Tactical Air War

[=AD=Str1ke]

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=90489&name=-=RedS=-Str1ke

killed pilot, but He111 dosen't added too statistics

[=FSB=Man-Yac]

http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=90489&name=-=RedS=-Str1ke

killed pilot, but He111 dosen't added too statistics

I had a same issue this taw, i killed a spitfire pilot but didn't get credit for the kill. Its because he was flying without a rudder and the guy that got the rudder was awarded the kill. (fun fact he was still flying around while considered shot down by server). If you look into the 111 sortie (http://taw.stg2.de/pilot_sortie.php?id=90433&name=I./SG2_Maler) you can see that he took  a bunch of damage from somtething else (0.878 from unspecified in this case) and that is what probably got the credit for the kill.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

As for the maxim causing major structural damage to a plane, it seems possible. First the round is sizable at 7.62 mm and leaves the muzzle at around 740 m/s. That is no inconsequential force. Now consider that there are 4 of these rounds hitting around the same place on a plane. Granted the round won't blow the wing off a 109 all by itself but it doesn't have to. The wing is under load and the way the 109 is designed the skin of the wing is also load bearing. If you weaken that structure enough the wing loading itself can do the rest, if you add the extra load of maneuvering to the basic wing load produced by normal flight then structural failing in the wing is more and more likely. Of course more testing would be needed to come to any solid conclusions as to the in-game performance as compared to real world performance.

 

About the quad maxim, yes they are four guns, but the Maxim machine gun has low rate of fire in itself, around 600 rounds per minute, it would give in total around 2400, which sounds quite impressive yes, but if you compare this it's more or less the same rate of fire of the combined twin MG 17s in the nose of the 109, or the twin MG 81Z in other German planes, and these guns aren't taking apart planes in single burst like sometimes happen with the quad Maxim, and imho they shouldn't (not in a small burst at least). Other combined rate of fires from other machine guns in game,  double ShKAS in the Yak: 3600 rpm, quad Brownings in the Spit: 4600 rpm

[Wolfram-Harms]

What the heck does that mean, when the Server writes a note to me: "Olham, your account is locked!"

Why should it be locked? What am I doing wrong???

Edited December 12, 2017 by Olham

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

3.7cm Flak 18/36/37/43 were produced about 20 000 times as well. And it has a practical rate of fire of 120 to 150, while 61-K has 60-80 per minute. 

3.7cm Flak and 61-K should be able to completely shut down all CAS. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[-SF-Disarray]

About the quad maxim, yes they are four guns, but the Maxim machine gun has low rate of fire in itself, around 600 rounds per minute, it would give in total around 2400, which sounds quite impressive yes, but if you compare this it's more or less the same rate of fire of the combined twin MG 17s in the nose of the 109, or the twin MG 81Z in other German planes, and these guns aren't taking apart planes in single burst like sometimes happen with the quad Maxim, and imho they shouldn't (not in a small burst at least). Other combined rate of fires from other machine guns in game,  double ShKAS in the Yak: 3600 rpm, quad Brownings in the Spit: 4600 rpm

 

I'm not arguing that the quad maxim should be a veritable meat-grinder, only that a 7.62 mm MG is capable of producing catastrophic failure in the structural members of a plane; especially in planes like a 109 which were designed to be light and fast resulting in it being somewhat fragile. Both the 61-K and 72-K guns should be much more effective, and if you've ever been hit by one you can be sure that they are.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Disarray

[FTC_Knipser]

One Reason for the lack of Teamplay and Communication on TAW is the use of two different Tools. One group uses Teamspeak, the other half uses Discord! Discord may be the new fancy shizzle, most online players use nowadays, but teamspeak works just as well! Since the guys who run the TAW-Server have a teamspeak server ready for us to join, those who want to fly together should simply USE IT!

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I hate Discord with a Passion.

 

I'm not arguing that the quad maxim should be a veritable meat-grinder, only that a 7.62 mm MG is capable of producing catastrophic failure in the structural members of a plane; especially in planes like a 109 which were designed to be light and fast resulting in it being somewhat fragile. Both the 61-K and 72-K guns should be much more effective, and if you've ever been hit by one you can be sure that they are.

Well, you need an awful lot of 7.62 to bring down even a 109. The RAF experienced that. 

 

The 61-K normally takes 1 hit to kill anything, 72-K 2-3. They are really effective when they hit, the question though is, how often should they do so? At an effective Rate of fire of less than 100 rounds per minute, it is on the slow side and hitting any fast moving target at a distance will be difficult. 

 

61-K ingame is pretty much the God of AA ingame, far surpassing all other guns and causing massive LW Losses, while the German Side doesn't get the historical Counterpiece 3.7 Flak 36. 

Consequently the Russians have less than 1/3rd of the AA losses compared to LW.

Edited December 12, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

[Wester]

It's apparent to me that my profile is banned from flying any planes, why is this?

5 seconds into spawning the plane results in a boot to the server browser.

[curiousGamblerr]

It's apparent to me that my profile is banned from flying any planes, why is this?

 

5 seconds into spawning the plane results in a boot to the server browser.

 

http://taw-server.de/manual.php

[HenHawk]

http://taw-server.de/manual.php

He’s been playing TAW for awhile, pretty sure he knows the manual. It looks like he has plenty of planes in his hanger. Did you change your in-game name recently, flak? A few people, including myself, have had a problem where the game just kicks you out to server browser several times. There is no warning or clear reason, just says the player has exited. It happened to me the other night at random times, but then just stopped doing it (hopefully). Was happening to someone on TS last night. My best guess is it’s caused by a master server problem. I’d suggest just giving it a little time and trying again later. The only other thing I can think of is maybe a file got corrupted, so you can try backing up your settings files and then deleting your updates folder, which forces the game to redownload/repair everything.

Edited December 13, 2017 by HenHawk

[Carl_infar]

wasnt the la5 a cm+1 plane in last campaign map (as per current plane set)?

 

currently it doesnt work. I'm not getting another la5 after i wreck one (the Kuban maps puts grate strain on my old computer and I already wrecked many planes by myself due to very poor frame rates in addition to enemy action...)

 

And thanks very much for the campaign. 

 

I hope You will leave P40 at least till map 7 in next campaign(As I wrote some time before - historically the P40 E served on front line for example in kuban till minimum july 1943)

Edited December 13, 2017 by Carl_infar

[IRRE-Quintus11]

On behalf of –IRRE- team, I would like to congratulate all the people who worked hard to bring to the community this campaign.

We had lots of fun, and we are longing for the next one. We are thinking about flying blue next time : let’s go for some carpet bombing !

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Just noticed that the Germans dominate the Kuban map everytime (in terms of airfield and ground attack, they lose more planes and pilots). Does the map encourage more Germans to play bomber/ attacker? I am curious on the matter.

The red airfields are quite far apart. So getting some cover down is hard for the reds. And destroyed airfields stay destroyed and get quickly captured. 

 

Germans fly quite a lot bombers and groundattackers on other maps as well. And they die. IN the hundreds. But on kuban they do more damage and can fly longer over the targetzone.

Edited December 13, 2017 by DerSheriff

[ACG_KaiLae]

I hate Discord with a Passion.

 

 

Well, you need an awful lot of 7.62 to bring down even a 109. The RAF experienced that.

 

 

Love it or hate it, it has integrated chat and can be accessed with any browser. In any environment that has people with multiple nationalities that don't speak the same language, chat is probably the best communication. You can at least quickly google translate it.

 

As for .303, since I'm part of a hurricane squadron I can tell you that you kill German planes with it in one of 3 ways. First is holing a radiator. They then end up taking a swim 5-10 minutes later when their engine seizes. Second is pilot kills. Third is setting a fuel tank gloriously aflame.

 

Not once have I seen a wing or rudder or other major structural part sawed off. Doesn't happen.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Kai_Lae

[ACG_KaiLae]

I did a little google-fu on this question, I found it to be an interesting question. In so far as I can tell, based on raw production numbers the 61-K 37 mm anti-aircraft gun was the most produced of the three weapons with 20,000 built between 1939 and 1945. Next seems to be quad maxim rig with 12,000 produced between 1931 and 1942. Last comes the 25 mm 72-K anti-aircraft gun with between 2,000 and 5,000 units produced starting in around 1940 and going until about 1945 (for some reasons the numbers on the 72-K varied quite a lot.) Logically, if there are more of the 37 mm guns made they will be seen in greater numbers on the front, so I don't see a problem there; unless my numbers are way off. I wasn't able to find any reliable information on the deployment of these weapons though, so I will consed that it is possible, however unlikely, that more of the less powerful guns were pushed to the battles of Stalingrad, Moscow and Kuban. 

 

The question I have is not so much how many they had, but how many were mounted in the back of a truck?

[SCG_motoadve]

I am trying to like TAW but my experience so far has been take off on my own, navigate to combat area , fly 30 minutes , get bored and fly back to base, only seen one enemy plane in like 8 missions.

[Sketch]

I am trying to like TAW but my experience so far has been take off on my own, navigate to combat area , fly 30 minutes , get bored and fly back to base, only seen one enemy plane in like 8 missions.

This is because you're playing during American prime time... For whatever reason, during American prime time (aka: when most Americans play), there are no players on the server. Instead they all flock to that other server that has instant gratification.

 

UK players seem to love TAW way more, and you'll find that the server is full or nearly full during UK prime time.

Edited December 13, 2017 by [TWB]Sketch

[-SF-Disarray]

The question I have is not so much how many they had, but how many were mounted in the back of a truck?

 

That seems to be a rather more difficult question to answer. Based on what I am seeing it may have been something of a field modification to the ZiS 5 or 6 trucks. I found documentation of the gun being mounted in ZiS 42's, a half-track variation of the truck, but everywhere I looked had nothing about production numbers or even what factory they were assembled in. This leads me to believe that the truck mounted gun was an on-the-spot answer to a question faced on the front. If anyone has better info on the subject, by all means... 

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I am trying to like TAW but my experience so far has been take off on my own, navigate to combat area , fly 30 minutes , get bored and fly back to base, only seen one enemy plane in like 8 missions.

Right now is when you should come on the Comms. 

[SCG_motoadve]

So is there a Discord channel for each side when entering TAW?

[BubbRubb11]

Right now is when you should come on the Comms. 

 

I see that he is in Seattle, so I've had similar experiences myself playing in PST. Often there are barely even 5 people on TAW when I play after work at night here. The earlier, the better.

 

But yea, motoadve, just chill in the TAW Teamspeak, people do occasionally join and cooperate.

[Wester]

http://taw-server.de/manual.php

Clearly nothing in the manual explains why I am experiencing this.

I was banned!

 

It was fun while it lasted, but =LG= has a personal vendetta against apparent frauds like me. They would have replied to my previous post if I had broken any rules. But my proscription is just another example of the bad apples within the current IL-2 community.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Hi there

 

Two things (bugs ?)  I noticed :

- Ground objectives coordinates are incorrect on the screen popup messages, usually +3 grid east from the true position (0335 for a target that was in 0332, 1337 instead of 1334 etc...)

- Planes are (at least for me) resupplied only after 4 combat missions and not 3 as stated in the rules.

[Leutnant_Artur]

Clearly nothing in the manual explains why I am experiencing this.

I was banned!

 

It was fun while it lasted, but =LG= has a personal vendetta against apparent frauds like me. They would have replied to my previous post if I had broken any rules. But my proscription is just another example of the bad apples within the current IL-2 community.

As far as I know yesterday you've received PM from Kathon why you was banned. So you proscription is perfect example of bad in-game behaviour.

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

So is there a Discord channel for each side when entering TAW?

TS is where it's at. 

[Leutnant_Artur]

So is there a Discord channel for each side when entering TAW?

Yes but you need "blue" or "red" rank to enter side channel.

[Fidelity]

Could TAW choose just one solution for voice chat for the server? I don't personally care if it's Teamspeak or Discord, but this would help promote teamwork within the server. I've actually seen other games REQUIRE the use of being in voice chat when on the server or you could be kicked/suspended/banned. That would however require appointing moderators and instituting some type of player reporting system.

 

TAW continues to get better and better. Keep up the great work, guys!

[=KK=Des_]

This is because you're playing during American prime time... For whatever reason, during American prime time (aka: when most Americans play), there are no players on the server. Instead they all flock to that other server that has instant gratification.

 

UK players seem to love TAW way more, and you'll find that the server is full or nearly full during UK prime time.

I didn't met UK players here)) Only rus, ger,che, pol and so on. So better to say EU players))

[6./ZG26_Klaus_Mann]

I haven't checked TAW settings, but if the flak AI is on "normal", getting killed by flak is pilot error.

Flak AI "normal" is God Mode. Even at low Skill Level the AA is still about twice as effective as historic statistics. 

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/32578-bravery-being-out-range/page-3

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Just checked TAW Flak groups on the recent Kuban mission.

 

German defences:

Remote Airfield: MG34 (High, Flak 38 (High)

Frontline Airfield: Flak 38 (High), Flak 37 (Normal)

Convoy: Sdkfz. 10 with Flak 38 (Normal)

Defensive positions: Flak 37 (Normal, High), Flak 38 (High)

 

Russian:

Frontline Airfield: 52k (Normal, High), 61k (High),

Convoy: Zis-5 72k (Normal)

Defensive Positions: 61k (Normal, High), 52k (Normal)

 

As frontline airfields have by far the strongest defences I compared their number of units.

 

Frontline airfields:          German                                  Russian

                                 9 x Flak 38 (High)                   9 x 61K (High)

                                9 x Flak 37 (Normal)                9 x 52K (Normal)

 

The conclusion is that VVS enjoys more capeable AAA (85mm + 37mm) while germans get the limited Flak 38 (20mm) and not very versatile Flak 37 (88mm). This causes unbalance since the 61k has more range and destructive power than the Flak 38.

Edited December 14, 2017 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[-SF-Disarray]

You may want to consider the targets the guns are engaging though. The Soviet 52 K is a big gun, true, but it isn't very effective against planes that aren't medium bombers. And medium bombers are a major threat to Soviet airfields. The German fields on the other hand are equipped to defend against lower altitude, faster moving planes, the IL 2 and PE 2 respectively. The threat profile for the German airfields doesn't include large, high altitude bombers so large bore guns like the 88 aren't as useful in air-defense; they just can't traverse fast enough to keep up with low level attackers. It seems logical that the German fields would be equipped the way they are, thought on paper it does look lopsided.

[=FSB=Man-Yac]

You may want to consider the targets the guns are engaging though. The Soviet 52 K is a big gun, true, but it isn't very effective against planes that aren't medium bombers. And medium bombers are a major threat to Soviet airfields. The German fields on the other hand are equipped to defend against lower altitude, faster moving planes, the IL 2 and PE 2 respectively. The threat profile for the German airfields doesn't include large, high altitude bombers so large bore guns like the 88 aren't as useful in air-defense; they just can't traverse fast enough to keep up with low level attackers. It seems logical that the German fields would be equipped the way they are, thought on paper it does look lopsided.

Have you seen what 20 mm does to a pe2? They just tank the hits and make it home most of the times (in the game). 88 is currently a far greater threat to the pe2. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

You may want to consider the targets the guns are engaging though. The Soviet 52 K is a big gun, true, but it isn't very effective against planes that aren't medium bombers.

The most common AAA on VVS side is the 61K - 37mm which in one of the discussions proved to be outperforming both the german Flak 38 (20mm) and Flak 36 (37mm). This type of gun is a 1 hit wonder against fighters and a heavy beating on twin engine aircraft.

 

Also the 20mm gun has an effective range of no more than 1000m while the 61 K can shoot way beyond that. Yet is is deployed just as widely as the Flak 38. Seems wrong.

[Inkophile]

You may want to consider the targets the guns are engaging though. The Soviet 52 K is a big gun, true, but it isn't very effective against planes that aren't medium bombers. And medium bombers are a major threat to Soviet airfields. The German fields on the other hand are equipped to defend against lower altitude, faster moving planes, the IL 2 and PE 2 respectively. The threat profile for the German airfields doesn't include large, high altitude bombers so large bore guns like the 88 aren't as useful in air-defense; they just can't traverse fast enough to keep up with low level attackers. It seems logical that the German fields would be equipped the way they are, thought on paper it does look lopsided.

 

The problem is that AA in the game doesn't acquire an incoming target first, and then fire when the target gets within the effective range. The AA doesn't even start to acquire a target until it is within its effective range, and since that is about 1000m for the 20mm AA it means that especially Pe-2s basically are gone by the time the 20mm guns open fire.

 

With 37mm guns this isn't really an issue because their significantly longer range means that they'll definitely open up on a Pe-2 that otherwise can dive-bomb from 3-3.5 km and level out at 1.5km to fly home, completely without taking any 20mm fire at all.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

The most common AAA on VVS side is the 61K - 37mm which in one of the discussions proved to be outperforming both the german Flak 38 (20mm) and Flak 36 (37mm). This type of gun is a 1 hit wonder against fighters and a heavy beating on twin engine aircraft.

 

Also the 20mm gun has an effective range of no more than 1000m while the 61 K can shoot way beyond that. Yet is is deployed just as widely as the Flak 38. Seems wrong.

 

Add to this that the 61K has a 5 round clip and therefore should have a reload time between each volley, which is currently not modelled. Between the sniper ability of the high AI settings with this gun and the rate of fire twice that of the historical weapon, no wonders that LW looses much more aircraft to flak than VVS...

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

I would like to see which planes are the ones mostly shot down by the 61-K, as it only has 60 rpm (rate of fire is correct) it would be easier to evade for a moving target than say a 72-K or 37mm Flak 36/37, at least in theory.

 

About being a clip fed gun, usually loaders are able to feed a new clip before it empties the previous one, that's why they can fire more than what a single clip carries. The 61-K with it's 5 round clip fires a 50 round burst before entering a cooldown period of 5 seconds. The Flak 36/37 has a 6 round clip, and it fires a 20 round burst, before entering cooldown for 5 seconds.

 

I don't know what determines how many rounds are fired before cooldown (barrel overheating I guess?).

Edited December 14, 2017 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[6./ZG26_Custard]

I would like to see which planes are the ones mostly shot down by the 61-K

 

According to TAW's own stats the K-61 has made mincemeat of  of 862 LW aircraft and killed 302 pilots, compare that to the Flak 37 with just 50 VVS aircraft downed and 26 pilots lost.

 

While I understand that we are dealing with a dynamic online environment it appears from the links that Klaus copied:

 

 

 

Flak AI "normal" is God Mode. Even at low Skill Level the AA is still about twice as effective as historic statistics.    https://forum.il2stu...ut-range/page-3

 

 

 

 

that setting AAA AI higher than the lowest level is pretty much overkill.    

Edited December 14, 2017 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[216th_Jordan]

 

that setting AAA AI higher than the lowest level is pretty much overkill.    

 

I find normal acceptable still but high is definitely too much.

[FTC_DerSheriff]

Guys, can u pls drop that rule that Scores dont count when you have a disconnect. Its so frustrating. Imho you punish way more legit players than you punish cheaters.

I have some issues with my ISP recently I cant fix myself and I just had 3 Kills and in my landing approach I had a disconnect.
I can understand to drop the kills and count a death when disconnecting when getting damaged. So dont get me wrong.