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What planes should be added after BOM?

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It was a good plane indeed and capable by most means, but not great, hence the wording :)

 

From what I know while it did its job well the Il-2 and Pe-2 (to mention its main competitors) outclassed it in a few important fields, and when you factor in price and ease of production as you said the deal was sealed.

 

The Su-2 didn't have good forward-firing armament like the Il-2, and while the initial Pe-2 and Il-2 versions both lacked serious defensive armament as well the Il-2 was well-armoured and the Pe-2 was fast, so both were less vulnerable to enemy aircraft. When it came down to flak the Il-2's ruggedness got it through while the Pe-2 had an extra engine to take it at least across the front lines.

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I think we need a set of AI recon and transport planes for both sides of the conflict. SB-2 or DB-3 would be nice, an I.A.R. and a flyable Ju-52.

Edited by windberg

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IMHO there has to be at least one more installation of Eastern Front aircraft to finish the job.  

 

Me109 G6  .. which G6 who knows

He111 H11

Me410

Hs129 - low production numbers but interesting

premium: FW190 A5

 

Contenders:

FW190 G2 (based on A5)

Ju87 G3

 

 

Yak 9

Lagg 5N

IL2M (1943 variant)

Tu-2

premium: P-39

 

That plane set gets you pretty well into 1944.  With that set you can have all sorts of maps, all the way into Poland. 

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Maybe they could do an Africa Map with 5 britsh or US planes to counter the current German ones and the other half of the aircraft set from the eastern front to flesh out Moskau and Stalingrad.

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IMHO there has to be at least one more installation of Eastern Front aircraft to finish the job.

 

Me109 G6 .. which G6 who knows

He111 H11

Me410

Hs129 - low production numbers but interesting

premium: FW190 A5

 

Contenders:

FW190 G2 (based on A5)

Ju87 G3

 

 

Yak 9

Lagg 5N

IL2M (1943 variant)

Tu-2

premium: P-39

 

That plane set gets you pretty well into 1944. With that set you can have all sorts of maps, all the way into Poland.

Looks like a nice plane set to me

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How about "nope".

 

Any new planes should fit the current plane set, either by being contemporary (1941-42) or slightly earlier or later (a 1943 scenario being the most likely)

 

That way the new planes will constitute an expansion of the plane set rather than being seperate from it. A 1945 plane set, or even worse a fictional 1946-? plane set, will feel utterly disconnected.

 

 

As vocal as I am for a new theater  (Med, N Africa, Pacific), I have to agree with Finky.  It makes absolutely no sense to go through a full development cycle and finish 1 year to 18 month later with a plane set that is wholly incompatible with the current BoS/BoM plane set.

 

I think this sim needs to stay in 1941/1942 to no later than early 1943.  I would rather see more theaters with similar war-era planes added BEFORE we go to 1945.  Talk about minding the gap!  This sim is about a cohesive combat environment, or at least it has been to this point.  Adding a module of 1945 War-Era planes would be as incompatible with the current planeset as adding Korean War-Era Jets.  They just wouldn't add anything to the current game state.

 

What makes WAY MORE sense, if you are concerned about opening up the player base, adding new customers, and ensuring the future success of the Franchise, it would be to develop a new planeset (10 all new plane models) on a fresh new theater map, but with as many aircraft as possible that are "importable" to the BoS/BoM maps and time periods.

 

Think Lend leasable aircraft and/or other German planes that fit into the new map and the current ones.

 

Planes that are currently missing from BoM/BoS that would fit into a new map/theater as well

 

I-153, DB-3, IL-4, Yak-7b

 

Mk V Spitfire, Hurricane mk IIB, P-400, P-39Q

 

B-25, A-20 (DB-7), PBY

 

Hs-123, Hs-129, Fw-189

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IMHO there has to be at least one more installation of Eastern Front aircraft to finish the job.  

 

Me109 G6  .. which G6 who knows

He111 H11

Me410

Hs129 - low production numbers but interesting

premium: FW190 A5

 

Contenders:

FW190 G2 (based on A5)

Ju87 G3

 

 

Yak 9

Lagg 5N

IL2M (1943 variant)

Tu-2

premium: P-39

 

That plane set gets you pretty well into 1944.  With that set you can have all sorts of maps, all the way into Poland. 

 

 

Unfortunately only four of the planes you suggest here are "new" aircraft.  The others are derivatives or variants of planes we already have and would require only minimal re-working of current models to produce. The argument that a Yak-9 is a TOTALLY new plane with a new engine and reworked aerodynamics doesn't hold water when you talk about the inner workings and programming of a computer model.  Any "new" Yaks would likely be started from the current Yak-1 in order to save development time.  In effect a plane we already have and not warranting "new content".  Not really... 

 

Personally I would like to see these variants released as a separate plane pack of some nominal cost $5-7 per plane rather than purchase a whole new game Bo"X" with a 18 month development cycle.  

 

So Yak-9, La-5, FW-190A-4, Bf-109G-6 pack for = $20

 

A next release, full count, 10 plane AAA title like BoS or BoM needs to bring enough new content that people don't balk at the high cost associated with it, like BoM.  BoM was a bit of a turn off to many would-be customers for a variety of reasons.  Do I think it will ultimately be successful?  Has it been already?  Probably, enough to keep the Devs in the "Black", but not nearly so much as a release that adds a new theater and all new planes.  Even more so if that release isn't on the Eastern Front.

 

Just my opinion, but feel free to prove me wrong ; )

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just for example,

Hurricane Mk 2, Tomahawk Mk 2b (or P-40F, but personally i prefer Toma), Spitfire V (c?), Blenheim, DB-7 or B-25 + Macchi C.200, Bf 109 E/F/G Trop, Bf 110 F (or Hs 129 B) and something like D.520

i.e. almost ALL these planes from North Africa 1941-1943 are really necessary for East Front 1941-1944, plus MTO maps are really necessary for american, english, australian, italian, french etc community (and as russian, personally i also very interested in african campaign 1941-1943).

Edited by bivalov

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just for example,

 

Hurricane Mk 2, Tomahawk Mk 2b (or P-40F, but personally i prefer Toma), Spitfire V (c?), Blenheim, DB-7 or B-25 + Macchi C.200, Bf 109 E/F/G Trop, Bf 110 F (or Hs 129 B) and something like D.520

 

i.e. almost ALL these planes from North Africa 1941-1943 are really necessary for East Front 1941-1944, plus MTO maps are really necessary for american, english, australian, italian, french etc community (and as russian, personally i also very interested in african campaign 1941-1943).

 

Bivalov, 

 

     This is actually one of the best suggestions I've seen for a totally complimentary, yet BRAND NEW planeset.  Virtually all the planes are new Content except for the Tomahawk IIB/P-40F and the 109/110s, and one might argue the IIb is a different plane, but its a stretch...The Tomahawk IIb is a better fit for the Eastern Front, especially in BoM.  I think the Hs-129 would be a great fit, and the D.520 is a novel idea to add in for the Vichy French in NA.  But if you add the D.520 you kinda have to add the F4F-3A for the Americans, and of course that would mean the Martlet II for the Brits...and that requires Aircraft Carriers...which I am ALL FOR....

 

-  All your Bf-109 E-7s, F-2s, and F-4s translate well from BoS/BoM, and wee already have them...

-  Your Macchi C.200 translates well back to BoS and is sorely missing...

-  B-25, DB-7, Spitfire V, Tomahawk, and Hurri translate well to BoS/BoM as lend lease...

 

And while the DB-3 doesn't play in N. Africa, it is sorely missing from BoM. 

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U guys are always going to come up with favourites..... U all do it!!!!!

 

Imo I think p39 is a defo.

 

Then it gets interesting.

 

IMO lend is not represented

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The problem with an extra variant pack for Yak and 109 etc. is, that someone who wants to fly fighters and bombers on the new theatre has to buy both packs.

 

It's not an alternative. The next installment, if there'll be one, will feature at least some variants of the existing planes, so better get used to it.

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More of the same, really.
U2, Su2, SB2, an early Stuka, a henschel 126... 
As more maps and scenarios come available, so should more Planes and related ground objects.
There are many, many planes to be had.

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[Edited]

Just remember, not everyone has played combat flight sims with these...

 

 

WPG_cover2.jpg

 

b0b1d6b2ae2a264e63352a501b5f00a8.jpg

 

While I would certainly like nothing more than to see both of those planes modeled in BoS surely you can express that sentiment in a more productive manner.

Edited by Bearcat

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As vocal as I am for a new theater  (Med, N Africa, Pacific), I have to agree with Finky.  It makes absolutely no sense to go through a full development cycle and finish 1 year to 18 month later with a plane set that is wholly incompatible with the current BoS/BoM plane set.

 

I think this sim needs to stay in 1941/1942 to no later than early 1943.  I would rather see more theaters with similar war-era planes added BEFORE we go to 1945.  Talk about minding the gap!  This sim is about a cohesive combat environment, or at least it has been to this point.  Adding a module of 1945 War-Era planes would be as incompatible with the current planeset as adding Korean War-Era Jets.  They just wouldn't add anything to the current game state.

 

.

Nah, we should take the Star Wars approach. Look how successful that has been for them.

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You are either gay, Russian, a developer or all the above if you dont like or want this. Now you're probably offended too.

 

Just remember, not everyone has played combat flight sims with these...

Dude, grow up. You can make your point without needing to antagonize half the community.

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Forget planes!! I want TORPEDOS!!

 

From what I recall the He-111H-6 and Ju-88A-4 were capable of loading one or two torpedoes each, so that's already there :) Now the Soviets just need either an Il-4 or an A-20.

 

Interesting tidbit on Soviet Havocs:

 

All the Bostons were rebuilt in Leningrad, at our aviation plant for navigator accommodation. We couldn’t fly without navigators. (...) We saw “Bostons,” which were flown to the Baltic from the Northern Fleet for the first time. We were told:

“You may fly them.

There were no instructors, and there was not a single man familiar with these airplanes. The non-flying leadership pressed us:

“You are pilots, so get inside and fly them.”

We searched for instructions, but when we finally found them, they were all in English! But most of us had studied German, as we were planning to fight against them. (...) We were given Soviet instruments. We were told that they were identical.

 

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Wow! I'm gay for not particularly wanting a P-51 or P-47 in this sim (that has to be the case, because my Russian as really not very good and I suck at coding FMs)

 

I'll have to break the sad news to my wife...

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Christ, P-51 and Spit, then the Dora need to come. I wonder why some just dont play DCS . They are all there , and fantastic FM too

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Fw190 A5

 

(of 1943 Only Original operative in World)

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Bivalov, 

 

    This is actually one of the best suggestions I've seen for a totally complimentary, yet BRAND NEW planeset.  Virtually all the planes are new Content except for the Tomahawk IIB/P-40F and the 109/110s, and one might argue the IIb is a different plane, but its a stretch...

Elf, thanks, and i read many of your posts, and you written lot of interesting thoughts. but you just must understand that is only marketing (sometimes, a bit doubtful) + russian financial CRISIS + 1CGS is not so big + etc.

 

and as you know, almost all main types of planes were used very long time, and often  they not so different from previous versions (now we have almost all main types of Bf 109, and even Bf 109 G-6 can't be properly used in North Africa 1941-42 or Kuban 1943)

 

well, in total, we even have lot of old UNLOCKS - http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_12_2015/post-12-0-47082100-1450352834.jpg+ http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_12_2015/post-12-0-89809800-1450352841.jpg  - and not so much ground units.

 

But if you add the D.520 you kinda have to add the F4F-3A for the Americans, and of course that would mean the Martlet II for the Brits...and that requires Aircraft Carriers...which I am ALL FOR....

 

i heard even about "McKinnon Road, East Africa" - http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205119605 - and escort carriers is not so big and complex ships?

 

but seems that is not for "8+2 planes + some ground units + map and campaign", even if we also remember unofficial Murmansk map.

 

And while the DB-3 doesn't play in N. Africa, it is sorely missing from BoM.

recently Han said , that "lack of distance on map for LONG-RANGE bomber" + it is absolutely new aircraft + any bombers is LOT of work = no DB-3/Il-4 in BoM.

 

and, of course, exactly L-L bombers have high priority - http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/127-o-bednom-bombere/page-64?do=findComment&comment=360767

Edited by bivalov

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There will not be a balance without a clean Russian Levelbomber, but I can live with the PE 2 . 

A-20 would do good in many theaters and it would counter the JU 88 fine combined with the PE 2

Edited by LuseKofte

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recently Han said , that "lack of distance on map for LONG-RANGE bomber" + it is absolutely new aircraft + any bomber is LOT of work = no DB-3/Il-4 in BoM.

 

and, of course, exactly L-L bombers have high priority - http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/127-o-bednom-bombere/page-64?do=findComment&comment=360767

 

The Pe-2 was the right choice and I get the resource constraints but I can't see the IL-4 being more work than the Ju88A or He111. Likely that they can commit to only doing one of those kinds of very complex multi-station aircraft per product. The Pe-2 is much simpler and in the case of BoM already done on the base level.

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  • P-39K
  • IAR-80
  • Hs-129B
  • Hs-123A
  • Fw-190A-5
  • Bf-109G-4
  • Bf-109G-6
  • La-5FN
  • P-47D (lend lease for CCCP)

 

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b0b1d6b2ae2a264e63352a501b5f00a8.jpg

 

While I would certainly like nothing more than to see both of those planes modeled in BoS surely you can express that sentiment in a more productive manner.

 

Geeze the P-47 is a big beastie.  When the Jug was first introduced in Europe, a USAAF pilot landed one at an RAF base.  As the pilot climbed down and headed for the duty office, one of the ground crew asked hesitantly, "Sir... is there anyone else coming out?"

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The Russian's got the P-47D-22 'bird Cage' model. None the less every bit as sturdy. The 109's will have a hell of a time killing one.

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Am sure there were some D-22(Razoorback/birdcage) / and D-27 (bubbletop) P-47's in operational use with Northern fleet 255th IAP late 1944-5

 

Although only about +-200 including all types were delivered, and some D-10 models initially for testing

 

If BoS features a 1944 scenario am sure P-47 (all variants) would be very popular

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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I really wonder how the P-39 would do in this game, as successful it was in Eastern front it never really suited any other theatre. I know it had a simpler job in east in terms of low altitude handling. But still it had a nasty  tendency to go into a flat spin, the Allied pilot hated its car door concept. But Russians just loved the plane.

I wonder how the wannabe pilots in this game would do with it

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I wonder what's the deal the Allied pilots had with the car door, the Soviets loved how easy it was to roll over on either side and bail out safely.

 

But in a game context I don't think it should be much of a problem - it wasn't in the old Il-2 anyway, but a more complex FM might change that. Whatever the case, it was an aircraft that handled very well until you pushed it too far. While you'll definitely see a lot of people stalling out during their first flights trying to turn around close to stall speed, once they learn the flight regimes and inputs that must be avoided the P-39 should become a very useful aircraft.

 

To be very honest I'm betting that the biggest struggle will be hitting fighters with the 37mm cannon on a regular basis :biggrin:

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There will not be a balance without a clean Russian Levelbomber, but I can live with the PE 2 . 

A-20 would do good in many theaters and it would counter the JU 88 fine combined with the PE 2

 

I haven't found Han's post about the distance in the Russian forums but anyhow, when working as a level bomber the DB-3 (as the name suggests) from what I recall was mainly used in long-range bombing missions leaving most of the tactical level bombing to the Pe-2. The A-20 and DB-3 would fit perfectly in a map where they can be used as torpedo bombers, that way you can explore both their level bombing prowess and torpedo bombing abilities.

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I would like to see the Hs129, IAR-80B, Fiesler Fi156, Fw189, Po-2, I-153, Yak-1B, and finally the first Yak-9 variant for BoS, since all these planes took part in the battle of Stalingrad. The Fw189 would be a good counter to the Po-2, considering it was used as a night fighter with the specific mission of shooting down those little buggers. Plus, check out that cockpit!

 

fw189cockitphoto1.jpg

 

 

The Fi167 Storch would be interesting. There could be medevac missions for it, for example. Land in a clearing close enough to the objective, take off, and land at a base.

Edited by Brogan1
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If you say 109 G-6, I think: mk108-5.jpg

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This is basically the same discussion as the which theatre should we go to next. There are tons of very good options... SO long as the devs stick to something around the same plan as now which is to release a theatre/planeset that are all historically relevant to the threatre and not create huge gaps where we have the planes but not the map or one of the planes and not everything else.

 

I'm betting on East Front 1943 (Kuban or Kursk) but North Africa 1942-43 or the Pacific 1943 (either Solomons island battle or New Guinea, New Britain) seem to all be popular choices.

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At this point I can't see them going anywhere other than Kuban if we look at the current plane set.

 

The Yak-1, LaGG-3, La-5, MiG-3, I-16 and P-40 versions we have were there in large numbers. The Bf-109G-2 and Fw-190A-3 were also there in decent numbers. The Bf-109F and Bf-109E were there as well, mostly with foreign units attached to the Luftwaffe. It goes without saying that the single-seater Il-2 flew constantly and the Pe-2 was a regular as well, the same goes for the Ju-87, Ju-88 and He-111 variants we have here.

 

Throw in some lend-lease aircraft, the Luftwaffe's 1943 series of fighters and attack aircraft plus torpedoes for both sides and you not only have a complete early to mid-war Eastern Front experience but also the basis needed for a Mediterranean 1943 expansion which seems to be in high demand.

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I think its more about the theatre rather than the a/c ie. the theatre WILL determine the a/c. We already have two battles in the same theatre (BOS/BOM). We need something different because TBH adding any more battles will just be more of the same with some slight variation in maps/aircraft. Don't get me wrong, I love the new IL2 modes but I'm keen to get some ETO or MTO action going eg. the Med (Battle of Malta or Battle of Sicily or Battle of North Africa). Its sad that the servers are quite empty and I'm wondering whether this is because not everyone is onboard with the eastern front. Maybe the Med or Normandy would attract more players.

 

Assuming the devs decided to go with say the Battle of North Africa (I'd prefer this to Malta...bigger area with tanks, artillery, etc rather than Malta which was more a mini battle of Britain), they already have a lot of the Luftwaffe a/c ingame ie.

- H111

- JU88

- BF109E/F

- FW190

- BF110

- JU 87

- P40

- Macchi 202

 

I'd prefer they expand on the a/c in that time period/theatre eg. the Desert air force

- Hurricane Mk II

- Beaufighter

- Blenheim IVs

- B25

- Spitfire Vb

 

for the Fliegerfuhrer Afrika:

- BF109G2

- BF110 C2

- JU 52

 

I know its a tall ask but I reckon it would be worth it.

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