Developer Diary, Part 40

[Stlkrash]

Oh no not at all, fair is fair though right? We all paid in so any kind of delays should be for everyone, should it not? Did I miss something? Not bitter. But if I paid in and get postponed, why shouldn't you?  Or simply just send back the difference to those who did pay in extra if it went that far, not saying it would be pushed again or that far, but let's be fair.

[FuriousMeow]

Again, you did NOT pay more for early access over Standard. You paid more for everything else you are getting over Standard. The earlier access is a reward for purchasing the Premium package.

[skouras]

nice news thanks guys...

[sop]

Would be worst decision they could make and makes no sense, people need to get over this, why would you want to punish your fellow sim pilot, I just don't get it....

[HagarTheHorrible]

Again, you did NOT pay more for early access over Standard. You paid more for everything else you are getting over Standard. The earlier access is a reward for purchasing the Premium package.

 

Don't quite follow what you are trying to say there  You say it's not then you finish by saying it is.

 

Premium purchasers paid for privileged access, before everyone else, including those who purchased the Standard edition, did they not ?  It seems quite clear, to me, in the purchase description, Premium have access in the Autumn of 2013 while Standard subscribers get access in the Winter, or am I wrong in thinking that, because that is what it says, in black and white on the purchases page.  Correct me if I am wrong but the only reason to delay access to Standard edition holders over that of Premium is getting more cash in, not because of some technical reason.  It was a privilege offered to Premium purchasers in exchange for more money, pure and simple.  I can't think why you are under the impression that Premium purchasers only paid for a few extra planes and trinkets ?

Edited November 10, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[FuriousMeow]

Do you pay for rewards? No, no you don't.

 

Notice how the $40 difference between Standard and Premium still exists with the release version in 7 months.

 

So, no, that $40 difference did NOT pay for earlier access. It was a gift.

 I can't think why you are under the impression that Premium purchasers only paid for a few extra planes and trinkets ?

 

Because, that's a fact. There's still a $40 difference between Standard and Premium purchases with the release version purchase. So I can't think why you think you paid for earlier access, when you did not.

Correct me if I am wrong but the only reason to delay access to Standard edition holders over that of Premium is getting more cash in, not because of some technical reason.

 

Well, you're wrong. It's alpha, so there's a myriad of technical reasons to delay it.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Do you pay for rewards? No, no you don't.

 

Notice how the $40 difference between Standard and Premium still exists with the release version in 7 months.

 

So, no, that $40 difference did NOT pay for earlier access. It was a gift.

 

Sorry, I'm probably just being a bit thick, but I just don't follow you, not to mention why you seem quite so concerned about it.

 

It state quite clearly on the purchases page that Premium get access from the Autumn and Standard from the Winter, if I remember correctly that has always been the case.  If that weren't true and the extra $40 didn't pay, in part, for earlier access over that of Standard why does it differentiate between the two on the purchases page, why not just open up access to both groups at the same time ?

 

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I'm just trying to understand where either you, or I have got mixed up.

Edited November 10, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[FuriousMeow]

It's the misinformation and intentional misrepresentation by a select few that is getting old and why it must be constantly re-iterated that what the pre-order is a) less money than the release version and b) the Premium and Standard disparity in cost and features is still present with the release model.

 

You did NOT pay $40 more for earlier access than Standard, you pre-ordered for earlier access. The $40 difference between Standard and Premium is still very much present with the release version costs - so $40 can't be the payment for pre-order. Get it? You paid for the 190 and La5 with the $40 disparity between Standard and Premium. The earlier access over Standard was a gift.

[dburne]

Do you pay for rewards? No, no you don't.

 

Notice how the $40 difference between Standard and Premium still exists with the release version in 7 months.

 

So, no, that $40 difference did NOT pay for earlier access. It was a gift.

 

Because, that's a fact. There's still a $40 difference between Standard and Premium purchases with the release version purchase. So I can't think why you think you paid for earlier access, when you did not.

 

 

If I may offer my opinion on this topic:

 

Everyone who bought Premium Edition, or even  Standard, did so for their own reason. Not everyone bought it for exactly the same reason. Some to support. Some to get a free plane or two. Yes, even some for the early access - I mean how cool is that, get to run the sim even though alpha with all the other Premium buyers, before anyone else.

 

So I do not think it is correct to say to someone, you did not buy it for the early access. Depends on the individual and why they bought it.

I do not agree with what some are asking however, but I do see why the disappointment in some.

[DD_bongodriver]

I paid for the premium because I wanted the extra planes 'and' the early access that was clearly promised.....oh and the discount.

Edited November 10, 2013 by DD_bongodriver

[FuriousMeow]

I paid for the premium because I wanted the extra planes 'and' the early access that was clearly promised.....oh and the discount.

 

Which we're all still getting.

 

The Standard early access will more than likely be in late December, if that.

So I do not think it is correct to say to someone, you did not buy it for the early access. Depends on the individual and why they bought it.

 

 

When citing $40 disparity as the reason, then yes - it is correct to say they did not pay $40 more for early access because that $40 disparity exists with the full release pricing model 5 to 7 months from now.

[DD_bongodriver]

And that's the point, with 3 different reasons to go for the premium pre-order it means that  some people will have chosen for different reasons, or at least prioritised their choices differently.

[HagarTheHorrible]

It's the misinformation and intentional misrepresentation by a select few that is getting old and why it must be constantly re-iterated that what the pre-order is a) less money than the release version and b) the Premium and Standard disparity in cost and features is still present with the release model.

 

You did NOT pay $40 more for earlier access than Standard, you pre-ordered for earlier access. The $40 difference between Standard and Premium is still very much present with the release version costs - so $40 can't be the payment for pre-order. Get it? You paid for the 190 and La5 with the $40 disparity between Standard and Premium. The earlier access over Standard was a gift.

 

I give up, it's not worth arguing about.

 

I just can't understand why you should think it's intentional misrepresentation by a select few, what information do you have access to that those select few don't ?  It says nothing about early access being a gift that I can see on the purchase page.

 

Early Access: Buyers of the Standard Edition will get early access in winter 2013 prior to public release. Buyers of Premium Edition will get the early access in autumn 2013.

 

That seems quite unequivocal to me, pay more money and you will get early early access, the actual monetary difference between that and any other version is, to my mind, irrelevant.

Edited November 10, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[FuriousMeow]

And some of those people believed it would be a fully complete game 7 months prior to release.

[DD_bongodriver]

And some of those people believed it would be a fully complete game 7 months prior to release.

 

I don't believe I saw a single person make any such claim.

[FuriousMeow]

That seems quite unequivical to me, pay more money and you will get early early access

 

Because, you paid more money for two planes. Aside from the slightly earlier access between Standard and Premium, what's the MOST significant difference that would actually be worth $40? Two planes.

I don't believe I saw a single person make any such claim.

 

Really? People thought they'd be dogfighting, and have access to more than one or two planes in several threads here. Like the "what will you do" thread.

[DD_bongodriver]

Really? People thought they'd be dogfighting, and have access to more than one or two planes in several threads here. Like the "what will you do" thread.

 

That thread was started before any of the details of early release were given.

[FuriousMeow]

7 months prior to the title's release. You don't need details. Find my post in that thread, what does it say?

[Stlkrash]

Actually, the "Standard" is slated for "Before Xmas" "Not After" Direct quote I have.

 

Now, It seems according to "Some" to use "Some" people's words, the only opinions allowed are "Theirs". 

 

Stuff that.. My original post said "I told you so" as I predicted weeks ago..

[DD_bongodriver]

7 months prior to the title's release. You don't need details. Find my post in that thread, what does it say?

 

it says that you are the one single person that knew exactly what was coming, the only one who was not surprised, the only one who was not disappointed and the loudest voice criticising anyone who didn't have your gift of foresight.

[Rjel]

Waaait a minute. Are you guys saying we DIDN'T have to buy BoS? It was free choice? Even though what was written over and over again covered most of the concerns still being griped about by a few? Wow! I didn't know.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Rjel

[DD_bongodriver]

Well if you wanted early access, the FW190 and La5 and a discount you 'had' to buy the pre-order.

[Stlkrash]

It's really kind of simple. It's not ready. We knew it wouldn't be ready, but nobody wants to admit it.  The bets are going now, if the 19th is real or not.  Vegas has a line on it.

 

As far as the rest, Yep some bought early for dev reasons for 3rd party things like me and need the step up on the sim itself.

 

Some bought to buy... What ever it is.. But, like anything else, that "Push back", should be for all. You standard purchasers can wait longer like the rest. 

Edited November 11, 2013 by Stlkrash

[Revvin]

One of the selling points to me was the earlier access, the limitations of the early access were poorly communicated and the gift of gun pods has been reversed based on a minority vote.

[DD_bongodriver]

None of it matters, so there was a hiccup, we'll all live.

[Marrond]

the gift of gun pods has been reversed based on a minority vote.

Huh? As far as I can remember Founders voted in a pool over that matter. Results based on a minority vote would be quite the opposite (no gunpods for others). Not sure what you're trying to say here. Edited November 11, 2013 by Marrond

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Good grief guys, are we still doing this...really?

[crossfade]

All i can say is   i love the vid take as long as you deem fit you guys are great and making my dreams come true this is what clod should have been.

 

+10000

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

Waaait a minute. Are you guys saying we DIDN'T have to buy BoS? It was free choice? Even though what was written over and over again covered most of the concerns still being griped about by a few? Wow! I didn't know.

No! I went over to their house's and held a 45 to there head and told them "pull the trigger and buy it"!

[Cybermat47]

You standard purchasers can wait longer like the rest.

 

They ARE waiting longer! They're getting their access at a later date, which means, obviously, that they'll have to wait longer than us!

We're getting it in Spring/Autumn (depends on the hemisphere), they're getting it in Summer/Winter. They'll still have to wait longer. I payed for two extra planes and early access, and I'm still getting both of those.

[Stray]

Reversing anything that was announced earlier is a bad, bad call.

 

The more I am around here, the more I begin to wonder.

Edited November 11, 2013 by 9./JG54_Stray

[Dirkbert84]

It would be curious what the average age of the combined posters in this thread REALLY is.  Right now it sounds like a number less than 5.  Let's all be adults an continue to watch the video of the amazing sim we are about to get a hold of.

[Cybermat47]

  Let's all be adults an continue to watch the video of the amazing sim we are about to get a hold of.

Well, the rest of you can be adults. My contract states I have to be annoying and egotistical for the next 4 years

[Sokol1]

It would be curious what the average age of the combined posters in this thread REALLY is.  Right now it sounds like a number less than 5.  Let's all be adults an continue to watch the video of the amazing sim we are about to get a hold of.

 

Nah, let them, these "word'fights" are part of the show, since ~2001. It's funny. 

 

Sokol1

[TheBlackPenguin]

Nah, let them, these "word'fights" are part of the show, since ~2001. It's funny. 

 

Sokol1

 

And it'll all be forgotten once the alpha's, beta's, final release occurs

[III/JG11_Tiger]

Yep, what's 40$ extra right. No worries at all really.  It's all good as long as the "Winter" access buyers are pushed back equally since some paid extra and all that. Dev curve is a dev curve, and should effect ALL equally right.

 Wow how old are you?

 

Why would you want to punish others just because the release is delayed, I would be more than happy if they were all allowed to join in at the start, after all the extra money is really for the extras we get, the alpha access is just a bonus.

[Skoshi_Tiger]

No! I went over to their house's and held a 45 to there head and told them "pull the trigger and buy it"!

Oh! I wondered who that was! I must say in person you do look mighty different to your avitar! 

 

I guess in a few weeks we'll all be scratching our heads wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

Video looks great, can't (but probabably will have to ) wait to down load it!

 

Cheers!

Edited November 11, 2013 by Skoshi_Tiger

[FlyingNutcase]

Insert "Flogging a dead horse" gif here.   

 

They can take all the time they want with ground-breaking quality like in the LaGG-3 vid. We are in for a treat, coming soon. 

[hiro]

Its funny . . . some of the responses here. I mean if you look around, we actually have it really good. 

 

We have videos, a detailed roadmap of release, we know alot of the features and game properties, increasing detail of the alpha, and a chance for playage this late autumn / winter. We are really close to a real, working, hard core SIM since IL-2. ( I don't count CLOD because it worked and it didn't work). 

 

 

 

 

War Thunder / WOP they have to insert coin, and its as fun as XWing vs TIE . . . literally and FM / DM

 

Then there is DCS WW2. After the madness of the kickstart and the lack of regular updates, they got super happy at a couple of pics. But they have a general roadmap (but it could change).  Of course they have a working game with one plane in it (the P-51) but it was already there before DCS WW2 inception. 

 

Now they are back to happily discussing Kurfurst stats complete with charts like the IL-2 forums of old and 190 bars. Of course they are raking the devs over the coals also but they've gone into the chart arguments. 

 

But sometimes isn't as mean spirited, trolling, or baiting, or insidious insinuative instigation that some are stating here. 

 

If it was an individual doing that to another providing service or product, say like at a store 99.9% of the reaction they would get, is to kick the rude customer out and no soup for them. Especially if the service or product is really good (like BOS) 

 

I wouldn't be surprised how thin the WW2 sim devs are is because alot of devs that have the talent and time find it alot easier to go elsewhere for their skill (low cost and close to a third or half of the customer base suddenly goes kindergarten ugly when the update comes an hour late).

 

Design a world class FPS and rake in billions, even if its messed up a bit, if its good 95% of playbase will give it thumbs up. Design a world class WW 2 sim and hope to cover costs, even if its good, you'll get 30-50% saying they didn't do this or that, so it should be smashed and beat with a wiffle ball bat so . . . and thats even before beta. After release  . . .

 

Most companies dealing with this sort if issues would pack up an leave for greener  grasses. . . (since WW 2 isn't necessary like medical, military or emergency services) . . . but the devs here are being calm and cool, and taking the damage and instead of condemning us to development hell, they take the scourging and keep us in the loop in a Christ like fashion. 

 

And in the golden era (of sim dev)  there wasn't the internet (the way it is now) to provide a breeding ground for a wide spread contagion of falsehood and misread announcements. 

 

So just remember how good we have it. 

 

We here at BOS have it really, really good. Take time and bounce out to the competition. We'll have a working game next year with several planes, a period map, lots of stuff to blow up and shoot down

 

While they  have a map of georgia with just a P-51 and a AI Dora to fly against. Or P-51 vs modern copters or A-10's / jets. 

Edited November 11, 2013 by hiro

[I/JG27_Rollo]

I sincerely hope that standard early access is not delayed.

 

However, the reason why premium early access got set back was a delay in development. The early access is tied to certain content being in the game and for premium that stage was not reached until next week.

So unless the devs can catch up in development, further content and thus the standard early access, which is probably tied to it, might get delayed just as much... hopefully not, though.

 

 

One of the selling points to me was the earlier access, the limitations of the early access were poorly communicated and the gift of gun pods has been reversed based on a minority vote.

 

1. What has been reversed? The gun pod gift? No! Founders are still getting the gun pods unlocked and ready to go. What has been reversed is the ability to glance down and laugh at non-founders and say "Ha Ha, I got 20mm gun pods and you don't." If that's what some people wanted then not much was lost that day.

 

2. What minority? Just as in any election, only those who actually vote, can be counted. People who weren't able or didn't care to vote are left out of the equation. And of those who voted, the majority was against the exclusivity. Time to accept that...

 

*flog*

Sorry horse.