Developer Diary, Part 40

[ST_ami7b5]

[DD_bongodriver]

 

We here at BOS have it really, really good. Take time and bounce out to the competition. We'll have a working game next year with several planes, a period map, lots of stuff to blow up and shoot down

 

While they  have a map of georgia with just a P-51 and a AI Dora to fly against. Or P-51 vs modern copters or A-10's / jets. 

 

Sorry but this is one of the worst parts of all the attitudes that float around here, why does this always end up coming down to slinging crap at 'competition'?  more than enough of us are perfectly happy to have more than 1 sim in the works, plenty of dishing it out but nobody can take any.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Everyone should just relax and be happy. The future looks pretty good in the virtual world.

[ST_ami7b5]

^^ this!

[Cybermat47]

Sorry but this is one of the worst parts of all the attitudes that float around here, why does this always end up coming down to slinging crap at 'competition'?  more than enough of us are perfectly happy to have more than 1 sim in the works, plenty of dishing it out but nobody can take any.

+1

[Revvin]

2. What minority? Just as in any election, only those who actually vote, can be counted. People who weren't able or didn't care to vote are left out of the equation. And of those who voted, the majority was against the exclusivity. Time to accept that...

 

In an election you'd have to be living under a rock to miss the news that an election vote was being taken, this is a game forum, one that people may not check all that often. Looking at the numbers of founders when the vote started compared to the numbers who voted gives you a figure of just 20% - that's a minority. When I brought this up during the vote some people answered that this was a good indication of how the result would be if everyone voted yet the vote swung in favour of keeping the gunpods exclusive by 10% in the last few days of the poll. One reason for bringing this up is that some of the most vocal people complaining about it and perhaps making people feel badly simply for accepting a gift were people who had not pre-ordered and didn't seem to have any real intention of buying the sim.

Sorry but this is one of the worst parts of all the attitudes that float around here, why does this always end up coming down to slinging crap at 'competition'? more than enough of us are perfectly happy to have more than 1 sim in the works, plenty of dishing it out but nobody can take any.

Agreed, more choice is good for us all. I still jump in and out of WT when the mood takes me, I also play RoF and DCS and look forward to IL-2:BoS, it's been a long time since we've had this much sim development in such a short space of time. Edited November 11, 2013 by Revvin

[BMA_West]

Actually, the "Standard" is slated for "Before Xmas" "Not After" Direct quote I have.

 

Now, It seems according to "Some" to use "Some" people's words, the only opinions allowed are "Theirs". 

 

Stuff that.. My original post said "I told you so" as I predicted weeks ago..

 

 

It's really kind of simple. It's not ready. We knew it wouldn't be ready, but nobody wants to admit it.  The bets are going now, if the 19th is real or not.  Vegas has a line on it.

 

As far as the rest, Yep some bought early for dev reasons for 3rd party things like me and need the step up on the sim itself.

 

Some bought to buy... What ever it is.. But, like anything else, that "Push back", should be for all. You standard purchasers can wait longer like the rest.

Me, Me, ME,.... Us, Us, US, .... Theirs.

And yet there you go also LOL

Quite a community we make, with a caste uper and under :O)

Edited November 11, 2013 by West

[FlatSpinMan]

It's the misinformation and intentional misrepresentation by a select few that is getting old and why it must be constantly re-iterated that what the pre-order is a) less money than the release version and b) the Premium and Standard disparity in cost and features is still present with the release model.

 

You did NOT pay $40 more for earlier access than Standard, you pre-ordered for earlier access. The $40 difference between Standard and Premium is still very much present with the release version costs - so $40 can't be the payment for pre-order. Get it? You paid for the 190 and La5 with the $40 disparity between Standard and Premium. The earlier access over Standard was a gift.

So, in essence we DID pay for earlier access than the standard preorder, then? I mean, if its a gift included in the $40 extra we paid then, that sounds like it was one of the benefits of buying the Premium preorder - not the only one, but certainly one of. I was always interested anyway, but getting earliest access definitely held some appeal.

Your interpretation sounds to me like buying a $40 shopping bag and receipt and getting a product thrown in for free.

Anyway, we both agree that the Premium preorder is a good deal as it gives you extra planes and is cheaper than the Premium release version.

 

As for those unhappy about not having access already, well, I'm sure we all would have lovd to have a look last week, but,as others have said, it's still autumn so the devs are on track. Okay, they're a bit later than hoped, but hell, what difference does a couple of weeks make in the long run?

[BMA_West]

One of the selling points to me was the earlier access, the limitations of the early access were poorly communicated and the gift of gun pods has been reversed based on a minority vote.

^^

Look at lots of dev decisions in ROF's development, they followed the view of a hard core inner community, from alpha state on.

The polls in there never reflected on the real numbers of the game owners/participants.

Look where that got it in particular MP, ... sad, sadder, saddest :O(

[FlatSpinMan]

What do you mean? How has MP changed - its not even out yet?

And about the vote, it's not like the vocal minority were pushing for things only they would benefit from, but in fact, entirely the opposite. For what it's worth, I voted in favour of keeping the gunpods exclusive, not that I really minded either way.

Now I have to share my toys with the other kids. Grrr. Superior fire power was about all I had going for me. Now I'm screwed.

[FlatSpinMan]

In an election you'd have to be living under a rock to miss the news that an election vote was being taken,

And yet turnout in most national elections hovers around 50-60% in countries with penalties for not voting. Drop down to regional or city elections and you're down even further - and that is for stuff that actually matters. That we didn't have higher turnout for a poll on a forum for a game that hasn't been released yet doesn't really blow me away.

 

I agree about the goodness of having different sim/game options around though. No need for zealotry.

[BMA_West]

^^

Look at lots of dev decisions in ROF's development, they followed the view of a hard core inner community, from alpha state on.

The polls in there never reflected on the real numbers of the game owners/participants.

Look where that got it in particular MP, ... sad, sadder, saddest :O(

 

 

What do you mean? How has MP changed - its not even out yet?

Sorry FSM, was comparing to ROF.

What I meant was not about the gun pots, I couldn't care less about those, it is about involving the whole player base, which is a quite a challenge in itself.

Edited November 11, 2013 by West

[thx1138]

Now I have to share my toys with the other kids. Grrr. Superior fire power was about all I had going for me. Now I'm screwed.

 

Do you realize how elitest you sound here ?

 

I hope you use the gunpods, at least my LaGG will stand a much better chance against you performance wise.

[Rama]

  it is about involving the whole player base, which is a quite a challenge in itself.

 

It's not a challenge... it's impossible involving the peoples not wanting to be involved.

 

When the dev wants to have the opinion of the custommers (those who are interested enough on the development to follow the dev news on a forum), the only tool they have is a poll on the forums. There ins't any other tool.

So yes, only a minority will answer, but it's a safe assumption to say that those who know there's a poll (and all those who follow the dev news on the forum knows it, especially when there's a poll section that everybody can visit from time to time to check if there's isn't any new poll) and don't vote, don't care or don't feel concerned about the result of it. it's like all elections everywhere.

When the dev follows this custommer opinion (which is representative of the involved community), then it's a bad grief to accuse them following a minority opinion (since this minority is the only one who care and has an opinion to give to the devs).

[Rama]

One reason for bringing this up is that some of the most vocal people complaining about it and perhaps making people feel badly simply for accepting a gift were people who had not pre-ordered and didn't seem to have any real intention of buying the sim.

Most of the "vocal people complaining", if not all, were peoples who pre-ordered (and sometimes also gifted) the game. Your argument is more than moot.

Do you realize how elitest you sound here ?

I think it was ironic.

[Major_Hero]

Very much looking forward to the coming months. I feel like a russian pilot in training

[FlatSpinMan]

Sorry FSM, was comparing to ROF.

  

Ah, okay.

 

 

Do you realize how elitest you sound here ?

Don't worry - I was kidding.

[thx1138]

  

Ah, okay.

 

 

 

Don't worry - I was kidding.

 

 

Ok sorry, I hadn't had my first cup of coffee yet. Now 3 cups later I'm good, I apologize.

[FlatSpinMan]

No need.

[I/JG27_Rollo]

[...] yet the vote swung in favour of keeping the gunpods exclusive by 10% in the last few days of the poll. [...]

I did only see the numbers on this forum section and it ended 400:263 in favour of the non-exclusiveness. Did so many on the Russian forum vote otherwise?

 

I don't think anyone needs to feel bad about wanting the pods exclusive. It's everyone's personal choice of course.

However, my major gripe with the ensuing debate back then is/was that some wanted to insinuate (hope that's the right word) that the 'others' wanted to refuse a gift which, wasn't true for most people. I for example said "thanks for the gift but if it influences gameplay mechanics, please give everyone the chance to get it". That's what we get now and I'm happy about it. Plus, Loft stated that it will be very hard to get for non-founders and that's fine. The important part is, that everyone can eventually get it if he/she so desires.

 

I for one will put that whole thing aside now and look forward to next week.

[FlatSpinMan]

All's well that ends well.

[SYN_Ricky]

I can wait a week more to fly the LaGG-3, that video surely made me drool

 

And just a little video I came across

 

http://youtu.be/EWSCwQr33f4

Edited November 11, 2013 by SYN_Ricky

[J4SCrisZeri]

 

Keep calm and resist, those 8 days will look like a mere memory sooner than we expect!

[=AVG=Zombie]

Cool vid, I say it is more like "Two Weeks". LOL

[Stlkrash]

Yes the standard date should be now a week later, so judging by the PM info I have that would now put it at AFTER CHRISTMAS. They should wait a week longer also. It's rather easy to see how this works. If the line is pushed back, the WHOLE line is pushed. See how it works.

 

And I agree totally with the posts up there about the communication from the studio. Not real great.. I sent numerous ideas to fix that...

Edited November 11, 2013 by Rama
removed provocative stuff

[Jaws2002]

Its funny . . . some of the responses here. I mean if you look around, we actually have it really good. 

 

We have videos, a detailed roadmap of release, we know alot of the features and game properties, increasing detail of the alpha, and a chance for playage this late autumn / winter. We are really close to a real, working, hard core SIM since IL-2. ( I don't count CLOD because it worked and it didn't work). 

 

 

 

 

War Thunder / WOP they have to insert coin, and its as fun as XWing vs TIE . . . literally and FM / DM

 

Then there is DCS WW2. After the madness of the kickstart and the lack of regular updates, they got super happy at a couple of pics. But they have a general roadmap (but it could change).  Of course they have a working game with one plane in it (the P-51) but it was already there before DCS WW2 inception. 

 

Now they are back to happily discussing Kurfurst stats complete with charts like the IL-2 forums of old and 190 bars. Of course they are raking the devs over the coals also but they've gone into the chart arguments. 

 

But sometimes isn't as mean spirited, trolling, or baiting, or insidious insinuative instigation that some are stating here. 

 

If it was an individual doing that to another providing service or product, say like at a store 99.9% of the reaction they would get, is to kick the rude customer out and no soup for them. Especially if the service or product is really good (like BOS) 

 

I wouldn't be surprised how thin the WW2 sim devs are is because alot of devs that have the talent and time find it alot easier to go elsewhere for their skill (low cost and close to a third or half of the customer base suddenly goes kindergarten ugly when the update comes an hour late).

 

Design a world class FPS and rake in billions, even if its messed up a bit, if its good 95% of playbase will give it thumbs up. Design a world class WW 2 sim and hope to cover costs, even if its good, you'll get 30-50% saying they didn't do this or that, so it should be smashed and beat with a wiffle ball bat so . . . and thats even before beta. After release  . . .

 

Most companies dealing with this sort if issues would pack up an leave for greener  grasses. . . (since WW 2 isn't necessary like medical, military or emergency services) . . . but the devs here are being calm and cool, and taking the damage and instead of condemning us to development hell, they take the scourging and keep us in the loop in a Christ like fashion. 

 

And in the golden era (of sim dev)  there wasn't the internet (the way it is now) to provide a breeding ground for a wide spread contagion of falsehood and misread announcements. 

 

So just remember how good we have it. 

 

We here at BOS have it really, really good. Take time and bounce out to the competition. We'll have a working game next year with several planes, a period map, lots of stuff to blow up and shoot down

 

While they  have a map of georgia with just a P-51 and a AI Dora to fly against. Or P-51 vs modern copters or A-10's / jets. 

 

 

I never understood how some people, like you, think. Why can't you enjoy a game without throwing mud on everything else?  I've seen this attitude when ROF was released, I've seen this attitude when CLOD was released and basically every other flight sim out there. Some people are so unsecure about their gaming choices that have to attack others for questioning anything.

 If you are enjoying a game why can't you be happy and enjoy it, without ridiculing other games? Why the attitude? Does it affect you so much, that other people can have fun with other games, other settings, other aircraft, other time period........ ?

I tried all of them and wasn't one of them that that was not fun in some respect.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Rama]

Actually, the "Standard" is slated for "Before Xmas" "Not After" Direct quote I have.

 

Yes the standard date should be now a week later, so judging by the PM info I have that would now put it at AFTER CHRISTMAS.

What is this fantasy?

 

Here is what is officially said for standard early access, from the start:

Buyers of the Standard Edition will get early access in winter 2013 prior to public release.

So it was never said that Standard edition will get early access before Christmas,... as far as I know.

[FuriousMeow]

So, in essence we DID pay for earlier access than the standard preorder, then? I mean, if its a gift included in the $40 extra we paid then, that sounds like it was one of the benefits of buying the Premium preorder - not the only one, but certainly one of. I was always interested anyway, but getting earliest access definitely held some appeal.

Your interpretation sounds to me like buying a $40 shopping bag and receipt and getting a product thrown in for free.

Anyway, we both agree that the Premium preorder is a good deal as it gives you extra planes and is cheaper than the Premium release version.

 

 

 

But you didn't pay $40 for early access. Premium costs $40 more than Standard whether you buy Pre-Order, or purchase it at the time of release. So arguing that the $40 is for the earliest access is non-sensical when the packages are $40 difference whenever it's purchased.

Edited November 11, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[DD_bongodriver]

^{We invite you to become a participant in the development of BOS by placing a Pre-Order. By doing this, you will be the first to get access to the product and help us to make it even better. The combat flight-sim genre now needs your attention; modest budgets do not allow the realization of everything virtual pilots dream about at once. But together we can truly revolutionize the genre and bring back a true legend to the sky!}

 

 

Early Access: Buyers of the Standard Edition will get early access in winter 2013 prior to public release. Buyers of Premium Edition will get the early access in autumn 2013.

 

 

I paid 89.99 for early access, only 10 less than retail premium.

[Livai]

I have a little worry about the game and I not mean the Alpha Version of the game because what I have read, here a example  "We are not going to finish a game version of proper quality"  I think that is a hard statement because this give me to think about the quality of the game and what we get at the end of the road.

 

[JaMz]

I have a little worry about the game and I not mean the Alpha Version of the game because what I have read, here a example  "We are not going to finish a game version of proper quality"  I think that is a hard statement because this give me to think about the quality of the game and what we get at the end of the road.

 

I think your worrying about nothing..

 

This means the Alpha version your getting access to will not be of the finished product

[Revvin]

But you didn't pay $40 for early access. Premium costs $40 more than Standard whether you buy Pre-Order, or purchase it at the time of release. So arguing that the $40 is for the earliest access is non-sensical when the packages are $40 difference whenever it's purchased.

Getting the earliest opportunity to try this sim was a big draw for me and was one of the prominent features of the premium package - that and the two planes as having real value over a founders tag and a few skins. The earlier access was one of the big distinctions between the two options.

[HagarTheHorrible]

But you didn't pay $40 for early access. Premium costs $40 more than Standard whether you buy Pre-Order, or purchase it at the time of release. So arguing that the $40 is for the earliest access is non-sensical when the packages are $40 difference whenever it's purchased.

Early Access: Buyers of the Standard Edition will get early access in winter 2013 prior to public release. Buyers of Premium Edition will get the early access in autumn 2013.

 

How does this fit in with what you are saying ?

 

 

I certainly paid an extra $40 to get access at the earliest opportunity, or at least that's what I thought I did. I might also be getting two extra aircraft and a couple of trinkets, but primarily I bought the premium in order to get access to the game, even in it's unfinished state, and also to support the developers with some money up front.

[WWLily]

 

While they  have a map of georgia with just a P-51 and a AI Dora to fly against. Or P-51 vs modern copters or A-10's / jets. 

 

LOL, tried that; not much fun getting shot down from 4nm out.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

*sipping a cup of earl... correcting his monocle*

 

I really hope these 8 days will pass by swiftly so we have something to really discuss... all I pretty much see in here these days are repetitions of old arguments from other threads; "I paid this and that" and "I expect to.." and "that sim is that and that sim is this"...

 

getting really old and quite frankly.. and tad boring. 

[FuriousMeow]

Early Access: Buyers of the Standard Edition will get early access in winter 2013 prior to public release. Buyers of Premium Edition will get the early access in autumn 2013.

 

How does this fit in with what you are saying ?

 

 

I certainly paid an extra $40 to get access at the earliest opportunity, or at least that's what I thought I did. I might also be getting two extra aircraft and a couple of trinkets, but primarily I bought the premium in order to get access to the game, even in it's unfinished state, and also to support the developers with some money up front.

 

Do a price comparison between Standard and Premium. Both the Pre-order and the release pricing model.

 

Notice something smiliar? There is a $40 difference between the packages in both instances. You paid $40 more for the premium package, not for the earliest access - that was a bonus. Otherwise the packages at release would not still be $40 difference between them.

[Stlkrash]

Rama you have a PM ...

 

And, Meow, you are mostly correct and they should have been a lot more clear in this program, and they have admitted it.

 

It's not about 40$ stop reading it wrong..

Edited November 11, 2013 by Rama
Removing comments breaking forum rule #6

[DD_bongodriver]

Do a price comparison between Standard and Premium. Both the Pre-order and the release pricing model.

 

Notice something smiliar? There is a $40 difference between the packages in both instances. You paid $40 more for the premium package, not for the earliest access - that was a bonus. Otherwise the packages at release would not still be $40 difference between them.

 

Furious, one of the selling points for premium pre-order was early access, there is simply no arguing against that point.

[StG2_Manfred]

*sipping a cup of earl... correcting his monocle*

 

I really hope these 8 days will pass by swiftly so we have something to really discuss... all I pretty much see in here these days are repetitions of old arguments from other threads; "I paid this and that" and "I expect to.." and "that sim is that and that sim is this"...

 

getting really old and quite frankly.. and tad boring.

 

+1

 

They just need a little bit more time, cause they want to make it good. What are a couple of weeks more or less compared to that short development time. Soon we all will be happy!

[ATAG_Slipstream]

 there is simply no arguing against that point.

Its the internet!