Would you rather have a new Battle of X that follows BOM and BOS(plane capabilities) or would you like something new?

[74_jim_nihilist]

I was the Air team lead for Admiral's Edition.  WitP is niche, but you can hardly compare the two... 

 

The Pacific done right yields US Navy, USMC, USAAC, IJN, IJAAF, New Zealand, RAAF, RN, RAF.  Plenty of action, plenty of variety in Aircraft, and the point of a new theater isn't necessarily to make the Russian flight sim community happy, its to add revenue and open the throttle of the BoS engine.  Until that happens the development future is in jeopardy. 

They will have to decide what brings the most revenue. Sure they have to grow, but if you neglect the majority of your customer base it can be very fatal.

 

Sure you will reach out to customers which weren't maybe interested before, but will those be enough to justify the expense, to make profit on the project? I somehow doubt it.

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Personally speaking I probably wouldn't buy a Pacific expansion (at least not right away) because while I have dabbled into those waters before for many years it kind of feels overdone. There are tons of movies about the Pacific, series about the Pacific, games set in the Pacific and meanwhile the Eastern Front gets anywhere between second-rate treatment and outright ignoring in the West.

 

Eastern Front and Mediterranean fronts get everyone in, while pacific kind of leaves the former Soviet republics and many European countries on the sidelines, regardless of the cool factor.

[Trinkof]

I have a dream - Battle of France 1940

 

My dream too. BOS engine.... And a D520... Man.... I won't say anymore, it would be nasty.

[LLv24_Zami]

A lot, on both sides. This battle was both land based (USAAF,  Dai-Nippon Teikoku Rikugun) and naval/carrier based (USMC, IJN)

I don't have to make ocean to mountains. Plenty of mountains, including one very big one on Guadalcanal. If you'd have any idea about WW2 in the Paficic you'd know that. You didn't know a thing about the pacific theatre, posted nonsense, and now you are trying to save you with those posts, but every single one exposes more and more, that you have no idea about that. You have compared it to Kursk mate, not me. The discussion is over now, there is just no basic knowledge on your side. Enough off topic anyway. 

I really don`t think it is my skin what needs rescuing here. For the remainder here is your post:http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/19243-would-you-rather-have-new-battle-x-follows-bom-and-bosplane/?p=303288

 

You are comparing with pictures from Kursk and PTO. PTO stands for Pacific theater and there vast majority is of the terrain is ocean. You put a picture of most diverse place you can find from Pacific and compare to it usual plain field in Kursk. You, not me. If you are comparing usual terrains between these two use plain field and plain ocean. So, you are trying to make ocean to mountains. The map is what it is!

 

What comes my question of the carriers, I was asking because thought you would have exact figures. I`m not an expert, I thought you are.

You are posting the nonsense here, you made the comparing and can`t take any feedback, just making insults from the first post you made. 

[Redwo1f]

Oh come on Zami, you are looking at both in a different scale. Yes, taken in totality, the Pacific front is largely water, but you are comparing it to Kursk...and what, the area in question is maybe 400x400 km? You can take the same 400x400 km area and present Pacific theater campaigns that are almost entirely land if you choose to (eg. New Guinea among others). Just because it is a Pacific theater battle does not explicitly mean miles of ocean are needed. Yes, there are many engagements where that is the case, but there are many that are not as well. 

[LLv24_Zami]

Oh come on Zami, you are looking at both in a different scale. Yes, taken in totality, the Pacific front is largely water, but you are comparing it to Kursk...and what, the area in question is maybe 400x400 km? You can take the same 400x400 km area and present Pacific theater campaigns that are almost entirely land if you choose to (eg. New Guinea among others). Just because it is a Pacific theater battle does not explicitly mean miles of ocean are needed. Yes, there are many engagements where that is the case, but there are many that are not as well. 

Yes, I thought this would come up. You can take the area of similar size as PTO from eastern front and things won`t change a bit   . The original comparison was made between Kursk and PTO with those pictures because he was replying my post earlier. 

 

Of course there is land in Pacific, never said there is not. 

 

In any case, I hope next theatre will be great, what ever it is 

[SOLIDKREATE]

Hs-123B-2

 

 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Finally something the P-40 can catch up with

 

Note: except on climb rate, as usual.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Lucas_From_Hell

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

Battle of France would be certainly interesting and cover a lot of early war planes that have not been modeled yet (and which could fit to both current scenarios).

 

Imagine a geman lineup like this:

 

Hs-123 B

Bf 109 E-3

Ju 87 B-1 (or B-2)

Do-17 E

 

Premium: Cr.42

 

As for the french the Morane certainly is an interesting aircraft.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Stab/JG26_5tuka

[TheElf]

Sure. How many carriers did operate in that area?

And you are comparing to the Kursk. It was a city, surrounded by villages and stuff. So plain fields don't really cover it.

You can yank this any way you want. You can't make ocean to mountains.

 

 

Battle of Santa Cruz Dude...MAJOR Carrier engagement that led to the Battle of Guadalcanal, the establishment of the Cactus Air Force and Japanese Tokyo Express response.  Guadalcanal was the second region in the South Pacific (After Port Moresby) to see heavy use of P-39s.   So much content here...

 

Check the link here...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Santa_Cruz_Islands

They will have to decide what brings the most revenue. Sure they have to grow, but if you neglect the majority of your customer base it can be very fatal.

 

Sure you will reach out to customers which weren't maybe interested before, but will those be enough to justify the expense, to make profit on the project? I somehow doubt it.

 

The majority of the customer base right now is the majority ONLY because they HAVEN'T expanded into other theaters.  To quote a famous baseball movie..."Buid it, and they will come..."

[TheElf]

Personally speaking I probably wouldn't buy a Pacific expansion (at least not right away) because while I have dabbled into those waters before for many years it kind of feels overdone. There are tons of movies about the Pacific, series about the Pacific, games set in the Pacific and meanwhile the Eastern Front gets anywhere between second-rate treatment and outright ignoring in the West.

 

Eastern Front and Mediterranean fronts get everyone in, while pacific kind of leaves the former Soviet republics and many European countries on the sidelines, regardless of the cool factor.

 

 

Name one high end AAA Combat flight sim produced in the last 10 years that focused on the Pacific.

 

As to the bold portion, you just explained why the customer base is primarily Russian, because the state of the Franchise leaves the West (excluding Germany) and Asia on the sidelines, regardless of the cool factor...

 

At some point those who favor an "an Eastern Front Ad Nauseum" approach to the development of this title HAVE to realize that it will never realize it's full potential in the marketplace until you bring everyone in from the cold.  What I see is a bunch of customers who are happily pining away for repetitive Theater releases to satisfy their personal desires to see a single front fully fleshed out to the exclusion of everything else.  It makes no business sense to me, and it puts everything done to this point at risk.  Do you realize what happens if this game stops making money?

 

It gets its plug pulled.  No money to continue developing, or one sales report that goes into the red.  Those that hold its purse strings stop supporting it.  And because of the way they designed it, if it is isn't supported no one can play it.  The servers go away...

 

Is that what everyone wants?  We need to think about the LONG term here.  Not just the next module, so I can get the FW-189 to fly over the endless Steppe.

 

Just my opinion, but I challenge anyone to find fault with the logic.

[No601_Swallow]

I feel your howl of longing, Elf, and I find myself pining for carrier ops, as well as a Palenbang  mk2 map (the original made by our very own magician, Prangster) but Kuban it has to be (sez he, humbly opining). Quite apart from giving us a channel map with which my squadron can practice (as we once did with '46) for the eventual IL2-BoB, it's got a great potential planeset that also meshes nicely with machines we already have.

 

Hopefully, the "market" for sims (I know we can all probably fit into a single minibus, but still) will be attracted by sheer quality, along the lines of 'build it and they will come' reasoning.

 

Personally, I find myself wanting the 777 Il-2 to revisit many of the maps and theatres  frequented by the original game, including the gulf of Finland, Lake Balaton, etc. But I think Kuban/Crimea would be the most fun and most varied.

 

Actually, as far as the pacific is concerned, I even got great mileage out of the Midway map. I'd love to see a BoS version of Midway!

 

C'mon, Loft, it's tiny...!

Edited November 14, 2015 by No601_Swallow

[TheElf]

I feel your howl of longing, Elf, and I find myself pining for carrier ops, as well as a Palenbang  mk2 map (the original made by our very own magician, Prangster) but Kuban it has to be (sez he, humbly opining). Quite apart from giving us a channel map with which my squadron can practice (as we once did with '46) for the eventual IL2-BoB, it's got a great potential planeset that also meshes nicely with machines we already have.

 

Hopefully, the "market" for sims (I know we can all probably fit into a single minibus, but still) will be attracted by sheer quality, along the lines of 'build it and they will come' reasoning.

 

Personally, I find myself wanting the 777 Il-2 to revisit many of the maps and theatres  frequented by the original game, including the gulf of Finland, Lake Balaton, etc. But I think Kuban/Crimea would be the most fun and most varied.

 

Actually, as far as the pacific is concerned, I even got great mileage out of the Midway map. I'd love to see a BoS version of Midway!

 

C'mon, Loft, it's tiny...!

 

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  While I probably come off as a PAC-whiner, I'm really more interested in the long term success of the Franchise.  I worry that it could all come crashing down around us, and where will we be then?  I think it's interesting that a poll run albeit on the English language section of the Forum leads us to a Med/North Africa volume next.  Of course no Russian-speakers probably participated in that...but I'd take it!  Someone also mentioned Battle of France, another small dream of mine which has seen little to no light of day in the Sim World...

 

Whatever comes next the underlying motivation for its selection needs to be for the good of the Franchise and that to me means a broader customer base.  Right now all the accolades are being spoken in Russian about this game, and that isn't going to get the word out to the rest of the world. Even if it did I fear many of those would fall on deaf ears as the Eastern Front is about as niche to them as the Pacific might be to those opposing it here...

 

Here is the poll.  I voted for Pacific ; )

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1316-poll-next-theatre-war/page-5

[TheElf]

A bomber night video from the IL-2 1946 days.  Bomber Night was a special friday night event.  All A/C are player controlled.  Forgive the low Res...they were different times...

 

Just to show that South Pacific isn't all Carrier on Carrier.  Waltzing Matilda was a New Guinea Map centered on the Japanese invasion of Milne Bay Aug 26, 1942

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6fX4BRwzZE

note the overlap with Lend Lease Aircraft... 

[TheElf]

for the Med Fans out there.  Starts slow, but picks up tremendously around 3:30.

 

[TheElf]

This is just great highlights from a normal night on the Zeke's Server.  Full real

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSbM6nXXNs4

Edited November 14, 2015 by TheElf

[Redwo1f]

If it is WW2, and they do a good job, I will buy it. I love aircraft, I love WW2 -- yes, I have preferences and desires where I would want them to go, but regardless, I will buy it anyway if it is a good product. I am betting there are more folks in this niche WW2 combat flight sim market that will behave like me than will ONLY purchase if it is a particular theater. Not saying that the market can't be grown, but I believe the demand is far more fixed than variable. That is all I got to say.

 

(P.S. - nice vids above )

Edited November 14, 2015 by Redwo1f

[LLv24_Zami]

Battle of Santa Cruz Dude...MAJOR Carrier engagement that led to the Battle of Guadalcanal, the establishment of the Cactus Air Force and Japanese Tokyo Express response.  Guadalcanal was the second region in the South Pacific (After Port Moresby) to see heavy use of P-39s.   So much content here...

 

Check the link here...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Santa_Cruz_Islands

 

Yes, that was a great battle indeed. But not exactly what I asked for when you compare this operations map to the post I was referring to:

 

 

Original post: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/19243-would-you-rather-have-new-battle-x-follows-bom-and-bosplane/?p=303459

 

But thanks!

If it is WW2, and they do a good job, I will buy it. I love aircraft, I love WW2 -- yes, I have preferences and desires where I would want them to go, but regardless, I will buy it anyway if it is a good product. I am betting there are more folks in this niche WW2 combat flight sim market that will behave like me than will ONLY purchase if it is a particular theater. Not saying that the market can't be grown, but I believe the demand is far more fixed than variable. That is all I got to say.

 

(P.S. - nice vids above )

+1

Edited November 14, 2015 by Zami

[KoN_]

Africa .

 

Italy .

 

 

With a Real campaign ..

 

And real Single player content .

[MicroShket]

 

 

Exactly. Other benefits to a Pacific Module

 

1. The map has only one season. Easier to make and only one version is necessary.

2. Many Pacific Maps have lots of water, lots of trees, and very little civilization.

3. Carrier operations become a possibility.

 

Early War Pacific Maps would have much overlap with Eastern Front

 

Battle of Port Moresby

 

Allies

 

P-39 (also Eastern Front)

F4F-3

SBD-3

TBD Devastator

 

Already have P-40 but could add an earlier Variant

 

Premium

A-20 (Comatible with VVS Lend Lease)

 

 

Release a special edition Flying boat

PBY-3 (compatible with VVS Lend Lease)

 

Axis

 

A6M2 Zero

G4M Betty

D3A Val

B5N Kate

 

Premium

G3M Nell

 

Release a special edition flying boat afterward

Kawanishi Type 97 "Mavis"

 

Map would be Eastern portion of Papua New Guinea and New Britain (where Rabual is).

 

If you added carriers you could fight both Port Moresby and the Coral Sea, and later the advance on Rabaul by P-38s, P-47s, and Corsairs vs. Ki-61, Ki-43 II, and A6M3 and A6M5

 

I'd prefer to replace PBY with B-26A or B. It is excellent aircraft, which could have interesting unlocks (see Marauders of 22nd, 38th BG for example).

I really wait for CBI or PTO in Il-2 with F4U-1, P-38G, B-26, A-36A and all japanese aircrafts.

Unfortunately me and my friend can't spent alot of time on BoS/M because we don't need Eastern front. :<

[[CPT]milopugdog]

I'd like to see a pacific theater, but there's no rushing it. What's the point of one theater if you'll just abandon it halfway for another one? It's almost how I feel when looking at RoF. All the planes come together come together for the whole time period, but you can tell that some areas are focused on more than the others. 

[74_jim_nihilist]

The majority of the customer base right now is the majority ONLY because they HAVEN'T expanded into other theaters.  To quote a famous baseball movie..."Buid it, and they will come..."

I guess you don't have to live off of creative entertainment products? It is not as easy as you think. You have to pay your rent monthly. One dud or not enough growth with the next title and you are out of the game.

[Brano]

IIRC old il2 Pacific Figters add-on almost didnt happen.It was in fact 3rd party iniciative,which didnt run well and it was saved at the end by oleg.Only that it was kind of half-release.Does anyone remember the limited planeset without flyable essentials like Devastator,Kate,Avenger...and not to forget generic battleships for US and Japan (King George V if my memory serves me well) and other issues like no catapult on US carriers and very limited map set. 

 If there is really such a demand (which is not IMO), thats perfect ground for another PC studio to step in and make it.It is too much workcontent,research,diverse environment and technology to be embraced by 1CGS only.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

i am more concerned about a possible debacle concering "trademarks" of US planes.... remember?

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Klunk, better not even say it out loud - we don't want them to try and shut down the forums for mentioning their brand name here

[senseispcc]

Kursk should be the next battle or maybe the battle for Karkov in early 1943 that did conduct to Kursk and then all the big battle until the end of WW2 and the battle of Berlin.  South, north and even against japan there are many battle or campaigns ware the soviets planes could flight and then the western fronts without forgeting the desert air war. But for me never any jet war like Korea or Vietnam etc... Thus many years of games.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

i am more concerned about a possible debacle concering "trademarks" of US planes.... remember?

This is a red herring and has been addressed multiple times in these forums.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

Afrika theatre

 

We are missing this for a long time .

BOB

MED

BOS

BOM

but no Afrika .

 

I want another Pacific Theatre.

Edited November 17, 2015 by 71st_AH_CDN-SMOKEJUMPER

[Jaxum]

I would love to see something with more American aircraft and Brits vs Germans on the western front . Combat in the pacific would be pretty nice to

[Gump]

I would love to see something with more American aircraft and Brits vs Germans on the western front . Combat in the pacific would be pretty nice to

 

same here. western europe with many american planes included (p51,p47,p38,bombers)and brits (spitmk9,hurri,mossie) against germans (with various late planeset).

and southern europe/italy.

.

PTO ...may have interest... lots of allied plane options..not sure about japanese planes.

.

.

anyways, i would wonder what kind of market research would lead developers to produce an eastern front to begin with, if revenue and longevity were a concern? i heard the concern about profitability for other theaters, but wouldn't the other ones tend to attract more customers than the eastern front?

.... i would agree that an eastern front theater has been neglected, and it is nice to see it 'get into the game', but i think it has been neglected probably because of marketability concerns. BOS had a lot of pre-release advertising from 777/rof, whose customers hold high esteem for. would the IL2 cutomer base be higher presently if it was a more 'popul;ar' theater?

... whatever the case, 1c and 777 have a winner with the BOS sim. i believe that at least some of the success is due to having the best engine and graphics, though, irregardless of theater. personally, i'd MUCH rather fly a sim with the american planes, or even the brit spitfire, but i just cant leave BOS for WT or CLoD, or DCS.

.

i guess creating another theater requires boatloads of work, so it's not just a matter of whim - it takes much commitment that needs to be paid for. was there some money coming from the russian gov't for BOS development?

[MikeDitka]

I would like to have a WWII flight sim without the Luftwaffe.

 

So, if not PTO, perhaps China-Burma-India?

[Brano]

Theatre of Operations without LW? Frankly,that would bury 1CGS 6ft under.

[216th_Jordan]

Theatre of Operations without LW? Frankly,that would bury 1CGS 6ft under.

 

I have never understood that though.

[No601_Swallow]

I would like to have a WWII flight sim without the Luftwaffe.

 

 

But what would we have to complain about?

[LLv24_Zami]

But what would we have to complain about?

I think the US and British planes will cover that 

Edited November 18, 2015 by Zami

[Boomtap]

B-17. The Flying Fortress, with a large air crew with many responsibilities. Focus on the strategic front. Factories, ball bearing plants, oil refineries etc. etc. Emphasize the high altitude engagements and costs of strategic warfare and you got yourself a new game.

[Dutchvdm]

B-17. The Flying Fortress, with a large air crew with many responsibilities. Focus on the strategic front. Factories, ball bearing plants, oil refineries etc. etc. Emphasize the high altitude engagements and costs of strategic warfare and you got yourself a new game.

 

That would be nice, but i think the current Il2 setup can't handle that. First the map should be at least 2 or maybe even 4 times as big. Secondly i believe the engine can't handle large bomber formations. Only EAW could do that, and even they capped the number of bombers at 36 or so. Anything less then that would be silly i think.

 

Although i'm more off a LW pilot, i would buy a PTO game. But to honest i think it would be wise to flesh out the east first with one more release. Kuban would be perfect.

 

Grt Martijn

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It's less about the number of aircraft as the nine AI crew members per and their respective responsibilities/programming/scripts.

[Brano]

I have never understood that though.

Virtual LW pilots are very large slice of the whole customer cake.Cut them off and you can start packing your personal belongings from the office into the cartonbox. 

[216th_Lucas_From_Hell]

Strategic campaigns also have the downside of catering for only a select few - who has the time to fly 4+ hours in a slow bomber while managing all the systems and then be shot down over target by a direct 88mm hit? It becomes very niche to develop that as a major module, not to mention the map size required would be a nightmare - all the way from Cambridgeshire to at least deep inside France.

 

Strategic bombing is fun on paper but practically speaking it's really hard to do. The AI for it would be a nightmare too - even in Il-2 1946 adding a ton of bombers plus escorts plus interceptors plus flak could slow down a computer. Multiplayer would be a pain too because it would be a P-51 x Bf-109 duel at 8.000m with the odd straggler bomber cruising alone unescorted waiting to be zapped by a Fw-190. It doesn't work, at least in the immediate future.

 

This is one problem in some - not all - Pacific and Mediterranean theatre scenarios: transit times are too long from the bases to target.

 

A good scenario right now (personally) needs to bring a historically relevant battle, be interchangeable with other scenarios in terms of aircraft, and above all allow for a variety of air war that includes mostly tactical and secondly strategic roles. Stalingrad for example lets that happen - there are factories, depots and other strategic targets for those who want to (and because those were still targets), but the main theatre is the bloody tactical air war that went on. The Battle of Moscow aircraft can be used here too historically, and Stalingrad aircraft can be used in the Moscow map too because of the wide range of operations conducted there over the years.

 

And yes, Luftwaffe pilots are a great share of the pie whether you like it or not. Go to the Squadrons page for example - there is ONE squadron named in Soviet Air Force nomenclature (69 GIAP), a couple of other national originals from different countries and the overwhelming majority is a Geschwader party all the way. The Pacific for example would bring a lot of people to fly American aircraft for sure, but not nearly as many who want to get on a IJN/IJA lighter. You win on one end, but the LW pilots feel left out because they don't have the aircraft they've been flying since 1993 and the VVS pilots feel entirely left out because they can't relate there in one way or another either.

 

The Eastern Front with lend-lease aircraft can bridge that gap well. It is also possible to get these aircraft and add another map like Velikiy Luki that depicts a single West or Med scenario, but leaving it as a MP map - that way you avoid the colossal hassle of creating English radio chatter.