PERFORMANCE ISSUES and frame rate issues.

[MadisonV44]

Not hardly the case. They certainly do care, but it's hard to track down an issue when not everyone is having the problem being described by some here. So please, stop with the bashing of the team. It's unproductive and doesn't help anyone or anything. 

 

FWIW, my background is in IT.

 

Luke don't misinterpret my words, no bashing of the team here, especially on their great development job. Only a statement regarding the communication. 

 

A longer sentence could have been, "blablabla those guys really care about us to provide the best sim ever blablabla but for the moment they don't really care about communication on a serious performance issue obviously". So what, my approach is too rude ? I did not respect the convention ? Is it disrespectful just alerting the devs for the good cause on something serious ?

 

Here is what I really think :  the devs are not yet aware and have not been alerted on it and I will tell you why : Instead of forwarding the information to devs or asking us additional questions to qualify, you suspect us, stating that it is just "described by some here", that we are just a few, that we are not representative. Obviously it seems that you have a doubt about the sincerity of all the people complaining here (+ others threads on the forum) ! All those people will appreciate spending their time to help without any recognition in return.   

 

Actually I've got 3 questions for you : Luke, as a Tester what is your own point of view about the problem described here ? Do you really think that all those BOS supporters are writing just to populate the forum ? Are you considering to escalate the problem as a tester ?    

 

As a responsible guys, Mastiff (also a tester) had a completely different approach :   

1 exchanging with us to understand the problem

2 offering some help and good hints,

3 proposing to forward our reporting to the devs

 

Thanks to him 

 

FWIW, my background is in hardcore sim, and I bought this sim in beta to support the team.

[VBF-12_Snake9]

Sorry no insults. Just questions.

 

How many testers are there?

 

Did any find and report the problem?

 

Do the devs even listen to the testers?

 

How different are the testers systems? High end. Low end. Ati. Nvidia.

 

Not trying to be mean, but something is not working in this equation for this problem to keep repeating itself. That is the definition of insanity.

 

No hard feelings.

Life is all good.

[Urra]

It would be great if the sales from the game so far gave the company enough of a sure footing to invest in an engine upgrade, but after taxes, insurance, employee benefits, and investor returns, there might not be all that much left for what we hope for most.

[JGr2/J5_W0LF-]

I am willing to bet that our problem lies within those pesky drivable tanks. I personally haven't even tried them and can careless about tanks when this is a flight sim after all. I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say it's them cause now the game has to deal with not just planes that shoot and move around by players but tanks as well. It's just my to cents but make the tanks non driveable again see if it helps. Then the computer cpu and memory can just concentrate on the aircraft again.

Edited December 3, 2015 by 4./JG53_Badger

[LukeFF]

Actually I've got 3 questions for you : Luke, as a Tester what is your own point of view about the problem described here ? Do you really think that all those BOS supporters are writing just to populate the forum ? Are you considering to escalate the problem as a tester ?

 

My point of view here about this problem here is that it's not a universal issue, and as I've not experienced the problem myself, no, I'm not going to report it up the chain to the devs. My job isn't to be tech support and investigate every single issue that is reported here on the forum. However, when I do see a problem/bug with the game that is easily reproducible, then yes, I do report those issues in the testing forum. I do that all the time. 

 

 

How many testers are there?

 

Did any find and report the problem?

 

Do the devs even listen to the testers?

 

How different are the testers systems? High end. Low end. Ati. Nvidia.

 

 

Not answering the first three questions, because it's not my place to divulge that sort of info. As for my system - GTX 680, 16GB RAM, Core i7-4790K, 4.00GHz

Edited December 3, 2015 by LukeFF

[NN_RugbyGoth]

Yesterday I installed my new graphic card (GTX960 with 4Gb of RAM)

 

No-more stuttering, fluid game on a very stable server (SUPERDUPONT) without tanks, FPS on the ground as low as 28 with 12 planes at parking, as high as 120 fps at 5000m looking up. Average sould be around 70fps.

 

VRAM seems to be a key point, so when you are giving your system, please share your amound VRAM 

[Reflected]

I tried MAstiff's settings and I still get stutters.

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Yesterday I installed my new graphic card (GTX960 with 4Gb of RAM)

 

No-more stuttering, fluid game on a very stable server (SUPERDUPONT) without tanks, FPS on the ground as low as 28 with 12 planes at parking, as high as 120 fps at 5000m looking up. Average sould be around 70fps.

 

VRAM seems to be a key point, so when you are giving your system, please share your amound VRAM 

Similar expirience for me (MSI GTX 970, 3.5 + 0.5 GB VRam) but I do get microstrutters every 2 sec. I also noticed that afterburner shows me 450 MB graphic memory usage when launching the game in the menu. When startin a mission (no matter if SP or MP) memory usage rises to 3,5-3,6GB and remains there, even when returning to the menu again. Memory usage will drop only after closing the game completely.

 

I guess sth similar is happening with CPU usage but I haven't checked that specifically yet. Still a very weird behaviour.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[Dutchvdm]

I tested yesterday with fraps and i'm getting between 80 and 120 frames in SP and solo flight. In PWCG with a formations of 4 Heinkels this number drops to about 30 frames. I don't want to be rude, but i find this ridiculous. I know the engine has trouble with large numbers of AI planes but this seems more like a design-flaw.

 

Grt Martijn   

[MadisonV44]

I tested yesterday with fraps and i'm getting between 80 and 120 frames in SP and solo flight. In PWCG with a formations of 4 Heinkels this number drops to about 30 frames. I don't want to be rude, but i find this ridiculous. I know the engine has trouble with large numbers of AI planes but this seems more like a design-flaw.

 

Grt Martijn   

 

Unfortunately micro stutters don't generate loss of FPS. The problem you describe existed before 1.105.

But I must admit it would require an optimization two because flying with a group of bombers is a bad experience.  

[MadisonV44]

My point of view here about this problem here is that it's not a universal issue, and as I've not experienced the problem myself, no, I'm not going to report it up the chain to the devs. My job isn't to be tech support and investigate every single issue that is reported here on the forum. However, when I do see a problem/bug with the game that is easily reproducible, then yes, I do report those issues in the testing forum. I do that all the time. 

 

Client care is not in your job "description" ... maybe it could become a business "restriction" for the company at the end lol ... I never saw it written in black and white, that's a "premiere". As I already said above, all those people unable to take full advantage of their investment will appreciate spending their time to help and report without any recognition in return and such attitude. I salute your honesty, anyway.

 

To come back to the point you said you did not experienced the problem by yourself. As a recap, just remember it is mainly an ONLINE issue, on populated servers like WoL, especially on autumn and Summer Maps. Never saw you avatar on WoL ... did you spent enough time on it, engaging on a hot spot on a summer map (then you should meet the issue) or maybe are you only testing on a sand-box environment only ? 

 

Myself I have no problem Offline (unless I populate a mission with plenty of fighters and bombers).

Also online is almost ok up to 30 players, not perfect, with annoying stutters, but playable on the hot spots. For the majority who plays on >80 pilots servers like WoL it is a nightmare since 1.105. Unfortunately WoL is the only one ... and reporting the problem of hundreds of people is not in your job description !

 

Wonderful World 

[DD_Arthur]

16 plane dogfight Stalingrad summer map at low level.

 

 

Something does seem to have changed regards performance with this latest patch.  I think I've lost around 10fps overall with added micro stutters too though they're not as bad when running the game as seems in the video above - I think thats more to do with video compression and YouTube upload.

 

I'm running an Intel i930 @ 3.8ghz with 12 gigs of RAM and an Nvidia 660ti 3mb vram on 1680 x 1060 22" monitor.   My game settings are Ultra with SSAO and HDR off, V-Sync on, 4 x AA and 2 x sparse grid super sampling through Nvidia Inspector and SweetFX/reshade 2.0;  so yeah, I'm pushing my system. 

 

I'm confident they'll sort it.

Edited December 3, 2015 by DD_Arthur

[Ala13_Super6_1]

Although the developers do not speak out about it, I hope and wish that solve the performance in the below chart patch.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

NVIDIA changes, NVIDIA changes, NVIDIA changes, I would start reporting your issue with NVIDIA flood their community forum with this issue. With my GTX 980 6gb TI Im not having issues as micro stutters, my issues is right after the NVIDIA 359.06 has dropped my FPS on ground WOL server to 37, in the air 46 to 52.

Edited December 3, 2015 by 71st_Mastiff

[MadisonV44]

Although the developers do not speak out about it, I hope and wish that solve the performance in the below chart patch.

 

+1 

Hope it is in their job description also

Cross fingers 

[MadisonV44]

NVIDIA changes, NVIDIA changes, NVIDIA changes, I would start reporting your issue with NVIDIA flood their community forum with this issue. With my GTX 980 6gb TI Im not having issues as micro stutters, my issues is right after the NVIDIA 359.06 has dropped my FPS on ground WOL server to 37, in the air 46 to 52.

Interesting Mastiff, thank you for sharing with us.

 

Unfortunately I had the same stutters with the prvious Nvidia Drivers prior to 359 (I've done some test with 347.x and 358.x and I get the same stutters. Maybe switching to more recent update like 359.06 aggravate the situation, so I won't update my Nvidia driver. Thank you for the information again.

[richtervonboyce]

So I here nonstop about nividia how about ati? my system specs are r9 290x 4gb of vram, FX 8 core 4.0ghz, windows 7 64bits 16gb of ram. I can play war thunder on max, planet side two on max, rise of flight on max, silent hunter 5 on max but bos is full of issues still. so whats is the problem? BOS is the problem not my system.

[LY_LCT_ZaltysZ]

VRAM seems to be a key point, so when you are giving your system, please share your amound VRAM 

 

BoS is very conservative regarding VRAM usage. If have 4GB, but BoS uses only about 2.2GB at maxed out settings (4x range included). If I drop range to normal, usage drops to 1.2GB.

[Antiguo]

Hi

... Which way to move from us ..... is incredible,

 I have found the solution: stop flying  and go with your wife to do other tasks ....

 

and I am not insulting or rude to anyone 

 

((I hope I may understand I use a traducctor )

 

BYE 

[JG5_Schuck]

Nvidia drivers don't seem to be the problem.

Im running 355.82 from 31/08/2015. And my game ran fine through several updates, until the last one.

 

Running an I7 3930k @ 4ghz, 16GB HyperX, GTX 780Ti 2560x1440 @144 MHz. No V-sync, use Nvidia G-sync. Frame rates are fine just micro stutters?

 

No problems before the update.......Problems after the update!

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

So 64bits is the answer to all our problems then?

 

Part of our problems. Another thing would be upgrading to DirectX 12 or even 11 (considering the performance increases we saw in DCS 1.5 compared to 1.2)

[coconut]

Regarding the silence of the devs: They tend to stay silent until they have something implemented ready to show. Can be frustrating at times, but I have hopes they will fix this. There was another episode with horribly blurry terrain textures that got fixed in the end.

 

I would say for the time being be patient, give as much info as you can: Are you experiencing frame drops or stuttering (or both)? These two things are different. Relevant hardware info includes:

• CPU
• GPU and drivers
• SSD or HD?
• OS (especially if you are running a 32-bit OS, that seems to give problems)

[VBF-12_Snake9]

 

 

Not answering the first three questions

 

Thanks.  You not answering the questions . . . answers the questions.  

 

I see why they continue to have problems.  Maybe they can solve things quickly though.     

[Voidhunger]

I just upgraded to new nvidia drivers and nothing changed. I had always stutters (offline) since the BOS beta. Tech support told me thats normal with my rig so i bought new one. Nothing changed.

Now with the new update i have sometimes massive fps slowdowns here and there, with or without AI planes around.

[XQ_Lothar29]

I tried MAstiff's settings and I still get stutters.

equal for me reflectet. only help me is desactivated into the settings game FPS limiter in OFF, and lower level Graphics .. this is not solution

 

I could run the simulator before, a maximum of graphics

[SYN_Mike77]

This has got to be the toughest thing for software developers to deal with.  An inconsistent problem.  In this instance, most people don't have the problem but some people have it bad.  To add to the problem is the fact that this problem is doubly inconsistent.  There is no rhyme or reason to who has the problem.  Some of those who have the problem have lower level rigs but others with similar rigs don't. Some of the people who have this problem have much more robust rigs than those who don't.  Some people can fix this problem on their own with various tweaks (I count myself to be lucky to be in this camp); others with the same video card see no or little improvement. Inconsistencies piled on inconsistencies.  From what I have read, this is why so many game developers have shifted to consoles over PC's .  Most (all?) of the inconsistencies are taken care of with consoles. 

 

Oh, I almost forgot;  sometimes the problem is the end user is a doofus!  Check back to the beginning of this thread and you will see me in a panic over blue screen crashes after the update.  Turns out I disconnected my printer incorrectly a day or two before the update and that was the cause of those crashes    Hard to blame that one on the devs!

[Mmaruda]

This has got to be the toughest thing for software developers to deal with.  An inconsistent problem.  In this instance, most people don't have the problem but some people have it bad.  To add to the problem is the fact that this problem is doubly inconsistent.  There is no rhyme or reason to who has the problem.  Some of those who have the problem have lower level rigs but others with similar rigs don't. Some of the people who have this problem have much more robust rigs than those who don't.  Some people can fix this problem on their own with various tweaks (I count myself to be lucky to be in this camp); others with the same video card see no or little improvement. Inconsistencies piled on inconsistencies.  From what I have read, this is why so many game developers have shifted to consoles over PC's .  Most (all?) of the inconsistencies are taken care of with consoles. 

 

Oh, I almost forgot;  sometimes the problem is the end user is a doofus!  Check back to the beginning of this thread and you will see me in a panic over blue screen crashes after the update.  Turns out I disconnected my printer incorrectly a day or two before the update and that was the cause of those crashes    Hard to blame that one on the devs!

 

You are both wrong and mildly offensive to some people who contribute to the game's bug-fixing process on a regular basis. This can be a hardware fault, a software fault, a user fault or a memeory leak in BOS, or maybe wrong driver handling, or bad texture formats or anything else. That is why we have this discussion, beacuse clearly if something was working ok before a patch and is not working properly after a patch the simplest solution is the right one - the patch broke something. We have the discussion to determine where the fault lies and how to fix it - people coming here and saying "It's working fine for me, clearly something wrong on your side" are just derailing the discussion irritating those who suffer the fault. In other words, YOU ARE NOT HELPING! You are also causing the devs additonal work by posting not very usefull stuff they have to read anyway to gather the info on the problem. Working good for you? Cool, go play the game, don't hijack the thread.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

You are both wrong and mildly offensive to some people who contribute to the game's bug-fixing process on a regular basis. This can be a hardware fault, a software fault, a user fault or a memeory leak in BOS, or maybe wrong driver handling, or bad texture formats or anything else. That is why we have this discussion, beacuse clearly if something was working ok before a patch and is not working properly after a patch the simplest solution is the right one - the patch broke something. We have the discussion to determine where the fault lies and how to fix it - people coming here and saying "It's working fine for me, clearly something wrong on your side" are just derailing the discussion irritating those who suffer the fault. In other words, YOU ARE NOT HELPING! You are also causing the devs additonal work by posting not very usefull stuff they have to read anyway to gather the info on the problem. Working good for you? Cool, go play the game, don't hijack the thread.

you responding to that post is case in point...

 

please everyone with an opinion walk away from the Keyboard...

Edited December 4, 2015 by 71st_Mastiff

[XQ_Lothar29]

You are both wrong and mildly offensive to some people who contribute to the game's bug-fixing process on a regular basis. This can be a hardware fault, a software fault, a user fault or a memeory leak in BOS, or maybe wrong driver handling, or bad texture formats or anything else. That is why we have this discussion, beacuse clearly if something was working ok before a patch and is not working properly after a patch the simplest solution is the right one - the patch broke something. We have the discussion to determine where the fault lies and how to fix it - people coming here and saying "It's working fine for me, clearly something wrong on your side" are just derailing the discussion irritating those who suffer the fault. In other words, YOU ARE NOT HELPING! You are also causing the devs additonal work by posting not very usefull stuff they have to read anyway to gather the info on the problem. Working good for you? Cool, go play the game, don't hijack the thread.

+10000

[SYN_Mike77]

You are both wrong and mildly offensive to some people who contribute to the game's bug-fixing process on a regular basis. This can be a hardware fault, a software fault, a user fault or a memeory leak in BOS, or maybe wrong driver handling, or bad texture formats or anything else. That is why we have this discussion, beacuse clearly if something was working ok before a patch and is not working properly after a patch the simplest solution is the right one - the patch broke something. We have the discussion to determine where the fault lies and how to fix it - people coming here and saying "It's working fine for me, clearly something wrong on your side" are just derailing the discussion irritating those who suffer the fault. In other words, YOU ARE NOT HELPING! You are also causing the devs additonal work by posting not very usefull stuff they have to read anyway to gather the info on the problem. Working good for you? Cool, go play the game, don't hijack the thread.

Huh?How was my post offensive?  I had this problem and this thread fixed it for me.  (thanks to Mastiff.) I'm just pointing out that it is going to be a very hard problem for them to fix.  No where did I say that the problem is only on the users side.  But clearly, for most people this last update was nothing but good news.  It's going to take a while to figure out why it's a problem for a minority of users.

[Dakpilot]

^^^^ Mmaruda

 

Bed , wrong side , got out of ? today

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited December 4, 2015 by Dakpilot

[XQ_Lothar29]

you responding to that post is case in point...

 

please everyone with an opinion walk away from the Keyboard...

Mastiff Friend, 

 

to me it will give me bad UPDATE, you know what irritates me that any developer say anything?

 

or even come members, say it is possible that the error is in my PC, if I really went above the perfect simulator. There may be more than 1,105 patch is having some sort of problem,  From my point of View, Yes, this last update is very big bug

[MadisonV44]

people coming here and saying "It's working fine for me, clearly something wrong on your side" are just derailing the discussion irritating those who suffer the fault. In other words, YOU ARE NOT HELPING! 

 

+1 

 

The performance issue is very perceptible in MP and it seems those people don't often fly online on very populated server (where the issue occurs a lot). It's not a criticism, some people can not fly everyday online. 

 

The more you fly the sooner you will come at the evidence. If you have any doubt rejoin us on WoL on a crowded summer mission, target a hot spot and tell us your feeling with precise information. I asked LukeFF if he is conducting his tests online on crowded missions, I had no answer.  

[Dakpilot]

If everyone had their specs in their sig and collected a performance log in MSI afterburner or similar it could go a long way to help find the issue in a more speedy way.

 

I think you misunderstand LukesFF's roll as a 'Tester'

 

trouble with multi language sites is the ease of offence some people take due to communication difficulties, are we all including Dev's Testers and players not looking for the same goal ?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[SYN_Haashashin]

Hi all,

 

Im gonna take a lil time to respond around here...

 

When Luke said its not in his job description I think all of you got it just wrong. Been a Beta Tester is not a job, no money involve and you can test the time you want with no obligations made by the dev team. I thought this was obvious but it seems its not.

 

 

Although the developers do not speak out about it,.

 

Super, It seems you and lots just missed one point. The devs do not speak about everything but still things that are been spoke here (BoS Fórum bug report section) gets done/resolved. Without the devs saying they will do it so I dont see where is this devs do not speak about it is coming from. As been said, not all have problems with performance so Its not a urgent thing to fix and for them speak about it. This is my personal opinión and based on the past actions of this devs team when severe bugs that affect the mayority shows up, anyone remember the flying trees in RoF???

 

Also is clear over at the Questions for developers topic that future optimization is on the pipeline, which im sure means better performance...this is what its posted there:

 

 

3kilos, on 27 Nov 2015 - 21:35, said:

 

My question is if and when can we expect some more work on the optimization side ...

 

Han: 1st Dec (postpacth) said:

Yes

 

If you wanna see the original..here it is: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/page-54 Post 2145

 

S!

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Yes they are working on optimization; and micro stutters, hope for a fix by the release of 1106.

[Ala13_Super6_1]

 

 

As been said, not all have problems with performance so Its not a urgent thing to fix and for them speak about it.

 

If this is not an urgent thing to fix, better ourselves to simulate with Barbie dolls.

[MadisonV44]

Yes they are working on optimization; and micro stutters, hope for a fix by the release of 1106.

 

Let's cross fingers ! Would be a real good news

[SYN_Haashashin]

If this is not an urgent thing to fix, better ourselves to simulate with Barbie dolls.

 

Please Super if you are gonna quote me please use the whole sentence. You forgot to put the part where I said is my personal opinion. So for me its not that urgent since I dont think the mayor part of the community is getting this problems.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

 

example of the micro stutters I believe you guys are talking about.