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SharpeXB

BoS Keeps Reassigning joystick numbers

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I had this issue when I tried the Razer Nostromo. It's very much like a Logitech G13. 

No matter what order I would plug in the Joystick USB devices the Nostromo would always reassign itself to JoyID1 and mix up my other controllers.

Even the JoyID tool was unable to reassign the Nostromo.

 

I ditched the Nostromo.

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I had this issue when I tried the Razer Nostromo. It's very much like a Logitech G13. 

No matter what order I would plug in the Joystick USB devices the Nostromo would always reassign itself to JoyID1 and mix up my other controllers.

Even the JoyID tool was unable to reassign the Nostromo.

 

I ditched the Nostromo.

I think the G13 always takes the joy1 spot too since my BoS controllers are 0,2 & 3 and I plugged the G13 in last.

As long as it's consistent, it's not a problem. The G13 is the greatest game controller ever made so I'll tolerate any oddities it has. It has trouble with the "restart" in Windows and I wonder if that might be why restart caused trouble with the other sticks. I don't know if their numbering is dependent on each other.

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I may have found a solution. Based upon what Microsoft Support told me.

 

- First, I created a Restore Point for Windows in case I mess anything up.

 

- Disconnected all USB devices except the Mouse and Keyboard. Shut-down and Start the PC (I'm avoiding ever using Restart)

 

- Go to Device Manager, uninstall the Universal Serial bus controllers drivers from the Device Manager and check.

Follow the steps to uninstall the drivers:

 

1. Right click on Start button and click on Device Manager.

2. Search for Universal Serial bus controllers driver and expand it.

3. Right click the device, and click Uninstall. (I repeated this for almost every device under this heading, especially what looked like Hubs and the Asus and Intel motherboard, if I accidentally deactivated the mouse I just powered off the PC and started up again to reactivate it)

4. Restart the computer.

5. Right click your computer name in Device Manager and click Scan for hardware changes. Device manager scans your system and automatically reinstalls your device.

 

- Reconnected the USB hub and the 3 CH Controllers plus the Logitech G13 to it. I noted the order in the USB Game Controllers list in Windows. This list doesn't reflect the order they were connected. I don't know if it's supposed to. I connected them in the reverse order of the numbers I want. I don't know if this matters.

 

- Calibrate the CH controllers in CH Control Manager, in the same order as connected (don't know if that matters either)

 

- Shut-down the PC and Start

 

- Check the controller order in Windows USB Game Controllers. Now their order matches what I need. Don't know why this changed from what I saw after they were first connected. It still doesn't reflect the connection order. But it's actually correct now. The joy#s will be 0,1,2,3 from the top of the list going down.

 

- Testing the controllers in BoS. They're all correct.

 

So far the joy# assignments have held for five Shut-downs/Starts. Hopefully this lasts.

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So far the joy# assignments have held for five Shut-downs/Starts. Hopefully this lasts.

Great to hear you found a solution. Hopefully it will permanently fix the problem and others should benefit from your efforts.

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Nope. It's busted again

I'm not sure why, it lasted through about 10 shut downs, than all I did was open "devices and printers" for some other reason and the joy#s reset.

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Windows arranges the USB devices based on VendorID and ProductID. I don't have Windows 10 but I can only assume they did not change this. (There would be no reason to)

 

Does the JoyID utility fix your problem, even for a short time? If it does, that might be the easiest way to move forward. Write a batch file to change the joyID's when you need to.

Not the best solution, but it should work.

 

Alternatively if your feeling frisky, you can dig a little deeper and use ControllerRemap Utility, which in a nutshell will allow you to fiddle with the vendorID's and setup the controllers in the order you like.

The vendorID is just a 16-bit hexadecimal string, so it can be changed pretty easily with the program. Or you can manually edit the xml files yourself.

 

https://controllerremapgui.codeplex.com/

 

The link is to the GUI addon for the software, the link to main software is also on that page.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, I got rid of the offending controller, so I never had to manually edit the vendorID. But it can be done with that software.

 

Good luck.

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Windows arranges the USB devices based on VendorID and ProductID. I don't have Windows 10 but I can only assume they did not change this. (There would be no reason to)

 

Does the JoyID utility fix your problem, even for a short time? If it does, that might be the easiest way to move forward. Write a batch file to change the joyID's when you need to.

Not the best solution, but it should work.

 

Alternatively if your feeling frisky, you can dig a little deeper and use ControllerRemap Utility, which in a nutshell will allow you to fiddle with the vendorID's and setup the controllers in the order you like.

The vendorID is just a 16-bit hexadecimal string, so it can be changed pretty easily with the program. Or you can manually edit the xml files yourself.

 

https://controllerremapgui.codeplex.com/

 

The link is to the GUI addon for the software, the link to main software is also on that page.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, I got rid of the offending controller, so I never had to manually edit the vendorID. But it can be done with that software.

 

Good luck.

The issue here isn't really the number assigned to the joystick but the fact that it changes when the PC is restarted. If the arrangement of the controllers on that list for USB game controllers is based upon a fixed number like this Vendor ID, why do they keep reordering themselves? If the Vendor or ProductID determines the joy# then that number should always be the same if the same 4 controllers are plugged in regardless of the order they were connected.

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Two controllers demanding to be JoyID1 or something? Windows doesn't know how to deal with it? No idea?

You could look at the files and see what each controller is trying to assign.

 

I just thought it might help.  :ph34r:

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Do you have "fast start" and hibernation enabled on your Win 10 system? From what I understand when you have "fast start" enabled Win 10 saves lots of pertinent data to the hibernation file so after shutting down, and then when you restart, it uses the saved data to get your system up and running fast. I wonder if maybe w/o "fast start" enabled the system re-assigns the joy numbers on boot-up? That's one reason a "restart" takes longer as it ignores the hibernation data.

Edited by Gramps

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Windows arranges the USB devices based on VendorID and ProductID. I don't have Windows 10 but I can only assume they did not change this. (There would be no reason to)

 

 

I think that Ms did some change in Win10, perhaps XBox related.

 

My controllers have VID/PID 0001/0001 (custom made stick controller) and 231d/011d (VKB Tiny BoX), when I try Win10 they was installed in inverted order relative do Win 7, the joystick, previous Joy0, became Joy1.

 

The only thing "suspect" is that two USB ports use the same VID/PID of joystick (0001/0001).  :huh:

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Two controllers demanding to be JoyID1 or something? Windows doesn't know how to deal with it? No idea?

You could look at the files and see what each controller is trying to assign.

 

I just thought it might help.  :ph34r:

No two devices will have the same number. But they will change when the PC is restarted.

Do you have "fast start" and hibernation enabled on your Win 10 system?

I don't know. How do I find this setting?

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Fingers crossed!

 

Nope it didn't work. That was the most logical explanation so far but there must be another reason somewhere. thanks anyways

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Try this: Boot-up and get the assignments set w/fast start off. Once done go back and turn fast-start and hibernate on (you can kill hibernate after you restart). This is how mine is configured. When you stop the hibernate do it in the advance power setting location:

 

post-20713-0-07813100-1445297458_thumb.png

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Try this: Boot-up and get the assignments set w/fast start off. Once done go back and turn fast-start and hibernate on (you can kill hibernate after you restart). This is how mine is configured. When you stop the hibernate do it in the advance power setting location:

 

attachicon.gifCapture.PNG

 

SOLVED!

 

I did the above but left hibernate checked on since I couldn't find that Power Options screen, don't know if that matters.

Did 21 shut downs and start ups and it kept the device order every time.

 

THANK YOU! :salute:

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Great! Hibernate is similar to "sleep mode" but it saves data that is in ram, and any running programs, to a hibernate file and then your system shuts down. It can be set to run automatically, or never, in the pic section I provided. To get to it open control panel, select power options, click "change plan settings" for your currently selected plan, then click "Change advanced power settings". Some people do not like to let their systems hibernate automatically.

 

I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but, if things are working fine it may be best to leave it alone.

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Well it just lost the settings again but I think repeating the process put them back in place.

 

Hopefully 1CGS can fix the menu system before more people have this problem.

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Dang! I really can't think of anything else at this point.

Well at least it's possible for me to fix it rather than the whole thing just being broken.

What's happening I suppose is for some reason if there's a hiccup when the PC starts, the joystick orders aren't read and they get scrambled. Then Fast Start remembers that and keeps repeating it. So turn off Fast Start and capture the correct setting again. Something like that?

 

Attempting to analyze this is like the explanation of why the Hindenburg exploded.

Did it happen because of a bomb? Or pilot error? Or a broken cable? The weather?

No.

It exploded because it was full of hydrogen!

 

So the problem here is not some technical feature of Windows.

The menu system in the game is just not designed correctly. That's the real problem.

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I have had this problem on a windows 8.1 system since I started using it in May of this year. I have followed the suggestions on the ch hanger forum and this one.

 

I tried the most recent suggestions about fast boot.

 

After several reboots, the controller ids get scrambled again.

 

I am happy to see that 1CGS is looking at the issue.

 

I am certain it is a windows issue in 10 and 8.1. Any game that recognizes controllers based on the ID number assigned by windows can be affected.

 

What is surprising to me is that more users are not effected by this problem.

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Since I have not been able to solve the problem, I put the system into sleep mode unless the system is installing an update.

 

The ids do not change when my system comes out of sleep mode.

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suggestions on the ch hanger

 

Curiously is that most of cases involve CH joy...

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Curiously is that most of cases involve CH joy...

Well except I was able to run these same controllers for five years without this problem in Vista and 7. Suddenly with Windows 10 it happens. It could also have been triggered by just reinstalling 7

 

Make a VKB F-16 or A-10 style HOTAS and I'll ditch CH in an instant! :-D (that VKB stuff looks awesome)

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 I used the same controllers with vista for several years without a problem.

 

I also have a logitech racing wheel on my system which also gets shuffled on reboot.

 

New system with 8.1 which is very similar to windows 10 has the problem.

 

Post in ch hanger says that running the ch products controllers without control manager solved the problem.

 

I have not tried that because I use control manager to calibrate the controllers.

 

It is possible that control manager has problems with windows 8 and 10

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This is not just an IL2 BOS problem.

 

I have the problem with IL2 CLOD and every game that recognizes controllers based on their id number in windows.

 

DCS recognizes the controller independent of the windows id or order in the windows game controller tab and is unaffected by the reshuffling on reboot.

 

When assigning controllers in DCS, the game identifies them by the name of teh controller and does so regardless of the order in windows

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I used the same controllers with vista for several years without a problem.

 

I also have a logitech racing wheel on my system which also gets shuffled on reboot.

 

New system with 8.1 which is very similar to windows 10 has the problem.

 

Post in ch hanger says that running the ch products controllers without control manager solved the problem.

 

I have not tried that because I use control manager to calibrate the controllers.

 

It is possible that control manager has problems with windows 8 and 10

Same as me

I use a Logitech controller

And I need Control Manager to calibrate. I suppose uninstalling and reinstalling CM didn't help?

DCS recognizes the controller independent of the windows id or order in the windows game controller tab and is unaffected by the reshuffling on reboot.

 

ARMA and X-Plane are the same way. We should have a system like this for BoS Edited by SharpeXB

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that would solve the problem.

 

Since the software is being worked on and BOM is already being sold, now is the time for the developer to address this in the game code.

 

Since this problem existed for some users through windows 8 and control manager has not been updated, fixing this in game is the best and probably simplest solution.

 

I am very surprised that we don't hear about this issue from many more users

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Since the software is being worked on and BOM is already being sold, now is the time for the developer to address this in the game code.

they did respond that they're considering the request.

 

I'm surprised there aren't more people with this problem either. It's possible many people don't understand they need CM or don't use it.

If it really was related to CH every user would be affected. Have you contacted CH support? I just sent them a message.

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Yes and spoke to tech support 

 

First told me they were unaware of the problem.

 

Said that control manager is optional.

 

Then sent me the following emailto my computer manufacturer:

 

"Sadly, we have no control over the Windows boot sequence since our USB products are plug and play devices.  However, I have heard of a workaround within the optional Control Manager software we offer, and received feedback from users that remedied the problem by installing the Control Manager and creating a profile or a map."

 

CH  tech support had told me that the control manager map would not fix the problem.

 

The email to the computer manufacturer was sent after I suggested a CM map as a workaround

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 It's possible many people don't understand they need CM or don't use it.

 

 

You say that people need this software (CM) for joy calibration - instead use Windows calibration (limited) or DView, DXweak2. OK.

 

But why they need this soft' running in background after do this calibration, if they dont use this as keypmapper (that "press the joy button to press keys to do something in games" instead map the button to do this something in games (the called DirectX mode), what are considered useful for some, but not for all)?

 

If the soft was closed - after calibration - don't stop to interfere in USB boot?

Edited by Sokol1

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You say that people need this software (CM) for joy calibration - instead use Windows calibration (limited) or DView, DXweak2. OK.

 

But why they need this soft' running in background after do this calibration, if they dont use this as keypmapper (that "press the joy button to press keys to do something in games" instead map the button to do this something in games (the called DirectX mode), what are considered useful for some, but not for all)?

 

If the soft was closed - after calibration - don't stop to interfere in USB boot?

Right. The CH Manager is needed to calibrate the controllers. They don't calibrate through Windows. It's also useful for doing things like reversing the axis inputs which is really handy.

 

It doesn't have to actually be launched every time you use the controllers, it must run in the background.

 

There is this option in CH Manager called "Mapped Mode" which makes all your controllers a single device. If that really is confirmed to work as a solution I'd try it. But it's pretty complicated to get working.

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I am very surprised that we don't hear about this issue from many more users

Actually it's all over the CH forums. I think many people just don't know why things aren't working.

 

And I got the same reply from CH but sent back more info and links. They don't seem to understand how this is broken yet either.

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I used the same controllers with vista for several years without a problem.

 

I also have a logitech racing wheel on my system which also gets shuffled on reboot.

 

New system with 8.1 which is very similar to windows 10 has the problem.

 

Post in ch hanger says that running the ch products controllers without control manager solved the problem.

 

I have not tried that because I use control manager to calibrate the controllers.

 

It is possible that control manager has problems with windows 8 and 10

Have you tried doing the Mapped Mode in CH which creates a single joystick from all your devices?

You're in the same situation I am in that you've got another non-CH device.

I hadn't tried this Mapped Mode yet because

First, it's complicated. It's easier to just keep restarting my machine till it gets the order set right. That fast start fix works most of the time too

Second, I wonder if Windows would still scramble the two devices, obviously if CH are your only controllers then the Mapped Mode would work.

If this thing is really caused by CM and not Windows, maybe Mapped Mode is the solution.

If I have the time and patience I might try it. The 8 axis limit isn't a problem because all my gear has only 8 axis anyways. The 32 button limit can be overcome by just keyboard-emulating some commands I figure. Maybe that's not correct? I don't know.

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Right. The CH Manager is needed to calibrate the controllers. They don't calibrate through Windows. It's also useful for doing things like reversing the axis inputs which is really handy.

 

It doesn't have to actually be launched every time you use the controllers, it must run in the background.

 

There is this option in CH Manager called "Mapped Mode" which makes all your controllers a single device. If that really is confirmed to work as a solution I'd try it. But it's pretty complicated to get working.

 

 

Well, I use CH stick/pedal only briefly ~1 mount, and use the Windows calibration without problem, test too the Mannager calibration.

 

I think this soft (Mannager) apply filters to deal with pot' spikes, and as in this stick I fit new pot's, no issue with Windows calibration.

 

CH pot' have fame to be "stellar", but using this pot in high resolution controller - BU0836 12 bits (CH is only 8 bits), the result is less than "stellar" under DView...  :)

 

Back to the matter: In this Ken Ghost tutorial see simple combine the joy/throttle/pedal as 1 device.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3124081/Control_Manager_-_How_Do_I?#Post3124081

 

After, to avoid remap buttons in games use Notepad++ an remap references for Joy2, Joy3, to Joy1. Maybe (!) work.  :biggrin:

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Well, i just came back to BoS after a half-year break. Before i left, i had that same problem with switching ID`s (Win8.1, Saitek Pedals, X52 Throttle, MSFFB2 and a Logitech Gamepad). I guess there are a lot more people around suffering from that problem than we can see. Perhaps some just dump the game or take a break like me (although my reason had nothing to do with BoS..), or just simply reassign everything when it happens :wacko:

I am really glad to hear that the Dev`s are looking into it!

After reading through this thread, i suspect my gamepad to be the culprit, and will check later if removing it will solve this, as well as when it comes to the wild shuddering of my trusted MSFFB2.

 

 

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Received this from CH today. They're getting warm. I told him to keep trying and watch it break again. I already tried this myself.

If it was this simple to fix we wouldn't be having any problems.

 

"We did some testing today with our engineers and confirmed that the Control Manager has nothing to do with this issue.

 

We plugged in 3 different units and confirmed that the order matched the order that they were attached, and once rebooted we confirmed that Windows 8 and 10 did in fact change the order in the Game Controllers menu.

 

However, once the computer has been rebooted once, the order sequence that Windows generated stays the same even after rebooting multiple times.

 

So, the steps would be to plug the units in, reboot, and then assign the products. I recommend trying this yourself to see if it helps."

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