72AG-DED- Random Expert +

[Lusekofte]

Personally I am happy for the JU 52 on the russian side, This way I can stick tu Red side and do not have to switch side. But there is a skin problem. Might not be a solution for. Is there possibilities for adding skin on the mission download when entering server?

There is a need for a standard skin, easiest way would have a russian skin on custom skin pack so all could see what side it is on.

Messy with German skin on both sides, I agree to that

[Nil]

I agree with you LuseKofte, 

Usually I play German, but since there are often more German than Russian, I like to take Russian Tante Ju to make some balance.

[7.GShAP/Silas]

May I ask, why does the soviet side need the Ju-52 along with its missions? It just causes problems and feels quite unhistorical in my opinion.

 

Why not give the soviet side some extra ground targets or something else to make up for it. To have the exact same missions every time for both sides is kinda boring

 

 

I agree.

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

We can give the soviet side the He-111 or Ju-88 since they dont really have any big level bombers except Pe-2 

 

In my opinion if you want to fly a Bf-109 you go LW. If you want to fly an IL-2 you go VVS. If you want to fly a  Ju-52 you go LW. This game is about historical accuracy and this is not represented with a Russian Ju-52. Currently you just get teamkilled. Not only on the VVS side but confused LW fighters shoot you down as well when you are flying as a german and there is no skin which prevent that when you have VVS Ju-52s flying around with german markins. 

[Lusekofte]

 

 

This game is about historical accuracy

 

So the JU 87 D3 was equipped with 37 mm cannons in Stalingrad? USSR had the same in field modded IL2 ? 

There is taken liberties before so do not take that tone

 

I think the JU 52 should be available for both sides, I do not care if the Drop mission is there or not. I like to have it on supply missions. But only if there is a way to prevent russian side fly with Luftwaffe skin. That point is valid. I see no reason for not having it on both sides. Because it do not bring any advantage.

If there is no possibility to refuse LW skin, I agree, remove it from Russian side, it will only be misunderstandings and people will take somewhat advantage.

But for historical point it do not get much of a imagination to make it a russian plane, such a primitive gorgeous plane even smell Russian

[7.GShAP/Silas]

So the JU 87 D3 was equipped with 37 mm cannons in Stalingrad? USSR had the same in field modded IL2 ? 

There is taken liberties before so do not take that tone

 

I think the JU 52 should be available for both sides, I do not care if the Drop mission is there or not. I like to have it on supply missions. But only if there is a way to prevent russian side fly with Luftwaffe skin. That point is valid. I see no reason for not having it on both sides. Because it do not bring any advantage.

If there is no possibility to refuse LW skin, I agree, remove it from Russian side, it will only be misunderstandings and people will take somewhat advantage.

But for historical point it do not get much of a imagination to make it a russian plane, such a primitive gorgeous plane even smell Russian

 

 

There is a difference of degrees here.  The 37mm cannon is not so strange as an entire aircraft.

 

Regardless, I don't believe there is any way to prevent Soviet flyers taking Luftwaffe skins on their Ju-52s, nor is there a way to force everyone to have a Soviet skin downloaded for the Ju-52.

[Lusekofte]

 

 

I don't believe there is any way to prevent Soviet flyers taking Luftwaffe skins on their Ju-52s,

 

This is what I feared, it is not enough that those flying the JU 52 having the Russian Skin, it is needed for those hunting it too, Then I agree with you . It is just a mess having it on both sides 

[Nil]

Dear MckVack, I understand your point, but please do not use this tone. It is supposed to be courteous, not this way.

Both sides have valid points, as Russian have NO transport (nothing to balance that), but there is the skin confusion (but some take the special skin to avoid that) and the "immersion matter".

Russian need a c47 or Li2.

We have to support mission makers, and that is why even thought I would like that Russian keep their transport, I like to the mission maker to leave the decision, and I accept it.

After all , they do the most difficult task.

 

When I did my drop mission with Russians, my wingman used the special skin.

 

I believe the special skin has to be locked for Russian, and the rest of the skins have to be locked for Germans. that way, no problems.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Nil

[Cathaoir]

curious as to why I keep getting kicked after taxi and take off on your normal server..Has happened 3-4 times in a row now...Stats show i had a disco....No did not happen....why disco with no active enemy around and just after takeoff....I get kicked to Multi server screen,,,Is it do to bad ping?  Like the server but the taxi and take off takes time and to be thrown out....well If bad connection so be it...but I have completed 1 mission without issue....Are there also limits on what planes you  can fly?   Or is it setup like the expert server....If so then that is probably the problem..... This is on the Random Normal server....Thanks

Edited December 27, 2016 by CATHAOIR

[Cathaoir]

Just tried again....same result....I have a mapping to give me CEM witch I am using....Is this what is causing my problem?

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Just to add my two pennies worth. Not meaning to insult anyone but having a German aircraft with German Fallschirmjäger aboard, painted as a VVS transport so it can fly VVS missions is quite frankly absurd. Hopefully a VVS transport will eventually appear but I sincerely hope that common sense prevails and the 52 stays as it should on this server.

[IRRE_Genius]

Sorry to disagree with the vast majority of you, but balance is a problem if player do not want to change sides when necessary (However this requires a little time penalty).

 

When i see 45 vs 10, It does not make me want to go on the server...

[Lusekofte]

I have a huge problem understanding why you guys think it is a problem having the JU 52 on both sides, when there is only one, Livery .  Seen worse placeholders in old IL 2. My main problem is that the only one speaking on what to have is Luftwaffe side, and no matter what they got it is usually not good enough. I do not fly fighters, and I have only 2 planes to fly on Russian side. 

Right now I have a bloody hard time seeing why the hell you need to make a fuzz about Red flying JU 52, hurt your feelings for some reason. There is only one reason not having it on Russian side, and that is Skins, it is not possible to have a plane where you can choose to fly with enemy uniform. All other reasons made up here is just petty. You guys got it all and you might find yourself flying alone against AI the way things are going. 

[Nil]

Dear LuseKofte, I got your point, really,

To add more, Russian pilot seems to enjoy Tante Ju.

The thing is some people love this sim because it is more historically accurate than the previous ww2 sims. So for them, it is not realistic to be able to fly a tante Ju with Russian (althought VVS had some but did not used them for friendly fire issues) and the fact that German Paratroop inside use them.

It is kind of a "setback" for them I believe.

Because some people love this sim also because it is realistic, that contributes to their pleasure . Same issue for Swastika missing , for some people it is important to have them as it adds realism.

I think that every side has some valid points. Some are more focused on gameplay: being able to fly a transport on the Russian side, and some are more focused on the the realism: make a server more historical accurate.

The ideal would be to find a compromise for this situation I guess, 

I just hope that this issue can be turned into a constructive way to support the dev team for a C47 or a Li2

 

Meanwhile I would love to know the opinion on the Russian forum for that matter, because it should also be taken on consideration

Edited December 27, 2016 by Nil

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

I have a huge problem understanding why you guys think it is a problem having the JU 52 on both sides, when there is only one, Livery . Seen worse placeholders in old IL 2. My main problem is that the only one speaking on what to have is Luftwaffe side, and no matter what they got it is usually not good enough. I do not fly fighters, and I have only 2 planes to fly on Russian side. Right now I have a bloody hard time seeing why the hell you need to make a fuzz about Red flying JU 52, hurt your feelings for some reason. There is only one reason not having it on Russian side, and that is Skins, it is not possible to have a plane where you can choose to fly with enemy uniform. All other reasons made up here is just petty. You guys got it all and you might find yourself flying alone against AI the way things are going.

 

If you have a problem understanding why people may have issue with the VVS flying a German aircraft, then you may as well ask for a completely open aircraft set. Can you imagine a scenario where if the mood takes you the Luftwaffe can jump in IL2 or Yaks or alternatively Ivan can jump into an Emil or a G2. In others words in the realms of fantasy or an arcade game.

I am sure there are some folks that would like that but I would like to think the vast majority wouldn’t?

I can understand your frustration that you wish to fly transport mission but at the moment the VVS don’t have a dedicated transport aircraft. Maybe one day they will?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Lisunov Li-2 would do the trick :D

[Lusekofte]

You are wrong Custard, Auntie JU is one of a kind, it cannot be compared to anything else we got. She cannot do harm. How ever I do not fly BOS that much anymore that it will affect anything for me. But the two times I have flown online it has been supply missions with that bird. And you want for some odd reason, knowing you will not see one in your own line, it still ruin the game for you. We cannot have that.

Anyway I do fly FNBF and there is no use of it. I probably migrate to Axis when HS 129 come. Because that bird would not be right having on Red side. That is a totally different matter, I just do not agree with you regarding this plane

Lisunov Li-2 would do the trick :D

Yes that is true, I would not mind LI 2 or DC3/ C-47 but still I enjoy this short time flying JU

[6./ZG26_McKvack]

Alright I think the russian side needs a transport and ju 52 for them solves that question. I do not like it because of historical reasons but that is just my opinion and I will leave that.

 

However lets solve the blue on blue(or red on red?) issue. First of all it looks like a ju 52, a german transport plane. Nothing can change that. It is a german plane. The thing we can do is giving it a skin. Problem is here we do not have one(official) and no ingame mechanic to lock the VVS ju 52 to a VVS skin. To get this we need the devs who are already busy with a lot of things. Cant say if they are unable to do it atm since Im no dev but it would take time from them needed elsewhere and all this for a single server or 2. Not worth it in my opinion.

 

So the friendly fire issue is still there and I dont want to fly on a server in a german plane on the german side, being shot down by friendly fighters. Same if I would fly for the VVS. Even in your post Nil with pics there is a Yak on your ass

[IRRE_Alleluia]

I fly on both sides, but most of the time Vvs.

 

If i am on the red side, any ju52 without the special orange skin or the red one, named richtofen, is for me a valid target.

 

Every time i fly the Ju52 on the red side, i take the richtofen red, as i dont have the orange one.

 

I told this trick to a lot of french player, if it's a Ju and it's flashy, it should be considered as a russian plane.

 

If it has a normal german camo, it should be considered as german plane.

[Willy__]

 

 

+1,Custard! Painting red stars on a Ju 52 because there is no VVS Transport available atm. can not be the solution.Convincing the devs that you will buy a Li 2 if they create one sounds much better to me.

 

+2

 

If you want to fly the Tante Ju, just join the german side. 

[Lusekofte]

In this I do agree, if the skins cannot be locked. The JU 52 should not be on the Russian side. It is simply not doable. It  should not e possible to fly JU 52 on Russian side with German skin. 

And for my sake you can also remove the paratroopers from its load. I am just interested in the transport/ supply missions. It is too odd for me to drop German paratroopers. In this regard I also agree

+2

 

If you want to fly the Tante Ju, just join the german side. 

I think the German side is rather filled already

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

You are wrong Custard, Auntie JU is one of a kind, it cannot be compared to anything else we got. She cannot do harm. How ever I do not fly BOS that much anymore that it will affect anything for me. But the two times I have flown online it has been supply missions with that bird. And you want for some odd reason, knowing you will not see one in your own line, it still ruin the game for you. We cannot have that.

 

Thanks for letting me know I'm wrong Luse, I wondered why I had this niggling doubt at the back of my mind. I know its very odd to want to have a German aircraft to be flown by well.......Germans and I'm sorry if it ruins the game for you that the VVS don't currently have a transport aircraft and I suppose we can't have that either. To be honest I would rather they remove the 52 from the server than have the VVS flying it.

[VBF-12_Stele]

Here is a nice Russian Skin Just made by our friend Szelljr . Works only with turret because the updated template has not been released yet.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17317-ju-52-skins/?p=423885 It is "Russian2.dds"

 

 

+1 Nil. I've been using this as well.

[72AG_Crusader]

Using a users skin you will be seen with default skin by other players, who hasn't installed skin which you use.

In the other side. Its impossible to lock some defined users skin. Thats why we cant turn on skins locks.

 

In a historical way. I know, that it is some confusion to see german plane on the other side. But in fact Ju-52 was actually used a little by soviets too. About 30 aircrafts was in usage after battle of Stalingrad, when lots of german aircrafts was captured.

 

Games never will 100% realistic. You couldn't disagree. Because there are much unmodelable problems. For example like "fear of death" - IRL pilots are live people, who can fear, panic, tire, etc. 100% simulation never will be, its impossible.

Next point is a gameplay. We cannot simulate historical air battles on the server because of two reasons:

1. Technical. In fact, there was thousands of people, aircrafts, tanks, cannons, etc. We cannot put so much of this into the game. I could make a mission with 1000 tanks, but it wouldnt work. Also players limit is only 84.

2. Interesting gameplay experience. IRL pilots work on a war. Fighting is their job. They dont take aircraft like we do - "today I want 109 F-4, lets take it" . They has got order and a mission - no matter want they fly or not. And they work 24/7 to reach victory in a war. But we join server to relax, to feel a part of IRL-pilots experience. So, why dont let players of red side to relax and make drop missions?

[jaydee]

Using a users skin you will be seen with default skin by other players, who hasn't installed skin which you use.

In the other side. Its impossible to lock some defined users skin. Thats why we cant turn on skins locks.

 

In a historical way. I know, that it is some confusion to see german plane on the other side. But in fact Ju-52 was actually used a little by soviets too. About 30 aircrafts was in usage after battle of Stalingrad, when lots of german aircrafts was captured.

 

Games never will 100% realistic. You couldn't disagree. Because there are much unmodelable problems. For example like "fear of death" - IRL pilots are live people, who can fear, panic, tire, etc. 100% simulation never will be, its impossible.

Next point is a gameplay. We cannot simulate historical air battles on the server because of two reasons:

1. Technical. In fact, there was thousands of people, aircrafts, tanks, cannons, etc. We cannot put so much of this into the game. I could make a mission with 1000 tanks, but it wouldnt work. Also players limit is only 84.

2. Interesting gameplay experience. IRL pilots work on a war. Fighting is their job. They dont take aircraft like we do - "today I want 109 F-4, lets take it" . They has got order and a mission - no matter want they fly or not. And they work 24/7 to reach victory in a war. But we join server to relax, to feel a part of IRL-pilots experience. So, why dont let players of red side to relax and make drop missions?

 

So if I am Flying a IL 16 and I see A JU-52 Headon.  3 engines ! I cant Fire ? He Might be a "Made Up" Russian Paratroop Dropper to Keep things even ? Come-on DED. You have a great Server. Think about this Please.

[72AG_Crusader]

So if I am Flying a IL 16 and I see A JU-52 Headon.  3 engines ! I cant Fire ? He Might be a "Made Up" Russian Paratroop Dropper to Keep things even ? Come-on DED. You have a great Server. Think about this Please.

Why cant? You can! But you may ask in a chat if you dont sure.

[jaydee]

Why cant? You can! But you may ask in a chat if you dont sure.

 

So If I Cant Chat or have TS....I am in trouble ? I am  SP . I am Flying DED MP for the First Time ! I see a JU and don't know if I can Open Fire ?

regards ~S~

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Why cant? You can! But you may ask in a chat if you dont sure.

So here we go then . A flight of 5 VVS Yaks approach a flight of 3 fully laden 52s. “Hello 52s are you VVS?”  52s “Ehhh….why yes we are” Yaks “ but you are carrying German paratrooper’s!” 52s “Nope we are VVS just like you. Yaks, Okay have a good flight.” The “German” 52s then proceed to drop their troops on a VVS target. ...curse their sudden but inevitable betrayal.  The espionage branch of the Luftwaffe is working well.

[72AG_Crusader]

So If I Cant Chat or have TS....I am in trouble ? I am  SP . I am Flying DED MP for the First Time ! I see a JU and don't know if I can Open Fire ?

regards ~S~

Everybody can chat. There may be a translation issues. In any case, the server designed to team play and it is public. If player joins multiplayer, I think he want play in a team.

 

So here we go then . A flight of 5 VVS Yaks approach a flight of 3 fully laden 52s. “Hello 52s are you VVS?”  52s “Ehhh….why yes we are” Yaks “ but you are carrying German paratrooper’s!” 52s “Nope we are VVS just like you. Yaks, Okay have a good flight.” The “German” 52s then proceed to drop their troops on a VVS target. ...curse their sudden but inevitable betrayal.  The espionage branch of the Luftwaffe is working well.

 

Its funny But couldnt you check theirs heading? They may fly on yours drop zone. Or probably you can kill chutes to not allow troops to landing.

 

If this will cause much problems, I'll make a external restriction - kick for not allowed skin.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

That's a bad idea for sure. VVS should keep flying Pe2s on their heavy supply runs and no parachute missions.

Edited December 28, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[6./ZG26_Custard]

Its funny But couldnt you check theirs heading? They may fly on yours drop zone. Or probably you can kill chutes to not allow troops to landing. If this will cause much problems, I'll make a external restriction - kick for not allowed skin.

If you guys are seriously going to give the VVs the 52 then you may as well open up the entire plane set to both sides . I do understand that the VVW caputred a small number of 52 but Lets face it,  the VVS captured Geman equipment and the LW captured VVS equipment. When you have to start having to ask fellow flyers which side they are on you know that its probably not a very good idea to go down this route?

 

Edit:

What Gielow said.

Edited December 28, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Custard

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

Yaks 1b for me please

[6./ZG26_Custard]

That's a bad idea for sure. VVS should keep flying Pe2s on their heavy supply runs and no parachute missions.

[IRRE_Centx]

That's a bad idea for sure. VVS should keep flying Pe2s on their heavy supply runs.

 

 

A lot of VVS pilots keep flying Pe2s on supply runs, at 450km/h you have the time to do multiple supplies when a Ju52 has the time to do only one 

[72AG_Crusader]

When VVS will have Li-2 or TB-3 we will remove Ju52s from red coalition.

 

 

That's a bad idea for sure. VVS should keep flying Pe2s on their heavy supply runs and no parachute missions.

I dont think so. VVS has no equivalent plane: slow, high capacity and able to drop chutes.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

A lot of VVS pilots keep flying Pe2s on supply runs, at 450km/h you have the time to do multiple supplies when a Ju52 has the time to do only one

Who cares if the Pe2 is faster than Ju52??

 

If you want to balance it, just reduce the numberof credits you can get from each run.

 

Or try to find out how much cargo can each plane really haul and use historic data for credits no matter the speed.

When VVS will have Li-2 or TB-3 we will remove Ju52s from red coalition.

 

 

 

I dont think so. VVS has no equivalent plane: slow, high capacity and able to drop chutes.

Luftwaffe has no rockets. Which plane are you going to unlock? ? I love rockets. Then on 2020 when we get Gr21 you can lock the P40 (my suggestion) again. P40 locked with brazilian skins of course.

Edited December 28, 2016 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[IRRE_Centx]

Who cares if the Pe2 is faster than Ju52??

 

If you want to balance it, just reduce the numberof credits you can get from each run.

 

Or try to find out how much cargo can each plane really haul and use historic data for credits no matter the speed.

 

Just a few things:

- WHO implied that VVS pilots are using Ju52s for their supply runs, when having NEVER fly VVS side on the server since the Ju52 is available? You.

- Did I say something about balance? No, NOTHING.

 

I just said that your statement "VVS should keep Pe2s for their heavy supply runs" (meaning they should not us Ju52s for this) is complete bullshit, since a vast majority of VVS pilots ARE using Pe2s (because of speed and defensive armement mainly)

 

 

Parachute missions is another thing, but you can't do statements like this on supply runs.

Edited December 28, 2016 by -IRRE-Centx

[72AG_Crusader]

Luftwaffe has no rockets.

VVS has no 1000kg, 1800kg, 2500kg bombs. Should I give he-111/ju-88 to VVS ?

This controversy does not make sense.

If I remove dropzones and Ju-52 from red side, allow only blue side using it, I must compensate this by increasing objectives rewards for reds - +3 for warehouse in example.

But it is a bullshit.

 

Disable dropzones for all and remove ju52 from reds?

That mean remove some part of a gameplay. Bullshit #2.

[Habu]

Crusader, your server is very popular, so, i think that if you ask (or do a post asking one) to the dev to make an official skin for VVS, they 'll do it. As a mission builder, i want to try to build mission as historical as i can, but the ju52, as you said add specific gameplay which is not avaliable to russian players. And russian use a few of them. But at that moment, the skin is a real problem.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

It’s your server and your rules but from a personal viewpoint I think its utterly bonkers for the VVS to fly the 52. Does this now mean because the VVS have an additional fighter in the 1B, can the Luftwaffe fly captured aircraft to balance things up?

 

Surely it would make more sense to just block Fallschirmjäger drops and just re-sort the point scoring for cargo drops so that the VVS and LW receive similar points.

 

 

 

think that if you ask (or do a post asking one) to the dev to make an official skin for VVS

 

Are they really going to have the time to do that?