Developer Diary, Part 40

[Cybermat47]

 Sneak peak at the Christmas Gift! 

 

I don't see anything. Bad link?

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I really hope that that is not the case in the final release...

 

That was one of the many things that they got right in IL2.. You fly off the map and the worse that can happen is you get lost because there are no landmarks so you just look at your compass and head back the way you came or miss out on the action or run out of fuel in the wasteland but that plane repositioning thing is just lame lame lame and should not be in this sim.. and this of course is just my opinion. I am certain there are many who feel the need for it but it is really counter immersive and arcade.

 

Mind you .. I'm all in regardless..... but I hope that the team seriously reconsiders this in the final release if this is indeed the case in the beta. So what if people can go off the map and sneak around the back way.. That means that those flying cap will have to do their friggin jobs RIGHT.  Another solution to that problem for those who are worried about it is let the mission builder put time limits on the mission to prevent that .. or set fixed fuel levels ... or set a wall of flak at the back side .. all that can be solved.. Papy Toa had some missions he made for the  99th that you had no choice but to go in one way... and you had to figure it out because if you went any other way you died either going in or coming out... ANYTHING other than turning the plane around. The only thing worse than that (not much worse but worse)  would be if the plane flew off the map and came back on the other side. 

 

I think that sometimes in our quest to stop "cheats" we do more harm than good and this is for me one of those cases. You're flying around and suddenly the universe does a 180... Sorry ... that will SUCK. Someone will always find a way to game the game... It is better to just have a featureless continuing landscape beyond the map borders like IL2 does. If someone even wanted to take the time to use the config file to put a base way out there .. and challenge the pilots in that mission to actually navigate and find their way to the target that would be a great feature.. but flipping you 180 when you go off the map.. or killing your engine when you go off the map or any kind of silly gameboy arcade nonsense like it will not do this product justice... That kind of silliness sucked in WoP and it will suck even more in BoS.

 

I am well aware that if it is indeed implemented that the positives of BoS will out weigh an y negatives.. including that one... but .. why..? Why even put something as gamey as that in this the "sucessor" to IL2..   .. It just seems wrong .....

 

Great map though... so looking forward to this regardless.

Whoa whoa Chill out man.   (roles reversed for once eh.....)

 

When I played it on one of my three occasions, as we were messing with settings we excited the map and we were pulled from the cockpit view and we watched the plane head away, I want to say we could control it as well to turn in back around.  They may have changed it by now though.  But man do you see how big the map is at release?  I highly doubt were going to have any issues.  I mean hell the WT maps are like 35 x 35 and those dudes hardly EVER go off the map.  And there its rather easy.

[Cybermat47]

I really hope that that is not the case in the final release...

 

Rather than complaining (no offense, it's your right), I'll just stay in the combat zone

 

In all the months I've been playing Rise of Flight, I've only been turned around three times, and that was because Jasta 8 was stationed near the edge of the map.

[FlyingNutcase]

Same thinking as Bearcat here.

 

if there is any overriding behavior when going off the edge, I sure hope it's not reversing direction. Losing cockpit view and being able to turn the plane around from externals is kind of bearable. The reason I would much prefer the original IL2 style of a barren landscape is that I only use manual navigation and part of the challenge is keeping track of where you are. I'd rather find myself over a barren vista of snow and realise that something's up than have something unworldy happening like spinning around in a sudden 180. 

 

Sure it's going to be a big map but when your airfield or target is near the edge it'll always be an issue.

 

Anyway, what will be will be, but Devs please consider the original IL2 barren landscape solution.

 

S!

[Pupo]

regarding this 190º turn policy, how is it modelled in ROF? ( i never got to the dge of a map in rof )

[Skoshi_Tiger]

I really hope that that is not the case in the final release...

 

That was one of the many things that they got right in IL2.. You fly off the map and the worse that can happen is you get lost because there are no landmarks so you just look at your compass and head back the way you came or miss out on the action or run out of fuel in the wasteland but that plane repositioning thing is just lame lame lame and should not be in this sim.. and this of course is just my opinion. I am certain there are many who feel the need for it but it is really counter immersive and arcade.

 

....

I think that sometimes in our quest to stop "cheats" we do more harm than good and this is for me one of those cases. You're flying around and suddenly the universe does a 180... Sorry ... that will SUCK. Someone will always find a way to game the game... It is better to just have a featureless continuing landscape beyond the map borders like IL2 does. If someone even wanted to take the time to use the config file to put a base way out there .. and challenge the pilots in that mission to actually navigate and find their way to the target that would be a great feature.. but flipping you 180 when you go off the map.. or killing your engine when you go off the map or any kind of silly gameboy arcade nonsense like it will not do this product justice... That kind of silliness sucked in WoP and it will suck even more in BoS.

 

I am well aware that if it is indeed implemented that the positives of BoS will out weigh an y negatives.. including that one... but .. why..? Why even put something as gamey as that in this the "sucessor" to IL2..   .. It just seems wrong .....

 

Great map though... so looking forward to this regardless.

 

But can't you see the upside?

How about this?

 

I'm in my Lagg getting chased by a 109,were both flying flat out so he's slowly gaining on me! I  can't do anything else but run for the edge of the map. I hit the edge!  Bingo! I'm flipped around and am in a perfect firing solution, head on at 600+kph!

 

Nothing he can do about it!

 

 

+1 for the hope that it's early access only!

[Uufflakke]

They plan to do the being pushed back on the map also on the full size map.

In my opinion it is like flying in a virtual box.

 

It will lead to some odd situations.

 

Imagine you and your squad mates are chasing a group of bombers. Does it mean that as soon as they reach the edge all twenty bombers turn 180 degrees and fly straight into you?

 

Or what happens if you in your LaGG-3 chasing a Messie in a very steep, almost vertical dive and reaching the edge of the map? Does it mean the Messerschmitt goes almost straight upwards in a split second and facing you?

[I/JG27_Rollo]

I don't think the aircraft is turned around instantly but rather in some kind of a standard turn within the aircraft's flight characteristics.
Gotta test it in RoF when I get home...

 

Either way it's not really my favorite solution.

 

I wonder what the reasons are - is it a limitation of the map/engine?

Any other reason would be most worthy of discussion.

[JtD]

What I understood is that autopilot takes control and turns your plane around. No corners in that flight path, just turns.

 

I also hope they reconsider. I've been wondering already on several occasions why the title is Il-2:BoS and not RoF:BoS - which we seem to be getting with all the drawbacks.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

How does it work in ROF? ive never tried it.

[Revvin]

Maybe the system could disable weapons for a few seconds after the turn? Just in case players do try to abuse it? Either way I hope it's just a temporary thing for the testing period, I preferred the way IL-2 did it with just wilderness if you flew off the map

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

I do really hope the "turn around when leaving the map" is still to be arguably during the Pre-access phase. As for me this is not a very nice solution. I would rather suggest some sort of fading out of the pilots consciousness without any intervention to flight controls and similar actions. This could probably take 1-2 minutes until the screen fades grey / black and the ability to control the plane slightly vanishes.

 

Edit: The effect of gradually losing consciousness in fact should be valid the other way round as well: 1-2 minutes with reduced controllability when entering the map again. This would then prevent using this area as some sort of advantage.

 

But anway, in IL-.2 I have never seen this as a large disadvantage in gameplay. It sometimes even allowed for alternative map and mission designs. The world around us, still makes 360 °, no matter at which map position you are. Expect the enemy from any direction independent of the ground construction / details  below. The maps are anyway so large, that the main area for battle should be at least a few kms inside.

 

I therefore ask to implement such "map border" function to be an option which can be switched on or off in server options.

Edited November 13, 2013 by I/JG27_Zimmi

[Rodolphe]

...

 

Well, In a QMB mission of Rise of Flight, If you leave the map, after 50" entering the Barber's pole area, you are kicked out your plane and the mission.

 

Does Rise of Flight suck for that reason ? Bearcat !

 

KEEP CALM

and ...

        

KEEP CALM

 

 

 

 

 

I really hope that that is not the case in the final release...

 

That was one of the many things that they got right in IL2.. You fly off the map and the worse that can happen is you get lost because there are no landmarks so you just look at your compass and head back the way you came or miss out on the action or run out of fuel in the wasteland but that plane repositioning thing is just lame lame lame and should not be in this sim.. and this of course is just my opinion. I am certain there are many who feel the need for it but it is really counter immersive and arcade.

 

Mind you .. I'm all in regardless..... but I hope that the team seriously reconsiders this in the final release if this is indeed the case in the beta. So what if people can go off the map and sneak around the back way.. That means that those flying cap will have to do their friggin jobs RIGHT.  Another solution to that problem for those who are worried about it is let the mission builder put time limits on the mission to prevent that .. or set fixed fuel levels ... or set a wall of flak at the back side .. all that can be solved.. Papy Toa had some missions he made for the  99th that you had no choice but to go in one way... and you had to figure it out because if you went any other way you died either going in or coming out... ANYTHING other than turning the plane around. The only thing worse than that (not much worse but worse)  would be if the plane flew off the map and came back on the other side. 

 

I think that sometimes in our quest to stop "cheats" we do more harm than good and this is for me one of those cases. You're flying around and suddenly the universe does a 180... Sorry ... that will SUCK. Someone will always find a way to game the game... It is better to just have a featureless continuing landscape beyond the map borders like IL2 does. If someone even wanted to take the time to use the config file to put a base way out there .. and challenge the pilots in that mission to actually navigate and find their way to the target that would be a great feature.. but flipping you 180 when you go off the map.. or killing your engine when you go off the map or any kind of silly gameboy arcade nonsense like it will not do this product justice... That kind of silliness sucked in WoP and it will suck even more in BoS.

 

I am well aware that if it is indeed implemented that the positives of BoS will out weigh an y negatives.. including that one... but .. why..? Why even put something as gamey as that in this the "sucessor" to IL2..   .. It just seems wrong .....

 

Great map though... so looking forward to this regardless.

 

 

...

Edited November 13, 2013 by Rodolphe

[FlyingNutcase]

...

 

Well, In a QMB mission of Rise of Flight, If you leave the map, after 50" entering the Barber's pole area, you are kicked out your plane and the mission.

 

Does Rise of Flight suck for that reason ? Bearcat !

 

 

 

Steady on. Where did Bearcat suggest that RoF sucks or BOS would suck because of that "feature". He's simply saying that that particular "feature" would suck as a gaming experience. Which it would.

[Rodolphe]

...

 

Steady on. Where did Bearcat suggest that RoF sucks or BOS would suck because of that "feature". He's simply saying that that particular "feature" would suck as a gaming experience. Which it would.

 

 

Agreed ! I was just kidding !   But with all those Drama's going on,  it seems impossible to keep a relax mood on this forum !

 

 

 

...

Edited November 13, 2013 by Rodolphe

[messer79]

I'd rather my plane didn't turn itself when close to the map egde. It could enter a wasteland  (snow, random trees and nothing more). If you do not realize you are lost you will run out of fuel and crash (or land). Or you can use your compass and turn back to go back to a mission or just save your life.

 

I also hope the trees will be an obstacle and I won't be able to fly through them without any damage.

Edited November 13, 2013 by messer79

[FlyingNutcase]

@Devs: If "auto-returning" from a map edge is a "feature" and not due to a map engine or other limitation, could you please put up a poll so you can see what the thinking is on this one?

 

You've been great at listening and responding to your community, even as far as apparently changing the purchase model because old IL2ers generally wouldn't have liked the RoF buy-a-plane model. Please consider our input on this one too. It may seem like a minor thing, but as Bearcat noted, for many of us it doesn't fit the IL2 world.

 

Thx.

[messer79]

Perhaps the devs would be so kind as to rewrite the game engine and rebuild the map to suit. Goodness knows how graciously the community will prepared to wait...

Nobody says it must be done right now. We are talking about our wishes for Il2 to be perfect. Nothing happens if the fixes we ask for on this forum are implemented later... But it is crucial to be certain they will be implemented.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Stop thinking of it as il2, and start thinking of it as RoF 2. It gets easier after that...

[FTC_Karaya]

I dont really have a problem with this, cant remember the last time I was even near a map edge in IL-2, RoF or Cliffs.

 

Also the positive side is that people cannot exploit (yes, exploit) the fact that they can go off-map and thus circumvent their opponents. This specifically happened quite a bit in the old online wars.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 Either way people will abuse or find exploits in any system given. That happened in original IL-2 as well in any other game, seen it so darned often. For some it is about "gotta win" and low morals, because they feel it is OK to use a flaw or exploit for their own advantage. Mechwarrior Online has a system that would work perfectly and no-one could complain. There is a BIG message on screen "Out of Bounds" and a timer below it. IF you do not return to the map within that time you go BOOM and die. Simple and effective. Can't say you did not know if a flashing timer is telling you to get back. Sure some use it to suicide if their team is losing, but again it adds a death to their stats anyway. No more players flying way off map to avoid fighters or whatever. Give players a chance to go off map and it will be exploited. A timer and a message out of bounds is simple and effective. Do not obey? Go Boom. Your choice.

[Foobar]

They plan to do the being pushed back on the map also on the full size map.

In my opinion it is like flying in a virtual box.

 

It will lead to some odd situations.

 

Imagine you and your squad mates are chasing a group of bombers. Does it mean that as soon as they reach the edge all twenty bombers turn 180 degrees and fly straight into you?

 

Or what happens if you in your LaGG-3 chasing a Messie in a very steep, almost vertical dive and reaching the edge of the map? Does it mean the Messerschmitt goes almost straight upwards in a split second and facing you?

 

Brilliant thoughts.

[BFsSmurfy]

• Community manager
• 
• Posts: 229

Posted Today, 08:56

A-E-Hartmann, on 12 Nov 2013 - 18:13, said:

Small question:
Will we have the chance to games it a boxed official release.
Or just a download.

We've no final decision on whether or not there will be a physical boxed version.

 

DB605, on 12 Nov 2013 - 18:23, said:

How long we will be restricted to Lagg only in early access?

I/JG27_Rollo, on 13 Nov 2013 - 08:15, said:

Can you please provide us with some kind of roadmap of what is planned for the upcoming early access sessions in terms of which aircraft/features we'll get?

So far it is probably:

- Week 1: LaGG

- Week 2: 109 F4 (I guess/hope)

- Week 1: LaGG

- Week 2: Bf 109 F-4

- AI will be added to the early access sessions 2-3 weeks after the start.

- By December you’ll get ammo and we’ll start trying out various sorts of un-lockable mods.

- The general Stalingrad map will be finished by January.

- The Mission Editor will become available in the Spring.

 

We've a tentative roadmap and it's all we can say you now.

 

 

 

In case you missed it.

[Bearcat]

Whoa whoa Chill out man.   (roles reversed for once eh..... )

 

When I played it on one of my three occasions, as we were messing with settings we excited the map and we were pulled from the cockpit view and we watched the plane head away, I want to say we could control it as well to turn in back around.  They may have changed it by now though.  But man do you see how big the map is at release?  I highly doubt were going to have any issues.  I mean hell the WT maps are like 35 x 35 and those dudes hardly EVER go off the map.  And there its rather easy.

 

I'm cool... just stating an opinion...

 

Rather than complaining (no offense, it's your right), I'll just stay in the combat zone

 

In all the months I've been playing Rise of Flight, I've only been turned around three times, and that was because Jasta 8 was stationed near the edge of the map.

 

Not complaining.. just stating an opinion ....

 

...

 

Well, In a QMB mission of Rise of Flight, If you leave the map, after 50" entering the Barber's pole area, you are kicked out your plane and the mission.

 

Does Rise of Flight suck for that reason ? Bearcat ! ...

Steady on. Where did Bearcat suggest that RoF sucks or BOS would suck because of that "feature". He's simply saying that that particular "feature" would suck as a gaming experience. Which it would.

 

 

@Devs: If "auto-returning" from a map edge is a "feature" and not due to a map engine or other limitation, could you please put up a poll so you can see what the thinking is on this one?

 

You've been great at listening and responding to your community, even as far as apparently changing the purchase model because old IL2ers generally wouldn't have liked the RoF buy-a-plane model. Please consider our input on this one too. It may seem like a minor thing, but as Bearcat noted, for many of us it doesn't fit the IL2 world.

 

Thx.

 

... the reason for stating my opinion..

 

I really hope that that is not the case in the final release...

 

Mind you .. I'm all in regardless.....

I think that sometimes in our quest to stop "cheats" we do more harm than good and this is for me one of those cases. You're flying around and suddenly the universe does a 180... Sorry ... that will SUCK. Someone will always find a way to game the game... It is better to just have a featureless continuing landscape beyond the map borders like IL2 does. If someone even wanted to take the time to use the config file to put a base way out there .. and challenge the pilots in that mission to actually navigate and find their way to the target that would be a great feature.. but flipping you 180 when you go off the map.. or killing your engine when you go off the map or any kind of silly gameboy arcade nonsense like it will not do this product justice... That kind of silliness sucked in WoP and it will suck even more in BoS.

 

I am well aware that if it is indeed implemented that the positives of BoS will out weigh any negatives.. including that one... but .. why..? Why even put something as gamey as that in this the "sucessor" to IL2..   .. It just seems wrong .....

Great map though... so looking forward to this regardless.

 

[DD_Arthur]

I honestly don't think this will be a problem.  This is not IL2 1946.  The map is going to be huge.

[Jaws2002]

This is eastern front. The front line moved east and then west right through this map. If you want to make an earlier or later historical scenario, you may have to put bases closer to the edge of the map. There will be many cases of planes getting off the map.

Turning them around automatically is the most cheesy decision from all the options available. BF1942 with wings.

 

 

In ROF the front line was mostly static. No blitz krieg, and no 500+km/h aircraft.    HUGE DIFFERENCE !

[Uufflakke]

The 180 degrees turn when reaching the edge of the map reminds me all of sudden of good old... Pong!  

 

[Rodolphe]

...

 

 

Zak

 

The plane will be automatically turned for 180˚. I'll check it in case if I'm wrong here.

 

 

Nothing is confirmed Yet.

 

I've done one more test and get some more observations.  

 

In Rise of Flight, you'll receive a visual warning when your airplane enters the Barber's pole area around the map.

ATTENTION! You are leaving the action area, Proceed to the (ex: EAST) immediately. Your stay in this area doesn't seem to be time limited.

 

You will be kicked out your cockpit and the mission will be terminated if you reach the black map frame (outer limit).

 

...

Edited November 13, 2013 by Rodolphe

[=38=Tatarenko]

You guys realise this is just the Alpha and that the final map will be MASSIVE right?

 

Get a grip.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

You guys realise this is just the Alpha and that the final map will be MASSIVE right?

 

Get a grip.

Thats what im trying to tell the "sky is falling crowd" but all they can imagine is flying around in a little box being interupted in their Epic dog fight.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

It seems almost like BoS itself is only a minor aspect here.  Mostly we seem to come to argue.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

It seems almost like BoS itself is only a minor aspect here.  Mostly we seem to come to argue.

Again kind of a win for BoS and the Devs. I mean hell if these are the only things we do. Than i guess the game is doin swell.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Anyway. As someone already tested out the barrier and warning zone. I guess the only real thing to do would be to make it a bigger area to account for the much higher speeds of WWII aircraft. I mean were barely subsonic in some of these dives. I would hope i have enough time to evade the "black line". But that whole solution seems just as realistic as droning into a featureless abyss. I think its actually doing you a favor and saving you some time and frustration. That is IF you ever need to be there to begin with. I cant say i have ever gone off the map on purpose.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Rama
removed provocative comments

[SYN_Jedders]

I wonder how many .GB the map would be if if it modelled the whole globe?.....

Edited November 13, 2013 by SYN_Jedders

[DD_bongodriver]

What GB was FSX's map?

[JtD]

It's total bollocks in a simulation to have your plane turned around because you've reached the end of the map. There's no end of the world in real life. It might be acceptable in a game, but I like the simulation part. 12 year old Il-2 has found a better solution than the proposed one for this brand new title. I don't know why I, or people thinking like me about the issue, shouldn't mention it and/or support the notion made. Why would the developers change it if the subject was just a minor note in the discussion?

[SYN_Jedders]

Dunno, Bongo, but someone mentioned some map in DCS as being 22.GB already. Dont think its as big an area as this either :/

[Rama]

I wonder how many .GB the map would be if if it modelled the whole globe?.....

I made a rought computing. height map only (resolution 25m x 25m x 16b) would be around 1.5 TB for the globe.

For the whole files you have to multiply at least by 2.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

It's total bollocks in a simulation to have your plane turned around because you've reached the end of the map. There's no end of the world in real life. It might be acceptable in a game, but I like the simulation part. 12 year old Il-2 has found a better solution than the proposed one for this brand new title. I don't know why I, or people thinking like me about the issue, shouldn't mention it and/or support the notion made. Why would the developers change it if the subject was just a minor note in the discussion?

If there could be some sort of land formations past the edge. I could see it being left in. But if its an engine limitation. Or even a design decision. But they are giving you a map that you come damn near to running out of gas traversing why is it such a big deal?

[Sim]

And this is assuming the whole globe is covered in snow and with Russian architecture?