Tactical Air War

[t1m0n_ua]

Your points are logical and true but...

Now we should listen some voice from the red side and obviously we all know the result.

1-1 so what we can do ?

 

Numbers, check the numbers. 

 

I respect your opinion but also I belive in math and statistic.

If I see that average pilot can have 10-20 targets in Pe-2 and average He-111 driver can bring 20-40 or even 50+it means that something is not well balanced.

I just care about the impact on the overall campaign situation. 

Remember old sentence, fighter make movies, bombers make history. Thats why its so important.

Just check the stats m8.

 

About the tanks.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/22861-tactical-air-war-tanks-landing-troops/

 

Cheers!

 

p.s.

If the server have 64 slots, we would limit blue slots to 32-32. 

You think this is bad idea?

So flying 10 vs 40 is a good one ? :D

Let's P - 2 will make speed in 111. Not just limit all the planes and let them go red in the ass that the brain is not enough cover purpose. 111 Or do not shoot down planes ?

[I./JG1_Deschain]

 

p.s.

If the server have 64 slots, we would limit blue slots to 32-32. 

You think this is bad idea?

So flying 10 vs 40 is a good one ? :D

 

Well if there was 64 players all the time it would make sense, but imagine situation where are 20 reds on server and 32 blues. There would be 12 open slots, but pilots who would want to fly blue side couldnt join, and that would drive them away. We often fly as squad, but we dont have strict time code that we fly for example from 2000-2200 every night, so sooner or later we find ourselves in situation when half of our squad will be on TAW and rest wont be able to join, so we all leave to other server to fly together, and im afraid there will be lot of squads who will do the same. It would balance the server, yes, but by driving blue pilots away not by encouraging them to fly red, which is the way i believe you should go.

 

It is certainly difficult, but solution might be that formula distributing points based on difference between reds and blues, also slightly better positioned red targets so they are easily defended, so even though there will be less reds they will have good shot winning a mission/map/campaign.

 

Also it might be a bit premature to deal with slot balancing, i believe that if given some time, and tweaks to missions and server, sooner than later most players gets interested in TAW and there will be enough pilots on both sides.

 

PS: for me it doesnt matter, i have no problem flying one campaign as blue, next as red, but i believe most of our squad wouldnt be so open minded if i dared to suggest such a solution :D

Edited July 28, 2016 by I./JG1_Deschain

[=LG/F=Kathon]

Right now statistics work correctly only with 'air kills' after "next 25 records"  Something wrong.

We are changing this page, so sorting is not working correctly right now.

 

This is odd.  I am being given credit for 3 air kills for this sortie in the stats however I only shot down 2.  Log issue?

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=15274&name=12.OIAE_Stick-95

Double shot down is related with enemy disco bug in the script. 

 

My ping is 300ms, occasionally spikes to 315. Should be within acceptable limits?

 

Do I need to register somewhere to join the server? There aren't any instructions in the OP. (It might be a good idea to include this kind of critical information there)

The limit is 500ms now. If you want to create a squadron and add members to it you should register.

 

I also got a doubled kill. I landed a transport ju88 at shkolny, and just after I landed and turned the engines off, one lagg decided to strafe me, except he didnt pull up, he went straight into me, killing himself in the process. Somehow my pilot survived and I my gunners managed to hit him but I was awarded 2 kills when he went down.

This is strange. I will have to check it in the log files.

 

How do I resuply bos planes ? i ve just finished my 5 combat mission and didnt get any 

You started with 1x Bf 109 E7, then you lost one E7 and now you have one available E7. Is my math correct?

 

Salute,

 

only for report a error.

 

in this mission first stuka down coutn 2 times

 

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=15714&name=RedEye_Rasko

 

salute.

DISCO bug, will be fixed.

 

How many points do I get for shooting down the UFO?

Try to destroy simple truck first. 

[I./JG1_Deschain]

 

You started with 1x Bf 109 E7, then you lost one E7 and now you have one available E7. Is my math correct?

 

 

 

No troubles with BoM planes, im asking how to resuply BoS planes, when do i get f4 or fockewulf ?

[FTC_Riksen]

Srry for the noob question but what's the UFO? I thought u were refering to http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/pilot/1241/UFO*/?tour=12

 

[=LG=Wicher]

No troubles with BoM planes, im asking how to resuply BoS planes, when do i get f4 or fockewulf ?

 

For know your planes resuply randomly from all avaible but first resuplies the planes you have least.

So if u have

0 F-4

0 G-2

0 E-7

It will pick randomly from them and resuply, then you will have for example:

0 F-4

0 G-2

1 E-7

And next 5 combat mission will resuply F-4 or G-2.

 

We know that this solution is not very good, but Kathon is doing everything alone and didn't had time to make it better for now.

[I./JG1_Deschain]

For know your planes resuply randomly from all avaible but first resuplies the planes you have least.

So if u have

0 F-4

0 G-2

0 E-7

It will pick randomly from them and resuply, then you will have for example:

0 F-4

0 G-2

1 E-7

And next 5 combat mission will resuply F-4 or G-2.

 

We know that this solution is not very good, but Kathon is doing everything alone and didn't had time to make it better for now.

copy, thx for that

[F/JG300_Gruber]

If I see that average pilot can have 10-20 targets in Pe-2 and average He-111 driver can bring 20-40 or even 50+it means that something is not well balanced.

I just care about the impact on the overall campaign situation. 

Remember old sentence, fighter make movies, bombers make history. Thats why its so important.

Just check the stats m8.

 

By the time the 111 gets to 4k, releases his bombs and get back to base, the Pe2 pilot have enough time to make 2 to 3 low level blitz raids, so the number of target destroyed in the same timeframe will be roughly the same for both airplanes. No reason to ban SC1000 bombs to me, that would render the 111 really pointless to fly.

 

About limiting blue player numbers, if the server have 64 max players, maybe put a cap like 36-40 max per side. 32/32 sounds a bit limiting to me (but you have the server statistics, so this is your call), so you won't have a 50-10 imbalanced game anymore, but if a 35th player want to join on LW, he won't be left at the door either, and there will still be room for VVS pilots to join.

 

Aside from that, I agree with you on the cooperation and communications problems.

[302_Osh]

Limited slots for blue Luftwaffe pilots is a bad idea. But I think, if there is so many Luftwaffe fighter pilots, maybe you should force them to take bombers? Limmited fighters, even if they had posibility to fly them, coz advantage of the Luftwaffe on the server at the moment, when they choose planes is to huge?

[Monostripezebra]

I´ve flown late yesterday and for the first time actually seen more red player.. and some good teamwork on both sides.

unfortunatly I died colliding with the invisible part of a hangar..

 

But I still wonder if those "rotations" where there are only a few people are on and can destroy a lot relativly unmolested are not a bit "unhingeing" the results of the populated missions in the sense that "the war gets won by the lonely fliers in the afterhours"-sentiment.

 

In the end, the concept for an ongoing "online war" isn´t bad on TAW, but personally I must say, i liked the organized missions like on ZG26s server best, with a fixed time for all and one side attacking, one defending.. as i feel the many goals are on one hand necessary on a spawn-in-when-you-like-server, but a more "realistic" gameplay with the numbers we have is archieved when there is more concentration on one task with larger formations and different timed flights on more focused, interlocking tasks. I´m also not a huge fan of the "land to capture airfields" mechanics, but that is just my personal taste

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

By the time the 111 gets to 4k, releases his bombs and get back to base, the Pe2 pilot have enough time to make 2 to 3 low level blitz raids, so the number of target destroyed in the same timeframe will be roughly the same for both airplanes. No reason to ban SC1000 bombs to me, that would render the 111 really pointless to fly.

 

**snip**

 

Sorry but I respectfully have to disagree.  You are comparing apples and oranges.  Pilots in Pe-2s don't only make low level blitz attacks.  Level bombing flights have to be compared between He-111/Ju-88 vs Pe-2s.  They both have to get to about the same altitude, they both have to travel about the same distances and the flight times are about the same.  The difference is the Germans destroy twice as much as the VVS on such a run.

 

As far as low level blitz attacks I have seen almost all aircraft used, including Ju-88s.  Again, the Germans are destroying twice as much on these runs as the VVS.

 

The reason for the destruction imbalance is ordnance size.  Even with limiting German ordnance over 500kg bombs, the Germans will still retain an advantage over the VVS as their planes carry more bombs.  C'est la vie.

 

The next campaign should limit German aircraft ordnance to 500kg or less.  This may help in the overall "balance" issue.  Right now there is too much of an incentive to fly as a German bomber pilot vs VVS.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

The reason for the destruction imbalance is ordnance size

 

Looking at the stats on TAW right now, Axis have suffered more losses across all ground target categories.

If those German bombers are doing so incredibly well - why aren't the stats reflecting this?

 

Axis have destroyed less ground targets at a cost of 25% more planes.

 

Sure there are a few long surviving bomber pilots in the Top 5 chart but that's not going to win the war.

[NN_RugbyGoth]

In fact I believe balance is pretty good for now. Each side can win and it needs to gather and it happens. It will never be perfect of course.

 

For the cost in planes for the amount of ground target, perhaps it's because Ju87 is less hardened than Il2 and I believe there is a larger percentage of fighters on the blue team than in the red team...

[I./JG1_Deschain]

new possibilities with flyable ju-52 and BoM map for everyone...cheers :D 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Looking at the stats on TAW right now, Axis have suffered more losses across all ground target categories.

If those German bombers are doing so incredibly well - why aren't the stats reflecting this?

 

Axis have destroyed less ground targets at a cost of 25% more planes.

 

Sure there are a few long surviving bomber pilots in the Top 5 chart but that's not going to win the war.

 

Maybe because Germans fly fighters more often?  Maybe VVS fly more ground pounding sorties?  Whatever the reason it doesn't justify one side having twice as much destruction power with their ordnance as the other side.  If it was reversed I would say the same thing.

[I./JG1_Deschain]

Maybe because Germans fly fighters more often? Maybe VVS fly more ground pounding sorties? Whatever the reason it doesn't justify one side having twice as much destruction power with their ordnance as the other side. If it was reversed I would say the same thing.

its not an online game per say (like dota) where everything should be balanced, its simulator and while one side exceed at something, other was better in something else.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

its not an online game per say (like dota) where everything should be balanced, its simulator and while one side exceed at something, other was better in something else.

Understood, been around a little bit.  As stated above even with the limitations on ordnance, the Germans would retain an edge as their aircraft on average carry more bombs.

[ACG_pezman]

I am looking for Western Hemisphere VVS squads who would be willing to work on inter-squadron cooperation and coordination for TAW.  We are starting our attacks tonight at 8:00PM Eastern US time.  If there are any other VVS squadrons looking for escorts or bombers please PM me so we can start coordinating the Western Hemisphere response on TAW.

 

Incase someone is wondering (which I doubt) I'm looking for Northern, Central, and Southern American VVS squads.  Axis, your welcome to attempt to oppose us.  I will also be looking for any VVS squadrons that would like to coordinate days and times for attacks.  Lets make it to where we always have a squad on duty.

 

S!

[Willy__]

Level bombing flights have to be compared between He-111/Ju-88 vs Pe-2s.  They both have to get to about the same altitude, they both have to travel about the same distances and the flight times are about the same.

 

Yep, they fly roughly the same distances, but the 111 is way way slower, with worse defensive armament. The Pe2 got its speed and its superb gunner, the 111 has its big bombs, and it is already forbidden to take the SC1800/2000/2500 (the bigger ones). Each with its strenghts.

 

If in the next campaign the 111 is forbidden to carry its 1000kg bombs I'll simply not fly it anymore because I can carry 500s on the 110 or 190 and I'm sure a lot of people would do the same.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Herr_Istruba

[FTC_Riksen]

LuftGangsta team ... please check PM. I've sent the link of our squadron skins to be placed under the Skin section of TAW's website. Thank you for this amazing campaign!

 

Cheers

[Fern]

Holy crap, lots of people playing now. 27 vs 25 and I'm at work.

 

Despite all the suggestions and criticism, you guys are doing a good job on the server!

[HR_Tumu]

sry if i missing something,

 

Kakthon, what we need do for upload skins

 

great idea

 

thx

[Ace_Pilto]

The limit is 500ms now. If you want to create a squadron and add members to it you should register.

 

 

Okay, progress... I was wondering if my posts were invisible or something.

 

Thx Kathon, so how do I register and where should I register? Do I need to create a squadron? I'd be happy just to tag along on whatever side needs pilots. (Which will be the Russian side I'm guessing...)

 

Would the server kick me for not being registered?

[StG77_Kondor]

Understood, been around a little bit.  As stated above even with the limitations on ordnance, the Germans would retain an edge as their aircraft on average carry more bombs.

 

And the VVS retains an edge in Stuka vs. IL-2, Yak vs 109G2, etc etc etc. Regarding the Il-2, not only in destructive capability, but survivability and combat effectiveness. A stuka with it's usual load out of 1000kgs of bombs, drops the bombs on target, then leaves. Strafing anything but vehicles or other soft targets with the 7.92mm's is a waste of time. Even then, you are extremely vulnerable to flak and fighters. Whereas, an IL-2 with it's full compliment of (less) bombs, but with rockets, AND effective cannons against even light armored vehicles is a killing machine. 

 

If we're going to neuter German bombing capacity, then I'd like Yaks to fly at only 85% manifold pressure in order to have fair fights with the ata limited 109G-2. .

 

In all seriousness, the stats bear out the information. Would be interesting to see what happens with them if these bombs are allowed. Worth a shot considering this server is still evolving. 

[FTC_daHeld]

CU, too. guys.

 

Have fun!

[Antiguo]

The real war is unbalanced, a balance of players are wasting time.

 

HE111 limit armament is a mistake, if the Germans got that technological leap in weapons seems very unpleasant limit. ..... (And still they lost the war.)

 

because the Russians won the war?

...... They asked the Germans to limit their weapons or forces?

 

If we want realism play with all the weapons available, we use tactics ....

If we want to balance and limit armaments that's not realistic.

 

I want to fly on any side without limits at all, with all the available arsenal.

 

Now I'm flying german possibly be the next Russian, if I want to win, but with honor, not win because the other guys have limited their weapons ...

 

To mourn I go to church .....

 

regards

 

 

The same thing in Spanish

 

:La guerra real no es equilibrada ,buscar un equilibrio de jugadores es perder el tiempo .

 

Limitar el armamento del HE111 es un error , si los alemanes dieron ese salto tecnologico en el armamento me parece muy desagradable limitarlo . .....(y  aun asi ellos perdieron la guerra .)

 

porque los rusos ganaron la guerra ? 

...... le  pidieron a los alemanes limitar su armamento , o sus fuerzas?  

 

Si queremos realismo juguemos con todo el armamento disponible , usemos tacticas ....

Si queremos equilibrio y limitar armamentos eso no es realista . 

 

Yo quiero volar en cualquier bando sin limites de nada , con todo el arsenal disponible .

 

Ahora estoy volando de aleman , posiblemente la siguiente sera de ruso , quiero ganar si , pero con honor , no ganar porque a los del otro bando les han limitado el armamento ...

 

Para llorar me voy a la iglesia .....

 

saludos 

[GridiroN]

My only issue with the server, seeing as everyone has randomly ditched WoL for it is that there is no navigation marker on the map. Yes yes, blah blah, realistic navigation, blah blah blah, but I find it slows down gameplay a lot. Jumping into a game is a much bigger commitment in time and energy when I wanna get some flight hours in. 

[Fern]

Nah Gridiron. Just plan prior to take off for your heading and then navigate accordingly using landmarks. You could always get on comms with someone and make them do all the navigating...thanks dendro. He got shotdown over target today so I had to navigate back on my own bloodied with both engines damaged. Made for an exciting return flight.

[FTC_Riksen]

Huh guys.... it seems the server is bugged somehow. The current mission has been going for over 4 hs now and it is not changing ...

[=AVG77=FenderbirdX]

Yeah the server went on for 6 hours 25. And then went down. If this was a planned restart of the server a little heads up b4 hand is always nice.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The real war is unbalanced, a balance of players are wasting time.

 

HE111 limit armament is a mistake, if the Germans got that technological leap in weapons seems very unpleasant limit. ..... (And still they lost the war.)

 

because the Russians won the war?

...... They asked the Germans to limit their weapons or forces?

 

If we want realism play with all the weapons available, we use tactics ....

If we want to balance and limit armaments that's not realistic.

 

 

Why limiting is not realistic and historical accurate?

 

How many 1 ton bombs were droped by He111 and Stukas in that place and period of war?

 

What was proportion of fighters,bombers regardig Germans vs VVS at that period of war?

 

War outcom could differ but initial condition at some degree shuld be reliable. It's only game ofcurse and all side shuld have fun in participate. If necessary devoting some to game balance too if there is not better solution.

Edited July 29, 2016 by 307_Tomcat

[I./JG1_Deschain]

My only issue with the server, seeing as everyone has randomly ditched WoL for it is that there is no navigation marker on the map. Yes yes, blah blah, realistic navigation, blah blah blah, but I find it slows down gameplay a lot. Jumping into a game is a much bigger commitment in time and energy when I wanna get some flight hours in. 

 

"randomly ditched WoL" maybe because WoL feels like playing arcade ? TAW is way flight sim should be played, WoL is arcadish meatgrinder where doesnt matter if you shoot a plane and bail out after to not screw your stats

Edited July 29, 2016 by I./JG1_Deschain

[JG700_Rammjager]

 

1. AAA is too weak on the targets. Even single or two-ship formation can cause serious damage to the column.

2. The front line is stucked. Only side with numerous advantage can push it which is sensless. 

3. There is too much ground objects on the map. Gameplay is static. War logic has to be changed.

4. We need to limit the blue slots in the server due to inbalance.

5. We cant set different planeset for BoM and BoS users... Basic planes will be choosen from BoS.

6. Why only blue bombers are on the top 5 ??? Why only 1 red team is in top 5 bomber teams ??? He-111 2xSC1000 has to be limited. Pe-2 is just better, more agile and flexible in use compare to Heinkel, but SC1000 earthquaking bomb is just giving too big boost which was proven in the stats.

7. Unliimted IL-2 is giving red side domination in low level combats. Durable, heavy armed, agile in jinks. Even Bf-110 cant compete with them. IL-2 will stay in planeset for sure but not with old ADW style.

 

Sugestion after last tour.

Ad. 1 

Some ace level AAA is needed over airfield. About column - do what You think is better. I do not atack ground targets.

Ad. 2

I do not think that front line is moving only when one side had an advantage in numbers. Reds manage to win one map beeing constantly outnumbered.

Ad. 3

Two column on each side (tanks + conwoy) + def. line + warehouses is too much ?? For me (as I trying to protect own ground forces) is too much, cuz I can be only one place in time  . Reduce number of ground forces will be nice for me  - one place to cover, but for ground atackers  ...

Ad. 4

After a month flying reduce a slots in not a good idea. I would increase slots to 84 instead 64. Few times I had to wait till somebody leave to enter the server. You will never get "fair" balance in numbers. Dedicated red or blue pilots won't change a side. If they can't enter a server - they will leave. Simple. 

Solution is a point system, which had a x factor when outnumbered (2x, 3 x, 4x or more ...) Pilot which will have more points will be higher in stats in the same numbers of ak or gk.

Ad. 5 and 7

Why You set unlimited Ju-87 and Il-2 ? It was spoken about G2 and ŁaGG.

Ad. 6

Bombming is not my buisness, so I stay quiet in this matter

 

Do something about one thing. Loosing airplanes during one mission.

For example.

At begining I have 2 Fw190. In one mission (105 min) I can fly 190 all the time, even if I get shoot down 8 or more times.

In next mission I get minus planes - so what ? No penalty for flying 6 times planes which should do not exist.

 

Ramm.

Edited July 29, 2016 by JG700_Rammjager

[E69_geramos109]

Why russian columns have german motoriced units with 20mm flack? What happens? Did not russians have any motoriced gun?? whats the matter, both sides has advantages and disadvantages. German side has no IL2 and i cant see you give them IL2 to balance as with the flack.

 

Please. Use correct objects and put no limitations on armament!

 

Soon we will have a yak1b for russians and what is the plane to balance in german side?? G2 1.42? Correct Fm on 190?? No, only an usefull ju52....

Edited July 29, 2016 by farineli

[ACG_pezman]

Why russian columns have german motoriced units with 20mm flack? What happens? Did not russians have any motoriced gun?? whats the matter, both sides has advantages and disadvantages. German side has no IL2 and i cant see you give them IL2 to balance as with the flack.

 

Please. Use correct objects and put no limitations on armament!

 

Soon we will have a yak1b for russians and what is the plane to balance in german side?? G2 1.42? Correct Fm on 190?? No, only an usefull ju52....

 

Why is it so hard for people to be satisfied with this game?

[FTC_Riksen]

I dont think his post had anything directly related to the game per se but the way ground objects are disposed in the server. Honestly, I agree with him ... we need to stop this "we need to balance" attitude. This is a war simulator and both sides were constantly trying to get the edge by creating better equipment then the enemy so leave it as is ... Pretty sure geramos is well satisfied with the game

Edited July 29, 2016 by JAGER_Riksen

[Blakhart]

About AAA.

 

Russian machine gun on a truck is causing small damage, 37mm is usually a instant kill.

There is no 25mm soviet AAA so we used a german one to give the people more chance to survive a ground attack and then even damaged, drag half-burning wreck to own lines.

 

Its really so hard to conclude that? :D

 

Geramos using "!" is a bad way of debating.

 

Cheers!

[Ace_Pilto]

So, anyway, how do I register?

 

P.S. please don't (((((((((BALANS)))))))))) the server whatever you do! Make it as historically accurate as possible and give the game some credit. War is brutal and unfair, balance is for people who can't handle losing and need an artificial, ego boosting "game mechanic" to compensate for their lack of skill, grit and intelligence.

[III./JG1_Loch]

to register use web taw.stg2.de, there is register account in upper right corner. Register whole your name as you use it ingame, with squad tag too (when you playing as it is shown in game rosters and chats etc).

[CCG_bexhausted]

Hello ! 

Yesterday 4 Il2 attacked a column north of Safrenov. 

Did the two I16 who took off and landed with us at Safrenov help against 109 ?

If so, thank you very much guys : 3 of us landed safely.

Cheers