The ground physics agree or disagree

[KoN_]

Ok Gents ,

Do we have the ground physics slightly over done , reaching out to pilots of the community  , IMHO i would like them toned down a bit . What do you think . ?

i think they are over done , With the bunny hopping and stuttering and ground looping on the runways and poor taxi ways  its getting quite frustrating getting into the air .

Don`t get me wrong i love the way its implemented .

Lets concentrate getting them into the air . Lets tone it down a bit .

When i taxi i feel i have hardly any control over my craft , and i taxi slow ,  i don't even unlock my tail wheel 80% of the time . Because of the ground looping .

What real pilot has experience this .

[Dakpilot]

When taxiing IRL in taildragger locked tailwheel is judiciously used when going straight due to the very same issues observed in game

 

It is a very hard position for a developer, all (most?) people are wanting more advanced FM and fidelity, however sometimes when presented with it, it is actually not that much fun and has a very intimitating learning curve

 

Most pilots had 200hrs minimum of high quality instruction before being let loose in the type of aircraft we have in BoS not even considering the probable thousand hrs of ground school

 

The balance for expectation to be able to jump straight into high performance aircraft and fly reasonably competitively without a lot of practice/training is a tricky one

 

Personally I feel there are other options if wanting a more 'relaxed' FM/ground handling learning curve, and keeping BoS on the more realistic sim side is the way to go even if more practice is needed, when that learning curve is breached the satisfaction is very real

 

The answer is having easily found instructions/explanations/tutorials to ease the learning curve, and make training fun

 

Even as a thousand hr pilot when first trying original IL-2 with a basic twist joystick I found the transition to be not so straight forward due to unfamiliar controls and lack of 'sitting in a cockpit' with everything to hand so to speak, and an amount of re-learning a 'sim' was needed

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_Emil]

It's one of the best features implemented in my opinion and I really like it.

[Voidhunger]

Its fine for me

[Feathered_IV]

I really like it too.  I can understand that those who liked to gun their engine and just go belting off in any direction will be much less pleased though.  However to be truthful, I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. 

[Bullets]

Imo I think it is slightly overdone and a bit silly in places but I think overall  its a good feature as it does what its intended to do and stops people taxiing over the ground. 

[Matt]

The ground handling is actually one of the best features in this sim for me.

 

Not sure what's meant with stuttering and bunny hopping though.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

The ground handling is actually one of the best features in this sim for me.

 

Not sure what's meant with stuttering and bunny hopping though.

 

In externals it looks like the plane is bouncing up and down off the ground, if they tweaked that aspect it would be absolutely perfect. In cockpit I love how it works, you really get a feeling of being stuck in a rut if you go off the taxiway

[Brano]

I think OP was pointing at external perception.Sometimes it looks like planes are really hopping too much when you sit on parking spot and watch others move around.I guess it is a subjective feeling,hard to say if it is overdone or not.For me,its not much of an immersion breaker.

[Finkeren]

It's way better than before 1.104, and back them it was already more than half decent.

 

The visuals might be slightly overdone when taxiing "off road", it does look like the plane is struggling in a freshly plowed field, but it's a very minor issue and the ground handling itself feels superb.

[KoN_]

In externals it looks like the plane is bouncing up and down off the ground, if they tweaked that aspect it would be absolutely perfect. In cockpit I love how it works, you really get a feeling of being stuck in a rut if you go off the taxiway

Yes yesterday two 110 got stuck in the snow , with bombs attached . Now that i do like . i stick to taxi ways all the time . only wish they were wider and better seen or marked . The bunny hoping is seen from my cockpit and looks like the other aircraft is hoping .

Edited December 1, 2015 by II./JG77_Con

[TP_Jacko]

I have no idea about how an aircraft would handle on an icy runway, if its anything like riding my bike on ice it must be a hard task controlling the torque forces with little or no friction with the ground. The only bumpiness is when you try to taxi across a rough field !! Why do that when with a bit of patience you follow the taxi way. The BoB airfields were very much home base in nature and well prepared. Eastern front I am sure is a very different picture.

[Elem]

Yes yesterday two 110 got stuck in the snow , with bombs attached . Now that i do like . i stick to taxi ways all the time . only wish they were wider and better seen or marked . The bunny hoping is seen from my cockpit and looks like the other aircraft is hoping .

Yes, I think this is more of an issue, being able to see the boundaries of the taxi ways so the rough ground can be avoided. It's the short render distance of the long grass that's the problem. Ground handling both on smooth or rough ground is very realistic.

[150GCT_Veltro]

I love it, we have the best physic ever in this sim.

Edited December 1, 2015 by 150GCT_Veltro

[=EXPEND=Capt_Yorkshire]

I like the idea  i just want it to look better its way too bouncy

[1PL-Banzai-1Esk]

I like ground handling but I do believe it looks too bouncy , especially on the runway and while taxing. Tone it down a bit and it will be perfect.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

It's one of the best features implemented in my opinion and I really like it.

 

I second this and feel that in some circumstances it isn't punishing enough. 

[Broadsword]

A couple of elements of the PE-2's ground handling (oleos and lack of weight on the tail wheel) I question a bit, but all in all. It is fine. It is a really nice element to the game.

 

Even a well maintained grass field isn't smooth and flat. I've watched many a Cessna Caravan bounce and wobble its way around at my local grass airfield.

 

As for the ground looping. You have a great big, heavy, torquey engine at the front. One that gets momentum in it, it's not going to be easy to stop.

[Potenz]

Don't touch it, Ground handling is amazingly well done in BoS

[Alkyan]

Ground looping is very very weird... I don't see how a torque at low power can be enough to loop a heavy airplane that way... Behavior with unlock tail wheel feel definitively off to me.

 

It's ridiculous to a point where taxing the plane is the hardest thing in the game.

 

now ground physic is nice and has a lot of potential. Just need some tuning maybe.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Well the ground handling is dead on, you just need to learn to keep your speed low and tap on the break into the turn, but the pogo sticks is not..

Edited December 1, 2015 by 71st_Mastiff

[Alkyan]

Well I fly a da 20 which has a free front wheel and ground handling has nothing in common.

 

Now those planes have not a lot in common neither

 

Maybe someone flying a cap 10 would have an interesting input

[LukeFF]

Is this another ConPlaint? 

 

The ground physics are fine.

[Livai]

 

 

Is this another ConPlaint?

 

Just a 1st April ConPlaint...  

[KoN_]

Is this another ConPlaint? 

 

The ground physics are fine.

Where ..???

i cant see a complaint ..

[Brano]

It is probably more pronounced in MP and can be problem of the connection itself/how fast those quite quick movements can be transferred to our monitors.

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip-

Do we have the ground physics slightly over done -snip- IMHO i would like them toned down a bit -snip-

i think they are over done , With the bunny hopping and stuttering and ground looping on the runways and poor taxi ways  its getting quite frustrating getting into the air .

-snip-

-snip- i feel i have hardly any control over my craft -snip- i don't even unlock my tail wheel 80% of the time . Because of the ground looping .

-snip-

 

Where ..???

i cant see a complaint ..

 

Edited December 1, 2015 by Space_Ghost

[Requiem]

I like the ground handling for the most part, but I believe the main problem with it in BoS/BoM is that the aircraft's landing gear suspension doesn't absorb enough force right now. This lack of force absorption leads to them being too "bouncy" while taxiing and especially while landing.

[216th_Peterla]

I like them.

[Willy__]

I think the ground handling is fine.

 

About the visuals though... the aircraft bouncing up and down, I have a theory: isnt that a connection issue thing ? By no means its lag, but just netcode in general, because I noticed that some people really do bounce a lot, while others dont... 

[SharpeXB]

Since I'm not a real pilot I have no idea what should feel real.

But the externals look too exaggerated. That I can compare with reality. I think one of the best aspects of RoF and BoS was just how real the aircraft look when taxiing on the rough ground. It's looks uncannily real, especially RoF

But now BoS looks too game like, you can see the planes hopping and bouncing through the ground. Maybe some of this effect is ping on the servers. It needs some fine tuning to look better IMO.

[bokepacha]

As a real PPL pilot I don't use taildragers so I can't confirm or deny how well done is the game on the ground. It's way way different compared to a piper or a cessna, of course. I have never had any problem with a plane like the ones I have in here.

I am fine dealing (or better struggling) with the ground handling, I just wich taxiways in the snow maps, were not fully covered in white and me unable to realize where is a turn and where is not. It's been impossible for me to taxi a bomber without end up stuck in the snow because the sun was in fron of me and I can't see anything on the ground.

Edited December 1, 2015 by bokepacha

[Feathered_IV]

As Brano said, it's an Internet connection thing. You won't see the bunny hopping offline.

[Sim]

I like it, but something is missing from a "spot on" feeling for me... It's like they still need to tweak one missing parameter or something.

 

Also, no one has mentioned this yet -  but this new ground rough terrain physics modelling is a major problem for AI aircraft right now. Try placing a Ju 87 just 5 meters from taxiway/runway on a rough snow.. let it taxi and see what happens (hint - they will constantly get stuck, or for example the La-5s will most likely damage their props).

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Can't agree or disagree how accurate the ground physics are.  Never taxied any taildragger heavier than an ultralight.

 

What I can say is that taxiing a Pe-2 is a dream whereas the 110 is a monster.  I went off the taxiway about a few inches in a 110 and that was it, stuck like in 3 feet of snow.

[mb339pan]

I love it, a feature that adds incredible realism and no other flight sim has

[KoN_]

It is probably more pronounced in MP and can be problem of the connection itself/how fast those quite quick movements can be transferred to our monitors.

I see , Yes that could be the cause . as i only play online .

[Requiem]

It is probably more pronounced in MP and can be problem of the connection itself/how fast those quite quick movements can be transferred to our monitors.

It's not related to MP as it is still there in SP from what I've seen. For an example load a quick mission with the Macchi, no wind or turbulence, and parked. After spawning in and the plane has settled down, unlock the tailwheel and you can watch the plane start bouncing without even having the engine on.

Edited December 2, 2015 by SYN_Requiem

[FuriousMeow]

It's not related to MP as it is still there in SP from what I've seen. For an example load a quick mission with the Macchi, no wind or turbulence, and parked. After spawning in and the plane has settled down, unlock the tailwheel and you can watch the plane start bouncing without even having the engine on.

 

Doesn't happen with locked tail wheel but does when unlocked for the Macchi. It also happens with the 109F4/G2 which is unlocked tail wheel on spawn but not E7 even after unlocking the tail wheel. Does not happen with the 190, P40, or I16. Looks like there might be a bug with some aircraft maybe relating to the ability to lock/unlock with the key command as it doesn't happen with all. But that is a small amount of "hopping." After further testing, it looks like that bounce for the Macchi after unlocking its tail wheel also only happens at some fields. I tested the same aircraft above there, and the ones that bounced did bounce at the same field and the ones that didn't were at the same field. Moving to a different field and it didn't happen anymore. So some specific fields cause a small tail wheel bounce with certain airplanes. That is not the bunny hopping however...

 

The bunny hopping is much more severe, it is MP/internet/lag related where entire planes bunny hop like first person shooter players in Counter Strike.

Edited December 2, 2015 by FuriousMeow

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Only 2 "complaints" from my side:

 

1. Shock absorbers are to weak, apparently they seem to work like springs. This also effects taxiing of course.

 

2. Currently there only seems to be airfield (smooth) and field (very rought) terrain. What I'd preferr to see is a more diverse terrain simulation for smooth transitions between smooth and rough surfaces especially in airfield areas.

 

Other than that I consider it quite well (no real expirience here) simulated. For me the 109, Ju87 and IL-2 are quite enjoyable and easy to adapt to taxiing provided you know some of the tricks and play on good FPS (it feels way different with 50 than 35 FPS).