology out or proportion, but just for educational purposes, not calling German soldiers nazis is not a weird form of political correctness, when for real many of them were not nazis.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Robli

[Otto_bann]

21 hours ago, CountZero said:

.. they just dont see the point of going for them there.

If you are wright, they miss the most interesting part of this similator.

 

On 1/27/2022 at 3:25 PM, HunDread said:

I don't remember the briefing implying egoism and selfishness if someone doesn't follow what's written there. If it does the briefing should be reworded.

The brief should be understood and followed, that's all, this is why it is written. We all know that only a few people read it because the others come to the servers for easy hunting (easier because less dangerous than on dedicated hunting only servers), those ones don't care about briefing.

 

Nobody IRL at war time, took off without read the mission before... and at first because they had to follow the briefing.

 

It's less about following anyone's advice than not seeing the obvious : on servers this simulator is often used at a fraction of its capacities and I'm afraid you're missing the most interesting part. It's very easy for me to tell you about it, I made the same mistake for years.

 

Maybe like me and many others, you have accumulated since long time thousands of kills. But what should be the goal now...? To be able to boast of having made a career of... maybe ten thousand or worse, fifty thousand kills in servers... but on those dedicated at ground attack and at the same time of having been on part of the losing side? If the response is yes, it's sad.

 

Doing only hunting on servers where to win we have to destroy ground targets is for those looking for easier job, for personal stats and to delay to lose or to prevent to lose the map or campaign, because we can't win them by many kills : it's not the same thing at all than to work to win it.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Otto_bann

[HunDread]

1 hour ago, Otto_bann said:

The brief should be understood and followed, that's all, this is why it is written.

 

You lost me with this. Follow whatever you want to follow. BTW I don't disagree with what you are saying, only with what you imply on people who do differently. My only point is that if someone doesn't follow what you do is not necessarily because they have psychological issues like egoism, boasting or selfishness. They just think differently.

 

 

EDIT - I have a better idea

 

I wrote you brief:

 

Location - IL-2 forums

Objective - Express ideas about the FVP server

Objective 2 - Refrain from implying negatives on people who do not follow the other brief you follow

 

Now you can follow this too. this is why it was written.

Edited January 28, 2022 by HunDread

[No_Face]

It can also come from the fact that following the objective of the briefing is not necessarily fun.

 

In airplanes, I don't mind attacking ground targets (factories, train stations, ships), I like to do it with my Stuka or a bigger bomber, I think it's cool (I'm bad in the fighter role, that's why I prefer to do this kind of tasks ?).

Nevertheless, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that you have to destroy the positions until the last AI for the objective to be validated. If that's the case, I don't find that very good, a percentage (90 or 95%) is preferable in my eyes (but maybe it's already the case, it's been a long time since I've played plane in multiplayer).

 

On the other hand, in a tank, attacking the AI gives me no pleasure. What I want to do in tank is PvP (because it's more interesting and it avoids the feeling of playing against a cheater (the AI seeing everything, shooting well etc)) That's why only the capture the flag has a little interest for me. (you just have to hope that the players in front also play the flag).

 

I also find that there are too many AI positions everywhere, it's annoying, it scatters the players and as a tanker, it makes navigation more complicated because the positions are not indicated accurately enough on the map (when they are indicated)

(The fact that there are 2 flags also divides the tankers, it's a shame).

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by No_Face

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

3 hours ago, Robli said:

Can't really compare that term to Soviet soldiers either, as Soviet Union was the actual name of the country, so that is a neutral term.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany

 

Nazi Germany is a neutral term too. Personal beliefs don't enter the equation here, this is simply who they were fighting for.

 

It remains a sore subject in modern Germany for obvious reasons (the notion that one's grandfather was killing for the sake of Generalplan Ost sucks), hence the softer language surrounding this, but ultimately you can't really discuss ww2 luftwaffe tactics, operations or strategy without considering that it was created and lead by a Nazi to advance the ideology of the Nazis, and as such is quite unlike the modern luftwaffe.

Edited January 28, 2022 by [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly

[Otto_bann]

1 hour ago, HunDread said:

... Now you can follow this too. this is why it was written.

Lol! You're funny: you don't want to follow the written briefs that have always existed on the servers, but you want me to follow what you thought 5 min ago

 

1 hour ago, No_Face said:

It can also come from the fact that following the objective of the briefing is not necessarily fun.

 So you aren't in the good server for you IMO...

I don't know what server you fly but I don't think it's  necessary to crush so much 90/95% of ground target for close it.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Otto_bann

[No_Face]

5 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

 So you aren't in the good server for you IMO...

Do you have any servers to suggest?

 

5 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

I don't know what server you fly but I don't think it's  necessary to crush so much 90/95% of ground target for close it.

The server the subject is talking about.

[Otto_bann]

If you don't want follow the brief (no ground work) to chase only, Berloga seems to be a best choice

Edited January 28, 2022 by Otto_bann

[No_Face]

I know my English is bad but can you quote me the place where I say I don't want to attack ground targets? (I'd like to make sure we're talking about the same thing).

Edited January 28, 2022 by No_Face

[JG1_Wittmann]

16 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

 

I'm not sure I see how the effort the attacker has to make to do his work is the "flip side" of what the defender should have to do to accomplish his.  

Once again, this is a side effect of the map geography, but almost always, the Axis depots that are over 150km for Allies to attack also have airbases close enough to keep patrols posted nearby or rapid response.  

It would make sense if the airfield layout on the map was just this way, but there are multiple airfields near the coastal areas that get generated at other times when the mission period ends and the next frontline begins.

Besides, I'm asking for BOTH sides to get reasonable placement for response/defender airfields across ALL maps so that neither side can say their important facilities are hanging like easy meat for the attackers.   

Sometimes. What you describe is true, but I think on balance it happens to both sides equally. At this point in the lines. It appears that. We have bases closer to tgts, only because the line has moved east. Quite often, after the line goes west we have large tgts across the water.  Long distance for allied to bomb. And our closet base is nowhere near there is anapa sometimes. I do believe it would be good. If tgs had defender airfields. As close as possible.  I think each side gets 6 af's with the 2 temps included, not counting the bomber or supply airstart.  If there was a way to have the 4 perm AF's be the closest af to rear depots and stations. And the 2 temps be the closest af's to the front depots.  That would make it fair for both sides and take the randomness of 1 side sometimes having close tgt clusters and af's together. I am not sure if that can be done withe the way their program works but it would make the distances more equitable most often

[HunDread]

34 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

Lol! You're funny: you don't want to follow the written briefs that have always existed on the servers, but you want me to follow what you thought 5 min ago

 

Well, it's a brief and you know the rules about briefs...? 

[Interceptor1997]

Do the Finnish mods know what a joke is? I'm Columbus1492, and the banned me for a joke....

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1 hour ago, JG1_Wittmann said:

Sometimes. What you describe is true, but I think on balance it happens to both sides equally. At this point in the lines. It appears that. We have bases closer to tgts, only because the line has moved east. Quite often, after the line goes west we have large tgts across the water.  Long distance for allied to bomb. And our closet base is nowhere near there is anapa sometimes. I do believe it would be good. If tgs had defender airfields. As close as possible.  I think each side gets 6 af's with the 2 temps included, not counting the bomber or supply airstart.  If there was a way to have the 4 perm AF's be the closest af to rear depots and stations. And the 2 temps be the closest af's to the front depots.  That would make it fair for both sides and take the randomness of 1 side sometimes having close tgt clusters and af's together. I am not sure if that can be done withe the way their program works but it would make the distances more equitable most often

 

I would be more in favor of having the sector 1 temporary field be as close to the center of the sector 1 facilities - rail, front depot, rear depot (if possible) and the same for the sector 2 temporary field and its corresponding facilities.   That way, if the sector 1 areas and sector 2 areas are very far apart from each other, they can be covered without taking the fully-armed fields too far away from the frontlines.   I don't think that having to fly a supply run to the temps at the beginning of the map should be much of an issue because, most of the time, the time to supply then scramble defenders should be a bit quicker than any first-strikers looking to capitalize on getting a big hit in when the new mission period begins.

 

I see what you're saying about Kuban, but I will say that the size of land mass in the west vs. east gives a little less "spread" to the team occupying the west.  That's why I also put forward the other maps which see both sides having no such geography to contend with - except for some patches of barren land with sparse cities, towns and usable airfield placement as those maps have a much more equal possibility of both sides getting a bad placement for facilities.

 

Overall, it seems that we agree that fine-tuning the system (if possible) to give both sides better coverage for defense reaction would be a good thing.

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by 69th_Mobile_BBQ

[Robli]

2 hours ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

Nazi Germany is a neutral term too. Personal beliefs don't enter the equation here, this is simply who they were fighting for.

 

Nazi Germany might be a neutral term, because nazis were in power in Germany, but calling some soldier a nazi, even if he certainly was not a nazi, is simply incorrect. As simple as that.

Also quite weird why western allies allowed nazis (by your standards) like Johannes Steinhoff become heads of Luftwaffe after the war. Allowed nazis to important NATO positions. Americans and French even gave him medals during Cold War. Were they also nazi collaborators?

[JG1_Wittmann]

Mobile,   those are all good points your making.   Supply runs  usually do happen  soon after a mission start but sometimes that depends on who is flying.   I  have noticed,  and it's not just related to Kuban,   That sometimes the placement of the Temp AF's  is so close to a permanent one   that they sometimes do not even get opened up.    I wish the placement of those could be far enough so this doesn't happen.   I  often open up temps  to get tanks spawn open by it.  I also think  it's good to have the temps closer to the frontlines rather than a permanent one because the temps are  in reality   supposed to represent frontline  AF's   more hastily constructed and not more permanent ones .  Overall, I think our flying times are very short but the oddities  of how the fields are placed  makes me wish  I could know more of how that decision gets processed.    I would actually like to see a tank spawn at all of the AF's  not just the temps.  They may not get used all the time,  but due to the way the map sometimes seems wonky in AF placement  it could be of some benefit  without really adding alot of taxing on the server

[JV44Stacko]

I don’t post very often about general server topics but I wanted to weigh into the debate about the way people choose to play on FVP.

 

  I believe the best part about FVP is the variety it offers: people can play IL-2 in almost any fashion that it was designed for. If you want to fly air to air dogfights, ground attack in Jabo / Fighter-bombers, level bomb or even play tanks on the ground: you can. If you want to fly solo or fly in a group you have that choice too.

 

  Also, don’t discount the effect of air to air roles at the front. The amount of planes lost over a 5 hour mission really effects the total points for each side in terms of front line movement.  I’ve even taken to flying the outclassed 190 A3 in late war plane sets by circling over friendly rear depots and industrial targets and waiting for the enemy to come in as single planes and destroying them, or when a raid of 3 A20’s and escorts show up, I’ll circle high and call in the rest of the luftwaffe with regular position reports to harass them the whole way home.  
 

  Being upset about people not following the briefing isn’t going to change behaviour.  The best you can do if you want to see different behaviour is to drive that change yourself.  Get on discord and encourage others to do so, organise raids with escorts or high altitude fighter sweeps (if that’s what you like) or just try to find a wingman. Yes, it takes a bit of effort and sometimes, you still won’t get the result you want - that’s just life. There will always be the guys who just want to lone wolf - that’s fine - because the game offers something for everyone and that’s the best part. And it’s a credit to the Finnish guys who’ve set up a server with the time allowance and the plane sets to offer something for everyone.

 

  Restricting plane load outs and limiting peoples choices about what they can and can’t do isn’t the solution.  It will only destroy the fragile player base that currently exists and scatter people to the winds.

 

  If you want to see more focus on the mission objectives in the time you are playing you need to make it more attractive to the people around you to do that.  You need to be the change.  

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

1 hour ago, Robli said:

Also quite weird why western allies allowed nazis (by your standards) like Johannes Steinhoff become heads of Luftwaffe after the war. Allowed nazis to important NATO positions. Americans and French even gave him medals during Cold War. Were they also nazi collaborators?

The allies allowed former Nazis to join various parts of the armed forces of west germany becuase the western powers believed that west germany needed to have an army in case the third world war broke out, which required a lot of whitewashing. That didn't stop, say, Günther Rall from acknowledging that his uncritical support of the Nazi party was a great failing,  and Johannes Steinhof was already critical of the Nazi party in 1945, but that doesn't change the fact that either of them used to work for the Nazis (and neither of them deny that they used to be collaborators). Again, c'est la guerre. Stuff like the clean wehrmacht myth and the discussion on whether Audenauer's governments pardon of a lot of lower-rank Nazis (or the American's use of Wernher von Braun) was justified is a discussion for another thread. That a lot of these guys stopped being nazis and disavowing the things they had done doesn't change the fact that, again, the WW2 Luftwaffe was a direct arm of the Nazi Party.

 

You know what, if you disagree with this, feel free to take it up with the german ministery of education. I'm done.

[Robli]

53 minutes ago, [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly said:

You know what, if you disagree with this, feel free to take it up with the german ministery of education. I'm done.

 

I have no need to take it to any ministery as any sane person would know than not all German soldiers were nazis. It has nothing to do with clean wehrmacht myth. It is not like there are only options for 0% being nazis or 100% being nazis.

Anyway, I am done here slso. It is like arguing with flat-earthers, if someone just chooses to deny facts then there is no point of presenting any facts to him.

Edited January 28, 2022 by Robli

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

6 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

If you don't want follow the brief (no ground work) to chase only, Berloga seems to be a best choice

 

Sorry to interject, but I disagree.  There are some pilots who are not very good at twisting, turning dogfights, but can line up 3 or 4 enemies on a boom and zoom run over 30+km and get out before anybody can do anything about it.  Berloga doesn't really offer any way to even set up for scenarios like that.

[[F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly]

4 hours ago, Robli said:

 

I have no need to take it to any ministery as any sane person would know than not all German soldiers were nazis. It has nothing to do with clean wehrmacht myth. It is not like there are only options for 0% being nazis or 100% being nazis.

I get it, we're talking past eachother. I'm not making the claim that all german soldiers were nazis in the ways one thinks of nazis - in no small part becuase a significant amount of german soldiers didn't serve when the nazis were in power - this is why this distinction is important! - in ww2 in particular, the nazis conscripted a lot of soldiers from groups of people who they wanted to exterminate. In particular, the pioneer divisions (ie the "put an explosive very close to the enemy and then blow it up, Viel Gluck!" part of the job) had quite a few communists and jews in them. It's not like they were given much of a choice. The U-boot division wasn't exactly pro nazi either, and ofc. there's the whole bit about conscription adn the like that I talked about before. They still wore nazi uniforms and followed nazi orders in service of nazi germany, but it's not like they did so willingly. The Waffen SS conscripted people at gunpoint, and whilst nobody in their right mind would argue that the Waffen SS wasn't a nazi organization, the people that they conscripted do get a pass. An amount of political correctness (as opposed to the technical correctness of "If you wear a uniform of a faction, and follow the orders of that faction, you belong to that faction") here is nothing more then prudent.

 

This doesn't really apply to the Nazi luftwaffe. Luftwaffe pilots were not drafted, they volunteered. They took orders from Hermann Göring, second in command of the NSDAP and Nazi Germany as a whole. The Luftwaffe built and operated concentration camps where they worked prisoners to death to build fighters, actively took part in the annihilation of the jews (particularely hungarian jews), and performed medical experiments on prisoners for the sake of improving their pilots' performance. Luftwaffe fallschirmjäger divisions massacred entire towns of civilians, the Luftwaffe bomber command purposefully targeted civilian populations even before WW2 had started (they fought for the Fascists of the spanish civil war). The Luftwaffe, on par with the SS, belonged to the NSDAP (to Göring personally, even). And as such, its pilots also belonged to the NSDAP, even if they didn't dig very deep into what that actually meant. That doesn't mean they're irredeemably evil (unlike Göring), but that does mean they were the Nazi's aces. War is hell.

Edited January 29, 2022 by [F.Circus]MoerasGrizzly

[Haza]

Hi,

I have noticed that during the last 5 days or so, I keep getting kicked from the server either at the map stage as I am logging in or within a couple of minutes of game play.  I have no other issues with other servers or general internet issues. 

 

Therefore, has anybody else experienced or is experiencing any internet/connection issues with this server? Thank you.

 

Regards

Edited January 29, 2022 by Haza

[StaB/Tomio_VR***]

13 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

If you don't want follow the brief (no ground work) to chase only, Berloga seems to be a best choice

Briefs also stipulate to defend...

What about people who like to search & hunt enemy attackers/bombers. There isn't any on Berloga.

What about people who like historical planeset/map.

 

 

Berloga is just for training and 1 vs 1 skill

You can't make any organised thing there because of airstart and because it isn't the purpose

Edited January 29, 2022 by StaB/Tomio_VR***

[Honza89]

1 hour ago, Haza said:

Hi,

I have noticed that during the last 5 days or so, I keep getting kicked from the server either at the map stage as I am logging in or within a couple of minutes of game play.  I have no other issues with other servers or general internet issues. 

 

Therefore, has anybody else experienced or is experiencing any internet/connection issues with this server? Thank you.

 

Regards

 

I have the same problem and some people on dicord were talking about it too. I wasnt even able to connect to server for 30min even there were 81/84 players only.

[Otto_bann]

7 hours ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

Briefs also stipulate to defend...

Yes, for those who don't fly to winning, but for delaying or preventing losing... what a poor goal.

 

14 hours ago, 69th_Mobile_BBQ said:

... There are some pilots who are not very good at twisting, turning dogfights, but can line up 3 or 4 enemies on a boom and zoom run over 30+km and get out before anybody can do anything about it.

 

Your response is a good picture of what I talking about : You speak only about fighters... in server speaking in his brief about ground targets.

 

Stako: there is no irritation on my part but just a sad statement that I am trying to show at the community who curiousely, don't seems to see it.

So sum up by this last post: I playing IL2 since long time, also when we were hundreds playing every night. And I've noticed for a few years now that a large majority of people has left our servers or this simulator. I spoke with several of them : all or almost all are tired of being reduced to fighter fights on ~all of servers (Berloga style but everywhere). Wherever they were connected to make bombing, they were among ~90% and more of fighters standing them on their way for an easy kill, but no one pour make their cover...

 

Often I fly on this server and on another one, I don't see only one bomber in all of the evening, or when the mission starts and there are many of us on the runway, I'm the only one with a bomb under my plane... Believe me : with time in this way, this simulator will die.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Otto_bann

[LLv26_Junnu]

6 hours ago, Honza89 said:

 

I have the same problem and some people on dicord were talking about it too. I wasnt even able to connect to server for 30min even there were 81/84 players only.

There is (or was) a bug who shows only 81 player at full server 

26 minutes ago, Otto_bann said:

I often I fly on this server and on another one, I don't see only one bomber in all of the evening, or when the mission starts and there are many of us on the runway, I'm the only one with a bomb under my plane... Believe me : with time in this way, this simulator will die.

We (LLv26) fly Mostly bombers at almost every day. And believe me, we wont want anybody see us while it.

[[U99]OttoU99]

 

 «Ordnung ist das halbe Leben»

 

Many thanks to server owners Finnish VirtualPilots - Dynamic War LLv34_Untamo and LLv34_Temuri!!!
This is the best server!

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

1 hour ago, Otto_bann said:

 

 

 

Your response is a good picture of what I talking about : You speak only about fighters... in server speaking in his brief about ground targets.

 

 

That's all well and good, but let me ask....   How many thousands or tens-of-thousands or hundreds-of-thousands of points have the bombers you were escorting brought home while personally scoring 0 because the sortie went without need to fire a shot?    Not all of us "derp" around for hours "doing nothing" in a fighter, even if it looks that way. Besides, I'll play the damn game the way I want to, even if I am "derping around doing nothing". 

 

I still stand by what i said about Berloga though.

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

6 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

 

 

Often I fly on this server and on another one, I don't see only one bomber in all of the evening, or when the mission starts and there are many of us on the runway, I'm the only one with a bomb under my plane... Believe me : with time in this way, this simulator will die.

 

Wait a minute...  What are you flying?  It sounds like a fighter with a bomb.  A fighter. With a bomb.  Yet, you're arguing with people that they need to fly bombers and heavy attackers?  ? 

[13/JG5_Luck]

21 hours ago, Robli said:

 

I have no need to take it to any ministery as any sane person would know than not all German soldiers were nazis. It has nothing to do with clean wehrmacht myth. It is not like there are only options for 0% being nazis or 100% being nazis.

Anyway, I am done here slso. It is like arguing with flat-earthers, if someone just chooses to deny facts then there is no point of presenting any facts to him.

Thx!

[JV44Stacko]

8 hours ago, Otto_bann said:

Yes, for those who don't fly to winning, but for delaying or preventing losing... what a poor goal.

 

 

In real life, the Battle of Britain was fought by the RAF in defence.  And it was their greatest victory of the war.