Developer Diary, Part 40

[FuriousMeow]

Furious, one of the selling points for premium pre-order was early access, there is simply no arguing against that point.

 

But you didn't pay for it. They invited us to early access by purchasing early, but there were no additional costs for it.

 

What about Standard, did they pay $50 for winter access? I'd venture they paid for the game, the access was a bonus in addition to the lower cost and all of the so-called "trinkets."

Edited November 11, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Stlkrash]

Yes Meow, but, go out side and take a board with you right. Then lay it on the ground. Now push it a meter. Does the whole board move, or just the first section?  My original question, before this got all side tracked and poo slinging, was did the standard version push back also. As we demonstrated with the experiment up there.

 

So in other words, if someone was going to buy more copies for something, is it worth it , or does one put it off for a while. See, there are many people who bought for various reasons, mine was Early Access.. I don't care about the little forum badge or gun pods that get unlocked for all, so I read, in time anyway. And, isn't there some chatter about those "Extra Planes" being unlocked also in time?

 

See not clear info on many things, and in the studio's defense they may not have even gotten that far yet in some cases. But to try to "Tell someone what they paid for" is nonsense. Sorry. You paid for what you wanted, and I hope you got it all bud, but I paid for my reasons as did Hagar.

[HagarTheHorrible]

This is just getting silly.

[thx1138]

See not clear info on many things, and in the studio's defense they may not have even gotten that far yet in some cases. But to try to "Tell someone what they paid for" is nonsense. Sorry. You paid for what you wanted, and I hope you got it all bud, but I paid for my reasons as did Hagar.

 

And your still going to get early access. Whats the problem ?

 

Too many people read into the early access part with their own expectations in mind, forgetting that we are getting just what the dev's said we would get. Early access to an incompolete sim/game. No one ever said it would be complete access 24/7 with MP and ME, QMB.

[Stlkrash]

Well, thx for third party addins actually. Clear your question up ?

 

A thread third party devs can use to get info on sim structure would be keen.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Stlkrash

[ATAG_Slipstream]

This is just getting silly.

QFT

Edited November 11, 2013 by Uther

[DD_bongodriver]

But you didn't pay for it. They invited us to early access by purchasing early, but there were no additional costs for it.

 

What about Standard, did they pay $50 for winter access? I'd venture they paid for the game, the access was a bonus in addition to the lower cost and all of the so-called "trinkets."

 

 

I parted with money earlier than I needed to in order to get early access to the alpha, if I waited for retail premium for the finished game with all the other perks I only pay $10 more, it's not about how much but when, as of tomorrow the only perk that is not available any more is a founders tag......is that what we really paid for?

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I parted with money earlier than I needed to in order to get early access to the alpha, if I waited for retail premium for the finished game with all the other perks I only pay $10 more, it's not about how much but when, as of tomorrow the only perk that is not available any more is a founders tag......is that what we really paid for?

Pretty sure you wont get the instant unlocks, as well. What i am trying to understand is that you guys are acting like it got pushed back until 2014. Or was taken from you all together. Trust me there is plenty of alpha to go around.

 

Even more hilarious is how this thread will be buried in 8 days. Because it just wont matter. Kind of like it doesn't matter right now. You just cant see it yet.

[DD_bongodriver]

I can see it, none of it actually bothers me, I understand everything that is happening and am cool with it, but I just don't like how some people like to tell other people what they based their purchase on, you even have it in your own sig, early access is what is stirring up the passions here, some people bought it on that basis alone, it's almost irrelevant that 2 historically incorrect aircraft are unlocked.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

please.. PLEASE:. all this about your everlasting argument about what you paid and what you expect... you are having a conversation.. take it in private!

[Bearcat]

Don't quite follow what you are trying to say there  You say it's not then you finish by saying it is.

 

Premium purchasers paid for privileged access, before everyone else, including those who purchased the Standard edition, did they not ?  It seems quite clear, to me, in the purchase description, Premium have access in the Autumn of 2013 while Standard subscribers get access in the Winter, or am I wrong in thinking that, because that is what it says, in black and white on the purchases page.  Correct me if I am wrong but the only reason to delay access to Standard edition holders over that of Premium is getting more cash in, not because of some technical reason.  It was a privilege offered to Premium purchasers in exchange for more money, pure and simple.  I can't think why you are under the impression that Premium purchasers only paid for a few extra planes and trinkets ?

 

The "misrepresentation" comes in when the notion that that was all that the extra cost covered. That is not the case. The extra cost covered the earlier access and the extra aircraft.  It was also a choice.

 

It state quite clearly on the purchases page that Premium get access from the Autumn and Standard from the Winter, if I remember correctly that has always been the case.  If that weren't true and the extra $40 didn't pay, in part, for earlier access over that of Standard why does it differentiate between the two on the purchases page, why not just open up access to both groups at the same time ?

 

All things considered I would not be surprised if the access for Standard purchasers was also delayed. Not for the purpose of "getting more cash in"  but because in case no one has noticed,  this team does indeed have a plan. That plan is not centered around trying to fleece anyone or milk us for all they can get as some seem to continue to insinuate. It is centered around trying to produce the best product they can deliver. I suspect, and I have no official input to confirm this but I suspect that the terms of early access like most things in this project at this stage are done for their benefit which will only make the final goal of their plan more attainable. I am not talking about monetary gain because while I think that they will take all the cash they can get at this stage, monetarily their goal is the bigger picture and the bigger payday comes from not milking the die hards for all we are worth but from handling their business and sticking to their plan and producing the absolute best product they can which should pay for itself. In light of that fact... I believe that the terms of access were  set based on having a certain amount of time to take the sim from one stage to another and I do not think that the standard users will have access until such time as the Premium users have gotten them to that stage with the testing that we do. Now if that happens on time with no unforseen hiccups along the way great... but it may not, and if it does not then there is no reason for anyone to continue to get their shorts in a knot.

 

 

I paid for the premium because I wanted the extra planes 'and' the early access that was clearly promised.....oh and the discount.

 

Me too.. plus I wanted to support the product because there are two things I was absolutely certain of from day one:

 

1-Given what we have in RoF and considering the team making the neccessary adjustments for WWII even of nothing else changed , this was going to be something that I could enjoy.

2-Given the above facts and my fondness for WWII sims .. this was going to be on my HD anyway from day one.. So DUHHH why not get it early if I can. If there were no extra planes and it was earlier access alone I would not have bought Premium.. I would have bought standard.. but I would have bought something regardless.

 

I sincerely hope that standard early access is not delayed.

 

However, the reason why premium early access got set back was a delay in development. The early access is tied to certain content being in the game and for premium that stage was not reached until next week.

So unless the devs can catch up in development, further content and thus the standard early access, which is probably tied to it, might get delayed just as much... hopefully not, though.

 

 

1. What has been reversed? The gun pod gift? No! Founders are still getting the gun pods unlocked and ready to go. What has been reversed is the ability to glance down and laugh at non-founders and say "Ha Ha, I got 20mm gun pods and you don't." If that's what some people wanted then not much was lost that day.

 

2. What minority? Just as in any election, only those who actually vote, can be counted. People who weren't able or didn't care to vote are left out of the equation. And of those who voted, the majority was against the exclusivity. Time to accept that...

 

*flog*

Sorry horse.

 

Pretty much..

[CPS_Marinoni]

I paid $89.00 on November 10th, I assume that because my money was accepted, "Founder" status was still available..

[Stlkrash]

"1-Given what we have in RoF and considering the team making the neccessary adjustments for WWII even of nothing else changed , this was going to be something that I could enjoy."

 

Totally agree there bearcat, I said that to the RoF devs in the alpha for that.

 

"If you ever make this ww2 you got it licked"  something along those lines.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Hey! I for one Am very, Very, very, Glad for this... IT beats F'en BF4 lag fest hack-fest any day!  man its so bad over there that I just play the campaign over and over, next I will play on very hard.

[FuriousMeow]

I parted with money earlier than I needed to in order to get early access to the alpha, if I waited for retail premium for the finished game with all the other perks I only pay $10 more, it's not about how much but when, as of tomorrow the only perk that is not available any more is a founders tag......is that what we really paid for?

 

Actually, you don't get any of the pre-order perks such as unlocked aircraft, unlocked gun pods, unlocked rear gunner, founders skins, and you also won't have access any time until the release - so when the game is far more complete and actually fun to play - you'd still be sitting there sans game waiting to pay $10 more than you would have minus all of the stuff we get already unlocked.

 

So, no, those perks aren't available. They can eventually be unlocked, but pre-order gets them right out of the gate.

Edited November 11, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[BFsSmurfy]

I paid $89.00 on November 10th, I assume that because my money was accepted, "Founder" status was still available..

You need to activate your key mate, you bought before 10/11 so you should be good to go.

[=LD=dhyran]

well,

 

you guys are funny! All this fanboi yelling, oh my, too be honest, there is a lot stuff i am missing! where are the fxxxxxx cons going down in flames? Ahh yes, we are still in early alpha, shame on me, thought it is 2014 allready ...

[Feathered_IV]

Eh?

[DD_bongodriver]

Yeah.....I don't know either, I think he just hates everyone....fair enough.

[Trident_109]

I read the pre-release is delayed and I got blue balls. Now, after reading this forum I've got a head ache. Oi!

[JtD]

I recommend the ignore function. It does help with making the forum more fun to read. Really.

[Rjel]

I recommend the ignore function. It does help with making the forum more fun to read. Really.

And a much quicker read also. Some days I can eliminate nearly a quarter of the posts in a thread like this....

 

Considering recent world events, a mere delay in the early access adds up to absolutely nothing in my book. Hopefully everyone here will still be around in a week. I just can't get upset about trivial things like this anymore.

[Rakow]

Thanks Sternjaeger for the video. great stuf.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I can see it, none of it actually bothers me, I understand everything that is happening and am cool with it, but I just don't like how some people like to tell other people what they based their purchase on, you even have it in your own sig, early access is what is stirring up the passions here, some people bought it on that basis alone, it's almost irrelevant that 2 historically incorrect aircraft are unlocked.

Lol my sig is just satire based on the pandamonium of this place. I mean what ever reason u purchased this for. You are.getting what you asked for. Early access, check. Unlocks,check. Aircraft, check. Not sure what the fuss is about. Rather i spent today reading about the serviceman that came before me doing things that really mattered. Then i went out and celebrated that great legacy set before me. And you are complaining about a game. And 90 bucks. I just dropped 120 bucks on drinks for servicemen and women. Every penny worth it. Can i afford that? Nope. I gotta adjust my monthly budget. But i dont regret a single cent.

 

Im not worried about a game that by the way has shown me no reason to doubt them.

[Dutch]

I just realised that I've spent $425 on Star Citizen, and all I can do is run around a hangar. But, at least I can run around a hangar and say 'Oooooh, look at that!!'

 

I dunno. Flight simmers or gamers, we're a pretty nutty bunch. So, 'Stalingrad'. It's a shame that the only 'plane to fly in the Alpha is the LaGG 3, it should've been the IL2. Does that give us an indication of the overall mood of the sim? You know, dogfighting? I was looking forward to pounding lines of tanks with big loads of ordnance.

 

[MACADEMIC]

Shame this, shame that. Getting tired of reading this too often in such trivial contexts. Why is it that after the initial excitement about a great new update the topic quality goes downhill that much and the discussion becomes so tiresome? Going to follow some posters' recommendation and start deploying the ignore function now.

 

Mods - can't help but feeling if you're not watching out this forum's just going to go bananas.

 

 

MAC

[Heywooood]

too late - the WTF-O-meter is already pegged

[Marrond]

Mods - can't help but feeling if you're not watching out this forum's just going to go bananas.

Mods are here to keep discussion civilized not to create a mutual appreciation society circle for some of the users here. You may not agree with someone's statement but all you can do about this is to press ignore button or don't visit. If someone discuss some matter repeatedly that means it is important for him. Simple as that.

 

It's a shame that the only 'plane to fly in the Alpha is the LaGG 3, it should've been the IL2. Does that give us an indication of the overall mood of the sim? You know, dogfighting?

That wouldn't be suprising at all considering that dogfighting servers were allways most popular ones. People in general are playing multiplayer games to have fun competing against other players. Killing AI doesn't require multiplayer component tied to it (aside from coop functionality that is) Edited November 12, 2013 by Marrond

[Dutch]

Shame this, shame that. Getting tired of reading this too often in such trivial contexts.

 

Oh, sorry old chum. I wasn't aware that my first post in this thread was required to be both serious and profound. I mean, I thought this forum was created around the promise of a computer game rather than say, an analysis of  the complete works of Tolstoy, or string theory, or radical political thought in the fourteenth century, or whatever.

[LukeFF]

This is just getting silly.

 

No kidding. It never ceases to amaze me how so much can be written about a simple development update. 

[FlatSpinMan]

Yup.

[TheBlackPenguin]

No kidding. It never ceases to amaze me how so much can be written about a simple development update. 

 

Oh dear, couldn't resist, "Never in the field of forums was so much written about so little by so few".

 

Hopefully my great-uncles ghost won't visit me tonight and punch me in the face.

[Foobar]

Ask not what you will get for your money, but what together our money can do for the developers!

 

[ST_ami7b5]

So it ends as usual.

In fact I was really surprised the discussion was keeping civil whole first four pages...

[TheBlackPenguin]

Ask not what you will get for your money, but what together our money can do for the developers!

 

 

[Marrond]

So it ends as usual.

In fact I was really surprised the discussion was keeping civil whole first four pages...

It surprises me how somebody could consider "uncivilized" = "different point of view"

Not that I didn't expect it but it still amazes me every time I see it. Just as he said:

 

I just don't like how some people like to tell other people what they based their purchase on

Or in this case what is civilized or uncivilized based on subjective prefference of the topic.

 

It really sounds like some people are visiting official forums of their product of choice just to "praise the sun". It's not like anyone makes you guys to read these, seriously. What's the point of visiting discussion place (i.e. forum) when you're not interested in discussion in the first place? Forums exists so people can discuss and exchange their positive as well as negative points of views while vast amount of people lives in conviction that there should be only positives. Besides there are no other things to discuss at the moment since Early Access is main topic since 38th devdiary and will remain whether you like it or not atleast until 19th/20th where people will have (hopefully) new things to talk about.

 

As soon as everyone will get out of their bubble to understand each other's point of view you will get, what you're calling "civilized" conversations since major reason why it's still going on are people who are neglecting the value of problem that someone other has based on his own prefference and beliefs. If someone is blindly going into forum and in this case saying to other user that his problem doesn't exist and he has to grown up then he isn't helping to keep healthy discussion - he's infact part of the problem. This topic could be finished as soon as it started but some people simply start turning it into something that resembles religious conflict instead of, you know, discussion.

 

What people need to learn is objectivity. If problem doesn't matter for someone it doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Marrond

[ATAG_Slipstream]

So it ends as usual.

In fact I was really surprised the discussion was keeping civil whole first four pages...

Its best just to read the first page. Actually, its better just to read the first post...

[FlyingNutcase]

...

What's the point of visiting discussion place (i.e. forum) when you're not interested in discussion in the first place? Forums exists so people can discuss and exchange their positive as well as negative points of views while vast amount of people lives in conviction that there should be only positives. Besides there are no other things to discuss at the moment since Early Access is main topic since 38th devdiary and will remain whether you like it or not atleast until 19th/20th where people will have (hopefully) new things to talk about.

As soon as everyone will get out of their bubble to understand each other's point of view you will get, what you're calling "civilized" conversations since major reason why it's still going on are people who are neglecting the value of problem that someone other has based on his own prefference and beliefs. If someone is blindly going into forum and in this case saying to other user that his problem doesn't exist and he has to grown up then he isn't helping to keep healthy discussion - he's infact part of the problem. This topic could be finished as soon as it started but some people simply start turning it into something that resembles religious conflict instead of, you know, discussion.

 

What people need to learn is objectivity. If problem doesn't matter for someone it doesn't mean it doesn't exist at all.

 

The issue isn't the problem at hand anymore. The issue is the repetitive repetitiveness of the same repeating arguments by pretty much the same people over and over and over again.

 

We all get that things could have been communicated better; we understand the different points of view. But some people need to put it to bed or get a refund and wait until full release or take it to private messaging or whatever but I suspect that most people here have heard enough of the same arguments and the fact that the previous developer diary's thread has wound its way into this one is giving some people itchy fingers - towards the ignore button. I've never put anyone on an ignore list but I've now gone as far as to find out how.    Thanks JtD for the suggestion. :-)

[Mac_Messer]

We all get that things could have been communicated better; we understand the different points of view. But some people need to put it to bed or get a refund and wait until full release or take it to private messaging or whatever

You know, I think it might have been different if Loft&Co acknowledged the issue and admitted it was a mistake on their part. When you tell someone your problem but they shut their ears singing "lalalalalala" then you can`t be sure the very same thing doesn`t happen in the future.

 

Honestly, a big PR mistake on their part.

[DD_bongodriver]

Lol my sig is just satire based on the pandamonium of this place. I mean what ever reason u purchased this for. You are.getting what you asked for. Early access, check. Unlocks,check. Aircraft, check. Not sure what the fuss is about. Rather i spent today reading about the serviceman that came before me doing things that really mattered. Then i went out and celebrated that great legacy set before me. And you are complaining about a game. And 90 bucks. I just dropped 120 bucks on drinks for servicemen and women. Every penny worth it. Can i afford that? Nope. I gotta adjust my monthly budget. But i dont regret a single cent.

 

Im not worried about a game that by the way has shown me no reason to doubt them.

If you read carefully you will notice I have no complaints about the game or the devs current plans, but I do have a problem with the endless stream of self appointed forum police who simply won't allow an alternative point of view, unless it is constant, repetitive and mindless gushing.......funny how nobody gets annoyed by that repetition that adds zero to a conversation.