Tactical Air War

[StG77_Kondor]

Oh noes. Was that almost like 20 vs 4 in the evenings? 

And yet....the Allies CRUSHED. Look at the numbers. Sure they lost more trucks (ooooohhh) and AA (ahhhhh), but in every other statistical category, the Russians ran the floor - all while still being outnumbered more often than not. Do the numbers need to be 40 vs 5 for the results to be competitive? Or do the usual leaderboard 'winners' need to have a life besides flying?

 

Honestly, why would a ground attacker like me bother with this server? 

 

Basically the way it's set up with the tanks, the Germans do not have a tank killer like the IL-2. Period. You can get pretty good with a Ju88 (which we don't have available because? why?) and dropping those 50kg's. Stuka with 37mm isn't viable unless there's no flak, and no fighter (lol or even if an IL-2 finds you) opposition. You can maybe get 3 tanks per sortie if you're lucky. If the tanks continue to be a map 'winner' statistic. Blue will continue to lose no matter how much they outnumber red. 

 

I want this server to succeed. And more often than not I am having fun on the server. At that point I'll just treat it like WoL, where you just fly for fun, not to 'win the war'. 

[Haza]

Gents,

 

Just out of interest, I have seen guys spawn into the game and when you check their current status within the game a lot of players are "greyed" out so I'm assuming that means they are not flying as they have not spawned into an aircraft!?  I think the graph above is a great way to check numbers but does it actually show that they are playing in game or just in game?

 

I'm at the stage where watching about 2 guys turn a couple of areas almost on their own is starting to become another WOL for me as I don't appear to be able to get near an airbase/target before I'm covered in flak (even with + 4 of us attacking it). It was interesting watching a video I saw recently where one individual was almost at our airbase (<3km low level) and I do not recall seeing any flak just a 109 with its lights on pouring out smoke and i-16 tracer everywhere chasing the 109.

 

I'm no gaming expert and I have no issue with the TAW server as I think that it perhaps the most realistic (as you can get within limits) server that we have, however, I agree with Kondor. Surely there must be a way of either limiting what aircraft are available or the amount of fuel you can take when your bases have been so badly damaged or is this another good idea that in real terms is just to difficult to model.  

 

However, the one thing that i would REALLY REALLY like to see would be a set of recce pictures for each airfield as happened with some of the CLOD ATAG games.  I'm still struggling to see ground building targets on an airfield until I'm directly over the airfield at 6K with bombs gone.  Now I have tried to change my PC settings and I realise that I could get lower (flak and amazing I-16s that appear to be able to find you) however, even if the recce pictures were old and out of date (owing to previous attacks) it would at least give me an idea of what to line up on.  I would soon drop bombs on previously destroyed objectives than drop on open ground.  

 

Last point, I still firmly believe that hiding the objectives on the map so that the other side can't see your objectives is the way forward and better co-ordination.  

 

Anyway, enough from me, however, cheers to the TAW guys for creating an enjoyable although at times frustrating server.  I'm do enjoy how things can change so quickly and even dropping bombs way off target because I forgot wind drift for me all adds to this server. 

 

Regards

 

PS.  Just realised the map has rolled.  Ditto Kondor above!

Edited February 17, 2017 by Haza

[Tuesday]

Gents,

 

Just out of interest, I have seen guys spawn into the game and when you check their current status within the game a lot of players are "greyed" out so I'm assuming that means they are not flying as they have not spawned into an aircraft!?  I think the graph above is a great way to check numbers but does it actually show that they are playing in game or just in game?

 

I've been getting a bug recently where I am flying VVS, but for a few people I appear "greyed" out, but for others it shows properly me as VVS. 

 

Not sure if they grabbed screens or not.

[JG1_Pragr]

Oh noes. Was that almost like 20 vs 4 in the evenings? 

 

And I dont see that in those charts here:

...

 

Yesterday (17. 2.) webpage shows 6:1 to 8:1 for Reds between 8 and 9 am CET.

 

It was during that time when SDV_Fin*19 got following sortie:

http://taw-server.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=6350&name=SDV_Fin*19

Btw, are tanks destroyed by AI defense during attacking the town counted into that 400 pool? 

[[CPT]Pike*HarryM]

PZ 38T are ridiculously easy to kill compared to Pz IV, maybe the ratio needs to be changed around. 

[JG1_Pragr]

...

Basically the way it's set up with the tanks, the Germans do not have a tank killer like the IL-2. Period. You can get pretty good with a Ju88 (which we don't have available because? why?) and dropping those 50kg's. Stuka with 37mm isn't viable unless there's no flak, and no fighter (lol or even if an IL-2 finds you) opposition. You can maybe get 3 tanks per sortie if you're lucky. If the tanks continue to be a map 'winner' statistic. Blue will continue to lose no matter how much they outnumber red. 

...

 

The main issue, as you mentioned and I see it too is unbalanced tank destruction capability. We have unhistorical balanced fighter setup even if it means there is late 1940 Emil vs late 1941/early 1942 I-16 with ShVAKs. That's OK and I think nobody complain about. But once I mentioned before, there is a huge disproportion between Soviet and German tank killing options, I was argued it's historically correct thus nothing shall be changed. I'm getting some ideas how to improve this situation but I think it's too early to make conclusion nor change anything on current campaign. I still think there could be some "workarounds" for German side how to win a map regardless the tank limit.

 

About the Pz38/PzIV ratio. Any German tank of PzIII/IV class is easy prey for VYa cannons. You need some ten hits from side to burned German tanks with 30 mm armor, which is miles from reality. But that isn't TAW issue, it's the way (though wrong) the game designers implemented it and we have to deal with.

[DeP]

Stalingrad_Center #77

 

Mission Ende:

 

Mission Start:

 

Where did the tanks in the north?

It happens all the time!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Rall33

[Haza]

The main issue, as you mentioned and I see it too is unbalanced tank destruction capability. We have unhistorical balanced fighter setup even if it means there is late 1940 Emil vs late 1941/early 1942 I-16 with ShVAKs. That's OK and I think nobody complain about. But once I mentioned before, there is a huge disproportion between Soviet and German tank killing options, I was argued it's historically correct thus nothing shall be changed. I'm getting some ideas how to improve this situation but I think it's too early to make conclusion nor change anything on current campaign. I still think there could be some "workarounds" for German side how to win a map regardless the tank limit.

 

About the Pz38/PzIV ratio. Any German tank of PzIII/IV class is easy prey for VYa cannons. You need some ten hits from side to burned German tanks with 30 mm armor, which is miles from reality. But that isn't TAW issue, it's the way (though wrong) the game designers implemented it and we have to deal with.

 

Pragr,

 

If you were referring to my comments about "historically accuracy" I do not recall saying anything about that it shouldn't be changed or was that your interpretation.  I believe that we should try and be historically accurate as far as possible and allowing aircraft into a battle that was never there should be avoided (although I did touch on the FW190 in BOS) and I'm not sure that the JU87 G version with anti-tank gun was in service during BOM either, although happy to be corrected, as ever!

 

However, what the TAW guys decide have in the game is down to them as it is their server.  Regarding tanks, I always assumed that the Russians had a ratio of 3:1 tanks over the Germans, however, i'm not sure what types of marks etc.

 

The fact remains that this is a game and we need to try and encourage players to play, whilst being as realistic as possible, therefore, I for one would entertain any suggestions that would help maintain interest as the way we play may not be how things happened in history and that is part of the fun to change the past, perhaps!?  That said and to be very blunt, the way the last map was turned and by so few (No Churchill references please), during my time-zone, I'm now less likely to bother playing when certain players are on as they appear to have an ability to not only destroy ground objectives at leisure but appear to be able to track down Luftwaffe aircraft with amazing ease (enough said).

 

Regards

[=GW=xshinel]

The dot in the airfield symbol can always expose us, then been intercepted by the enemy fighters , can the server disable that function? Let the pilot do the recon job, not just by open the map.

[Haza]

With all respect but

 

Russians wins from the tanks?! No! 

In Russian there is a saying: To a bad dancer are balls obstacle. 

Blues had had all to win. Actually the day before yesterday we thought that the map is lost.

For the Redside that all was really the Overcome

Sorry my english

 

Here we have a saying "BigChieftalking*olloks"

[SDV_Fin*19_]

And that blue megabomb not? Red did not whine about megabomby, then let's to lock all the SC1000)

[=GW=xshinel]

And that blue megabomb not? Red did not whine about megabomby, then let's to lock all the SC1000)

SC1000 is in the history, dot in the airfield symbol not

[Haza]

And that blue megabomb not? Red did not whine about megabomby, then let's to lock all the SC1000)

 

I'm not aware of any whining, perhaps you are misunderstanding points of views as whining.

I have seen little employment of the 1000kg bomb and indeed when I used two from 2000m from an He111 on a convoy it had little effect.  Therefore, owing to the fact that perhaps few players playing Luftwaffe have used the bomb to any large extent to cause any major damage, perhaps this is why the Reds have not "whinned" about the "megabomb".  In deed it would appear that either an IL2 or Pe 2 operating in isolation can take out a convoy better than 2 x 1000kg bombs from an He111.  However, just my observation and certainly not a whine, although I would like to see the SC1800 in game as this has been locked. 

 

I for one will not whine about a game that only serves to entertain me, although at times it can be frustrating.  If I'm no longer entertained or I believe that the game is being won by a few guys, no matter what airfields or other objectives remain, I can leave and play on another server that has either more players or appears to be more evenly matched as even now the servers reflect TAW: 6, WOL:32 and Action:6, so perhaps players in my time-zone are already moving away.  However, I can only hope that we do not get to the stage where players start to leave permanently and will try to make suggestions about improving the game, regardless, as others have done.  Whether I agree to other players suggestions is not really relevant as it is up to the TAW admins to change the game as they see fit.

 

Regards

Edited February 18, 2017 by Haza

[SDV_Fin*19_]

I'm not aware of any whining, perhaps you are misunderstanding points of views as whining.

I have seen little employment of the 1000kg bomb and indeed when I used two from 2000m from an He111 on a convoy it had little effect.  Therefore, owing to the fact that perhaps few players playing Luftwaffe have used the bomb to any large extent to cause any major damage, perhaps this is why the Reds have not "whinned" about the "megabomb".  In deed it would appear that either an IL2 or Pe 2 operating in isolation can take out a convoy better than 2 x 1000kg bombs from an He111.  However, just my observation and certainly not a whine, although I would like to see the SC1800 in game as this has been locked. 

 

I for one will not whine about a game that only serves to entertain me, although at times it can be frustrating.  If I'm no longer entertained or I believe that the game is being won by a few guys, no matter what airfields or other objectives remain, I can leave and play on another server that has either more players or appears to be more evenly matched as even now the servers reflect TAW:10, WOL:25 Action:6, so perhaps players in my time-zone are already moving away.  However, I can only hope that we do not get to the stage where players start to leave permanently and will try to make suggestions about improving the game, regardless, as others have done.  Whether I agree to other players suggestions is not really relevant as it is up to the TAW admins to change the game as they see fit.

 

Regards

Since the game has a lot of purposes, except for the tanks. For other purposes SC1000 provide an enormous advantage and benefit of red only on the tank target. So everything is fair.

 

 

SC1000 is in the history, dot in the airfield symbol not

A IL-2 with guns VYA not historically?     

Edited February 18, 2017 by SDV_Fin_19

[SharpeXB]

The AAA is too deadly, I can`t survive even one attack, if you will not change it, I`m not playing anyomore!!!

 

Yes the AAA is way too deadly and it spoils all the gameplay. You can't go near a target area without being shot down almost instantly. And hardly anyone in these sims ever flies as a team so if the intent is to force that with super sniper AAA then nobody will end up playing here. Online flight sim games never have the kind of participation to make any sort of realistic formations possible. It would take every player that owns the game playing all at once. Mission designers on these servers never seem to get the idea that there's only a dozen people ever on at a time. Targets are spread out too far and there's too many, the 12 players online will never see each other. Edited February 18, 2017 by SharpeXB

[Haza]

Since the game has a lot of purposes, except for the tanks. For other purposes SC1000 provide an enormous advantage and benefit of red only on the tank target. So everything is fair.

 

 

A IL-2 with guns VYA not historically?     

 

And there was me thinking that the majority of games won by VVS since the start of TAW have been owing to the number of tanks destroyed, even though there appears to be lots of other objectives to hit.  Therefore, I think your statement is rather weak as the so called enormous advantage is lost when the VVS can hit more tanks!  As I said, my dealings with the SC1000 is that it is not as effective when used from an He111 as although you may hit a factory that produces tanks, this lack of tanks perhaps works in the VVS favour, as fewer tanks, means fewer targets to reach 400. An observation and not a whine, before the whine police arrive!  Speaking of whine, I'm off for a glass of wine!!

 

 

 

Regards

Edited February 18, 2017 by Haza

[Haza]

Haza, the blue side could win the 1 Map already 2 days ago. By one hit.

What hindered? So many players. Better planes. Dominance in all but tanks (russian bias )

Destroying tanks was the last chance for the red side (by the end of the Map, not from begin!). Blue side had much more chances. 

 

I have little time for those who claim bias or those who try to troll with the bias BS.  The majority of maps have been turned by hitting tanks, therefore all the other effort to hit other targets perhaps is wasted.  I have played both red and blue so I have no loyalty or geographical alliance to either side as it is a game for me.  I currently enjoy flying the JU52 as it it one of the few servers that allow JU52 missions that actually have an impact. Whether Blue side had more chances is neither here nor there, however, I'm thinking that future playing numbers will have a bearing for me as TAW numbers in my time zone appear to be falling very quickly, almost to the point where it is no longer worth even joining in (Currently  WOL:32, TAW: 5  (1 Blue and 4 Red)).  Therefore, I will say no more on this matter.

 

Regards 

Edited February 18, 2017 by Haza

[HR_Tumu]

SDV ... u wrong all know il2 have a auto aim and fly alone..... rest of red planes have similar supertech advances ... In facts, red pilot only are a waist of fuel for planes.

Edited February 18, 2017 by RedEye_Tumu

[SDV_Fin*19_]

Пчелы перехватчики (Bees hooks)!

Edited February 18, 2017 by SDV_Fin_19

[HR_Tumu]

Seriosly....

 

 

If red have good results on tank atack whit il2 cannon...

 

... solution will be forbide 23mm???   maybe blues need start whit the double of tanks ?? what have to do ???

 

But first to do something.... maybe was nice, see more Blues on defence task... its rarelly see bfs defending here tanks.

 

And i doubt blues cant do nothing for have better results on tank attack.

[Major_Issue]

Since I participated in some attacks on tank columns I saw what our il2 and Pe 2 were capable. Long range supression of the AA and AA dragging. Attacks with 5+ planes at once. While defending our tanks? Oh a lonely Stuka....

[Haza]

Tell your spouse to piss off.

 

That's what I do.  Works wonders!

 

I've never heard you tell my spouse that before!!!

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Guys there are no 109s at the German tanks. There are no...

[Haza]

Guys there are no 109s at the German tanks. There are no...

 

So 4 days ago you were saying that the Luftwaffe were defending when they should have been in the offensive role and now you are saying that they are not defending.

I'm now seeing a total lack of interest from some blue players with TAW so perhaps you can add not being offensive, defensive or bothered to your list of advice.

Not exactly Sun Tzu, however from the one or two guys that Reds appear to depend on, I have this:

 

"It is agreed that air power is resource-intensive, but skillful employment of this coveted capability-leveraging its positive characteristics to overcome the slightly weaker areas - can reduce the cost of war by ensuring a swift victory" Sanu Kainikara.

 

 

Regards

Edited February 18, 2017 by Haza

[JG1_Pragr]

Seems like there is so much of scream here for last few hours.

 

First and foremost please stop arguing about historical accuracy. It cannot be the main goal for the game though I wish it could. If historical accurate noone would play the VVS side for first 2.5 years. After that noone would be playing for LW because most people prefer the best available top tier plane.

 

About the level od cooperation on both side. It seems to be equal. I saw several lonely attackers over German target as well as I've seen many coordinated attacks against Soviet targets. For 15 years experience of online flying on both side of conflict I can say there is no better or worse side in terms of cooperation though in many cases the winning side claims it is against many odd due superior organisation.

Edited February 18, 2017 by I./JG1_Pragr

[FTC_DerSheriff]

So 4 days ago you were saying that the Luftwaffe were defending when they should have been in the offensive role and now you are saying that they are not defending.

I'm now seeing a total lack of interest from some blue players with TAW so perhaps you can add not being offensive, defensive or bothered to your list of advice.

Not exactly Sun Tzu, however from the one or two guys that Reds appear to depend on, I have this:

 

"It is agreed that air power is resource-intensive, but skillful employment of this coveted capability-leveraging its positive characteristics to overcome the slightly weaker areas - can reduce the cost of war by ensuring a swift victory" Sanu Kainikara.

 

 

Regards

I did say they are attacking the wrong targets. And they do. While pounding the crap out of the axis tanks I saw a message, that they attacking tanks of ur team again. 

 

Ok the situation was the following in the afternoon:

 

Both teams had roughly equal numbers, however that shifted towards a 2:1 in the evening pro axis.

The allies only had like 30 Tanks to destroy. The axis more than 100.

in one mission the axis had no tanks.

The allies had one serviceable airfield. Which was attackable.

 

What do you do? Right, ether you bomb the crap out of that one airfield to seal the deal, or you defend the tanks. 

 

But bombers did not attack the airfield, and 109s were rarely seen at the tanks. 

 

 

[JG1_Pragr]

To RedSherif:

 

According to the TAW manual undamaged town defense should have no problem to deal with undamaged tank column. The level of AF damage has no influence on ground operations except para drops. Thus the only viable option under such circumstances would be to focus attacks on defense positions to softening them as much as possible and covering tanks as secondary mission. So what did you offer is wrong in most part.

Edited February 18, 2017 by I./JG1_Pragr

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Ehm u can close the airfield by destroying things on the airfield. I think at the moment it is 90% damage as a threshold. But I am now out of here.
 

Edited February 18, 2017 by TheRedSheriff

[216th_Jordan]

Sheriff is right, if you close the last airfield the map is over.

[bald_eagle]

Guys there are no 109s at the German tanks. There are no...

Some hotshot fighter pilot defected Not every one can fly fighter effectively.

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Some hotshot fighter pilot defected Not every one can fly fighter effectively.

Yeah, I see some good pilots switched sides, after nobody else wanted to switch.

[Willy__]

Guys guys guys, red will win like they always do, blue are not allowed to win. 

 

Stop with the all the whining and go play, either in TAW or other server.

[bald_eagle]

Yeah, I see some good pilots switched sides, after nobody else wanted to switch.

Yes. The situation at the beginning was ridiculous with the axis number advantage.

But now:

http://taw.stg2.de/stats.php?page=0&search_name=&col_name=AK&sort=DESC

 

in the 25 first air kill list, only 5 are axis.

There were almost no fighter pilot on the axis side. So it was impossible to attack. 

[=FEW=ayamoth89]

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198008146946/screenshots/

 

We really love weather and time settings on this server: maybe a little bit more night time will be appreciated!

Edited February 18, 2017 by =FEW=ayamoth89

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Stalingrad_Center #77

 

Mission Ende:

 

Mission Start:

 

Where did the tanks in the north?

It happens all the time!

Defense position in Evseev was destroyed and advancing tanks convoy captured the city of Evseev. All events are in the mission briefing. 

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198008146946/screenshots/

 

We really love weather and time settings on this server: maybe a little bit more night time will be appreciated!

If you provide me minimum start time of the mission and maximum end time of the mission for each month then I will introduce it.

[=FEW=N3cRoo]

The side with less players is simply more attractive for fighter pilots.

Movements of the german players are realtively easy to predict and this campaign literally half of the number of planes encountered for us where alone mby 2 but rarely more. (If you are covering the most obvious target with 4 109s we simply dont go there  )

 

Also gotta give a shoutout to TWB and 19th doing nice well scaled coordinated attacks

[Haza]

Guys guys guys, red will win like they always do, blue are not allowed to win. 

 

Stop with the all the whining and go play, either in TAW or other server.

 

Staiger,

 

I apologise if I appear to be whining, but I think you are being a little bit silly thinking that Blues can not win.  However, I would like to personally thank you for your words of advice and to thank your Jager gang for all the help in TAW as I know that you are all so passionate about flying blue.  

 

Regards

 

Haza 

Пчелы перехватчики (Bees hooks)!

 

A good video and hats off to those guys in the He111 and Ju52s as I've never seen such formations in my time-zone.  Therefore, it is nice to see that players are forming up with he111s and ju52s.  Perhaps I need to either stay awake at night or move time-zones.

 

regards

Edited February 18, 2017 by Haza

[JG4_Moritz]

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=8620&name==FACH=Walter_Nowotny

 

today i shot down an IL-2 but the kill did not go to my stats, whats wrong with that ?

 

atb 

[Willy__]

 

 

I apologise if I appear to be whining, but I think you are being a little bit silly thinking that Blues can not win.  However, I would like to personally thank you for your words of advice and to thank your Jager gang for all the help in TAW as I know that you are all so passionate about flying blue.    

 

Hi Haza, I didnt mean to pick on you! I honestly lost any hope of blues winning the TAW campaign. Most guys of my squadron dont have BoM and by the time BoS planes become available (maps 4-5+), its pratically over with reds winning so I've been flying on TAW less and less. Another thing is the unbalance of the sides that I dont see... In my time-zone and the hours that I play its almost even on both sides, with an average of 5 pilots per side.

[Haza]

Hi Haza, I didnt mean to pick on you! I honestly lost any hope of blues winning the TAW campaign. Most guys of my squadron dont have BoM and by the time BoS planes become available (maps 4-5+), its pratically over with reds winning so I've been flying on TAW less and less. Another thing is the unbalance of the sides that I dont see... In my time-zone and the hours that I play its almost even on both sides, with an average of 5 pilots per side.

I never thought you were picking on me and to be honest at my age I no longer care but was teasing perhaps a little bit. However it would appear that we are both having the same issues in our respective time zones. I think I will stick with my JU52 and just do as Kondor suggested before. I will see you in WOL.

Regards

Edited February 18, 2017 by Haza