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Bf 110 E-2 cockpit guide and engine operation notes


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#41 6./ZG26_Loke

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 11:55

Luke, you say yaw trim. But you can't map any yaw trim. There is aileron and rudder trim.
So yaw trim is that a combined of the two or?
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#42 xvii-Dietrich

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 12:58

Clipboard04sdsd_1.jpg

 

Interesting figure. Do you have the full title/author of the book from whence it came?

 

^And that reference doesn't help at all.

 
It might not help directly with the two unidentified lights, but for the overall topic of "Bf 110 E-2 cockpit guide" it is still useful.

 

It certainly shows a few items that were missed by the original post.


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#43 bivalov

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 13:20

Interesting figure. Do you have the full title/author of the book from whence it came?


http://www.wwiiaircr...tions_Me110.pdf
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#44 andyw248

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 17:54

andyw248, on 28 Nov 2015 - 12:37, said: How do I adjust oil and water radiators when I'm operating the two engines separately? Here's what I have tried so far: Added key mappings for engine 1 & 2 throttles, prop pitch increase/decrease, oil and water radiators Hit 0 to switch to two-engine mode Engine start/stop, throttles, and manual prop pitch work separately now Oil and water radiators don't work at all Thanks for any advice! Ýou have to use the oil/water radiator controls that also work for the He 111. They are not the same controls as the controls for most other planes, because those in the 110 work in stages.

 

Yes, I noticed the key assignments for the 110/111. So far, I'm following this sequence to operate the radiators:

  • Press 0, to switch to single engine mode
  • Change radiator settings
  • Press 0 again, to switch back to dual engine mode

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#45 LukeFF

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 18:06

Luke, you say yaw trim. But you can't map any yaw trim. There is aileron and rudder trim.
So yaw trim is that a combined of the two or?

 

Yaw trim is rudder trim.


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#46 Sturmalex

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 11:24

Hello,

 

is there any reason that the Bf110 has the DB601A and not the DB601N? I am not super mad about it (although I think the 110 could use the extra 150hp pretty good).

I would just want some explanation from the devs why they decided to put the A instead of the N onto the airframe.

 

best wishes

 

Steiner


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#47 [CPT]Pike*HarryM

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 16:18

Re: the fuel system and lights, this is what the Brits found.

 

110fuel_zps4i6ftoqb.jpg


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#48 I./ZG1_Mprhead

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 17:26

There is actually at least one book stating that E-1 and -2 have DB601A engines, namely Messerschmitt Bf 110/Me 210/Me 410; An Illustrated History by Mankau and Petrick. So maybe devs had same info. Hopefully it gets corrected at some point.


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#49 Vespa

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 17:43

Mhhh....really interesting.

So...I don't understand if, in game, the fuel switching needs to be operated manually or it's automatic when the white lights flash on.

Thanks


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#50 [CPT]Pike*HarryM

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 20:27

It's automatic. The bottom red lights go on when the aft (reserve) tanks are empty. I would think that in real life that was to let the pilot know he should turn off the pumps soon, as it is bad to run the pumps without liquid. 


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#51 kestrel79

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 01:25

What do you guys set your water and oil rads to on the 110?


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#52 AnthonyP

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 03:49

25% for both seems to work quite well, at least for summertime. I've been setting it to that when I'm up and left it like that for the duration of the flight. Never had any issues, temperatures appear to be stable and appropriate.


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#53 Vespa

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 23:05

Talking about prop feathering...I see CTRL + F as combination key but it doesn't work. Can anyone explain the correct procedure to feather prop when an engine is damaged?

Thanks


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#54 FuriousMeow

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 00:57

All you have to do is select the engine, feather, and select back to just the live engine to only control that one. I successfully flew a 110E-2 on the deck with one engine only for over a half hour using a combination of 15deg flaps, shutting off the radiator and oil rad on the dead engine with the prop feathered and maintaining a yaw towards the live engine and occasionally overrevving to gain a bit of alt (not maxing out but 1.3ATA) because I couldn't accurately trim the elevator to maintain the best level and was bouncing up and down. I was at around 300meters when the engine went and lost about 200km messing around with the controls to get the engine fully disabled with the radiators fully closed.


Edited by FuriousMeow, 05 December 2015 - 00:58.

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#55 SharpeXB

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Posted 05 December 2015 - 16:49

I just figured out that the props both rotate in the same direction. So it pulls to one side just like a single engine plane. That would explain why my ground handling and take offs were so amazingly awful. Now that I understand this I'm doing much better... :-D
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#56 L3Pl4K

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 13:07

Hello has someone the correct Flap settings for take off and landing?


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#57 F/JG300_Gruber

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 16:17

Don't know for in game. 

 

But the original messerschmitt manual for the Bf110 C series (or at least it's translation here : http://www.theairtac....php?id=hbf110c) says 20° for take of and full 50° for landing unless there is a strong wind.

 

It's working good for me.

 

Also if I remember correctly, Cpt Eric Brown says that take off is well possible without flaps, but on the heavier G2 model, you definitely want to use the 20°. (Don't quote me on that though). So with a heavy bombload, 20° sounds good for the E2 too. 


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#58 F/JG300_Gruber

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 16:34

All you have to do is select the engine, feather, and select back to just the live engine to only control that one. I successfully flew a 110E-2 on the deck with one engine only for over a half hour using a combination of 15deg flaps, shutting off the radiator and oil rad on the dead engine with the prop feathered and maintaining a yaw towards the live engine and occasionally overrevving to gain a bit of alt (not maxing out but 1.3ATA) because I couldn't accurately trim the elevator to maintain the best level and was bouncing up and down. I was at around 300meters when the engine went and lost about 200km messing around with the controls to get the engine fully disabled with the radiators fully closed.

 

 

Hi furiousMeow,

 

Extending flaps is the last thing you want to do if you have an engine failure. 

The little gain in lift is completely negated by the substantial extra drag caused and this is why you had to overrev your living engine to get some altitude. In modern flying procedures on twin-engined aircrafts, after powering up the living engine, the next step is to remove any possible drag source, flaps being the first one to check for.

 

Next time it happens, try to do as you did (closing rads, feather and stuffs) but without the flaps part. By experience, the E2 can easily keep a cruise speed of 290-300km/h down the deck on one engine, and gain some altitude without problem staying in combat power settings. 

 

Additionally it may make the aircraft easier to trim on the yaw axis as you need a bit less power to keep it in flight (but that also depends on which engine fails)

 

:salute:


Edited by F/JG300_Gruber, 30 December 2015 - 16:39.

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#59 L3Pl4K

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 19:28

Don't know for in game. 

 

But the original messerschmitt manual for the Bf110 C series (or at least it's translation here : http://www.theairtac....php?id=hbf110c) says 20° for take of and full 50° for landing unless there is a strong wind.

 

It's working good for me.

 

Also if I remember correctly, Cpt Eric Brown says that take off is well possible without flaps, but on the heavier G2 model, you definitely want to use the 20°. (Don't quote me on that though). So with a heavy bombload, 20° sounds good for the E2 too. 

 

Thanks for awnser, i use 20° for take off to, but never more then 30 for landing... i will try the 50 in my next sortie


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#60 6./ZG26_Emil

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 19:30

Thanks for awnser, i use 20° for take off to, but never more then 30 for landing... i will try the 50 in my next sortie

 

We tend to use 20-25% depending on payload


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#61 Vol

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:22

Who knows why the aileron trimmer does not work on the Me-110E2?
They appeared to the series C, drawn in the game, but does not work.

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#62 LukeFF

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 19:18

 

Who knows why the aileron trimmer does not work on the Me-110E2?
They appeared to the series C, drawn in the game, but does not work.

 

 

It doesn't have aileron trim.


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#63 Vol

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 00:08

It doesn't have aileron trim.

what's that?

Attached File  2.jpg   379.08KB   2 downloads


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#64 LukeFF

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 19:04

what's that?

attachicon.gif2.jpg

 

Trim tabs only adjustable on the ground? If not, where exactly are the aileron trim controls in the cockpit?


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#65 Vol

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 00:51

Trim tabs only adjustable on the ground? If not, where exactly are the aileron trim controls in the cockpit?

I thought that only the plates are regulated on the ground. If the trimmer is also regulated on the ground, then it is understandable. Thank you! :salute:


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#66 Frederf220

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 08:11

Yes aileron tabs are externally settable without cockpit control.

 

For oil radiator levers: toward floor should be open and upward is shut. In BoS it is reversed.

 

Takeoff flaps are 20 degrees recommended but less is permitted.

 

Propeller pitch control is 4 position: finer, neutral, coarser, and feather. The propeller can be set to any pitch within a range. To feather the levers are pushed farther down past the coarse position. Once past the working range pitch cannot be stopped at any value until reaching the full feathered one. But a fully secured and feathered engine can be returned to normal operation in flight provided it was secured without damage.

 

The four tank lights (red) are going on at 90L and off at 100L each to prevent flickering.

 

BoS is also using the fuel in an incorrect order. The fuel is used from 1, 2 tanks which may be filled manually from 3, 4 tanks. Given partial fuel load it would be 1,2 at maximum and 3,4 carrying any amount which does not fit in the main tanks. If BoS if you spawn with reduced fuel 1, 2 are empty and 3, 4 have fuel. The engines would quit in this condition.


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#67 LukeFF

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:12

Yes aileron tabs are externally settable without cockpit control.

 

For oil radiator levers: toward floor should be open and upward is shut. In BoS it is reversed.

 

Takeoff flaps are 20 degrees recommended but less is permitted.

 

Propeller pitch control is 4 position: finer, neutral, coarser, and feather. The propeller can be set to any pitch within a range. To feather the levers are pushed farther down past the coarse position. Once past the working range pitch cannot be stopped at any value until reaching the full feathered one. But a fully secured and feathered engine can be returned to normal operation in flight provided it was secured without damage.

 

The four tank lights (red) are going on at 90L and off at 100L each to prevent flickering.

 

BoS is also using the fuel in an incorrect order. The fuel is used from 1, 2 tanks which may be filled manually from 3, 4 tanks. Given partial fuel load it would be 1,2 at maximum and 3,4 carrying any amount which does not fit in the main tanks. If BoS if you spawn with reduced fuel 1, 2 are empty and 3, 4 have fuel. The engines would quit in this condition.

 

It's best to send this sort of info to the developers (e.g., Han) with supporting evidence.


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#68 TG-55Panthercules

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 18:05

I've read through this thread and looked at the guide/pictures - very helpful.  But in trying to set up my controls so I could fly the 110 in VR, I'm struggling with a couple of things, so I'm hoping someone familiar with the 110 and BoS control setups can help me here.

 

Mainly, I'm having real problems trying to figure out how to control the engines separately - as a general matter, some things (e.g., throttle, mixture) seem to be able to be assigned on a per-engine basis, but other things (e.g., water and oil radiators for the 110) do not.  Although I would prefer to be able to assign separate buttons/controls to every function for each engine separately, I've been able to figure out how to toggle each engine control on/off and make the water and oil radiator switches work separately for each engine (or together for both engines when both engines are selected).  However, without the HUD/technochat on (I'll be flying with them off in VR) I can't figure out any way to know reliably which engine is selected for control.  Instead of having a single button toggle engine 1 control on/off, is there any way to assign separate buttons for the engine control on and off functions (i.e., separate button each for engine 1 control on and engine 1 control off, engine 2 control on, engine 2 control off)?  

 

What would be even better (IMHO) would be to be able to assign one button to engine 1 control (that would overide any previously selected choice so only engine 1 would be active), another button to engine 2 control (that would overide any previously selected choice so only engine 2 would be active), and a third button to all engines control (that would overide any previously selected choice so all engines would be active).  Any way to make it work this way under current conditions, or is this something that would need to be suggested to the devs?

 

Also, when I hit the prop pitch control I see the little handles moving in the cockpit (although they appear to be moving backwards if I'm interpreting the German labels correctly), but I don't get any technochat messages about it - does that only work in some specific circumstances? (like do I need to toggle into manual mode or something?)


Edited by TG-55Panthercules, 14 August 2017 - 22:28.

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#69 =TBAS=Sshadow14

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 13:19

Just don't fly by the rated specs on specs page you will severely nerf the planes power Specially the E2 but even the G2 (must slower on rated specs versus actual limits..
Fly by the actual Operational limits of the plane and engine.

This will Require you to have hud on till you write them all down.
then fly the plane with throttle set so its at MAX Combat power but not switching into Emergency mode!
This is the new Max 30 min Power Limit (not those stated in specs)

should be about 79% Throttle in E2 and 83% throttle in G2 (you will hear the extra turbo starting to spool a bit but it wont go into emergency power unless you drop AoA
(or 1.26ATA for E2 and 1.299 ATA for G2 If i remember right)

Same in like 109 F2 its rated max is 1.25 ATA for 30 mins
but you can happily run 1.299999 ATA for 30 mins ASLONG AS IT SAYS COMBAT POWER and not flicking to emergency.

Same 111 Rated max 1.25Ata but will run 1.32 ata 30 mins no issues.


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#70 TG-55Panthercules

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 17:19

Thanks for that info - I finally managed to get my E2 airborne yesterday using my new VR controller setup (having way more trouble just taxiing than I expected to), but toasted both engines shortly thereafter.  Was so focused on the mechanics of just taking off (and trying to miss the trees at the end of the runway) that I think I lost track of some of the engine/temp gauges, but I think it will be helpful running some more experiments using the info above.


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#71 Yogiflight

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 21:41

Did you open oil and water radiator, as they are closed at the mission start?


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#72 TG-55Panthercules

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 21:49

Did you open oil and water radiator, as they are closed at the mission start?

 

Yep - did that just before starting my takeoff roll.  Maybe I should have opened them before taxiing, especially since it took a bit longer than I thought it would to get to the runway (still having a lot of trouble keeping it taxiing in a reasonably straight line - seems to want to swing around in circles a lot more than I expected).  Gonna take more practice, that's for sure.  Still mostly just trying to figure out if my control setup is going to be workable when I'm in VR, and hopefully not just for the 110 but also for some of the other twins (e.g., Ju-88 and Pe-2) as well as the IL-2 and Ju-87.


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#73 Yogiflight

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 21:57

Closed radiators shouldn't be an issue at taxing in BOX. This is not modelled correctly, here in game the aircrafts cool down as long as you are with few power on the ground.

Taxing is indeed challenging, I use very few power, around 1000 RPM and 400-500 RPM more on the left engine.


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#74 TG-55Panthercules

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 03:26

The tips above were very helpful - did much better that time.  I managed to taxi just fine, although I did spin it around an extra time trying to turn around right at the start of the runway.  At any rate, I did manage to get it up in the air and fly around for at least 15 minutes or so without toasting my engines.  Tried several approaches to a short airfield I found  (after flying around lost for a while), but never seemed to hit on the right answer - kept coming in way too hot, and after a couple of go-arounds I finally just put her down (with predictable results - snapped off my gear and belly-landed, but at least we both survived and the plane should be repairable with a little effort)   :)

 

The VR-based control setup I was running seemed to work well, so I think my next set of tests will be able to be with my VR headset on - looking forward to that.  If only I can remember to close my canopy before take-off next time - I can confirm that the dev notes are right that you can't open (or close) the canopy once you're in flight  :fool:


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#75 I./ZG1_Grim

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 07:26

You can open it...one time :)

Step by step, keep going.


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