Has anyone bagged a T-34 with the Panzer III yet?

[Finkeren]

You can look around with trackir if press T key before. But then the gun is fixed and you can't fire. Press T again for unlock the turret and fire again.

 

Thanks!

 

Though, they could get around it easier, if they allowed us to use other controls for the turret that just the mouse.

[DB605]

Pz IV for germans would be much better choice to germans but even now tanks are sooo great fun. Hopefully we get also proper commander cupola view in future with possibility to use binoculars instead of bit unrealistic zoom like now...this game has great potential with tanks, would be great shame to leave it undeveloped...oh and to topic starter, yes i just bagged two t34's in one fight at expert server

Edited November 25, 2015 by DB605

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Sweet! I'll give it a go.

can you give a screenshot?

 

 

Also I agree that hte Panzer IV will be a better choice for tank battles.  But for the initial offering to judge interest Im totally floored how cool it is!!

Edited November 25, 2015 by Hooves

[DB605]

can you give a screenshot?

 

 

Also I agree that hte Panzer IV will be a better choice for tank battles.  But for the initial offering to judge interest Im totally floored how cool it is!!

 

Here you go:

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by DB605

[migmadmarine]

Do think they should have paired the vehicles as Red Orchestra 2 did, have playable Panzer IV Ausf. F2 and T-34 first, and then playable Panzer III Ausf. L and T-70 later. Panzer III must do a great job against the BT-7's that are available in game as well. 

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Here you go:

 

 

 

 

Oh dude thats perfect

Can you do it on the T34 as well?

 

And this is in Full expert settings right?

[SpaydCBR]

I couldn't figure out how to open the hatch The keys they said in the DD didn't work. I assume it's because I have a lot of my keys rebinded but I don't know which ones. The only keys I got to work were the directional keys (Why not WASD btw?) and Ctrl+C to switch between driver and gunner. I haven't figured out how to zero my sight, open the hatch or change ammo type.

[SYN_Mike77]

I couldn't figure out how to open the hatch The keys they said in the DD didn't work. I assume it's because I have a lot of my keys rebinded but I don't know which ones. The only keys I got to work were the directional keys (Why not WASD btw?) and Ctrl+C to switch between driver and gunner. I haven't figured out how to zero my sight, open the hatch or change ammo type.

You can map the keys to anything you want.  Go into key mapping in settings and set it up anyway you want!

[Matt]

Do think they should have paired the vehicles as Red Orchestra 2 did, have playable Panzer IV Ausf. F2 and T-34 first, and then playable Panzer III Ausf. L and T-70 later. Panzer III must do a great job against the BT-7's that are available in game as well. 

Both of the current tanks can be used in BoS and BoM, the Panzer IV F2 could not. Which is probably the reason why they went for a Panzer III first.

 

It looks like the tanks are a success (i was sceptical at first, but when i tried it out for the first time, i was also convinced, brings back memories from the old Panzer Elite), so it's likely that more tanks will become avaliable and then the Panzer IV F2 or G would of course be an obvious next choice.

[6./ZG26_Gielow]

It is possible to destroy a 34 with a single shot of anti tank rifle in RO2 aiming between the wheels on the fuel tank. Just below the engine compartment.

Edited November 25, 2015 by 6./ZG26_Gielow

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

PzIV F2 can't be used in BoM, it was first used in April-May 1942 in and around the 2nd Battle of Kharkov.

 

Either way, I think T-34 armor buggines can be attributed more to the AI, since on the hardcore server with just players I was doing much better

 

 

[SpaydCBR]

Nice play RoflSeal. I just saw the first video and even though you have great tactical sense, you just took great advantage of the T-34s being busy with something else. But I don't know, in my opinion it looked like the moment a T-34 actually engaged you, you lost. It just takes too much skill (and some luck) to beat the T-34.

Edited November 25, 2015 by SpaydCBR

[migmadmarine]

Well, they would need to change T-34 model as well, as we have a 1942 production from STZ, where you would want one of the conventional cast or welded turret mod 1941's for BOM I believe, though the differences would be kinda minimal. 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Am I the only one scratching his head because "simmers" are talking about balance in a simulation?

 

[TheElf]

I got a kill. Video coming soon.

 

IMO the Panzer IV should be playable, not the III. The IV is more on par with the T-34.

 

 

The problem with your logic is that you are thinking in terms of gameplay balance.  At the battle of Stalingrad the Germans had 10 Pz IIIs for every 1 Pz IV.  What you are suggesting is the equivalent of suggesting that the Russians should have the Yak-3 at Stalingrad because if is more on par with the Bf-109G-2.

[Finkeren]

Am I the only one scratching his head because "simmers" are talking about balance in a simulation?

 

You don't understand; this is different. Now it's the Germans who are getting the short end of the stick

 

 

(And calm down Lufties. I'm kidding )

Edited November 25, 2015 by Finkeren

[III/JG2Gustav05]

The problem with your logic is that you are thinking in terms of gameplay balance.  At the battle of Stalingrad the Germans had 10 Pz IIIs for every 1 Pz IV.  What you are suggesting is the equivalent of suggesting that the Russians should have the Yak-3 at Stalingrad because if is more on par with the Bf-109G-2.

Elf , I am sorry that your logic is screwed abviously here. Russain does not hve Yak3 in 1942! I do not know what is your problem here, why you get so upset when someone mention PzIV here. 

[Finkeren]

Simple solution: Make the Pzkw IV F2 and the KV-1 drivable as a hotfix to be released on Friday

[JtD]

The T-34 as a design was simply great for 1940-41 and did cause the German tanks a few headaches back then. Keep in mind that the game does not model the typical T-34 shortcomings to the degree they were relevant in real life. Don't be surprised that in game, where it comes down to simple armour penetration, the T-34 is clearly the better tank of the two.

 

FYI, below a chart showing penetration ranges for German 50mm and 37mm guns against the T-34.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AfkY8yGpA-E/UYa87i4gt2I/AAAAAAAAApE/_7C3VffuV8s/s1600/soviet+armour+2.png

Edited November 25, 2015 by JtD

[III/JG2Gustav05]

No. The 5cm L/60 was a high velocity gun specially fitted to counter T-34. With PzGr. 39 it had ~70mm armour penetration at 500m. I too encoutnered some T-34s in close combat (up to 20m) and one of which took 15 shells of AP from the drivers hatch, sides and turret front. Apparently his turret was stuck and he looked damaged but still managed to drive away.

 

So yea it seems quite unblanced.

please keep in mind all German penetration data is for 30 degree amour to vertical.  the value for vertical armour should be multiplied by 1.154, so 70mm is equal to 80.8mm for vertical armour.

[DB605]

You don't understand; this is different. Now it's the Germans who are getting the short end of the stick

 

 

(And calm down Lufties. I'm kidding )

 

Am I the only one scratching his head because "simmers" are talking about balance in a simulation?

 

 

 

 

Certainly not first time here; i remember well the times when it was lagg vs F4. However i don't see anyone wanting balance by reducing realism. Only that vehicles could be better match to another.  Anyhow i for one are just happy to have tanks at all, and because of their succes i'm sure more will follow

Oh dude thats perfect

Can you do it on the T34 as well?

 

And this is in Full expert settings right?

 

Yes and yes

Edited November 25, 2015 by DB605

[TheElf]

Elf , I am sorry that your logic is screwed abviously here. Russain does not hve Yak3 in 1942! I do not know what is your problem here, why you get so upset when someone mention PzIV here. 

 

 

Gustav, I am well aware that the Yak-3 was not available in 1942.  I think we are suffering from a language barrier.  I am not using logic.  I am stating fact.  

 

Let's try this again...I was simply comparing Cybermat47's suggestion that the Pz IV should be playable over the Pz III because it is "A better match for the T-34" to someone suggesting that the Yak-3 should be playable at Stalingrad because it was a better match for the 109G-2 or the FW-190.  Cybermat is approaching this issue from a "gameplay", "Game balance" perspective.  I am approaching it, like the Devs are, from a historical accuracy.

 

Neither idea is a good idea.  The Devs made a game called Battle of Stalingrad. At the Battle of Stalingrad, the Pz IV was NOT the most numerous German tank type, the Pz III was.  That is why the Pz III is playable, and the Pz IV isn't.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

please keep in mind all German penetration data is for 30 degree amour to vertical.  the value for vertical armour should be multiplied by 1.154, so 70mm is equal to 80.8mm for vertical armour.

Just puts more emphasize on how terrible the current DM mechanics are.

The T-34 ingame does not have any significant weakspot. Drivers hatch, turret side, turret ring or the nice shot trap up front of the turret - it's all worthless ingame while the Pz.III is toast if shoot at anything but the frontal hull armour.

 

Currently it's much worse than WT. I hope they will improve on it in future as well as the high performence drops in tank battles.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Sokol1]

No, but in T-34 I was "bagged" by Panzers (human players). 

 

Ah, the "Panzerwinhers" are in the chat.    

Edited November 25, 2015 by Sokol1

[III/JG2Gustav05]

Gustav, I am well aware that the Yak-3 was not available in 1942.  I think we are suffering from a language barrier.  I am not using logic.  I am stating fact.  

 

Let's try this again...I was simply comparing Cybermat47's suggestion that the Pz IV should be playable over the Pz III because it is "A better match for the T-34" to someone suggesting that the Yak-3 should be playable at Stalingrad because it was a better match for the 109G-2 or the FW-190.  Cybermat is approaching this issue from a "gameplay", "Game balance" perspective.  I am approaching it, like the Devs are, from a historical accuracy.

 

Neither idea is a good idea.  The Devs made a game called Battle of Stalingrad. At the Battle of Stalingrad, the Pz IV was NOT the most numerous German tank type, the Pz III was.  That is why the Pz III is playable, and the Pz IV isn't.

I am sorry that I cannot follow your logic here, Yak3 is not available in1942, but PzIV was equipped in 1942, PzIV for sure is not the main tank of  Panzerwaffe in 1942, but it plays key role in panzerwaffe when fighting to a tank like T34. if IRC almost every Panzer divsion has 2 PzIV companies at that time. This is historical accuracy. Even as you claimed Cybermat47's suggestion is based on game balance, but it still has standing point. but your Yak3 request does not make sense obviously.

[StG77_Kondor]

I had very low expectations for the tanks, and that's nothing against the devs, just that making a tank sim to the level of detail we currently have in the air would be a waste of time and resources - as they themselves have said many times. I expected RO1 type tank gameplay, which is pretty close to what we have now. 

Maybe I'm missing the idea, but personally I don't see this addition as anything other than a kind of 'arcade mode' to keep as a change of pace from dealing with 8000m Messers, Flap-yaks (can you tell I'm hungry), or in my case, laser accurate AA. It's a neat concept and a testament to the strength of the game engine, but I feel many are losing focus on why we even picked up this game in the first place.

BTW, I posted these numbers earlier. The Panzer III was the backbone of the Panzer-Divisions still in 1942, even while being phased out in favor of the longer barreled IV's. 'Balance' aside, this was the main tank available in the Stalingrad sector. 
 

Combat strength on the evening of 1st October 1942 for the 24. Panzer-Division:

• 8 x Panzer II
• 12 x Panzer III lg (Long barrel - Ausf J/L)
• 2 x Panzer III kz (Short barrel)
• 3 x Panzer IV lg
• 2 Panzer IV kz

[TheElf]

I am sorry that I cannot follow your logic here, Yak3 is not available in1942, but PzIV was equipped in 1942, PzIV for sure is not the main tank of  Panzerwaffe in 1942, but it plays key role in panzerwaffe when fighting to a tank like T34. if IRC almost every Panzer divsion has 2 PzIV companies at that time. This is historical accuracy. Even as you claimed Cybermat47's suggestion is based on game balance, but it still has standing point. but your Yak3 request does not make sense obviously.

 

 

You are hung up on the fact that I chose the Yak-3 instead of Yak-9, or Yak-7???  You are missing the entire point.  

 

Gameplay or historical accuracy is the question.  Anyone who thinks the Pz IV would have been a better add to BoS than the Pz III is looking at the game as if "fair" is necessary for proper gameplay.  Whether the Yak-3 was available in 1942 or not is irrelevant to the discussion of Game balance because if you really wanted Gameplay balance you'd have to go for a plane that isn't historically accurate for the BoS to get it.  That is why I chose it as part of my point. The average "gameplay balance" proponent, in addition to likely being a WT fan, doesn't care about historical accuracy.  The point of comparing the Yak-3 scenario to the Pz IV scenario, is that neither is the correct answer for BoS.  See Kondor's post above if you really need more historical context.

 

If you are still so hung up on my use of the Yak-3 such that it continues to paralyze your ability to get my point in the first place, just grab a grease pen and when you see where I have typed "Yak-3" in any post write "Yak-9" over it on your monitor...then just move on. 

[TheElf]

BTW, thanks for the post Kondor.  Right on the money.  I'm assuming you are getting these number from Death of the Leaping Horseman Appendix 10? ; )

 

June 28 Strength Report for 24 Panzer Division at the start of the drive to Stalingrad.

 

32  Panzer II

112 Panzer III

32  Panzer IV

 

This is pretty representative of all divisions in the German Panzerwaffe circa Summer 1942.  One of the main failings of the the Wehrmacht was its failure to get new tanks of ANY type to the eastern front at Stalingrad, where the T-34 was coming into its own as a force to be reckoned with.  Having everyone driving around in Pz IVs instead of Pz IIIs would not be a historically accurate representation of the ground war at this time and would ruin the immersion of having tanks in the first place. 

[StG77_Kondor]

BTW, thanks for the post Kondor.  Right on the money.  I'm assuming you are getting these number from Death of the Leaping Horseman Appendix 10? ; )

 

100% correct. Great book, great resource, even better author. 

 

This is pretty representative of all divisions in the German Panzerwaffe circa Summer 1942.  One of the main failings of the the Wehrmacht was its failure to get new tanks of ANY type to the eastern front at Stalingrad, where the T-34 was coming into its own as a force to be reckoned with.  Having everyone driving around in Pz IVs instead of Pz IIIs would not be a historically accurate representation of the ground war at this time and would ruin the immersion of having tanks in the first place. 

 

I wouldn't necessarily call it a failing. Closer to how they were able to 'get away' with dragging their feet properly up-armoring and up-gunning their Panzerwaffe. While at the same time still able to use the same blitzkrieg tactics from summer '41 in '42. The T-34 was a shock from June 22 on. The Germans lost at Stalingrad for many reasons. Not having more IV's than III's is probably not one I would hang my hat on. I believe that even if they had Tigers and Panthers the outcome would've been exactly the same.  

Edited November 25, 2015 by StG77_Kondor

[TheElf]

100% correct. Great book, great resource, even better author. 

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily call it a failing. Closer to how they were able to 'get away' with dragging their feet properly up-armoring and up-gunning their Panzerwaffe. While at the same time still able to use the same blitzkrieg tactics from summer '41 in '42. The T-34 was a shock from June 22 on. The Germans lost at Stalingrad for many reasons. Not having more IV's than III's is probably not one I would hang my hat on. I believe that even if they had Tigers and Panthers the outcome would've been exactly the same.  

 

Good analysis.  I agree.

[Cybermat47]

@TheElf I always thought that the Panzer III had been largely replaced by the Panzer IV by the time of Stalingrad, due to the T-34's supremacy. Thanks for the info

 

BTW, the main reason I'd prefer a Panzer IV over a III is that the IV is one of my favourite tanks of all time, blance isn't really an issue. I don't mind when my Panzer IV gets flattened by a T-34 in War Thunder, because that seems accurate to me.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Cybermat47

[Finkeren]

@TheElf I always thought that the Panzer III had been largely replaced by the Panzer IV by the time of Stalingrad, due to the T-34's supremacy. Thanks for the info

 

The Panzer III wasn't offcially phased out as a standard medium tank of the Wehrmacht until after Kursk, and the design continued in the form of the StuG III right until the end of the war.

[HippyDruid]

Here's me taking out a T-34 with a Panzer III.

 

[VIDEO]

[/VIDEO]

 

I saw that!. Vessel definitely didn't know the keys. Lol I couldn't help him either because neither did I! 

 

The keys (from the update post)

1. "T-34-76 made by Stalingrad Tractor Factory, model of 1942" and "PzKpfw III Ausf. L" tanks are available to all owners of the game. 

2. You can operate them using the following controls: 

"E" - Start engine 

"Cursor Keys" - Movement (the game automatically translates these simple direction commands to pushing pedals, switching friction clutches and changing gears). 

"RAlt-C" - Close/open hatch (riding with open hatches is obviously more dangerous). 

"LCtrl-C" - Switch to gunner and back to driver seat. 

"RAlt-G" - Switch ammunition: Armour Piercing / High Explosive / Machine Gun. 

"Ralt ;" "Ralt ." - Adjust gunsight verticaly (range) 

"Ralt ," "Ralt /" - Adjust gunsight horizontaly vertical (only on T-34) 

"Mouse Wheel" or "LShift - Mouse Wheel" - Zoom in or out 

"T" - Set turret to stowed position / Take control over the turret 

[SYN_Mike77]

If you want a one on one match with the T-34 you are going to have to wait until they unleash the Panther!

 

BTW, playing in the official full real server with 60 people some in tanks, some in ground attack planes some in fighters is awesome!  I'm scared to death every time I see a plane in the sky.  Especially if it looks bigger than a Yak or a 109!  

My favorite go yet was when I decided to balance the sides a bit and take a PZIII.  I found a copse of trees off to the side of the main road to the German spawn point and hid, waiting for some T34's.  When they went by they presented their side.  I stopped one with a single shot into the track and then lit him up with a couple of shots around turret high.  Unfortunately I was spotted and lit up pretty quickly.  Great fun!

[HippyDruid]

BTW, playing in the official full real server with 60 people some in tanks, some in ground attack planes some in fighters is awesome!  I'm scared to death every time I see a plane in the sky.  Especially if it looks bigger than a Yak or a 109!  

 

 

So true. It's has added a very interesting and fun dynamic to multiplayer. 

[Finkeren]

Indeed. If we could then have a proper objectives based mission for the tanks, instead of just a mindless head-on charge, it would be awesome.

 

I get why they chose something so simple for the first missions. People have to get to know the tanks and get a feel for the battle from that perspective. But the potential for this is huge.

[13reaver]

I like how tanks feel and i would like to play more, but balance is of courtse a bit off... so,

 

How often is this game being patched ?

Edited November 26, 2015 by 13reaver

[Dakpilot]

Here is the recent history of patches

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/

​

Cheers Dakpilot

[6./ZG26_Emil]

PzIV F2 can't be used in BoM, it was first used in April-May 1942 in and around the 2nd Battle of Kharkov.

 

Either way, I think T-34 armor buggines can be attributed more to the AI, since on the hardcore server with just players I was doing much better

 

 

 

Ok that is really impressive. We have just been chatting about this.

 

Secondly I am really impressed by the tanks so far, I've not driven them yet but I totally eat my words on having tanks in this sim

 

Thanks for the video

[DD_Arthur]

Guess who?