Developer Diary, Part 39

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

We all wanted more, the devs too, but just how far do you think a years worth of dev time of a ww2 flight sim will get you? do you think we should have a finished sim by now? im just really confused, do you think the devs have been in Barbados, kicking back, enjoying the sun and girls, watching the millions roll in?

 

They have got around 3000 pre-orders, good news yes? you know how far that goes to pay for the total work that's needed to get this sim done and finished? not nearly enough by a long way...a very long way.

The goal is to make a fantastic world war 2 flight sim that will sell by the bucket loads, the only way that happens is if BOS is a success when its released, the only way that happens is if the devs get it right in the time they have left and the sim is released to great acclaim by the all the flight sim critics, magazines, web sites, us flight sim nuts and you.

 

Word of mouth is everything now in this day and age, bad reviews at launch will kill this sim and any chance of future expansions, everything is geared towards that goal in 6 months time, the devs lives, our amount of early access time, my enjoyment and flight time with BOS.

 

You know what? im right with them, every step of the way, i want the same goal they do, i want a great sim to play for years to come, i want expansions, add-ons, new planes, updates and everything. If Jason or Loft told me tomorrow i couldn't play the early access because he thought it that would help the sims release in 6 months, i would gladly go with out my time with the early build, because i want the goal more than 6 months play time with a alpha, beta or what ever.

 

The same goes for the other world war 2 sim that's being developed, im right with the other guy too, he's getting my full support as well, and the non payed modders of already released sims, i want as many great sims as i can get my grubby hands on, more the merrier.

 

We could have a golden age of flight sims right round the corner, we have been in drought for years and years and years, waiting and waiting, and now we might have 3 sims to play next year, im excited, very excited by what we just might have in just 12 months time.

 

So, come on, you want the same as me right? the same as all us flight sim nut jobs want. So do what you can to help, test, play when you can, report bugs,moral support... what ever... and help support these and any other devs, or modders  trying to give you what you want, what we ALL want....

 

Please.

Edited November 2, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[ACG_Kraut]

Do the trees have the collision model? 2 months Lumberjacking could be fun.

 

Haha, if they made the yak anything close to as strong as the yak in WT, we could have ALL the forests around Stalingrad cleared in that time!

[SCG_Neun]

+1 Furbs.

[arjisme]

This being alpha afraid not, will have to wait on Requiem's YouTube vids for a while yet.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1844-instructional-videos/

He is very impatient like Bob Vanderstok (mission editor).

But what would you want him to show with 30% of the goodies available.

Those guys need the lot to deliver.

 

I appreciate the reply, but would like to hear something more definitive from the devs, if possible.  Maybe they will throw in some kind of readme or quickstart so we have a basic idea about engine management.

[II./JG1_StOtto]

Look forward to trying out the Lagg.

 

I am not a fan of fictional skins, but looks good.

[Hadwell]

gosh that 109 skin looks a lot better rendered on a 3d model than it did in the flat painting, glad i voted for it :D

[skline00]

Incredibly thorough explanation. I'm excited about the Nov 12-14 time frame.  "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" From what I have read and observed about these developers and my experience with ROF, we are all in store for a "delicious" dessert!

[Klaue]

We all wanted more, the devs too, but just how far do you think a years worth of dev time of a ww2 flight sim will get you? do you think we should have a finished sim by now? im just really confused, do you think the devs have been in Barbados, kicking back, enjoying the sun and girls, watching the millions roll in?

 

They have got around 3000 pre-orders, good news yes? you know how far that goes to pay for the total work that's needed to get this sim done and finished? not nearly enough by a long way...a very long way.

The goal is to make a fantastic world war 2 flight sim that will sell by the bucket loads, the only way that happens is if BOS is a success when its released, the only way that happens is if the devs get it right in the time they have left and the sim is released to great acclaim by the all the flight sim critics, magazines, web sites, us flight sim nuts and you.

 

Word of mouth is everything now in this day and age, bad reviews at launch will kill this sim and any chance of future expansions, everything is geared towards that goal in 6 months time, the devs lives, our amount of early access time, my enjoyment and flight time with BOS.

 

You know what? im right with them, every step of the way, i want the same goal they do, i want a great sim to play for years to come, i want expansions, add-ons, new planes, updates and everything. If Jason or Loft told me tomorrow i couldn't play the early access because he thought it that would help the sims release in 6 months, i would gladly go with out my time with the early build, because i want the goal more than 6 months play time with a alpha, beta or what ever.

 

The same goes for the other world war 2 sim that's being developed, im right with the other guy too, he's getting my full support as well, and the non payed modders of already released sims, i want as many great sims as i can get my grubby hands on, more the merrier.

 

We could have a golden age of flight sims right round the corner, we have been in drought for years and years and years, waiting and waiting, and now we might have 3 sims to play next year, im excited, very excited by what we just might have in just 12 months time.

 

So, come on, you want the same as me right? the same as all us flight sim nut jobs want. So do what you can to help, test, play when you can, report bugs,moral support... what ever... and help support these and any other devs, or modders  trying to give you what you want, what we ALL want....

 

Please.

 

+1 Spot on Furbs

Edited November 2, 2013 by BH_Klaue

[Taxman]

Add my +1 to Furbs post, thank you

[Bearcat]

Osprey please check your PMs..

 

Correct.  Ask yourself what was on the horizon a year ago.........

 

Nothing... WT was already here and whatever promise it had as a true sim got mashed up in it's implementation ... Cliffs of Dover was already here.. and being worked on by TF, with great success I might add.. but Battle of Moscow  was not on the horizon.. it was still in rumor mode with the last mention of it .. as a rumor .. in November of 2012. DCS WWII was not even a thought at that time. So yeah... as far as this project goes..

 

 

We need to consider that just 11 months ago none of this was even on the horizon.

[MACADEMIC]

Thanks for the update, nice skin!

 

MAC

[J2_Trupobaw]

To put things in perspective, here's video of 30% completed, original  DooM  - shows why dev diary says these things are normally not shown to players. Makes the fact that what 777 has at current stage can be made accessible for players at all (and not as curiosity / preview) rather impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6YTBTSsrqU#t=0m39s

[senseispcc]

30% is only a number not a reality, it could be more. 

 

For my first contact with IL2 the original one the Demo I could only fly 3 type of aircraft P39 (my favorite) Il2m3 and Bf109g2 or 6 I do not remember the exact type but I know I did enjoy it from the first instant until the final game arrived in the shop some months later. Also there were not so many missions playable and when the game first version arrived it was riddled with minor bugs how where one by one corrected and still are even after the official end of the official live of the game (see the new unofficial patches with new planes and other goodies.).

 

And ROF is the same sort of game and when I see that nearly the two teams have put together their knowledge to make this game I am happy to wait 10 days to have a multiplayer (I personally do not like multiplayer) demo waiting for the rest of the game that shall be unveiled little by little in a short time of two or three months.

 

God work, Thanks to all how work on it.

 

Edited November 2, 2013 by senseispcc

[=FI=Nellip42]

_{It was a fair post by Loft and I now understand his development plan. I just wish I knew it before I laid out $90 for the early access.}

_{I knew the game would be limited and rough, but I didn't expect the time restrictions. If I had I wouldn't have a gold founders tag under my avatar it'd be at most silver, if there'd be one at all..}

 

_{I understand the need to get data back from us and that it's most convenient during the week, however why can't the server be left up at other tiimes for people to drift in and see what's there. I'm totally ruled out of the midweek sessions and now they are extended to 2 months it's even worse for me.}

+1

 

Looking forward to BoS, but would not have paid out $90 had I known the limitations of the early access.

[12.DD_Agost]

This is a very professional approach from the devs to ensure we get a quality sim. Learned from the mistakes of past releases they concentrate to do a decent job and let us - the founders after all - test and "supervise" every aspect of it to ensure that the end product is also fit for the highest expectations of a hardcore WWII simmer. The testing is not (at least not for everyone) always fun, but all of us who is interested in it can have his/her hands (if by somewhat minor extent) in this promising game! Not to mention that we could know each other - fellow pilots, devs - better. Maybe the busiest or most active testers could get some kind of gift as appretiation (funny nose arts, pilot model or whatever). I am really glad that the devs chose this path and take some (unearned) heat now as to release a 50% finished product to "patch up later" (CloD).

 

Keep on Devs, you are on the right track!

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Well DCS WW2 had nothing else to show than the already in-game P51D and Fw190D-9 added with some early mocks of the map being made and still people backed it on Kickstarter. None of them is complaining that the game will not be final when access starts etc. So why here it is suddenly such a problem? BoS and DCS WW2 both have known teams behind them so in a way similar situation for both. I am glad for being a Founder, could have wasted my money on something worse than in a genre I love.

 

Furbs put it pretty much spot on.

[Mastermariner]

"For the first 2-3 weeks all aircraft are going to have no weaponry,". Oh yea! I will give up my flare gun, when you pry it from my cold dead hand!  

Master

[Wind]

Furbs = Soothing voice of reason.

 

+1

[ROK-Lonewolf]

Nice Bf.109 F-4 skin. I am really impressed!

 

Bit sad since even though I am founder I can't get F-4 skin (I pre-ordered the game end of October.)

 

 

Anyway I still have some questions that I want to know of.....

 

I am wondering when Bf. 109 will be available in the game.

 

Also is this game will support custom airplane skins like they did in IL-2 1946, and IL-2 CLOD?

 

 

Cheers!

Edited November 2, 2013 by ROK-Lonewolf

[MIThdortim]

Hi,

as someone asked earlier in this thread:

Do you have a bug tracker where we can enter bugs we will discover?

That should be an advantage for the developers and for us test-pilots to see what has been fixed, priorised and so on.

 

In total this sounds like a great approach to include the community in this incredible project!!   

 

Also, please continue to communicate your successes and failures and deploy/update bug-fix often!   That's how software-development works !

 

Can't wait to jump in the plane 

[ACG_Dickie]

Osprey - 'lie' is a strong word to throw around. We are getting early access to the game. It's not full, and that's a shame, but it is still early access. I can see why people are annoyed or disappointed in the news though. I'd been hoping to have more things available earlier, too.

 

Actually it's not,  just look up the definition of 'lie' yourself and you can see that there is nothing incorrect in the language I chose. The post was deleted all the same and I received a PM about that.  Given that I'm a customer who hasn't received anything for my money yet,  and that money has left my account therefore is funding these very forums then I'm even more unhappy now than I was yesterday.  It's not that I expect a full game or anything,  I'm happy with running my very large Air Group in COD and we have plenty to do, it's just I don't like something being implied at the point of exchanging real money and then finding the deal isn't near what you had expected which is what a lot of people have found here.

 

If 777 are unhappy with the response to the point of warning/threatening their own customers of 'consequences' then they should look to themselves and perhaps consider an alternative medium where they can handle customer complaints, like any normal, decent company would.  Out of interest, how exactly would I get a refund?  Does anybody know?

[AnaRasanen]

Now that Standard Edition owners have to suffer the three days a week testing period too the Premium Edition owners should stop complaining about it since the value of their investment didn't decrease after all. So I think everybody should be happy now.

[ACG_Dickie]

Osprey please check your PMs..

 

 

Nothing... WT was already here and whatever promise it had as a true sim got mashed up in it's implementation ... Cliffs of Dover was already here.. and being worked on by TF, with great success I might add.. but Battle of Moscow  was not on the horizon.. it was still in rumor mode with the last mention of it .. as a rumor .. in November of 2012. DCS WWII was not even a thought at that time. So yeah... as far as this project goes..

 

Thanks, I replied.

 

WT doesn't even count does it.  I completely disagree with you about BOM, there was plenty of content and it would've been released months ago (ceterus paribus), we cannot say to what state but I'm pretty sure a lot would've been sorted out in that time.  BOS is 30% ready though.

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

 I am anxious to try crosswind landings and takeoffs.

+1

[DD_Arthur]

Furbs put it pretty much spot on.

 

Yep.  I find the team's roll out plan re-assuring.  They're going to get it right.  That's what counts.  

[TXTwilight]

You did it...

After a longtime lurking around reading every DD you finally got me to pre order the game.

It won´t be much cheaper in the near future and I would have bought the LA 5 and the Focke Wulf anyway so yeah, I´am looking forward for the early acces and the implementations of new stuff. Sounds like  a good plan, so keep ´em coming.

[FlatSpinMan]

Yay. Another for the good guys.

Thanks, I replied.

 

WT doesn't even count does it.  I completely disagree with you about BOM, there was plenty of content and it would've been released months ago (ceterus paribus), we cannot say to what state but I'm pretty sure a lot would've been sorted out in that time.  BOS is 30% ready though.

Yeah, but BOM *wasn't* released. That was kind of the problem with it.

[ACG_Dickie]

You sound pleased.

[FlatSpinMan]

Actually it's not, just look up the definition of 'lie' yourself and you can see that there is nothing incorrect in the language I chose. The post was deleted all the same and I received a PM about that. Given that I'm a customer who hasn't received anything for my money yet, and that money has left my account therefore is funding these very forums then I'm even more unhappy now than I was yesterday. It's not that I expect a full game or anything, I'm happy with running my very large Air Group in COD and we have plenty to do, it's just I don't like something being implied at the point of exchanging real money and then finding the deal isn't near what you had expected which is what a lot of people have found here.

 

If 777 are unhappy with the response to the point of warning/threatening their own customers of 'consequences' then they should look to themselves and perhaps consider an alternative medium where they can handle customer complaints, like any normal, decent company would. Out of interest, how exactly would I get a refund? Does anybody know?

We're all customers who haven't received any thing yet. That's cos the game isn't out yet.

 

As for definitions of the word 'lie', I guess you could argue they 'created a misleading impression' as we all assumed it'd be unrestricted, but really, all they said was that founders would get early access to the game in autumn. That is what is happening, isn't it? That it is different from how we had hoped is not necessarily their fault though, is it?

 

This forum does allow people to complain, but we don't allow people to badmouth a team that does good work and tries to be as open as possible.

 

As for your comment about 'normal' companies and ways to get refunds, have you by any chance thought of contacting customer support?

 

support@1cgs.net

 

 

You sound pleased.

You are reading too much into that comment. I have no antipathy towards any computer game. I was hoping it'd be released. But it wasn't. Then BoS was announced so I started hoping it would be released. And in two weeks, it will be (all going well).

[Szatanshow]

I like the whole idea and no weapons its actual good so we can test without keeling performance of a planes and look around maps and everything

[dburne]

Now that Standard Edition owners have to suffer the three days a week testing period too the Premium Edition owners should stop complaining about it since the value of their investment didn't decrease after all. So I think everybody should be happy now.

 

Why is that? It does not change the fact, that I pre-ordered the Premium Edition and still will not get any access as long as the access remains limited to 3 days during the middle of the week. Now it sounds like this limitation is going to be around 2 months plus or minus, in fact probably many standard edition owners will be able to access early before I even can.

 

The value of my investment, decreased with this limited access announcement. I will look forward to the final product, but no I am not happy at all with my pre-order of this sim.

Edited November 2, 2013 by dburnette

[Foobar]

We all wanted more, the devs too, but just how far do you think a years worth of dev time of a ww2 flight sim will get you? do you think we should have a finished sim by now? im just really confused, do you think the devs have been in Barbados, kicking back, enjoying the sun and girls, watching the millions roll in?

 

They have got around 3000 pre-orders, good news yes? you know how far that goes to pay for the total work that's needed to get this sim done and finished? not nearly enough by a long way...a very long way.

The goal is to make a fantastic world war 2 flight sim that will sell by the bucket loads, the only way that happens is if BOS is a success when its released, the only way that happens is if the devs get it right in the time they have left and the sim is released to great acclaim by the all the flight sim critics, magazines, web sites, us flight sim nuts and you.

 

Word of mouth is everything now in this day and age, bad reviews at launch will kill this sim and any chance of future expansions, everything is geared towards that goal in 6 months time, the devs lives, our amount of early access time, my enjoyment and flight time with BOS.

 

You know what? im right with them, every step of the way, i want the same goal they do, i want a great sim to play for years to come, i want expansions, add-ons, new planes, updates and everything. If Jason or Loft told me tomorrow i couldn't play the early access because he thought it that would help the sims release in 6 months, i would gladly go with out my time with the early build, because i want the goal more than 6 months play time with a alpha, beta or what ever.

 

The same goes for the other world war 2 sim that's being developed, im right with the other guy too, he's getting my full support as well, and the non payed modders of already released sims, i want as many great sims as i can get my grubby hands on, more the merrier.

 

We could have a golden age of flight sims right round the corner, we have been in drought for years and years and years, waiting and waiting, and now we might have 3 sims to play next year, im excited, very excited by what we just might have in just 12 months time.

 

So, come on, you want the same as me right? the same as all us flight sim nut jobs want. So do what you can to help, test, play when you can, report bugs,moral support... what ever... and help support these and any other devs, or modders  trying to give you what you want, what we ALL want....

 

Please.

Well said! Totally right in every aspect.

 

Unfortunately too much text for my sig.

[FlatSpinMan]

This obviously disappoints you, dburnette. Fair enough. Though I'd rather you stayed around with us, you are within your rights to take up the issue with customer support. That'd probably be more effective for you than complaining here on the forums, if you really are dissatisfied.

[dburne]

10-4, consider me silenced.

 

Take care,

[TAiWf]

Some people seem to miss the point here.

Personally, I don't care if the "early access" version will be next to totally unplayable at this stage. This is not the point. The point is how the marketing people for the project went around the DEFINITION of what exactly that "early access" implies... And what's a big win from their side is the fact that you can't actually accuse them of lying... Heck, they could even make more live streaming of the game process and call THIS an "access". Or just post something like "please come to our studio on these and these days, and line up in a queue (and I'm pretty sure we WILL have a virtual "queue", since there are over 3000 people who payed the Premium out there)". Once again, access granted, you are welcome.

 

Lesson learned. I hope this will make customers less trusting to vague formulations of people asking for money from now on. Since recently there are no enthusiasts anymore, only people who will try to talk away as much money off of you as they possibly can, whatever nice motives they will tell you about...

 

As of now, the whole pre-order matter feels more like a lottery. For example, when I pre-ordered ArmA 3, I actually GOT my early access and the retail price went twice to what I'd paid for the early access. So, it was more than worth it. But here... I can't even have a small and crippled offline demonstrator! What's the reason against providing it to us? Instead, we are forced to short online windows on laggy (no pun intended) servers.

And after the sim is out, any new buyers will get it for the same price as I did, thanks to the inflation rate.

Way to go, comrades! That's a great way to treat your "founders"...

 

I would support an enthusiastic simulation developer anytime, but I really don't like being cheated. Even if the cheating is based on abusing the difference between my understanding of terms and the actual vendor's interpretation. This means creating a EULA on every goddam word, and taking everything to court... Do we really live in this kind of world already?

[senseispcc]

Yes, the investment for the premium version was great but the reward is also you have only 10 to 15 days to wait until we can, we few, enjoy to flight in new models of planes, in a great simulation, before anyone with the exception of the creators of this games we should all be happy the one that did pay more to get more and the one how prefer to wait a little longer and pay later to get the same advantages should also be happy to get a finished game.

 

I am sorry to see people not be happy with what they get.

 

I for ones think we get what we have pay for, more than we paid for.  

Edited November 2, 2013 by senseispcc

[GOAT-ACEOFACES]

Word of mouth is everything now in this day and age, bad reviews at launch will kill this sim and any chance of future expansions, everything is geared towards that goal in 6 months time

[FlatSpinMan]

10-4, consider me silenced.

 

Take care,

Is that not a touch dramatic? I'm trying to help you as you seem dissatisfied. You haven't been 'silenced' at all.

 

 

 

 

So, TAIWF, what is the empirical definition of 'early access'?

I shouldn't bother with this, but I'm getting annoyed.

[TAiWf]

So, TAIWF, what is the empirical definition of 'early access'?

I shouldn't bother with this, but I'm getting annoyed.

Firing up the alpha whenever I feel like (when I got one)? At least in an online mode (which will be next to useless anyway).

You have some other definition?

[LLv44_Mprhead]

"Lesson learned. I hope this will make customers less trusting to vague formulations of people asking for money from now on. Since recently there are no enthusiasts anymore, only people who will try to talk away as much money off of you as they possibly can, whatever nice motives they will tell you about...

 

Way to go, comrades! That's a great way to treat your "founders"...

 

I would support an enthusiastic simulation developer anytime, but I really don't like being cheated. Even if the cheating is based on abusing the difference between my understanding of terms and the actual vendor's interpretation. This means creating a EULA on every goddam word, and taking everything to court... Do we really live in this kind of world already?"

 

Apparently you do. I don't. Wake up and smell the coffee. world doesn't rotate around you. All this whining about early access not being suitable for me is really tiresome.