Tactical Air War

[Operatsiya_Ivy]

Anyone can remember a map decided by pilots lost in the recent past?....

[BlackHellHound1]

18 minutes ago, Operation_Ivy said:

Anyone can remember a map decided by pilots lost in the recent past?....

 

The very last map of this campaign. There have been many. I do not remember them all.

 

BlackHellHound1

 

:salute:

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

12 minutes ago, BlackHellHound1 said:

 

The very last map of this campaign. There have been many. I do not remember them all.

 

BlackHellHound1

 

Most were running out of Planes, not Pilots. Pilots were actually still OK on all Maps the Russians won. When the Russians won it was pretty  much always the Germans not having Planes anymore. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[Carl_infar]

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

Most were running out of Planes, not Pilots. Pilots were actually still OK on all Maps the Russians won. When the Russians won it was pretty  much always the Germans not having Planes anymore. 

Except the last map of last campaign where due to ship convoys the number of planes was increased up to more than 1600planes and was not reached. Unfortunately the blue side run out of pilots first.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Carl_infar

[HR_Tumu]

Hello.

 

On TAW , kill chutes not is forbiden . Have sense cause number pilots is a option for win. Maybe on next campaing we can have a top 5 for chute killers.... hehehhehe

Other option is simple, forbide chute kill, remove number pilots . All chute kill drama ended. Other option is made a question to community via poll.

 

I no have problem, i dont like be killed on parachute and my rule is simple, dont kill other players on chute. But the point mandatory are general rules. Rules are rules, if any one kill me on parachute... i hope he enjoy it and nothing more to do.

 

 

[HenHawk]

Congrats to all the top steak holders!  Very impressive Enkas and ROSS_BW_Kuznechik, I wish I had the patience and self-restraint to ever hold an iron streak like you did!

 

 

[Enkas]

5 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

Congrats to all the top steak holders!  Very impressive Enkas and ROSS_BW_Kuznechik, I wish I had the patience and self-restraint to ever hold an iron streak like you did!

 

 

 

Thanks you, fortunately no one can use custom skins in bos .... so nobody can recognize me .... and shoot me down 

Enkas 

[56RAF_Roblex]

8 hours ago, II./JG77_Con said:

Old school virtual pilots had rules in  il-2-1946 campaigns if you shoot pilots in chute you were banned also team killing and kill steals was not tolerated ,if you lay the rules down then it wont happen as much and if it does then its a BAN.

 

You are forgetting one thing,  We *do* have rules in TAW and those rules say 'Chute Killing Is Permitted'      Laying down the rules and banning people for not following the rules will not help stop chute killing  :-)

 

I hasten to add that I *don't* chute kill but that is just a personal preference. Perhaps if I shot down someone that had just chute killed a colleague or had strafed them after they crash landed then I might decide to do it.  I suspect that happened in real life too.

[AKA_Relent]

On 3/3/2018 at 10:56 AM, AKA_Relent said:

Regarding chute shooting, this would probably work itself out if the "finish flight" delay was reduced from 15 seconds down to 5 seconds or something similar.

 

More a question for LG - why was the finish flight/respawn delay set so high in the first place?  It seems that forcing a player who bailed out, ditched or landed to wait 15 seconds before they can choose another aircraft is a bit excessive.   If the original idea was to prevent players from jumping back into a plane and into the air too quickly, it seems the "cold start" introduced this last round has forced a delay for everyone to get into the air.  Thus, that aspect of the "finish flight" delay may not be necessary - but leaving it long does seem to tempt some players into using that time to shoot chutes.

 

Just a suggestion...  Oh, and thanks again LG for all your effort in putting this campaign together, it's always a lot of fun and a great challenge.

 

Quoting myself here, LOL, but wouldn’t chute shooting be a non issue if the admins would just reduce the finish flight delay from 15 seconds down to 5 or less? Once the flight is finished and the log and stats are updated, shooting the chute/pilot wouldn’t count, correct?

 

Seems like a much simpler solution than changing the winning conditions, changing chute shooting rules, and having this issue continue to be a point of contention and obvious distaste to many who participate in TAW or any online flying event/server.

[JG7_X-Man]

On 3/6/2018 at 7:16 AM, 19//curiousGamblerr said:

 

This is what frustrates me most about the anti chute shooting crowd. 

 

You get all upset over over the "dishonor" of having your digital pilot shot in a freakin' war game, and then come online and calm the REAL pilot an asshole. Ooooh so chivalrous, much honor.

 

This community makes a joke of itself every time the topic comes up.

 

 I agree - It's a game! If anyone feels I made them upset enough to the point where they feel like taking out my virtual avatar pilot on a parachute will make them feel better - my mission is accomplished 

Edited March 8, 2018 by JG7_X_Man

[Cpt_Siddy]

 

 

[kileab]

18 hours ago, RedEye_Tumu said:

Hello.

 

On TAW , kill chutes not is forbiden . Have sense cause number pilots is a option for win. Maybe on next campaing we can have a top 5 for chute killers.... hehehhehe

Other option is simple, forbide chute kill, remove number pilots . All chute kill drama ended. Other option is made a question to community via poll.

 

I no have problem, i dont like be killed on parachute and my rule is simple, dont kill other players on chute. But the point mandatory are general rules. Rules are rules, if any one kill me on parachute... i hope he enjoy it and nothing more to do.

 

 

 

There is already a poll and you already participated  : 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by -IRRE-Biluf

[HR_Tumu]

yes IRRE 

 

whit all respects.... "official " poll..., admins ask to users.... polls betwen users seems no have effect for admins.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by RedEye_Tumu

[Cpt_Siddy]

Pilots are a victory condition. 

 

Achieving victory with other conditions is hard with your average  50:30 numbers you see most of the time on server. (Yes, you can argue this, but take a look of last TAW graphs, it was even worse now)

 

Ergo, you strive towards the victory conditions that are achievable for you ---> go for the planes. If planes are replenished too often, second best thing is to go after pilots, this quantity is not replenished. 

 

This fact alone not only justifies chute shooting, but NECESSITATES it under certain conditions. And mind you, pilot kill victory condition is not easy, but if other conditions are off the table, it becomes the ONLY condition. 

 

So your "honor" argument, write it on a paper, roll it up neatly, use Vaseline liberally and shove it up your exhaust. 

[HR_Eldamar]

On 7/3/2018 at 1:42 PM, RedEye_Tumu said:

Hello.

 

On TAW , kill chutes not is forbiden . Have sense cause number pilots is a option for win. Maybe on next campaing we can have a top 5 for chute killers.... hehehhehe

Other option is simple, forbide chute kill, remove number pilots . All chute kill drama ended. Other option is made a question to community via poll.

 

I no have problem, i dont like be killed on parachute and my rule is simple, dont kill other players on chute. But the point mandatory are general rules. Rules are rules, if any one kill me on parachute... i hope he enjoy it and nothing more to do.

 

 

Estoy con tigo

Y enhorabuena por el diploma   

[HR_Eldamar]

I still do not know where you get the data about that supposed mass murder of pilots in the parachute, apart from the rather partial opinion of some pilots

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

5 hours ago, -IRRE-Biluf said:

 

There is already a poll and you already participated  : 

 

 

Thanks -IRRE-Biluf. I did not know that this issue had already been surveyed, and it was already clear what was the opinion and the majority of the community. 70% NO 29% YES Lighter water.

 

Although this is a game, for me a simulator there are pilots who strive to stay LIVE, for their statistics and because one of the premises of the rules and is what is most punished in time and losing all your work to keep you alive, because you have to kill a helpless virtual pilot and you can not do anything. It generates impotence and sends the server to shit.

 

I think that when the cooperative missions mode and the pilot career mode arrive, many servers will be empty. This decision of the admin impoverishes the quality of the TAW server.

[Cpt_Siddy]

Just for the sake of "realism" argument. 

 

Do any of you really think either side would shed a tear, or lift a finger if someone among their ranks actively pursued chute kills? 

 

Mind you, one side held other side in utter contempt as a undermench, humans just barely worth to keep alive as slaves in the future development of acquired lebensraum and no doubht disposed at a later date. At the earliest convenience of the Reich, no doubt.

And the other side was literally fighting for the survival of their fledgling state that had barely existed for two decades, just freed form the land slavery under tsar of oppressive, undemocratic Russian empire. 

 

I doubt you found lots of sympathy for the devils from either side of the aisle.

 

/edit, just to add insult to injury, perhaps we should indeed ban the chute killing by the Axis side. Seeing as they lost the war and got "Gutenberged" and won single-rope-swing tickets at the following carnival, we should act up on that reality and forbid axis from committing the horrible war crimes. Rational is that Soviets won the war and all the soviet misbehavior would have been swiped under the rug regardless. 

Or perhaps, if we want to be EVEN MORE realistic, ban the offending axis players from playing the next round as axis: if you chute kill as an axis, you are doomed to play next game for the reds!  

Edited March 8, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy

[HenHawk]

Both sides of this “chute killing” debate have gotten just silly. If you’re trying to make the claim it wins maps, it doesn’t, you’re just finding an excuse to be an unsportsmanlike jerk. If a map is won by pilot kills, the few people that are shot before clicking out in 15 secs didn’t tip things, it’s never that close.

 

If you’re trying to make the argument it’s a “war crime”, or at least a a simulation of one, you sound just as ridiculous. I’m not going to get into how this is a video game, or even how historically Germany and Russia never signed accords between each other about what constituted a war crime. In the end, it’s clear that you are just making a weak argument because you don’t like being shot in your chute, are frustrated, and can’t find a better reason to have a server ban something that the game mechanics allow.

 

Disclaimer: There is a very small handful of flyers on TAW that if I’m pretty sure they are dangling in a chute in front of me, I will light them up. They made that short list by doing it to me repeatedly. Never did it in prior to TAW, but that doesn’t matter much.

 

For the most part, though, I happily fly past chutes of downed enemies all the time, considering the fight done and checking my 6. I think in the end TAW is a mix of many different cultures, which is great, but our idea of sportsmanship clearly differs. 

 

Respect it’s part of the game, times and attitudes have changed from early flight sim days, and if you get your kicks by being an online jerk, by all means have some fun with chutes. Just don’t forgot what you did when you find others targeting you or not wanting to fly on your wing/clear your 6, because it’s clear what type of general player, or maybe even person, you are.

[Cpt_Siddy]

9 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

Both sides of this “chute killing” debate have gotten just silly. If you’re trying to make the claim it wins maps, it doesn’t, you’re just finding an excuse to be an unsportsmanlike jerk. If a map is won by pilot kills, the few people that are shot before clicking out in 15 secs didn’t tip things, it’s never that close.

 

 

 

 

Last map was literally won by a hairs breath by pilots before axis got the fields. 

And yes, general mentality of last day in the TAW ts on the red side was to shoot it until its splattered on the ground, anything that pops out, kill it. 

One map rotation alone we scored 20 confirmed chute kills by the Russian TS participants. That was when axis had ~80 left.

 

That was when the scrip decided to up the plane count by another 200 or so, so it was literally only way to win the map before the axis would have pushed our fields.

 

So it do matter. 

 

And no, we did not do it to be jerks, tho we were salty by the constant US tz unopposed pushing of our fields. We did it to win a map, if it would have not been a win condition, i doubt many of us would have been arsed to risk his neck for a chance to shoot at the chute. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy

[HR_Eldamar]

look at the statistics.
http://taw.stg2.de/missions.php
in the mission 459 was the one that more blue pilots died in the last day and they were 29, you want to tell me that of those 29, 20 died in the parachute?
Sorry but mem seems pretty dusky

[Cpt_Siddy]

12 minutes ago, HR_Eldamar said:

in the mission 459 was the one that more blue pilots died in the last day and they were 29, you want to tell me that of those 29, 20 died in the parachute?
Sorry but mem seems pretty dusky

 

I don't know, possibility exist as literally whole Russian ts was thirsting for blood and blood accessories on the final day. 

Perhaps i should have used confirmed kills instead of chute kills as not all were chute kills, but the sentiment was that "crash the plane, with no survivors".

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Cpt_Siddy

[HenHawk]

16 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

I don't know, possibility exist as literally whole Russian ts was thirsting for blood and blood accessories on the final day. 

Perhaps i should have used confirmed kills instead of chute kills as not all were chute kills, but the sentiment was that "crash the plane, with no survivors".

 

 

 

 

Red didn’t win that map or any other by shooting chutes. There was a gap between pilot kills way before that last mission, and there is no way Reds killed 20 people in chutes in one mission in any case. You said it several times yourself. You were “blood thirsty” and “salty” your airfields were shutdown. So you took your online anger out by doing something in a game you knew would piss off Blue, which is pretty much the definition of unsportsmanlike behavior. Sounds like you tried to justify it all by hiding behind pilot kills being a winning criteria, but that was decided long ago and most pilot deaths I almost guarantee were from ground fire.

[Cpt_Siddy]

We literally made a point to accelerate that "gap" on last few days because after the plane additions and constant superior numbers, it was clear to us all on the red team that it was our only hope.

 

Seriously, why you keep arguing the UNDENIABLE point that axis lost by losing all pilots, when reds had 2 active fields left. 

[HenHawk]

27 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

We literally made a point to accelerate that "gap" on last few days because after the plane additions and constant superior numbers, it was clear to us all on the red team that it was our only hope.

 

Seriously, why you keep arguing the UNDENIABLE point that axis lost by losing all pilots, when reds had 2 active fields left. 

 

LW still needed 247 pilot kills, 357 planes, or to shutdown/capture 2-3 more airfields by time map finished. Red coordinated efforts to just do fighter screens and down Blue planes is what won the map, not messily number of pilot deaths from people that couldn’t click out in time. There was no way Blue was winning that map, it was inevitable after the push to shutdown all the fields stalled. But you can keep convincing yourself it made a difference and didn’t have anything to do with that little thrill you got from pissing someone off. Your argument just sounds ridiculous to the rest of us, which is my original point. You’re not fooling anyone, we know why you do it, stop pretending it’s for any other reason. Rules support your unsportsmanlike behavior, so why try to cover it up?

Edited March 8, 2018 by HenHawk

[Cpt_Siddy]

>we totally did not lost because we ran out of pilots it was the fighter screen that kept killing our pilots so we ran out of pilots but totally didint lose because we ran out of pilots.

 

Henny, please...

[HenHawk]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

>we totally did not lost because we ran out of pilots it was the fighter screen that kept killing our pilots so we ran out of pilots but totally didint lose because we ran out of pilots.

 

Henny, please...

I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say. Of course Blue lost the map on pilot kills. Reds all took up fighters and downed planes, Blue kept attacking useless tank columns and got pk’d by flak. A handful of Blue were killed in chutes. Takeout the chute kills, Blue would have still lost on pilot kills. My point is not that pilot kills aren’t a deciding factor, chute killing is what I’m saying is not a deciding factor. So if it’s not a deciding factor, then why pretend you do it for any reason than to just piss someone off? Having a pilot out of action for 5 mins would be a better argument. The fact that is barely made tells me again you’re main reason is [edited]

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

Edited March 8, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin

[Cpt_Siddy]

>blue lost to the map due to pilot kills but the extra effort red team put in accelerating pilot loss played no role

 

This is your argument. 

 

My argument is, it did. We took more risks to secure the pilot kill. We considered that even 1 for 1 trade in pilots is a win at that point. 

Personally, i did not bother with chutes or taking the extra effort to down a plane after i smoked it. It is a move that put you at risk for retaliation... Not  before the final squeeze in last few days anyhow, when it became clear that only realistic goal was to kill off pilots.

 

[edited]

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

Edited March 8, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin

[HenHawk]

No worries, Sid, keep flaming chutes, I don’t care. I’ll just add you to my short list and will flame yours when you go down. I’ll be doing it just to piss you off, I won’t be doing it to pretend it might help win the map or some other weak argument.

 

And I hope the other side of this topic stops arguing it’s a “war crime” and some other nonsense. This whole debate is so old and boring.

Edited March 8, 2018 by HenHawk

[Cpt_Siddy]

Henny, i dont farm stats, i push objectives, cover ground pounders and play to win.

 

If you want to put yourself in a position where an passing by IL2 can shoot you [edited] off just to get my chute, go ahead :^) 

 

Just a note, ive manged to kill maybe 4 chutes in this whole campaign, all on the last map. I fly in VR, and it is impossibly hard to even aim at the tiny pixel that is supposed to be a pilot. It requires me to slow my speed and steady my flight and expose myself. If you seriously think that i have been doing this for other reason than dire necessity, you are indeed more hen than a hawk, perhaps as bad as 95:5 ratio.

[JGr8_AzzoT]

Сan we expect a historical planeset or is the server running along the "balance" line? The appearance on the front of the aircraft in accordance with the dates of their first combat use - in the latest edition of the description of the aircraft, these dates have finally added:

 

[curiousGamblerr]

3 hours ago, 1/JSpan_Guerrero said:

 

Thanks -IRRE-Biluf. I did not know that this issue had already been surveyed, and it was already clear what was the opinion and the majority of the community. 70% NO 29% YES Lighter water.

 

Go read up on statistics and accurate polling and get back to us when you realize how utterly pointless the results of that poll are.

Edited March 8, 2018 by 19//curiousGamblerr

[StG77_Kondor]

On 8/3/2018 at 1:35 PM, Cpt_Siddy said:

Just for the sake of "realism" argument. 

 

Do any of you really think either side would shed a tear, or lift a finger if someone among their ranks actively pursued chute kills? 

 

Mind you, one side held other side in utter contempt as a undermench, humans just barely worth to keep alive as slaves in the future development of acquired lebensraum and no doubht disposed at a later date. At the earliest convenience of the Reich, no doubt.

And the other side was literally fighting for the survival of their fledgling state that had barely existed for two decades, just freed form the land slavery under tsar of oppressive, undemocratic Russian empire. 

 

I doubt you found lots of sympathy for the devils from either side of the aisle.

It's a video game mate. [edited]

Edited March 9, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin

[Willy__]

Honestly, I think shooting chutes just for winning is worse than shooting with the intent of being a dick....

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

I suppose I'm a little confused as to why we're still having an argument based on anecdotal evidence. And, anecdotal evidence that is sketchy at best. If I were making such a stink about something I would want to make sure that I'm absolutely certain that what I'm seeing is actually what is happening.

[[TWB]dillon_biz]

2 hours ago, Staiger said:

Honestly, I think shooting chutes just for winning is worse than shooting with the intent of being a dick....

 

It's right up there with Alt+F4ing your way out of a bad situation.

[curiousGamblerr]

4 minutes ago, [TWB]dillon_biz said:

 

It's right up there with Alt+F4ing your way out of a bad situation.

 

Just so nobody misses the joke, its funny because Staiger is the ultimate disco queen

 

 

[Willy__]

LOL I aint even said any names and you guys go personal, grow up.

 

If alt+f4 gets you that much, ill do it everytime i know its you, I dont mind 

[7.GShAP/Silas]

What a bunch of babies crying about being killed in a wargame, usually directly after exterminating some number of little digital lives themselves.  It's an interesting set of mental gymnastics to make yourself a victim after adding up all those sweet kills to your streak.  And of course all talk of e-honor and sportsmanship stops when it's 50 Axis vs. 20 VVS.

 

I've practically never not been shot in my chute or strafed on the ground in all my time flying BOS since early access, so I don't know where everyone has been hiding that this shocks them.  I recently had a 109 pilot cannon my limp dead body on the ground so intently that he flew into trees and killed himself.  I also recently had a carousel of ~5 aircraft circle my crashed aircraft and take turns strafing me.  I even had an AI crewed 88 shoot me dead directly as I descended in my chute.  C'est la guerrejeu.  I guess the AI understands that someone can't bomb a bunch of people and then cry when they aren't given the red carpet treatment.

 

P.S. For your information, propellers don't work on chutes, you just clip through: 

[[TWB]dillon_biz]

12 minutes ago, Staiger said:

LOL I aint even said any names and you guys go personal, grow up.

 

If alt+f4 gets you that much, ill do it everytime i know its you, I dont mind 

 

Well when you make a claim that shooting a chute to win is worse than doing it to be a dick, I have a mirror to show you.  

 

Because Alt+F4ing after you get into a bad situation is the same exact thing. 

 

 

The only difference is that you're peacing out just so the other guy doesn't get the kill.

 

As you said, grow up.

Edited March 8, 2018 by [TWB]dillon_biz