Tactical Air War

[StG77_Kondor]

26 minutes ago, LuSi_6 said:

So...? What does it mean? Sorry, I don't play on a regular basis.

When does the next campaing start?

 

That no more TAW until they decide to start the next campaign. It could be weeks, or several months, just wait and see. 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

On 26/2/2018 at 11:14 PM, StG77_Kondor said:

I thought people wanted realism? 

A scenario with only  I-16, P-40E, Bf 109 E-7 and MC 202 as the only fighter types isn't realistic though, it's there to have some love given to these planes.

1 hour ago, StG77_Kondor said:

Already looking forward to the next campaign to use the 23mm anti-tank gun of God.

Me personally ended up preferring the 37mm or rockets because often there is turbulence, crosswinds or the tanks are inside a forest which decreases the effectiveness of the 23mm, you need a 1-2 sec burst in the target to take it out in one pass, and it gets a bit complicated in those circumstances.

[Cpt_Siddy]

3 hours ago, StG77_HvB said:

 

The two rounds of the game was won by the server instability, you literally fly yourself to death, and best thing you can do is questing my flight style?

 

Well, i am sorry but sometimes, to win a map, you must come down from 11km. And down in the dirt, things get sometimes hairy. 

 

As far as i am concerned , this round was red victory by the sheer fact that we managed to do this well with numerical disadvantage compounded by server crash cascades that won axis few maps. 

You really need to up your game. 

[Guest deleted@103832]

Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

And down in the dirt, things get sometimes hairy. 

Thanks man, I had no idea.

 

1 minute ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

You really need to up your game. 

I'll try.

[Tuesday]

4 hours ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Well, i am sorry but sometimes, to win a map, you must come down from 11km. And down in the dirt, things get sometimes hairy.

You really need to up your game. 

Uh, clearly you have no idea what you're talking about or to whom you're speaking...

Take two seconds and look at what StG77 did this campaign (like they do every campaign) - I'm pretty confident they certainly know better about being down in the dirt than you do.

Good campaign as always, but I'll be happy when the WoL-suicidal-dogfight players adapt and change their ways.

Edited March 3, 2018 by 19//Tuesday

[Cpt_Siddy]

2 hours ago, 19//Tuesday said:

Uh, clearly you have no idea what you're talking about or to whom you're speaking...

Take two seconds and look at what StG77 did this campaign (like they do every campaign) - I'm pretty confident they certainly know better about being down in the dirt than you do.

Good campaign as always, but I'll be happy when the WoL-suicidal-dogfight players adapt and change their ways.

 

I am not talking about any one group in particular, but as the general team in average. 

[beepee]

Thanks for the campaign TAW team !

 

[Carl_infar]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

I am not talking about any one group in particular, but as the general team in average. 

As per my experience flying taw i noticed following:
German team has and should have no problems with "ground moving"  ( due to superior loadouts of their planes )- the problem is more on players side but I'll get back to it later.
Lets look at the facts:
-in all 8 maps the front line was pushed more to the east than to the west.
-all maps which germans won (4) were due to conquering the territory
-all maps which russians won were due to attrition (in those maps the front line was pretty close to the eastern side and only the blue attrition saved the red side)

-in first 12 top scoring ground pounders there are no russians
-in  first 20 top scoring ground pounders there are 5 russians
-in first 50 top scoring ground pounders there are 19 russians
-the first 2 top scoring german ground pounders have roughly same amount of ground kills as first 7 russian top scoring ground pounders
- the first 10 top scoring german ground pounders have together roughly same amount of kills as first 32 top scoring russian groud pounders.

- in first 10 top scoring fighters there are  only 3 germans
- in first 20 to scoring fighters there are 8 germans
- in first 50 top scoring fighters there are 21 germans
- in first 100 top scoring fighters there are 38 germans

-according to my experience there was no problem with aaa (at least this taw - in previous i've flown red side so cant compare), i've lost much less planes to aaa than while flying the red side (something like 9 loses in 200 + sorties out of which something like 150 were diving attacks , with 90% of the loses while me doing stupid things and departing from usual attack tactic or running accidently low level into random flak emplacement) - basing on my experience i'dont find the red aaa superior to blue one.
-during my flying i've seen many poorly executed attack runs on blue side -many people tend to dive in straight line into the barrels of aaa guns and are suprised when they are shoot down...
-i've noticed that during my presence on the server roughly minimum of 60% of blue side players flying within one mission dont get any air or ground kills during the whole 2 hours (for red side i've noticed it was nearer to 30%) and i was wondering what were they doing the whole time, while at the same moment, the blue attacker requests for cap or cover were in 7 out of 10 cases left without reply...
- if the overcast cloud base was present below 3000m, i cant remember even one instance when  blue fighters would be willing to cover the target which was placed on red territory...

So my personal opinion is:
1) the blue side seams to attrack more new pilots who are still learning than the red side
2) the blue side seams to play 2 games - attackers go bravely and push the frontline while most (for sure not all) of the fighters has the taw campaign goals and the attackers fate in the bottom part of their backs and offer very little support (except of course some pilots who were always willing to help)

3) if the blue fighters would care more for the blue bombers and attackers the blue side would be unstoppable 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Carl_infar

[HR_Tofolo]

Keep in mind that the blue team has the option to capture bases via parachute drops which makes it easier and more dynamic for them to move the frontline. 

[HR_Tumu]

Thx to ADW admins. Another great edition. Thx to all players

This time we end on a Draw... but for me taste like a victory.  The Blue team push very hard this time. 

I was sure we ( reds ) will lost the campaign.  More easy flack on tanks for kill it more easy,  no  efective defences on bases for easy bomb runs over airfields, posibility to capture via parachutes...  and at the end... planes from kuban vs planes from salingrad... too many challenges ,  end in a draw is very good end.

See all in next edition. ( si dios quiere ) 

[6./ZG26_Custard]

2 hours ago, HR_Tofolo said:

Keep in mind that the blue team has the option to capture bases via parachute drops which makes it easier and more dynamic for them to move the frontline. 

I think it's pertinent to add that the ridiculous side imbalances particularly in the early maps created situations where the LW could more or less bomb with impunity. I have noted that many early AM LW level bombers were "VERY" successful due to lack of fighter opposition/numbers and probably a reduction in the number of K-61's. The same is true for the LW fighters who could equip Gun pods without fear of a large VVS fighter presence.  Out of the ten pilot deaths I suffered, eight were due to gun pod equipped enemy fighters.

Things did even up somewhat in the latter stages but several maps had already been won. 

I normally fly LW but chose to fly Red as a ground attacker. My personal experience was flying Red definitely seems more survivable against ground fire than as LW. Out of 47 sorties I lost 2 aircraft to ground fire and one was because I did a suicidal attack when reds were outnumbered 53 to 22. Personally speaking,  without proper support its really not worth flying the 87. In the last campaign the K-61 was like a laser guided killing machine. 

Thanks to the organisers and virtual pilots on both sides. I just hope next time we will have more even numbers.

Edited March 3, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

You have to be careful where it falls on the map of Kuban. 

Stop motion with screenshots of the IL-2 in one of the last missions in the TAW.

 

 

 

[LLv44_Mprhead]

1 hour ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Thanks to the organisers and virtual pilots on both sides. I just hope next time we will have more even numbers.

 

Yep. There should be more blue and less red... Actually the numbers depend on what time you are flying. When it's russian prime time reds tend to outnumber blues with fairly big margin. Something like 30 vs 50 would be quite typical. Then it's even up later on and I guess at some point blues are majority.

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

I know that this has been discussed in other occasions of this subforum.

 

If you look closely at the numbers you will see that the Reds have won this last map by killing hundreds of helpless blue pilots on their parachutes and leaving the Blues without pilots.

Honestly, winning maps like this seems perverse and also generates real hatred between the two sides. I think the admins should consider maintaining the number of pilots that they have on each side. I think that the number of planes is enough.

 

This seems perverse for several reasons:

 

The developers (777) try at all times to have fair play. That we respect ourselves in the forums, that people do not get insulted. Let there be no xenophobia between blues and reds. That no swastikas can be seen anywhere ... In short, that we are friendly, that this is definitely a simulator, a game.

 

To knock down an airplane and perhaps to kill the pilot without wanting it is one thing, but to get to destroy an enemy plane, to see it fall, it is well the game has been designed for this, but ... then to turn around with the airplane calmly and to strafe the parachute first, and then take another turn, and now strafing the doll / pilot that goes down in free fall and that is already going to kill on the ground, is very perverse. This has happened to me, and I could give the names of the two pilots involved in such a fact but ... At that moment, it generates hatred for me. As much as they kill me on purpose in the parachute, I refuse to do such a vile and honorable thing as a pilot.

 

Maybe for the next TAW you can put columns of war refugees on the roads and thus have another system to gain maps. The one that more women and children machine-gun and kill them will be given a medal and when they are finished with the refugees the map will be won.

 

Or maybe put concentration camps or prisoners and also strafe them or bomb them and win that kill them all.

 

I would like to know what Jason and the development team think of this new trend to simulate the war as it was. Simulate war crimes.

 

A cordial greeting for all.

 

PD. Sorry: Google English

[curiousGamblerr]

8 minutes ago, 1/JSpan_Guerrero said:

generates real hatred between the two sides.

 

It is each player's choice to let themselves feel hatred over a video game. If you choose to let yourself hate your fellow man over this issue, you've got bigger problems than being shot in your virtual chute.

[HenHawk]

7 hours ago, Carl_infar said:

As per my experience flying taw i noticed following:
German team has and should have no problems with "ground moving"  ( due to superior loadouts of their planes )- the problem is more on players side but I'll get back to it later.
Lets look at the facts:
-in all 8 maps the front line was pushed more to the east than to the west.
-all maps which germans won (4) were due to conquering the territory
-all maps which russians won were due to attrition (in those maps the front line was pretty close to the eastern side and only the blue attrition saved the red side)

-in first 12 top scoring ground pounders there are no russians
-in  first 20 top scoring ground pounders there are 5 russians
-in first 50 top scoring ground pounders there are 19 russians
-the first 2 top scoring german ground pounders have roughly same amount of ground kills as first 7 russian top scoring ground pounders
- the first 10 top scoring german ground pounders have together roughly same amount of kills as first 32 top scoring russian groud pounders.

- in first 10 top scoring fighters there are  only 3 germans
- in first 20 to scoring fighters there are 8 germans
- in first 50 top scoring fighters there are 21 germans
- in first 100 top scoring fighters there are 38 germans

-according to my experience there was no problem with aaa (at least this taw - in previous i've flown red side so cant compare), i've lost much less planes to aaa than while flying the red side (something like 9 loses in 200 + sorties out of which something like 150 were diving attacks , with 90% of the loses while me doing stupid things and departing from usual attack tactic or running accidently low level into random flak emplacement) - basing on my experience i'dont find the red aaa superior to blue one.
-during my flying i've seen many poorly executed attack runs on blue side -many people tend to dive in straight line into the barrels of aaa guns and are suprised when they are shoot down...
-i've noticed that during my presence on the server roughly minimum of 60% of blue side players flying within one mission dont get any air or ground kills during the whole 2 hours (for red side i've noticed it was nearer to 30%) and i was wondering what were they doing the whole time, while at the same moment, the blue attacker requests for cap or cover were in 7 out of 10 cases left without reply...
- if the overcast cloud base was present below 3000m, i cant remember even one instance when  blue fighters would be willing to cover the target which was placed on red territory...

So my personal opinion is:
1) the blue side seams to attrack more new pilots who are still learning than the red side
2) the blue side seams to play 2 games - attackers go bravely and push the frontline while most (for sure not all) of the fighters has the taw campaign goals and the attackers fate in the bottom part of their backs and offer very little support (except of course some pilots who were always willing to help)

3) if the blue fighters would care more for the blue bombers and attackers the blue side would be unstoppable 

 

I agree with a lot of your observations, but feel the “red side works together as a honed machine, blue side is a bunch of lone Hartmanns” argument is a bit overstated. A huge piece of the difference in attrition is 1) blue planes can take very little damage before being knocked out, 2) red pilot deaths are minimized more by having less risk of being captured after bailing.  I have caught MANY lone red bombers without escort or have seen a couple red strike/bombers attacking a target without cover. Would love to see more coordination from blue fighters, a problem on both sides to a similar degree, so I don’t think it can be pointed to as primarily what causes blue side to lose maps.

 

The final maps of this campaign, most reds just took up fighters and caused huge losses in blue planes, winning it by attrition. This accounts for your observation that the front was pushed East and most top bomber pilots were blue. Reds just focused on fighter CAP areas, blue planes would be knocked out with a couple mg rounds from 600m away, a lot of the time losing pilots by them being captured because of the increased chance of it. Really, reds just seem to need a handful of airfields and everyone up in fighters, there seemed little need for reds to do any more than a minimal amount of ground work. Maybe increasing total amount of planes/pilots for both sides would give more time for ground work to actually make a difference. Right now it seems TAW has pretty much turned into a fighter jock server, which is a shame.

Edited March 3, 2018 by HenHawk

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

It hink a Complete Loss Statistic is in Order. 

 

That means these Points for every Ingame Aircraft Type (All losses Losses as "Pilot Survived" and "Pilots Killed" in Parentheses) and Losses per Minute of Flight Time as well as total Flight Time per Type and Average Flight Time per Type.

1. Combat Unrelated Crashes including Take-Off and Landing WITHOUT Collisions, So: "Aircraft crashed on Take-Off", "Crashed on Landing", "Ditched far away from Airport" and Maybe: ("Crash due to Engine Overstress") All these are down to Individual Piloting Failures
2. Combat unrelated Collisions and friendly Fire "Aircraft Collision on Ground", "Aircraft Collision in Mid Air", "Friendly Fire", "Other Collisions" It takes two to Tango
3. Combat related Collisions "Rammed + Aircraft Type that rammed", "Aircraft destroyed on Ground"  Example: "Ju-87 Losses by Ramming: 12 through LaGG-3, 133 by LaGG-3, 34 by I-16 etc." "Fw190 Losses on Airfield: 6 to La-5FN, 15 to La-5, 21 to Yak-1b etc."
4. Combat Losses to Groundfire + Type of Gun Example:  Bf-110E Losses by AA: 82 through 61-K, 2 to 72-K, 3 to M4 AA on ZiS, 7 through 52-K
5. Combat Losses to Aircraft Gunner + Type of Aircraft: Example: P-40 Losses to Gunner: 3 to He-111H-6, 7 to Bf110E, 11 to Ju-88 etc.
6. Combat Losses to Forward Firing Guns: Example: Pe-2-37 Losses to Forward Guns: 156 to Bf-110, 14 to Ju-87 Stuka, 182 to Bf109E etc.

 

That would be comprehensive and cover the most Important Questions. 

[AKA_Relent]

Regarding chute shooting, this would probably work itself out if the "finish flight" delay was reduced from 15 seconds down to 5 seconds or something similar.

 

More a question for LG - why was the finish flight/respawn delay set so high in the first place?  It seems that forcing a player who bailed out, ditched or landed to wait 15 seconds before they can choose another aircraft is a bit excessive.   If the original idea was to prevent players from jumping back into a plane and into the air too quickly, it seems the "cold start" introduced this last round has forced a delay for everyone to get into the air.  Thus, that aspect of the "finish flight" delay may not be necessary - but leaving it long does seem to tempt some players into using that time to shoot chutes.

 

Just a suggestion...  Oh, and thanks again LG for all your effort in putting this campaign together, it's always a lot of fun and a great challenge.

Edited March 3, 2018 by AKA_Relent

[JG4_Widukind]

I would like to thank the TAW Team very much.
I know that it costs a lot of nerves and work. Thanks!

Special thanks go out to our friends from the USA, Australia, China and New Zealand, who kept rescuing the front during the night or even pushed it further east. Without you it would be much worse for the Blue Team.

Special thanks to our Finnish friends with whom we flew for many nights and had a lot of fun in Teamspeak. Thank you, we'll be back!

Many thanks from JG4 See you in the next TAW again ... until then Horridooo!

[E69_chopo]

Thx, great work LG 

[HenHawk]

Post campaign reminder:

 

Remember to donate a few Euro to help get the next TAW running! If you spent >2 hours enjoying the last campaign, at least donate the amount you might have spent on a movie ticket and popcorn if you had done something like that for entertainment instead!

Edited March 3, 2018 by HenHawk

[=BES=Senor_Jefe]

11 hours ago, 1/JSpan_Guerrero said:

I know that this has been discussed in other occasions of this subforum.

 

If you look closely at the numbers you will see that the Reds have won this last map by killing hundreds of helpless blue pilots on their parachutes and leaving the Blues without pilots.

Honestly, winning maps like this seems perverse and also generates real hatred between the two sides. I think the admins should consider maintaining the number of pilots that they have on each side. I think that the number of planes is enough.

 

This seems perverse for several reasons:

 

The developers (777) try at all times to have fair play. That we respect ourselves in the forums, that people do not get insulted. Let there be no xenophobia between blues and reds. That no swastikas can be seen anywhere ... In short, that we are friendly, that this is definitely a simulator, a game.

 

To knock down an airplane and perhaps to kill the pilot without wanting it is one thing, but to get to destroy an enemy plane, to see it fall, it is well the game has been designed for this, but ... then to turn around with the airplane calmly and to strafe the parachute first, and then take another turn, and now strafing the doll / pilot that goes down in free fall and that is already going to kill on the ground, is very perverse. This has happened to me, and I could give the names of the two pilots involved in such a fact but ... At that moment, it generates hatred for me. As much as they kill me on purpose in the parachute, I refuse to do such a vile and honorable thing as a pilot.

 

Maybe for the next TAW you can put columns of war refugees on the roads and thus have another system to gain maps. The one that more women and children machine-gun and kill them will be given a medal and when they are finished with the refugees the map will be won.

 

Or maybe put concentration camps or prisoners and also strafe them or bomb them and win that kill them all.

 

I would like to know what Jason and the development team think of this new trend to simulate the war as it was. Simulate war crimes.

 

A cordial greeting for all.

 

PD. Sorry: Google English

First:

I'm curious how you can extrapolate that so many pilot deaths are from chute killing.  I'm geniously curious of your answer, since I don't pay attention to the stats but would be pleasantly surprised if one could see such statistics.

 

Second:

Hatred? Really? Perhaps you should evaluate how serious you take this game.  Just to liven the conversation up a tad - as the same argument has been played out a million times.... - is it wrong to kill a paratrooper in his chute from the ground?  Nope.  So besides your arcane reasoning that it's less chivalrous, there is no difference.  Both types of chutists are combatants! 

 

Also, chute killing wasn't a war crime until 1949, so that argument is void.

Edited March 4, 2018 by =BES=Coyote-66

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

Well, Friendly Fire was just as common an Occurence as Chutekilling. So Accidents may happen, *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

 

But in any Case, can you blame us? Every Map we played was Stacked, often 2:1 or worse so yeah, we did what we could to destroy as many German Planes as possible, and the Odds made Honor a given no matter what. 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

The way TAW is apparently intended to work is that the German Plane count is the most decisive Factor on any given Map. Either they win before they run out, or they run out. They can never Win in the Attrition, and I hope the Stats I requested can shed a Light on why.

 

Quote

It hink a Complete Loss Statistic is in Order. 

 

That means these Points for every Ingame Aircraft Type (All losses Losses as "Pilot Survived" and "Pilots Killed" in Parentheses) and Losses per Minute of Flight Time as well as total Flight Time per Type and Average Flight Time per Type. Also: Average Number of Combat Sorties per Loss. 

 

1. Combat Unrelated Crashes including Take-Off and Landing WITHOUT Collisions, So: "Aircraft crashed on Take-Off", "Crashed on Landing", "Ditched far away from Airport" and Maybe: ("Crash due to Engine Overstress") All these are down to Individual Piloting Failures
2. Combat unrelated Collisions and friendly Fire "Aircraft Collision on Ground", "Aircraft Collision in Mid Air", "Friendly Fire", "Other Collisions" It takes two to Tango
3. Combat related Collisions "Rammed + Aircraft Type that rammed", "Aircraft destroyed on Ground"  Example: "Ju-87 Losses by Ramming: 12 through Yak-1, 133 by LaGG-3, 34 by I-16 etc." "Fw190 Losses on Airfield: 6 to La-5FN, 15 to La-5, 21 to Yak-1b etc."
4. Combat Losses to Groundfire + Type of Gun Example:  Bf-110E Losses by AA: 82 through 61-K, 2 to 72-K, 3 to M4 AA on ZiS, 7 through 52-K
5. Combat Losses to Aircraft Gunner + Type of Aircraft: Example: P-40 Losses to Gunner: 3 to He-111H-6, 7 to Bf110E, 11 to Ju-88 etc.
6. Combat Losses to Forward Firing Guns: Example: Pe-2-37 Losses to Forward Guns: 156 to Bf-110, 14 to Ju-87 Stuka, 182 to Bf109E etc.

 

That would be comprehensive and cover the most Important Questions. 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann

[KoN_]

Thank you for all your hard work ``Kathon and LG guys . And too every one that flown .

Looking forward to the next big patch and i hope a new start to TAW. 

[KoN_]

From what i seen Many times bombers  were asking for fighter support or needed cover and it just did not happen .

Also noticed that some would not engage in dog fights or even help out ``lone bombers being attacked i witnessed this on several occasions fighter pilots flying by and not even bothering to come down to engage  .

The stats game came into play . 

However some did help out a lot and certain squads and single players you know how you are did put a lot of energy in to the game  . 

Edited March 4, 2018 by II./JG77_Con

[HenHawk]

3 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann said:

 

[...]Every Map we played was Stacked, often 2:1 or worse so yeah, we did what we could to destroy as many German Planes as possible, and the Odds made Honor a given no matter what. 

 

Often 2:1? No need to try to simulate being a communist propagandist, let's just stick with simulating being WWII combat pilots.... After map 2 team numbers were generally slightly skewed to blue the majority of the time, but consistently being 2:1 is a huge stretch. I won't get into the times during N. American tz's where reds way outnumbered blue....

 

I still don't understand why most red pilots skipped joining in on maps 1 & 2. The I16/P40/mig vs. E7/mc202/F2 match-up is probably as close and competitive as the current plane set gets!

 

 

[Cpt_Siddy]

2 minutes ago, HenHawk said:

 

Often 2:1? No need to try to simulate being a communist propagandist, let's just stick with simulating being WWII combat pilots.... After map 2 team numbers were generally slightly skewed to blue the majority of the time, but consistently being 2:1 is a huge stretch. I won't get into the times during N. American tz's where reds way outnumbered blue....

 

I still don't understand why most red pilots skipped joining in on maps 1 & 2. The I16/P40/mig vs. E7/mc202/F2 match-up is probably as close and competitive as the current plane set gets!

 

 

 

 

First two maps had horrendous server problem on red prime time and the maps ended by basically tanks just rolled our front airports, server were down the prime times and US zoners mopped the rest. 

[=FB=FLint_]

 

[FTC_DerSheriff]

21 hours ago, HenHawk said:

The final maps of this campaign, most reds just took up fighters and caused huge losses in blue planes, winning it by attrition. This accounts for your observation that the front was pushed East and most top bomber pilots were blue. Reds just focused on fighter CAP areas, blue planes would be knocked out with a couple mg rounds from 600m away, a lot of the time losing pilots by them being captured because of the increased chance of it. Really, reds just seem to need a handful of airfields and everyone up in fighters, there seemed little need for reds to do any more than a minimal amount of ground work.

its not like it starts out like this. usually both sides want to cap airfields at the beginning of a map. And then after a few days a significant difference in losses can be noted. Usually then we enforced an attrition tactic. You know, at one point you have to pick a strategy which brings you the best result possible.
And you say its the likelyhood of capturing why attrition works so well. That can't be the case since only one map was lost due to pilots.

Ur squad changed basic tactics according to the situation. If the reds were heavily outnumbered, we would go full defense. Stay above ur own lines, to have fast exit routes and to wait for the enemy. We just would play the attrition game. And why not? how to win otherwise in the conditions we faced in the first 4 Maps? I dont know! Just go full head on against all the fighters just waiting for their single kill of the day? Hell no. wait and kill aircraft I say.
While there were plenty of skilled pilots on the german sides, most were not. Throwing their aircraft against the next best AAA. 109s with gunpods throwing away their energy in the first dives and falling for the easiest energy trap. As soon as a skilled fighter pilot appears the siutation is totally different. But on the otherside i have to say that pilot quality much improved over the last campaigns. Less lone jabo 109s on the way to a painstation.

While its possible to shoot a german aircraft at 600m with MG only, its not the norm. If you harm an enemy at that range, its usually damage a german fighter can survive if treated correctly.

As soon as the numbers are better, like 1:2 (lol) we started more aggressive fighter sweeps over the enemy tanks and would lure the enemy fighters away. very often like 5-10 german fighters who just followed us where ever we went. MINE MINE MINE. Leaving the tanks alone. ur ground attackers could sweep in and could exploit that gap at times. But even then we only could slow down the advance.

What you say sounds  like "they only flew fighters because they aren't skilled enough to win with other means" I say "they flew mostly fighters because they couldn't win otherwise"

 

 

37 minutes ago, =fb=FLint_ said:

 

 

Do i may ask why you aren't blacking out in the first video even tho you hear the pilot suffer from the G-Forces?

Edited March 4, 2018 by DerSheriff

[HenHawk]

36 minutes ago, DerSheriff said:

its not like it starts out like this. usually both sides want to cap airfields at the beginning of a map. And then after a few days a significant difference in losses can be noted. Usually then we enforced an attrition tactic. You know, at one point you have to pick a strategy which brings you the best result possible.
And you say its the likelyhood of capturing why attrition works so well. That can't be the case since only one map was lost due to pilots.

Ur squad changed basic tactics according to the situation. If the reds were heavily outnumbered, we would go full defense. Stay above ur own lines, to have fast exit routes and to wait for the enemy. We just would play the attrition game. And why not? how to win otherwise in the conditions we faced in the first 4 Maps? I dont know! Just go full head on against all the fighters just waiting for their single kill of the day? Hell no. wait and kill aircraft I say.
While there were plenty of skilled pilots on the german sides, most were not. Throwing their aircraft against the next best AAA. 109s with gunpods throwing away their energy in the first dives and falling for the easiest energy trap. As soon as a skilled fighter pilot appears the siutation is totally different. But on the otherside i have to say that pilot quality much improved over the last campaigns. Less lone jabo 109s on the way to a painstation.

While its possible to shoot a german aircraft at 600m with MG only, its not the norm. If you harm an enemy at that range, its usually damage a german fighter can survive if treated correctly.

As soon as the numbers are better, like 1:2 (lol) we started more aggressive fighter sweeps over the enemy tanks and would lure the enemy fighters away. very often like 5-10 german fighters who just followed us where ever we went. MINE MINE MINE. Leaving the tanks alone. ur ground attackers could sweep in and could exploit that gap at times. But even then we only could slow down the advance.

What you say sounds  like "they only flew fighters because they aren't skilled enough to win with other means" I say "they flew mostly fighters because they couldn't win otherwise"

 

 

 

 

 

Guess it is way easier to become defensive rather than objective. I never mentioned a word about red side not having an overall firm tactical grasp of how to win a map. Blue side often struggles with a firm idea on what needs to be tactically done. Often I have seen LW groups attack targets all over the map for nothing more than a chance at a stat, leaving what should be a primary objective left untouched. Meanwhile a few are in chat trying to persuade the majority to actually attack/defend something worthwhile.... but I digress...

 

What I did say is that there seems to be minimal reason for red side to do anything other than go up in fighters, with maybe a few scattered ground attacks during crucial times. If you get down to how the aircrafts can cope with damage and how the server is setup, how could Red not win with attrition? You can mix in some skill level stuff with things like “most new pilots fly LW”, but why even bother with other variables if the two big ones are so prominent? 

 

I guess if you stretched my words or really tried to fill in some sentences between what I wrote, then you could make it seem I’m saying Red side had no skill this last campaign. Would be a ridiculous argument I’d be making considering how many times I got shot down/killed by those “unskilled” Red pilots! But, you should know better than anyone, Sheriff, that TAW is now geared towards the fighter pilot side of things.

 

All-in-all, I have to say this was one of the most balanced TAW campaigns. Prior ones reds really did have some more significant advantages in terms of AA and airfield locations. An argument could easily be made that blue could have pulled off a campaign win and overcome plane/pilot loss disadvantages with more cohesive tactics. Especially that last map when people kept attacking useless tank columns rather than focusing on shutting down the last airfields.

 

1 hour ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

First two maps had horrendous server problem on red prime time and the maps ended by basically tanks just rolled our front airports, server were down the prime times and US zoners mopped the rest. 

 

I wasn’t aware there was that sort of server problem on those maps. I was not playing on the EU time zone around that time. Makes a lot more sense, I really thought Red side was pretty much refusing to play because of the plane set!

[HenHawk]

1 hour ago, DerSheriff said:

Do i may ask why you aren't blacking out in the first video even tho you hear the pilot suffer from the G-Forces?

 

Hmmmmmmmmm.... his sound clearly decreases from positive G-Forces, which would be consistent with his speed/maneuver, but his screen shows absolutely no vision changes. Or was sound decreased because of throttle being cut? Does seem suspicious.

Edited March 4, 2018 by HenHawk

[FTC_DerSheriff]

1 minute ago, HenHawk said:

 

Hmmmmmmmmm.... his sound clearly decreases from positive G-Forces, which would be consistent with his speed/maneuver, but his screen shows absolutely no vision changes. Very suspicious.

Could a replay thing, but I dont know anything of such bug and looks fishy. But dunno

[A_radek]

Henhawk I halfway agree with you. 

Though I'm surpised you mix in Axis aircraft fragility as one of two significant variables. Surely you can see blue aircraft also have one or two advantages.

 

Here's my 02.

 

I strongly suspect most of us loose more aircraft than we destroy. Yes this is quite sad and goes for both teams. Likely most of us also die more than kill, especially dedicated ground pounders. 

 

If we agree on that the rest is clear.

 

A team with a very large numerical advantage and insignificant resistance will mow the map. One with, say only 30% more pilots, will loose by flying itself to attrition death quicker than the smaller team. Main reason, having more players. Result only accelerated by trying to conquer the map.

 

So assuming team and player balance stays the same. I'd wager it will all come down to team numbers rather than skill, tactics or game/server mechanics for the outcome of future campaigns. 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by a_radek

[Guest deleted@103832]

59 minutes ago, a_radek said:

A team with a very large numerical advantage and insignificant resistance will mow the map. One with, say only 30% more pilots, will loose by flying itself to attrition death quicker than the smaller team. Main reason, having more players. Result only accelerated by trying to conquer the map.

 

+1.... One possible fix for this, provided there is a consensus that it is a situation that needs fixing, is scoring a ditched aircraft as a .5 loss and a crashed/captured A/C as a full 1.0 loss.

1 hour ago, a_radek said:

Likely most of us also die more than kill, especially dedicated ground pounders. 

 

+1, and it sometimes takes 2-4 map frames to ascertain whether ground-pounding specific targets has any permanent impact vs. the number of A/C lost to inflict that damage. There are several ways for the opposing side to mitigate that damage through resupply flights/convoys/trains/bridges to damaged targets.

[HenHawk]

8 hours ago, a_radek said:

Henhawk I halfway agree with you. 

Though I'm surpised you mix in Axis aircraft fragility as one of two significant variables. Surely you can see blue aircraft also have one or two advantages.

 

 

 

Just to be clear, I am never trying to argue that Axis doesn’t have some clear advantages. My points were more a counter to the opinion that blue loses the battle of attrition simply because of poor tactics/play. Yes, everyone playing the game perfectly on one side, even blue, will obviously likely result in a win.  But, I also see very poor tactics, throwing away aircraft, lone wolfing, etc., from the red side, but there’s more “cushion” to absorb that sort of loss. Red generally works better as a team and towards a solid tactical goal, but the difference from blue just doesn’t seem so drastic as many make it out to be.

 

My other point I was trying to make was that there’s just no reason I see for either side to really do any ground pounding the majority of time. Might as well not occur the losses, everyone flys up in fighters, and then just let the inevitable attrition decide the map. It’s not like you would need more than 2-3 airfields to do this and I doubt the tanks would cut a side’s number of airfields down in time.

Edited March 5, 2018 by HenHawk

[=KAG=RubiN]

On 03.03.2018 at 4:48 PM, 1/JSpan_Guerrero said:

I know that this has been discussed in other occasions of this subforum.

 

If you look closely at the numbers you will see that the Reds have won this last map by killing hundreds of helpless blue pilots on their parachutes and leaving the Blues without pilots.

Honestly, winning maps like this seems perverse and also generates real hatred between the two sides. I think the admins should consider maintaining the number of pilots that they have on each side. I think that the number of planes is enough.

 

This seems perverse for several reasons:

 

The developers (777) try at all times to have fair play. That we respect ourselves in the forums, that people do not get insulted. Let there be no xenophobia between blues and reds. That no swastikas can be seen anywhere ... In short, that we are friendly, that this is definitely a simulator, a game.

 

To knock down an airplane and perhaps to kill the pilot without wanting it is one thing, but to get to destroy an enemy plane, to see it fall, it is well the game has been designed for this, but ... then to turn around with the airplane calmly and to strafe the parachute first, and then take another turn, and now strafing the doll / pilot that goes down in free fall and that is already going to kill on the ground, is very perverse. This has happened to me, and I could give the names of the two pilots involved in such a fact but ... At that moment, it generates hatred for me. As much as they kill me on purpose in the parachute, I refuse to do such a vile and honorable thing as a pilot.

 

Maybe for the next TAW you can put columns of war refugees on the roads and thus have another system to gain maps. The one that more women and children machine-gun and kill them will be given a medal and when they are finished with the refugees the map will be won.

 

Or maybe put concentration camps or prisoners and also strafe them or bomb them and win that kill them all.

 

I would like to know what Jason and the development team think of this new trend to simulate the war as it was. Simulate war crimes.

 

A cordial greeting for all.

 

PD. Sorry: Google English

Many blue pilots are shooting, already shot down the plane, which DITCH, killing the pilot on the ground. With you they do the same, so do not be surprised.

Edited March 5, 2018 by =KAG=RubiN

[=2ndSS=JOCKER]

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth ! 

[1/JSpan_Wind75]

4 hours ago, =KAG=RubiN said:

Many blue pilots are shooting, already shot down the plane, which DITCH, killing the pilot on the ground. With you they do the same, so do not be surprised.

 

Yeah right. This is the real war. Violence, even if it is virtual) generates violence in a spiral, and the Eye for Eye exits, someone executes a mass execution, and the opposing side sees barbarism because it does the same or similar, if one side violates the women and kills to children the other side ends up doing the same. If one side bombs cities without being war targets the other side does the same. If one side kills the prisoners because they do not feed them, nor spend them on medicines and thus ensure victory based on attrition, so be it.

 

If a side here begins to kill parachute pilots who feel powerless because you can not get out of the game (15 seconds) and see how they assassinate you helpless. You have jumped hoping not to lose the virtual life, from now on I will be a kamikace, if I am touched I will crash against the bomber or the enemy plane so as not to die alone and also kill those of the bomber or the other pilot, total does not serve nothing jump.

 

In fact, before I was in favor of a system that would match the number of pilots on the maps. Not now! If we simulate war with all its barbarism, the inequality in numbers of soldiers, planes, pilots is also real as the war itself. So if the reds are always crying that they are less is their problem. As is the war. That they recruit more soldiers and stop whining.

 

Although already a friend warned me that this issue is a lost discussion. Most pilots like it. So I'll let this continue like this ...

 

In my time as a virtual pilot of all types of server competition this of killing paratroopers was ... first very badly seen, and second was forbidden. Times have changed, now there is a lot of video game player where you win missions by bursting the head of a doll or even selling drugs to the protagonist and executing one who is being interviewed by shooting him in the back of the neck. So I think this discussion is lost. And for my part I put an end to it.

Edited March 5, 2018 by 1/JSpan_Guerrero

[FTC_Riksen]

I'm one who was totally against shooting chutes but when you fly 50vs20 I started shooting down all pilots in their chutes in order to slow down their respawn and stacking. I'm not proud of it but when you are flying against stackers, the situation becomes desperate and you do what you have to in order to help your team.