Developer Diary, Part 39

[VonSensburg]

Great update dev's!

I'm totally with You with small step progress rather than waiting 7 more month's for finished product.

For me personally alfa time will be great to learn flying 25 years older planes with turbo engines, flaps and... parachutes

Can't wait. Thank's.

[TAiWf]

I would support an enthusiastic simulation developer anytime, but I really don't like being cheated. Even if the cheating is based on abusing the difference between my understanding of terms and the actual vendor's interpretation. This means creating a EULA on every goddam word, and taking everything to court... Do we really live in this kind of world already?"

 

Apparently you do. I don't. Wake up and smell the coffee. world doesn't rotate around you. All this whining about early access not being suitable for me is really tiresome.

It's not about "not being suitable for me", it's about playing on people's belief of what they would get for their money and accepting it as granted to skilfully "surprise" them afterwards. Nice job, all I can say.

Clearly, if the pre-order text wouldn't has been "tactically" "concise", there were way less founders. It's not my fantasy, it's given. So, to not make it happen, let's make it look we "forgot" to tell the whole story... That's what I hate.

 

They could just ask clearly. They could say that they REALLY need money and put ALL the info about the pre-purchases, but no... It wouldn't be smart, right? 

Edited November 2, 2013 by TAiWf

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

 

 

Point taken.

[Gort]

 

I would support an enthusiastic simulation developer anytime, but I really don't like being cheated. Even if the cheating is based on abusing the difference between my understanding of terms and the actual vendor's interpretation. This means creating a EULA on every goddam word, and taking everything to court... Do we really live in this kind of world already?

No, we live in a world where too many people assign too much importance to minor inconvenience. A very small investment is treated as if someome's entire life savings was risked, and the lack of perspective is turned drama far in excess of the actual situation. Cheated? What a laugh.

 

As the sim progresses, the days of availability will expand, and more time will be available for those who chose to invest early, all the while understanding clearly that risk was involved. In fact, it will be a lot of fun watching how the sim develops, even if your work schedule limits access for awhile. Many get it, a few don't.

 

The funny aspect to me, is to watch kids whine about a sim that depicts horrible conditions that took place during a ruthless time when young pilots were dealing with death and loss every day of their lives. They certainly are too busy thinking about themselves to consider context.

 

The answer to your question is that "kind of world we live in" is very, very easy.

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

I for one will be trying out the prop effect against some ones tail soon...

[FlatSpinMan]

Nope, Taiwif. I'm not biting.

You have your opinion. That's fine. Just make sure that if you express it here you do so in a way that does not disrespect the developers or question their motives. I doubt there's anyone would say they got into CFS development for the vast material rewards.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

It's not about "not being suitable for me", it's about playing on people's belief of what they would get for their money and accepting it as granted to skilfully "surprise" them afterwards. Nice job, all I can say.

Clearly, if the pre-order text wouldn't has been "tactically" "concise", there were way less founders. It's not my fantasy, it's given. So, to not make it happen, let's make it look we "forgot" to tell the whole story... That's what I hate.

 

They could just ask clearly. They could say that they REALLY need money and put ALL the info about the pre-purchases, but no... It wouldn't be smart, right? 

 

And by people's beliefs, you mean your beliefs. So you think that every time your definition of something is different than someone else's and you don't get your way, you are being cheated... Good luck to you in the road you have chosen.

I think this concludes my "contribution" to this thread. I am annoyed enough as it is, and most likely would be even less constructive if I said something more...

[TAiWf]

@Victory205

"Kids whine"? For me it looks more like kids start calling names whilst running low on valid arguments... Next time your flat gets robbed or you get swindled, behave like an adult - do nothing.

If you find $90 easy to shell out on words, well, you are quite a rich fellow. Why don't you help the devs so that for you it would feel as quite a loss too then?

And by people's beliefs, you mean your beliefs. So you think that every time your definition of something is different than someone else's and you don't get your way, you are being cheated... Good luck to you in the road you have chosen.

I think this concludes my "contribution" to this thread. I am annoyed enough as it is, and most likely would be even less constructive if I said something more...

Well, am I the only one who feels cheated? Probably you should read the thread more carefully then... People are disappointed on the underdelivery here. And it would be ok, if that was on the software part itself. But it's rather on the people treatment part.

[MACADEMIC]

I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here, accusing the developers of lying, cheating and some other disingenious motives. Over what? Because you've preordered the game at a discounted overall price including some extras, an element of which is early access to the game in development? And because that same development effort necessitates that access be restricted for some time you're stomping your feet and making such strong accusations over and over again?

 

You lot don't deserve to even carry the founder's badge. You're not helping the development effort with your childish rages and I'm seriously annoyed how much room you're allowed to occupy here. You should be given your money back and banned from all founder's topics, your behaviour is an indication you're not capable of dealing with the realities of Alpha and Beta versions of the game (i.e. bugs) anyway.

 

So please do the majority here a favour and stay away and don't any longer pretend to be a supporter of the genre. You'll still find plenty to complain when you'll have bought the release version of the game at full price.

 

 

MAC

[BFsSmurfy]

" But it's rather on the people treatment part"  no mate that`s just wrong, they`ve been more available and honest than the past franchise owner, they talk to the punters and don`t disappear off the face of the earth. I`d love to see what some people who feel wronged posted after they downloaded the previous game, now that`s what you call taken for a ride.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Point taken.

S!

[Gunsmith86]

I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here, accusing the developers of lying, cheating and some other disingenious motives. Over what? Because you've preordered the game at a discounted overall price including some extras, an element of which is early access to the game in development? And because that same development effort necessitates that access be restricted for some time you're stomping your feet and making such strong accusations over and over again?

 

You lot don't deserve to even carry the founder's badge. You're not helping the development effort with your childish rages and I'm seriously annoyed how much room you're allowed to occupy here. You should be given your money back and banned from all founder's topics, your behaviour is an indication you're not capable of dealing with the realities of Alpha and Beta versions of the game (i.e. bugs) anyway.

 

So please do the majority here a favour and stay away and don't any longer pretend to be a supporter of the genre. You'll still find plenty to complain when you'll have bought the release version of the game at full price.

 

 

MAC

 

Well said!

[Mac_Messer]

You lot don't deserve to even carry the founder's badge. You're not helping the development effort with your childish rages and I'm seriously annoyed how much room you're allowed to occupy here. You should be given your money back and banned from all founder's topics, your behaviour is an indication you're not capable of dealing with the realities of Alpha and Beta versions of the game (i.e. bugs) anyway.

 

So please do the majority here a favour and stay away and don't any longer pretend to be a supporter of the genre. You'll still find plenty to complain when you'll have bought the release version of the game at full price.

You`re not helping anyone by posting inflammatory stuff like that. Posts like this need to be deleted by the devs aswell.

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Based on my experience with the CoD forum, I would highly recommend we all simply put these TAiWf types on ignore..

 

The sooner the better!

 

Because nothing good will come from responding to his post or any attempts to change his point of view. The only thing you will accomplish by responding to his post is drawing more attention to his 'opinion', which is not based in reality IMHO, the sad truth is these 'types' of 'opinions' will only poison potential buyers of the sim, who don't take or have the time to realize what he is saying is not based in reality. Therefore the less you quote him the less chance anyone will read what he said.

 

Note it is nothing personal TAiWF, I just don't agree with your 'opinion' and I am simply trying to tell those who also don't agree with you 'opinion' that they would be better off just ignoring you than trying to change your mind. Only you can do that and it will clearly take more time and experience for this to happen.

Edited November 2, 2013 by ACEOFACES

[TAiWf]

I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here, accusing the developers of lying, cheating and some other disingenious motives. Over what? Because you've preordered the game at a discounted overall price including some extras, an element of which is early access to the game in development? And because that same development effort necessitates that access be restricted for some time you're stomping your feet and making such strong accusations over and over again?

 

You lot don't deserve to even carry the founder's badge. You're not helping the development effort with your childish rages and I'm seriously annoyed how much room you're allowed to occupy here. You should be given your money back and banned from all founder's topics, your behaviour is an indication you're not capable of dealing with the realities of Alpha and Beta versions of the game (i.e. bugs) anyway.

 

So please do the majority here a favour and stay away and don't any longer pretend to be a supporter of the genre. You'll still find plenty to complain when you'll have bought the release version of the game at full price.

 

 

MAC

Is it only me or this smells of fascism? Do you understand what you have written there? Not to mention that I clearly stated that I'm perfectly ok with bugs... I can't believe there are people like this in here... Oh, my...

 

 

" But it's rather on the people treatment part"  no mate that`s just wrong, they`ve been more available and honest than the past franchise owner, they talk to the punters and don`t disappear off the face of the earth. I`d love to see what some people who feel wronged posted after they downloaded the previous game, now that`s what you call taken for a ride.

It doesn't really matter what was done when, since we are talking about the current case of a vague promise made the way that would appeal to more people than there were know they all the truth behind the promise.

Let's suppose I'm wrong. Why withhold the information then?

[BMA_West]

You`re not helping anyone by posting inflammatory stuff like that. Posts like this need to be deleted by the devs aswell.

Realy Mac, you the acting moderator now?

Your given location says it all doesn't it

[TAiWf]

Based on my experience with the CoD forum, I would highly recommend we all simply put these TAiWf type on ignore.. The sooner the better, because nothing good will come from responding to his post or any attempts to change his point of view. The only thing you will accomplish by responding to his post is drawing more attention to his 'opinion', which is not based in reality IMHO, but sadly this 'type' of noise will only poison potential buyers of the sim, who don't take or have the time to realize what he is saying is not based in reality. Note it is nothing personal TAiWF, I just don't agree with your 'opinion' and I am simply trying to tell those who also don't agree with you 'opinion' that they would be better of just ignoring you than trying to change your mind. Only time and experience will enable you to change your own mind.

Fine by me, since I didn't pay $90 to have a very dubious "privilege" of deflecting various goings at my vision of what is shameful (and having 1C-supporters looking down on me)... Actually, I have a faint trace of hope that it wasn't 777's doing after all.

And yes, you are right. You can't change my mind. As I said, I would support them, AND I'm not withdrawing from the process as some... But you can't also change the fact that the pre-order deal was tactically ambiguous at best. Which is not a good thing to do... By a long margin. So I'm now very doubtful about where all this is going. And not only me, as you can see on other pages...

[AnaRasanen]

The whining is way past being entertaining. Now it's just annoying.

[Forager]

This obviously disappoints you, dburnette. Fair enough. Though I'd rather you stayed around with us, you are within your rights to take up the issue with customer support. That'd probably be more effective for you than complaining here on the forums, if you really are dissatisfied.

 

Good advice there FSM, I have already sent support 2 requests for a refund.

 

I guess they have not responded yet because I sent the first request Friday when I read DU 39 = 2 months with 3 weekday access.

 

They must have already gone home for the weekend which would explain no response to my second request sent later as I read the increasingly open attacks on people who are upset and the lack of moderator response to that but increased moderator response to dissenting opinions.

 

Perhaps I will recieve a response during the 72 hour Tue through Thur timeframe they offer for founders to use their game.

 

I think it might prove counter productive to advise customers to request a refund to shut them up.

[AndyJWest]

Is it only me or this smells of fascism? 

 

 

 

It's you. 

 

If you don't know what fascism 'smells like', you should do a little historical research. And then come back when you have even the slightest sense of proportion. It is only out of respect for forum members with a smidgen of decency that I restrain myself from posting images of what exactly fascism 'smells like'. Meanwhile, Google will provide plenty of evidence. I suggest you start by searching for "Belsen images".

[TAiWf]

It's you. 

 

If you don't know what fascism 'smells like', you should do a little historical research. And then come back when you have even the slightest sense of proportion. It is only out of respect for forum members with a smidgen of decency that I restrain myself from posting images of what exactly fascism 'smells like'. Meanwhile, Google will provide plenty of evidence. I suggest you start by searching for "Belsen images".

Well, give him the right, the power and the instruments, and you'll see me killed or got rid of otherwise... Just read the "You lot don't deserve" part and further on. Not even me, you see... "You lot"! Now we talk about genocide here. I don't expect understanding from you, or from any of you who decided to gang up on me for being objective on the question. I'm very disappointed with this community. Another reason to wish for an offline demonstrator, by the way...

[AnaRasanen]

Well, give him the right, the power and the instruments, and you'll see me killed or got rid of otherwise... Just read the "You lot don't deserve" part and further on. Not even me, you see... "You lot"! Now we talk about genocide here. I don't expect understanding from you, or from any of you who decided to gang up on me for being objective on the question. I'm very disappointed with this community. Another reason to wish for an offline demonstrator, by the way...

 

Drama queen.

[AndyJWest]

Edit: Deleted, per Bongodriver's advice below.

Edited November 2, 2013 by AndyJWest

[DD_bongodriver]

ACE made the best advice, leave the guy alone, it's between him and the devs, he won't keep talking if nobody keeps attacking him.

Edited November 2, 2013 by DD_bongodriver

[FlatSpinMan]

Okay. I'm over this. It's late here. I shall sleep upon it, then see what happens tomorrow.

This is all just talk about early access to a PC game after all.

 

We have tried hard to let people voice their opinions. My first post in this thread mentioned some concerns I had with this latest news. However, the devs are doing things this way for sound reasons, in my opinion.

 

As I said at the start of this thread, you are free to express your opinion, but you are not free to disparage the developers, who are trying to make this game ready for full release com next year.

 

Comments about trying to ,shut customers up', or being 'fascist' , or, and here's the best one so far, accusing the community of genocide (yes, really ' the intentional and systematic attempt at eradicating all members of a particular ethnicity or religion) by providing them with suggestions intended to help them strikes me as just a bit off. I'm pointing out a method of resolving someone's post-cognitive dissonance. Personally, as a supporter of BoS, I'd much rather that no-one cancelled, but if that's really what they want, then it's my duty to assist them in their request. Had I suggested that the first time this person had expressed displeasure then you might have a point, however, its been a week or so now and they still feel the same way, so I thought it might help.

If you have had no luck through the support link, try PMing Zak. If that doesn't work, PM a mod and we'll see what can be done.

 

As I said, its late here, I'm tired, and frankly uninterested, and I'm off to bed.

 

Post your opinions but everyone keep things calm, proportionate, and rational. Disagreement is fine but don't make it personal and unproductive. I have no qualms in handing out little holidays away from the trials and tribulations of this forum.

[TAiWf]

 @AndyJWest

 

 

TAiWf, seek the assistance of a qualified psychiatrist.

Well, at least I'm not going around telling people who should be kept out of where, and especially who takes too much space and should be therefore removed. Probably you have a wrong target for your advice? Being told I've lost my mind just because I don't like this kind of business, well...

 

 

ACE made the best advice, leave the guy alone, it's between him and the devs, he won't keep talking if nobody keeps attacking him.

If it were the devs who did this... Though they were ok with the final decision it seems.

[DD_Arthur]

Fascism?  Lol.  Sorry FSM, this probably won't help but I thought it too funny to ignore.        Sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG0Txk8RZi8

[Forager]

Thanks FSM, If I have not heard from support, I will try Zak.

 

Thanks for the offer of moderator help but I think staying in official developement channels for a refund would be the way to go. 

[FlatSpinMan]

That's quite good in places. I saw it earlier over at the site Osprey's associated with. They've done a better job of matching their dialogue with than most such vids do.

[thx1138]

Well, give him the right, the power and the instruments, and you'll see me killed or got rid of otherwise... Just read the "You lot don't deserve" part and further on. Not even me, you see... "You lot"! Now we talk about genocide here. I don't expect understanding from you, or from any of you who decided to gang up on me for being objective on the question. I'm very disappointed with this community. Another reason to wish for an offline demonstrator, by the way...

 

 

Dude, I'm really sorry you feel as upset as you do. Don't take others negitave comments towards you as personal, as they are as upset as you so just as you vented your feelings so do they. In the end it all evens out. Nothing in my life has ever turned out as perfectly as I wanted it to, and I've let others down just as they have let me down.

 

What I'm trying to say is please try and stick around, it's not that bad, just a bunch of frustrated people we all are at times, but thats human nature, don't let that bumm you out. I'm sure the dev's were not happy with the solution they came out with at all, but they are trying for the best possible product, not to try and make everyone happy at this early stage. Just keep in mind the end goal they have in mind. After seeing ROF I  know you will love it !

 

We are all our brothers keeper, so feel compassion towards those you dissagree with. By testing this alpha release you are being an asset to this community, so please give it a try.

 

Clear Skies

Allan

Edited November 2, 2013 by thx1138

[TAiWf]

Comments about trying to ,shut customers up', or being 'fascist' , or, and here's the best one so far, accusing the community of genocide (yes, really ' the intentional and systematic attempt at eradicating all members of a particular ethnicity or religion) by providing them with suggestions intended to help them strikes me as just a bit off. 

Have you read that "suggestion intended to help them" yourself? Do you really think THAT is a way to treat someone who you do not agree with? Now try to imagine that was pointed at you... Would that still feel like someone is "trying to help" you?

 

I'm not trying to get my money back. I just want the ones responsible not to think that they can come up with whatever trick they can and expect everyone to clap along. Sorry, but people felt bitter (some are trying to withdraw even), now it's your time to feel uneasy (and by this I mean the ones responsible).

[DD_bongodriver]

Come on man, chill, I agree with you but show some class.

[FuriousMeow]

Considering the alternatives, I have a hard time getting disappointed or upset with anything the development team is doing.

 

If the title were cancelled, then I would be disappointed.

Edited November 2, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[FlatSpinMan]

Nah, not doing this.

[DD_bongodriver]

[FlatSpinMan]

Now try to imagine that was pointed at you...

 

 

You insinuated that I and others in this forum would commit genocide.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Wow, I wish the unexpected restriction on early access was the worst thing that had ever happened in my life too.

[Sokol1]

 

 

Sokol1

[JtD]

Hey guys, there's a poll. Everyone can vote, gives them a voice, and no discussion about what who thinks someone else should or should not think, do or talk about, no votes discounted, all fair and square.

 

So vote here: http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1780-early-access-tue-thu-how-do-you-feel-about-it/ and get on with live. There are better things to do with live than to convince someone on the internet he's wrong, aren't there?

 

Just a suggestion, of course.

[TheBlackPenguin]

Is it likely we'll get to download and pre-load the software next week in preparation for the Alpha?