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Porkins

IL-2 Pacific Campaign Ideas

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I read speculation in another thread that the Pacific may be considered after BoM. If true, I would be very excited. There are tons of possibilities for a Pacific campaign. Some ideas:

 

- Location. Tons of possibilities. Guadalcanal, Philippines, Solomon Islands campaign, all would see plenty of action on land, sea, and air.

 

- Allied Planes:

 

- Wildcat (fighter)

- P-38 Lightening (heavy fighter)

- Helldiver (dive bomber)

- Avenger (torpedo plane)

- B-17 Flying Fortress (heavy bomber)

 

- Japanese Planes:

 

- Zero (fighter)

- Nick (heavy fighter)

- Judy (dive bomber)

- Kate (torpedo plane)

- Betty (twin engine bomber)

 

I'd love to learn to fly all of these planes across the blue ocean and tropical islands of the Pacific!

Edited by Porkins

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Not rure that mix of 1942/1943 that IMHO wouldt work.  To be more IMHO keep planes in the same time frame.  Also, for a tactical game, not sure that the B17 really fits, nevermind the difficulty of modeling it.

 

1942:

Wildcat, Dauntless, Devestator, P39, B25

 

1943:

Hellcat, Helldiver, Avenger, P38, B26

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I love the Pacific theater but I'm doubtful that the next installment would go there (I'm pretty happy with the East Front right now IMHO). But let's talk planes. You've picked an interesting mix of aircraft that did not operate next to each other very much and they aren't too specific to any battles.

 

If the Pacific was the theater that came next then I'd hope it was something focused like the Guadalcanal campaign and the early fight up and down the Solomon Island's chain. Wildcat, Dauntless, P-40F (maybe?), B-25 and P-39. Japan would have the A6M2, D3A1, B5N2, G4M1-11 and Ki-43-I.

 

The biggest issue here is flight distances. So the other option would be a New Guinea campaign with more Army oriented aircraft and slightly shorter distances. I know lots of people would want Midway but its a 4 day battle and to make this work we'd need something with more persistence.

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Still gonna argue for the Dauntless over Helldiver. The Dauntless served well into 1944 and was present for every major USN/IJN engagement until it was finally replaced. No need to spend design cycles on the Helldiver unless we get a Push for the Home Islands scenario.

 

I'm with Aero on the B25 over the B17. Maybe the A20 works here as well. I think Jason said to not expect four engine bombers for a number of reasons.

 

I'm iffy on the Avenger but who wants to fly the Devestator for more than one mission (insert irony here.)?

 

Should probably be an Oscar on this list somewhere.

 

When did the Judy replace the Val IRL?

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Guilty as charged regarding my airplane selection. I picked 5 planes for each that are cool and roughly match up with each other in capability (although the Japanese really can't match the B-17) without much regard for whether they faced each other in the same campaign.

 

Could totally see replacing the B-17 with the B-25. Though I'm afraid to fly one after reading Unbroken. ;)

 

Oscar probably is a better choice than the Nick. I'd still like to fly that Japanese twin engine fighter.

 

Agreed on Midway, it'd be great DLC. Then again, I'm not sure the IL-2 engine could field enough planes to really do the battle justice.

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You'd really want some seaplanes in a Pacific scenario.  The Aichi E13a and PBY were pretty much the mainstay for each nation.

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Still gonna argue for the Dauntless over Helldiver. The Dauntless served well into 1944 and was present for every major USN/IJN engagement until it was finally replaced. No need to spend design cycles on the Helldiver unless we get a Push for the Home Islands scenario.

 

I'm with Aero on the B25 over the B17. Maybe the A20 works here as well. I think Jason said to not expect four engine bombers for a number of reasons.

 

I'm iffy on the Avenger but who wants to fly the Devestator for more than one mission (insert irony here.)?

 

Should probably be an Oscar on this list somewhere.

 

When did the Judy replace the Val IRL?

 

Slow switchover in 1943 and 1944. The D4Y went through a couple of revisions until they had a semi-effective dive bomber replacement. Meanwhile the D3A2 soldiered on.

 

Guilty as charged regarding my airplane selection. I picked 5 planes for each that are cool and roughly match up with each other in capability (although the Japanese really can't match the B-17) without much regard for whether they faced each other in the same campaign.

 

Could totally see replacing the B-17 with the B-25. Though I'm afraid to fly one after reading Unbroken. ;)

 

Oscar probably is a better choice than the Nick. I'd still like to fly that Japanese twin engine fighter.

 

Agreed on Midway, it'd be great DLC. Then again, I'm not sure the IL-2 engine could field enough planes to really do the battle justice.

 

Unbroken was the story of a B-24 crew. :)

 

If we had a New Guinea campaign then the Ki-43 and Ki-45 would definitely be types to have along with the Ki-61. That'd be the bulk of the Japanese Army fighter force (most of it being Ki-43 with less of the other two).

Edited by ShamrockOneFive

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Off by just one number!

You'd really want some seaplanes in a Pacific scenario.  The Aichi E13a and PBY were pretty much the mainstay for each nation.

I love the idea of seaplanes. Not sure what they'd do. I thought they were primarily recon and sub hunting. Sub hunting would be fun if the devs went to the trouble of summing submarine warfare. Probably a tall order though.

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In MP for example, the location of where other players bailed out or ditched could be displayed as an icon on the map. Seaplanes could 'fetch them' for points.

Edited by Feathered_IV
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The biggest issue here is flight distances.

 

What? You are not looking forward to those 5-hour missions?

 

But yes, I think with long missions I would have to fight divorce more than the enemy ;)

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What? You are not looking forward to those 5-hour missions?

 

But yes, I think with long missions I would have to fight divorce more than the enemy ;)

Cut and pasted my response from another thread.........................

 

 

I'm not sure why flight times are so often used to discount the PTO here. It is a a sim/game. You can drop an airstart wherever you want, drop an airfield on any sprite of an island or God forbid...............drop an AIRCRAFT CARRIER absolutely anywhere. Purely historical missions are thusfar mostly absent in this sim anyway. PTO has a variety of options and landscapes depending on the master map decisions. I'm not necessarilly advocating PTO but this argument is pretty thin.

 

And flying boats carry torpedoes or bombs. Probably an Emily or H6K for the IJN as opposed to an E13 except we bump into that four engine thing again. I desperately want to fly the PBY in this engine and with these water effects.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf

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Sure, but Henderson > Munda is 1:15 one way at cruise speed, Henderson > Rabaul is 2:30. Of course you could have air-spawned Zeroes approaching Henderson, and you sit in a Wildcat and scramble. No cruise required.

 

But one of the great things a sim like BoS gives us is the ability to re-enact how it felt to fly back in those days. Aviators in the PTO were dealing with the need to cover vast expanses of water, so having to fly over water for an hour or two before I see action would really give me an idea of the kind of mission that was flown routinely by aviators in that area.

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I certainly don't have a problem with maps that big or allowing designers to design that type of mission. I'm just saying it is not the type most online flyers are probably looking for and there are ways to design maps around it. There are many who are using the "too far, too much water," argument against a PTO expansion and it is not valid.

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What? You are not looking forward to those 5-hour missions?

 

But yes, I think with long missions I would have to fight divorce more than the enemy ;)

 

I've seen people complain that Dover/Calais is too far for them.  Presumably even they would be satisfied with aircraft carriers that could be placed as close together as they want.

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 Sub hunting would be fun if the devs went to the trouble of summing submarine warfare. Probably a tall order though.

I don't think it would be such a tall order, remember they had subs in ROF, with seaplanes taking on sub-hunt missions and recce.

 

Mick. :)

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Would love to see the PTO.

 

As to plane/map mix, you can look at IL2 Pacific Fighters.

 

Maps like Midway and Marianas are not that hard to build since there is very little land. In a pinch, you could simulate most CV battles with a plain ocean map.

 

On flight times, Rabaul-Guadalcanal and back could take up to 9 hours since Zeros flew at the lowest power setting to conserve fuel. You could do it in real time in CFS2.

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Weird choice, long time ago I went through various books to find something unique and cool in the same time. As usual it was for 1942-1943 New Guinea and what I came up was this :

 

Japanese            Americans

A6M2                    P-39D

Ki-43-II                  Spitfire Vc/trop

D4Y1                     Vultee A-31 Vengeance or TBF Avenger 

Ki-21                     B-26    

Special aircraft

Ki-61-I                   P-38 G

 

That like BoS setup, 2 fighters + 1 dive bomber + 1 twin engine bomber + 1 special aircraft (fighter). Of course it has its limitations, to get full grasp of such scenario limit of machines per expansion would have to go to 7 vs 7 at least, so that there could be added Beaufighter Ic, Ki-45, B5N and TBD to get maximum variety of missions. But thats not possible I guess. Unless second expansion would follow, than one could add A6M3, P-47 D, G4M and so on ... One game for even a single theater is not enough in case of Pacific :)

 

As for the map, I always advertise New Guinea - distances between Lea, Port Moresby, Buna, Goodenough Island, Milne Bay and so on ... You can even throw there carriers if you wish :)

oTpOiE.jpg

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi
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Why the Spitfire Vc (Trop)? I love Spitfires and sure it was in the theatre but its combat time was limited (to the absolute best of my knowledge) to the defense of Australia. Some were moved forward later but they never saw air combat at that stage.

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Not exactly, while the air raids in mid 1943 on Darwin continued a RAAF No. 79 Squadron was moved to Goodenough Island in early June, they achieved no success but nonetheless they tried to intercept Ki-46 recce and air defense sorties. Later on they were moved to Kiriwina ( Trobriand Islands ) where it operated alongside the P-40 Kittyhawk-equipped No. 76 Squadron. First weeks there were equally disappointing to the pilots, until October when they shot down (or claimed shot down) first Ki-61. So Spitfires while not in great numbers (greater than Mc. 202 over Moscow ^^) were present there and hence why I figured it would be cool to include them.  

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I agree a Spitfire looks odd in the US lineup. I'd rather swap it with the P-38's special aircraft slot.

 

Classics like the Hellcat, TBF Avenger, Dauntless, B5N, D3A Aichi Val ect are a must have definetly. I'd be happier about more special aircraft appearing in later addons rather than in the firts place.

 

Travel distances are much irrelevant in the PTO because of the fact we have aircraft carriers. Mission designers could place them wherever they want on the map and create nice areas with seabattles or land invasions on nearby island. Imagine a server where both teams have to sink the enemy fleet in a joint team effort. That would be a totally different expirience than BoS or BoM.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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I agree a Spitfire looks odd in the US lineup. I'd rather swap it with the P-38's special aircraft slot.

Makes no difference at the end. And not to forget, New Guinea was not only exclusively American effort but also multiple Australian, Dutch and British pilots were there. Hence a bit mixed setup. 

 

 

 

Travel distances are much irrelevant in the PTO because of the fact we have aircraft carriers. Mission designers could place them wherever they want on the map and create nice areas with seabattles or land invasions on nearby island. Imagine a server where both teams have to sink the enemy fleet in a joint team effort. That would be a totally different expirience than BoS or BoM.

That would require a very high level of co-ordination. 

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I would jump all over the PTO! I think a Guadalcanal setting would be appropriate since it was a longer campaign compared to some of the initial battles of the war. There is potential to grow from there to the other battles later in the war. I'm betting the maps would look like a beautiful paradise with the BOS engine.

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I agree a Spitfire looks odd in the US lineup. I'd rather swap it with the P-38's special aircraft slot.

 

Classics like the Hellcat, TBF Avenger, Dauntless, B5N, D3A Aichi Val ect are a must have definetly. I'd be happier about more special aircraft appearing in later addons rather than in the firts place.

 

Travel distances are much irrelevant in the PTO because of the fact we have aircraft carriers. Mission designers could place them wherever they want on the map and create nice areas with seabattles or land invasions on nearby island. Imagine a server where both teams have to sink the enemy fleet in a joint team effort. That would be a totally different expirience than BoS or BoM.

 

Transit times/travel distances and fuel consumption,  played a big part of Pacific operations...to ignore this part/factor, would kind of ruin the strategic aspect, and the resultant tactical operations (only talking historical)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Weird choice, long time ago I went through various books to find something unique and cool in the same time. As usual it was for 1942-1943 New Guinea and what I came up was this :

 

Japanese            Americans

A6M2                    P-39D

Ki-43-II                  Spitfire Vc/trop

D4Y1                     Vultee A-31 Vengeance or TBF Avenger 

Ki-21                     B-26    

Special aircraft

Ki-61-I                   P-38 G

 

That like BoS setup, 2 fighters + 1 dive bomber + 1 twin engine bomber + 1 special aircraft (fighter). Of course it has its limitations, to get full grasp of such scenario limit of machines per expansion would have to go to 7 vs 7 at least, so that there could be added Beaufighter Ic, Ki-45, B5N and TBD to get maximum variety of missions. But thats not possible I guess. Unless second expansion would follow, than one could add A6M3, P-47 D, G4M and so on ... One game for even a single theater is not enough in case of Pacific :)

 

As for the map, I always advertise New Guinea - distances between Lea, Port Moresby, Buna, Goodenough Island, Milne Bay and so on ... You can even throw there carriers if you wish :)

oTpOiE.jpg

 

 

I would keep this map but orient the setting to Early February  1942.  Your planeset is a bit all over the place in terms of being a comprehensive representation of the war in 1943.  We need a building block approach rather than a shotgun start...The G4M1 would be a more representative twin engine bomber than the Ki-21 Sally though they were on hand in '43.  While I love the IJAAF planes the battle in New Guinea was primarily a Navy one for the Japanese and a '42 planeset wouldn't see the IJAAFs arrive until Dec 18 1942. 

 

Likewise the Vultee Vengeance was a minor (very) participant, though I love that Plane...it would be more suited to a Burma Campaign, but the SBD or TBF would be more appropriate.

 

Spitfire, cool, but somewhat out of place given the Plane-set tendencies of the Devs.

 

I would call my submission to a Pacific Release IL-2 Sturmovik:  BATTLE OF PORT MORESBY, and it would be set in February 1942 to roughly Summer (June)of 1942, depending on whether the Maps released would include the Solomons.  Pie in the sky, I know, but that would be awesome...

 

Planeset for BoPM:

 

Japanese                             Allies

 

A6M2-21 Zero                     P-39D/P-400 (enabled by unlocks)

G4M1 Betty                        B-26B  Marauder  (thought B-17E would be appropriate 4Es are off the table)

D3A1 Val                           SBD-2/3 Dauntless  (Navy and Army A-24s that were based at PM at the time)

B5N2 Kate                         F4F-3  / perhaps an unlock for the F4F-4...perfect

                                              Good news is we already have the P-40E  (76 Sqdn RAAF)

Premium

 

Kawanishi Type 97           TBD Devastator

if 4Es are on table

G3M Nell if not

 

Other Battles

 

Lae-Salamaua Raids   (Carrier Strikes across Owen Stanelys)

Coral Sea                  (Map would need to be extended to the SE quite a bit)

Milne Bay

Bismarck Sea              (eventually)

Guadalcanal               (if Devs could be convinced to make a Solomons map otherwise the NEXT PTO release!)

 

With this planeset you have everything you need to fight battles up to Gudalcanal, and if the Devs were convinced to release a 2nd bonus Map with lots of water and a single Island you'd have the Battle of Midway as well.  Obviously Ships and CVs would be required...perhaps some third party 3d Modelers could be employed?

Transit times/travel distances and fuel consumption,  played a big part of Pacific operations...to ignore this part/factor, would kind of ruin the strategic aspect, and the resultant tactical operations (only talking historical)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

This line of reasoning is bogus.  1946 did the Pacific Just fine, not to mention several Maps in Western Europe for Strategic Bombing and the Med too.  Just another Red Herring from the EFOC  (East Front Only Crowd).  

Edited by TheElf

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I would keep this map but orient the setting to Early February  1942.

Ekhem, than there would be little to nothing. Navy had almost no forces in the area. On 10th March US Navy operating from carriers pulled a strike of over 100 aircraft to hit the newly built installations as well as ships with forces but all they met was AA and few Type 95 seaplanes. It wasn't until the April that Tainan Ku was moved to the area (being officially assigned to the 25th Kokusentai on April 1st), first operation against Port Moresby was carried on April 5th. 

 

Your planeset is a bit all over the place in terms of being a comprehensive representation of the war in 1943.  We need a building block approach rather than a shotgun start...

Well yes, the setup is mainly representing early 1943 but starting with 1942 A6M2 and P-39. Dont see any problem with that, such setup allows to cover late 1942 to mid 1943 with Japanese offensives (Kokoda and Milne Bay) to Allied offensives. 

 

The G4M1 would be a more representative twin engine bomber than the Ki-21 Sally though they were on hand in '43. 

Makes no difference to me, but I figured Ki-21 would be more appropriate due  to higher payloads it could carry. Same for D4Y1, making it equal in carried ordnance to SBD.

 

While I love the IJAAF planes the battle in New Guinea was primarily a Navy one for the Japanese and a '42 planeset wouldn't see the IJAAFs arrive until Dec 18 1942. 

Hence why I tried to pick time frame when forces switched and tides turned.

 

Spitfire, cool, but somewhat out of place given the Plane-set tendencies of the Devs.

No more than FW-190 A-3 or Mc 202 in terms of presence in given operation.

 

February 1942 to roughly Summer (June)of 1942

That doesnt even cover the given theater. Tainan was fully committed to the area by August when US invasion on Guadalcanal went on, and even after it was split between the areas, in fact remaining (at least one detachment) until November 1942. But early Summer (June) is way to short.

 

Planeset for BoPM:

 

Japanese                             Allies

 

A6M2-21 Zero                     P-39D/P-400 (enabled by unlocks)

G4M1 Betty                        B-26B  Marauder  (thought B-17E would be appropriate 4Es are off the table)

D3A1 Val                           SBD-2/3 Dauntless  (Navy and Army A-24s that were based at PM at the time)

B5N2 Kate                         F4F-3  / perhaps an unlock for the F4F-4...perfect

                                              Good news is we already have the P-40E  (76 Sqdn RAAF)

Premium

 

Kawanishi Type 97           TBD Devastator

if 4Es are on table

G3M Nell if not

That set breaks the typical settings one sees - 2 fighters + 1 dive bomber / attacker + 1 medium bomber + 1 Special aircraft (a fighter). Americans would end up with three types of fighters against a single A6M2, from a gameplay point of view that would be very limiting. In late July 1942 first A6M3 model 32s arrived in the area making it at least two types. And Special aircraft are terrible, dont see anyone throwing money for them (after all they are special and sold as such, hence P-40, Mc 202, FW-190, La-5). 

 

With this planeset you have everything you need to fight battles up to Gudalcanal, and if the Devs were convinced to release a 2nd bonus Map with lots of water and a single Island you'd have the Battle of Midway as well.  Obviously Ships and CVs would be required...perhaps some third party 3d Modelers could be employed?

This planeset as well as whole idea is limited to a part of whole campaign, when you look at the BoS or BoM its rather a whole campaign portrayed - with certain operations as a chapters, hence Summer campaign, Operation Urans, Air bridge and desperate counterattacks of Germans, Winter Storm and at the end Operation Saturn. 

Whole campaign. 

 

This line of reasoning is bogus.  1946 did the Pacific Just fine, not to mention several Maps in Western Europe for Strategic Bombing and the Med too.  Just another Red Herring from the EFOC  (East Front Only Crowd).  

I'd say that they did it way worse than few years older Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 2, especially for the Japanese part. It was then mod teams that gave it a new life with a lot more aircraft introduced and some changes to the flight models.  

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi

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1 --  Ekhem, than there would be little to nothing. Navy had almost no forces in the area. On 10th March US Navy operating from carriers pulled a strike of over 100 aircraft to hit the newly built installations as well as ships with forces but all they met was AA and few Type 95 seaplanes. It wasn't until the April that Tainan Ku was moved to the area (being officially assigned to the 25th Kokusentai on April 1st), first operation against Port Moresby was carried on April 5th. 

 

Well yes, the setup is mainly representing early 1943 but starting with 1942 A6M2 and P-39. Dont see any problem with that, such setup allows to cover late 1942 to mid 1943 with Japanese offensives (Kokoda and Milne Bay) to Allied offensives. 

 

Makes no difference to me, but I figured Ki-21 would be more appropriate due  to higher payloads it could carry. Same for D4Y1, making it equal in carried ordnance to SBD.

 

Hence why I tried to pick time frame when forces switched and tides turned.

 

No more than FW-190 A-3 or Mc 202 in terms of presence in given operation.

 

2--   That doesnt even cover the given theater. Tainan was fully committed to the area by August when US invasion on Guadalcanal went on, and even after it was split between the areas, in fact remaining (at least one detachment) until November 1942. But early Summer (June) is way to short.

 

3---That set breaks the typical settings one sees - 2 fighters + 1 dive bomber / attacker + 1 medium bomber + 1 Special aircraft (a fighter). Americans would end up with three types of fighters against a single A6M2, from a gameplay point of view that would be very limiting. In late July 1942 first A6M3 model 32s arrived in the area making it at least two types. And Special aircraft are terrible, dont see anyone throwing money for them (after all they are special and sold as such, hence P-40, Mc 202, FW-190, La-5). 

 

4---This planeset as well as whole idea is limited to a part of whole campaign, when you look at the BoS or BoM its rather a whole campaign portrayed - with certain operations as a chapters, hence Summer campaign, Operation Urans, Air bridge and desperate counterattacks of Germans, Winter Storm and at the end Operation Saturn. 

Whole campaign. 

 

I'd say that they did it way worse than few years older Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 2, especially for the Japanese part. It was then mod teams that gave it a new life with a lot more aircraft introduced and some changes to the flight models.  

 

In response to # 1

 

Correct, which is why I said February to June 1942.  While the air action was light in February, the Battle of Port Moresby in fact started with the invasion of Rabaul by the Japanese in February.  Additionally I alluded to the Possibility of being able to fly the February Lae-Salamaua Raid which occurred in February.  Yes I know there was little Air to Air action in that raid ,but it occurred and it would be possible to fly it on this map in this period.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter when you start the battle, but after February is when it takes place.  You have to start somewhere, so lets not nitpick ok?  If you un-wad your panties, I'll say March...lol  :P

 

In addition to the portions of Kido Butai allocated to Operation MO, the invasion of Port Moresby also saw the deployment of the 25th Air Fleet.  Preliminaries for this began in Late March 1942 with the deployment of RAAF No. 75 Squadron on P-40Es and they claimed 35 Japanese planes destroyed against IJNAFs until May when Operation MO began.

 

By 31 March, the Australians were joined by the American 8th Bombardment Squadron with A-24 bombers and for two weeks in May by six P-39 Airacobras of the American 36th Pursuit Squadron. Despite the American assistance, the daily air battles over and around Port Moresby by 1 May had reduced No. 75 Squadron RAAF to just three airworthy machines. The American 35th, and the full 36th, Pursuit Squadrons arrived to relieve the Australian squadron. During their time in Port Moresby 75 Squadron had lost 21 aircraft and 12 pilots. The Battle of the Coral Sea, which was fought mostly in the waters south-east of Papua in early May, diverted a Japanese naval attack against Port Moresby and removed the immediate threat. By May 1942 the Japanese had established themselves in the arc of islands north and east of the island of New Guinea as well as in the region around Lae and Madang on the north coast of the mainland

 

Supporting the Naval invasion force which included elements of the Kido Butai including Shokaku, Zuikaku, and their attached Air groups, was the 25th Air Fleet, (Yokohama Air Corps) based in Rabaul, Lae, Salamaua, Buna and Deboyne Island, composed of 60 A6M2 "Zero" fighters, 48 G3M "Nell", 26 Aichi E13A "Jake" and F1M "Pete" reconnaissance seaplanes. This unit bombed Port Moresby on 5–6 May, ahead of the Japanese Army-Navy landing on 7 May.

 

And all this DURING the period I suggested the BoPM covers...

 

# 2  

Who said anything about Tainan Ku?  But you are incorrect, Tainan Ku arrived in April 1942 at Rabaul and Lae with ~25 Zeroes and ~ 6 A5M4s.  From April 1942 to July they flew 51 missions claiming 300 and losing 20 of their own.  Saburo Sakai made the flight from Rabaul to LAe on 8 April and flew his first Combat on 17 April. I would be ALL FOR including the rest of the So. Pac. but I think even I have to concede that Guadalcanal would be too much...I'd love to be wrong, but the point of this would be to get a foothold in the Pacific not necessarily replicate EVERYTHING Tainan Ku did.  I'd be very happy if they did it though as I agree with you in principle... :wacko:  

 

# 3

 

Lets not be so rigid.  I don't think the "formula" matters as much as the aircraft that were actually participating in a battle at the same time.

 

# 4

 

Sorry, I would argue that the Defense of Port Moresby even without the Battle of the Coral Sea is an entire Campaign, and a VERY important one at that, covering a period of 4-6 months just like BoS or BoM...not sure what the issue is here, but I disagree with your opinion. Cheers 

Edited by TheElf

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A Pacific theater wouldn't be the Pacific without the Dauntless.

 

As for the B-17, it'd depend what year. B-17's were in the Pacific from 1941-43 before being replaced by B-24's, they were even on Midway.

 

I'd take the B-26 over the B-25 as well.

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A Pacific theater wouldn't be the Pacific without the Dauntless.

 

As for the B-17, it'd depend what year. B-17's were in the Pacific from 1941-43 before being replaced by B-24's, they were even on Midway.

 

I'd take the B-26 over the B-25 as well.

 

Yeah, the B-17E would be perfect for this time period, but Someone said 4 engine planes weren't likely to be done for some time.  Not sure what the limitation would be, since the are 4 engine planes in ROF...?

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As I understand it, the four engine limitation is based, at least in part, on complexity of the AC itself and more importantly the complexity of the AI for so many crew responsibilities/positions. I'm sure this is a slight oversimplification.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf

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B-17 s played no significant part in the pacific so I don't think it should be included in the planeset (althiugh its a very interesting aircraft and I'd love to have it at some point). Strategic bombers are overall a difficult topic since BoS is by no means optimised for long range / high altitude bombardments nor big bomber formations.

 

B-25 on the other hand would be well suited in my opinion, even more the navy variants with anti ship weapons.

 

Another alternative could be the Catalina, another plane I'm really looking forward to flying in a pacific scenario.

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The Catalina would be great. So iconic!

Every time I see P-38, P-39, P-47, P-51, F4F, F6F, F4U and so on ... someone calls it iconic plane. By the end of the list there are no non-iconic planes  :lol:

 

 

In response to # 1

 

Correct, which is why I said February to June 1942.  While the air action was light in February, the Battle of Port Moresby in fact started with the invasion of Rabaul by the Japanese in February.  Additionally I alluded to the Possibility of being able to fly the February Lae-Salamaua Raid which occurred in February.  Yes I know there was little Air to Air action in that raid ,but it occurred and it would be possible to fly it on this map in this period.  At the end of the day it doesn't matter when you start the battle, but after February is when it takes place.  You have to start somewhere, so lets not nitpick ok?  If you un-wad your panties, I'll say March...lol  :P

 

In addition to the portions of Kido Butai allocated to Operation MO, the invasion of Port Moresby also saw the deployment of the 25th Air Fleet.  Preliminaries for this began in Late March 1942 with the deployment of RAAF No. 75 Squadron on P-40Es and they claimed 35 Japanese planes destroyed against IJNAFs until May when Operation MO began.

 

By 31 March, the Australians were joined by the American 8th Bombardment Squadron with A-24 bombers and for two weeks in May by six P-39 Airacobras of the American 36th Pursuit Squadron. Despite the American assistance, the daily air battles over and around Port Moresby by 1 May had reduced No. 75 Squadron RAAF to just three airworthy machines. The American 35th, and the full 36th, Pursuit Squadrons arrived to relieve the Australian squadron. During their time in Port Moresby 75 Squadron had lost 21 aircraft and 12 pilots. The Battle of the Coral Sea, which was fought mostly in the waters south-east of Papua in early May, diverted a Japanese naval attack against Port Moresby and removed the immediate threat. By May 1942 the Japanese had established themselves in the arc of islands north and east of the island of New Guinea as well as in the region around Lae and Madang on the north coast of the mainland

 

Supporting the Naval invasion force which included elements of the Kido Butai including Shokaku, Zuikaku, and their attached Air groups, was the 25th Air Fleet, (Yokohama Air Corps) based in Rabaul, Lae, Salamaua, Buna and Deboyne Island, composed of 60 A6M2 "Zero" fighters, 48 G3M "Nell", 26 Aichi E13A "Jake" and F1M "Pete" reconnaissance seaplanes. This unit bombed Port Moresby on 5–6 May, ahead of the Japanese Army-Navy landing on 7 May.

 

And all this DURING the period I suggested the BoPM covers...

 

# 2  

Who said anything about Tainan Ku?  But you are incorrect, Tainan Ku arrived in April 1942 at Rabaul and Lae with ~25 Zeroes and ~ 6 A5M4s.  From April 1942 to July they flew 51 missions claiming 300 and losing 20 of their own.  Saburo Sakai made the flight from Rabaul to LAe on 8 April and flew his first Combat on 17 April. I would be ALL FOR including the rest of the So. Pac. but I think even I have to concede that Guadalcanal would be too much...I'd love to be wrong, but the point of this would be to get a foothold in the Pacific not necessarily replicate EVERYTHING Tainan Ku did.  I'd be very happy if they did it though as I agree with you in principle... :wacko:  

 

# 3

 

Lets not be so rigid.  I don't think the "formula" matters as much as the aircraft that were actually participating in a battle at the same time.

 

# 4

 

Sorry, I would argue that the Defense of Port Moresby even without the Battle of the Coral Sea is an entire Campaign, and a VERY important one at that, covering a period of 4-6 months just like BoS or BoM...not sure what the issue is here, but I disagree with your opinion. Cheers 

*1 - Well, some place and time to start should be when all major bases in New Guinea has been establish, so when Lae became functional. But whatever, lets not be nitpicking, after all its still speculation. 

 

*2 - I said, setting campaign in New Guinea in 1942 without having Tainan in mind is not even possible. 

And not sure where I was wrong, Tainan as pointed "It wasn't until the April that Tainan Ku was moved to the area (being officially assigned to the 25th Kokusentai on April 1st), first operation against Port Moresby was carried on April 5th. "

They remained fully committed to the operations in the area until Guadalcanals invasion, when they basically had to cover two areas. But even as late as October-November they were present in NG. 

 

Well, I wanted to grasp a bit of 1942 and go full scale with 1943 which had a massive impact on events in New Guinea area. 

 

*3 - Well, developers could easily pick another variant of Ju 87 instead of Emil or F-2. Or as a special aircraft there could have been some Italian bomber or Romanian PZL P-37. But for some reason this template was repeated in BoM.  

 

*4 - I am not sure what is here to explain. I simply tried to tell you that what you propose is an element of big puzzle - aerial battle over Port Moresby was only a part of campaign in New Guinea in 1942. And like its easy to see, in Battle of Stalingrad all small elements make one campaign. So if you really would insist it would rather be Battle for New Guinea, including support on Kokoda trail, Port Moresby, Milne Bay, Buna-Gona and so on.

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B-17 s played no significant part in the pacific so I don't think it should be included in the planeset (althiugh its a very interesting aircraft and I'd love to have it at some point). Strategic bombers are overall a difficult topic since BoS is by no means optimised for long range / high altitude bombardments nor big bomber formations.

 

B-25 on the other hand would be well suited in my opinion, even more the navy variants with anti ship weapons.

 

Another alternative could be the Catalina, another plane I'm really looking forward to flying in a pacific scenario.

 

 

Not true.  B-17s were the mainstay of the Pacific Bomber force in early 1942 and the defense of Port Moresby.  Certainly not on the scale of the 8th Air Force in Europe, but B-17s in fact did raid Rabaul as they were one of the few Aircraft with the range to get there and theoretically, they could defend themselves.  LONG before they gained fame in England, they were battling it out against the Japanese.  To leave them out would be like leaving out the He-111 at Stalingrad

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Every time I see P-38, P-39, P-47, P-51, F4F, F6F, F4U and so on ... someone calls it iconic plane. By the end of the list there are no non-iconic planes  :lol:

 

 

*1 - Well, some place and time to start should be when all major bases in New Guinea has been establish, so when Lae became functional. But whatever, lets not be nitpicking, after all its still speculation. 

 

*2 - I said, setting campaign in New Guinea in 1942 without having Tainan in mind is not even possible. 

And not sure where I was wrong, Tainan as pointed "It wasn't until the April that Tainan Ku was moved to the area (being officially assigned to the 25th Kokusentai on April 1st), first operation against Port Moresby was carried on April 5th. "

They remained fully committed to the operations in the area until Guadalcanals invasion, when they basically had to cover two areas. But even as late as October-November they were present in NG. 

 

Well, I wanted to grasp a bit of 1942 and go full scale with 1943 which had a massive impact on events in New Guinea area. 

 

*3 - Well, developers could easily pick another variant of Ju 87 instead of Emil or F-2. Or as a special aircraft there could have been some Italian bomber or Romanian PZL P-37. But for some reason this template was repeated in BoM.  

 

*4 - I am not sure what is here to explain. I simply tried to tell you that what you propose is an element of big puzzle - aerial battle over Port Moresby was only a part of campaign in New Guinea in 1942. And like its easy to see, in Battle of Stalingrad all small elements make one campaign. So if you really would insist it would rather be Battle for New Guinea, including support on Kokoda trail, Port Moresby, Milne Bay, Buna-Gona and so on.

 

1 -- I tend to like to start at the beginning of things.  So I favor the earliest start.  In reality it doesn't matter because all you need is the map and the planes.  Mission Makers will do the rest.

 

2 -- in # 2 above you said Tainan wasn't fully committed until August as a supporting statement.  I took that to mean that you thought there was little fighting done by Tainan Ku prior to that.  I was just responding to that point

 

3 -- They could but wow what a waste of a full development cycle.  They really need to cover minor variant changes in a Variant Add-on Pack

 

4 -- Well color me a fan of Guadalcanal.  As I said before I am a fan of do things from the beginning.  I'd like to see all early war releases that are congruent with the current 2 Eastern Front Releases in terms of setting and Aircraft technology.  I think this is important to the larger franchise in terms of consistency and a building block approach.  I think Guadalcanal would be fantastic and if the Devs were inclined to do the whole map to inlcude the Solomons, then I would consider that a huge victory for the PTO fans.  With my planeset you could absolutely play GC all you really need is the map...And if they go there, I don't care what you call it or what date you "set" it in.  Again the mission makers will fill in those holes.

 

As far as a Campaign, yes Guadalcanal is part of the campaign, but you have to make a logical break somewhere given the current Dev release pattern.

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I also think Guadalcanal would make the most sense. Geographically large, but limited in scope. A long running campaign (as opposed to a single battle like Midway) that ebbed and flowed, and most importantly plenty of air/ground/naval action for the devs to work with in crafting a campaign.

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I also think Guadalcanal would make the most sense.

It would also be the hardest to fly, even when you cut down distances with closes airfields it is still very hard to navigate.  

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