PWCG for BOS Discussion

[Koziolek]

On 10/31/2022 at 11:14 AM, Patricks said:

Just saw yet another great realism enhancer from PWCG. In IL-2 when I exited the mission I had (rightfully) shown 3 fighters down. In PWCG debrief I claimed 3, but one was refused! Just like it may have been in real life... great work Pat.

Nope, in real life pilots had confirmed planes the did not shoot down. That's why the real number is 30-40% of confimed victories

[Patricks]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:06 PM, Koziolek said:

Nope, in real life pilots had confirmed planes the did not shoot down. That's why the real number is 30-40% of confimed victories

 

I guess you agree with me, it adds to the realism, correct? I see 14.1.1 is out, better update!

[PatrickAWlson]

41 minutes ago, Patricks said:

 

I guess you agree with me, it adds to the realism, correct? I see 14.1.1 is out, better update!

 

PWCG claims resolution changes with the capabilities afforded me in the logs.  Earlier, damage records were available only for the player.  At some point they became available for all aircraft.  Every time 1C changes things I have to rewrite code and AAR is one of the most complex sections of c ode in PWCG.  Lots of cascading causes and effects.

 

Recently I did a change where a victory is only awarded if the plane is damaged by a pilot.  There is another rule that says aircraft shot down by the player but not claimed by the player are given to flight mates.  PWCG should not be granting planes that were nowhere near the player's flight to player flight mates.

 

Another point: was the victory given to a member of the players squadron in the mission or to a squadron member that did not fly the mission?  All AI pilots not in the mission, including those in the in the player squadron, are given virtual missions.  That means that they may score a victory, become a casualty, etc.  Too many dynamic campaigns resolve only the events in the mission, with time standing still elsewhere.  PWCG has very significant out of mission logic that makes the world go around for all of the pilots not in the mission.

[Patricks]

Thanks Pat, I am quite happy with the way you set this up. One question on the PWCG skins, I have all 16 skin packs (for GB) and all 7 for FC installed, yet the "Display Missing" tells me that 549 Skins are missing? Not quite sure what to make of this. I did not download/install the "Blank" skins, assumed these were for painting your own plane, is that incorrect?

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Patricks

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, Patricks said:

Thanks Pat, I am quite happy with the way you set this up. One question on the PWCG skins, I have all 16 skin packs (for GB) and all 7 for FC installed, yet the "Display Missing" tells me that 549 Skins are missing? Not quite sure what to make of this. I did not download/install the "Blank" skins, assumed these were for painting your own plane, is that incorrect?

 

 

Do you have the blank skin packs?  Those are the ones primarily in use in BoS.  I have mostly disabled the use of the 16 original BoS skins in the skin packs.  Per those 16 skin packs - I have it on the to do list to review them and bring back the best ones that really fit.  Stuff takes time.

 

For FC I have not even updated the download from version 13.  Lots of work to do on that front with the new map and it is going to take a couple of months to get there.  First I want to stabilize BoS for Normandy.

[Patricks]

LOL, of course the Blanks are the only ones I DIDN'T download/install!!  Thanks Pat.

[Patricks]

Hmmm, my Hurricane has a Russian skin again, must have overwritten something? I remember a fix early on, anyone?

 

[Stonehouse]

3 hours ago, Patricks said:

Hmmm, my Hurricane has a Russian skin again, must have overwritten something? I remember a fix early on, anyone?

 

My guess is that for some reason it isn't finding a skin so gives you the default skin which is the VVS one. Perhaps open the mission file in notepad++ and see which skin is assigned (I think the editor will perhaps show you no skin chosen but check that too) and then start looking to see why the assigned skin is not being found.

[Patricks]

@Stonehouse thanks, I assume you mean the .mission file, correct? 651034 lines! Found the "Skin=" line, shows "Skin = "hurricanemkii\hurricanemkii_skin_07.dds";". I've attached what I have in the /Skins/HurricaneMkII folder, this file is absent. This campaign was started back during the Normandy Alpha/Beta PWCG releases, starting to think it would be better to start over with a new campaign. 

[Stonehouse]

Ok so that skin is a stock skin and is a VVS skin, hurricanemkii_skin_07.dds as below, the ones you list in your post are custom skins:

 

 

Not sure if there is a typo causing grief or skin selection has a bug.  There is a hurricanemkii_blank_07.dds skin as below. I've looked at the RAF squadron jsons for what I believe are the Hurri 2 squadrons and cannot see any issue as well as looking at the configured skins for the Hurricane II and also cannot see any obvious problem. Which squadron are you in and what is the date of your mission?

 

At present it seems like there is a bug in the PWCG code, so you need to zip up your campaign and mission and pass it to Pat to debug.

<edit> you did follow the recommended method for updating PWCG yeah? ie delete all content except user folder from PWCGBos folder and download/copy the zip of the new version to your Il2 folder and do an unzip here so you end up with everything new in PWCGBos except for your user folder.

 

 

Looking a bit harder..........something seems odd with 326 Free French squadron. The squadron dump tool is listing this as a Hurri 2 (prior to 1 June 1943) and Spitfire squadron (post 1 June 1943) which becomes 341 squadron 1 mar 1943 as well as 326 sqd on the same date. Checking the json it does not get rebadged and never used Hurri 2's. It does have a service Id of 10105 (which I believe is french) but has a nationality of Britain.  Probably the squadron dump tool needs an update.

Might be a clue for Pat anyway but I think it is going to have to wait for him to look through the logic and your campaign and mission.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Patricks]

Yes, did a clean install/extract of PWCG 14.1.2 with all prior files/folders deleted (except "User" folder). The skins I show are everything in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\1C Game Studios\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\data\graphics\Skins\HurricaneMkII" folder, is there somewhere else I should be looking? I have downloaded and installed all of the "Blank" skins from the PWCG download page, but none are for British planes.. and no sign of hurricanemkii_skin_07.dds

[Stonehouse]

4 minutes ago, Patricks said:

Yes, did a clean install/extract of PWCG 14.1.2 with all prior files/folders deleted (except "User" folder). The skins I show are everything in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\1C Game Studios\IL-2 Sturmovik Great Battles\data\graphics\Skins\HurricaneMkII" folder, is there somewhere else I should be looking? I have downloaded and installed all of the "Blank" skins from the PWCG download page, but none are for British planes.. and no sign of hurricanemkii_skin_07.dds

Sorry I wasn't clear. It's a stock skin so one of the official game skins and can be found in one of the gtp files. The official skins do not appear in the skins folder so you won't see it. I think Pat mostly uses stock skins for RAF aircraft.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Stonehouse

[Patricks]

Got it, thank you. Deleted old BoB Campaign, will see how a fresh campaign goes and see what happens..

 

Edit: I see the .mission file for my new campaign (56th out of Newchurch 1-6-41) now specifies "Skin = "hurricanemkii\hurricanemkii_blank_03.dds";", will go in and see what I get.. and all is well! Correct (RAF) skin, great mission over Calais where my 20mm's shredded 4 HE-111's, got credit for 3, good start to the new campaign! 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Patricks

[Stonehouse]

Hmmm 20mm much better than 303s. I actually think that there is a problem with PWCG allowing them before early 1942 however. The MkIIC.s were still in trials in June 1941. So really in June 41 we should be using the 8x303 or 12x303 version I believe.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Stonehouse
typo

[Mtnbiker1998]

34 minutes ago, Stonehouse said:

Hmmm 20mm much better than 303s. I actually that there is a problem with PWCG allowing them before early 1942 however. The MkIIC.s were still in trials in June 1941. So really in June 41 we should be using the 8x303 or 12x303 version I believe.

I've often wondered if it would ever be possible for modifications to be inventoried in a similar system to aircraft, showing up over time and slowly in greater numbers. would be really cool to have say, only a handful of Malcom hoods for your P-51B squadron, or gyro gunsights, or 20mm Hispanos for your Hurricanes!

[Przemro]

I was wondering, since recent stream from devs they claimed that they are looking for people who wants to create something etc. I guess that was mainly about creation of planes or stuff like that. But did You Pat consider to reach out to devs now after that claim. Adding Your generator or including it in game would be amazing, since this kind of tool - carrer mode in coop (or even pvp), is great for keeping multiplayer alive. Where for pvp there is quite a lot servers, for coop there is very few.

Also getting acces to some more help with AI or other stuff would open possibilites. For me it could be part of game as seperate app, same as viewer for skins.

[kaizerhund4]

1941? started my campaign and thought i would begin on moscow map, does it now only show normandy when creating missions? probably have to select map myself...

[PatrickAWlson]

5 hours ago, kaizerhund4 said:

1941? started my campaign and thought i would begin on moscow map, does it now only show normandy when creating missions? probably have to select map myself...

 

Mosco starts Oct 1941.  Normandy starts June 1941.

14 hours ago, Przemro said:

I was wondering, since recent stream from devs they claimed that they are looking for people who wants to create something etc. I guess that was mainly about creation of planes or stuff like that. But did You Pat consider to reach out to devs now after that claim. Adding Your generator or including it in game would be amazing, since this kind of tool - carrer mode in coop (or even pvp), is great for keeping multiplayer alive. Where for pvp there is quite a lot servers, for coop there is very few.

Also getting acces to some more help with AI or other stuff would open possibilites. For me it could be part of game as seperate app, same as viewer for skins.

 

As far as I am aware, not going to happen.  The developers have other things on their hands and are not interested in doing a deeper integration.  PWCG is written in Java where the game is written in C++.  PWCG has no network code on purpose. 

 

In RoF the development team wrote a hook for PWCG that allowed going back and forth.  They were still two different programs but each could invoke the other with command line arguments.  It worked but it was a pain to maintain.  Apparently no appetite for that sort of thing with BoS.

 

On 11/26/2022 at 6:36 PM, Stonehouse said:

Hmmm 20mm much better than 303s. I actually think that there is a problem with PWCG allowing them before early 1942 however. The MkIIC.s were still in trials in June 1941. So really in June 41 we should be using the 8x303 or 12x303 version I believe.

 

I noticed the same, which is why I fly Hurricanes for the faux BoB.  There is no option for a 303 armed Spitfire that I am aware of.

[Stonehouse]

2 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I noticed the same, which is why I fly Hurricanes for the faux BoB.  There is no option for a 303 armed Spitfire that I am aware of.

 

Not sure if there are some wires getting crossed, but I was actually talking about Hurricanes not Spitfires when I was saying we really should not have cannon armed Hurricanes in 1941. I think it came up before in the beta test but you were probably too busy with bigger issues so it slipped through the cracks. It still is only a minor issue that can be fixed when you have time to dig around and find out why a date compare isn't excluding 20mm cannons from available modifications when it should. 

[Patricks]

3 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

 

Not sure if there are some wires getting crossed, but I was actually talking about Hurricanes not Spitfires when I was saying we really should not have cannon armed Hurricanes in 1941. I think it came up before in the beta test but you were probably too busy with bigger issues so it slipped through the cracks. It still is only a minor issue that can be fixed when you have time to dig around and find out why a date compare isn't excluding 20mm cannons from available modifications when it should. 

 

Yes, as it stands now ALL weapons are available for the Hurri II, I just call myself a prototype pilot with my 20mm...  

[PatrickAWlson]

5 hours ago, Stonehouse said:

 

Not sure if there are some wires getting crossed, but I was actually talking about Hurricanes not Spitfires when I was saying we really should not have cannon armed Hurricanes in 1941. I think it came up before in the beta test but you were probably too busy with bigger issues so it slipped through the cracks. It still is only a minor issue that can be fixed when you have time to dig around and find out why a date compare isn't excluding 20mm cannons from available modifications when it should. 

 

My bad, I thought you were talking about Spitfires for some reason.  I have the Hispano intro date as Jan 1 1942.  PWCG will not assign them before that time.  They might still be available in the drop down but that is an explicit user action to select them. 

 

I do not yet have a connection between the mods available in the drop down and the dates applied at initial generation.  It is more complicated than just having one universal date associated with the equipment because different services might use the same plane but have different equipment availability.  The logic is convoluted enough that I keep it in code and not in data files.

Edited November 28, 2022 by PatrickAWlson

[kaizerhund4]

why is normandy map small and mission is created right on the border of the no fly zone, sometimes the approach is in the no fly zone, is there a fix in next update?

[PatrickAWlson]

53 minutes ago, kaizerhund4 said:

why is normandy map small and mission is created right on the border of the no fly zone, sometimes the approach is in the no fly zone, is there a fix in next update?

 

You have already posted this in a separate thread.  I answered.

[kaizerhund4]

yes and i believe you answered why in 1941 we start off with the normandy map....i searched and could not find the same question asked on why the normandy map is small and created next the no fly zone, maybe tech issue with my computer not posting it

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

I am not sure what should I target in airfield attack missions. After generating several missions and testing, I have found that there are usually no aircraft on the target airfield. The buildings are indestructible, even the vehicles on the airfield are indestructible. The only thing that can be hit were the AAA positions. How should I deal with airfield attack missions - target runways or what else? I have my ground density set to HIGH and FLAK to MEDIUM. (I am attaching a short dunkirk attack mission, where there is nothing on the airfield except AAA that can be destroyed).

PWCG_AF_ATTACK.ZIP

Edited December 2, 2022 by Rudolph

[Deicide]

 

I haven't read the previous posts before mine. But I'm sure others have also seen this happen while landing. Random Jeeps and Trucks on the runway, No big deal I can land around them and it makes for some interesting bits at the end if you don't see them at first haha but I did want to bring it to your attention. As always you're the best.

[Patricks]

Yes, it's been mentioned and some adjustments have been made to make it much better, but still good to be familiar with your airstrip, I tore my gear off once on a AAA emplacement from my neglecting to do so..

[kaizerhund4]

i apologize i forgot i posted in a different way instead on this platform like i did repeating myself a few days ago, thanks

[kaizerhund4]

also i realized that my 3rd 4th and 5th missions there has been no opposition (planes) anywhere to be found, checked the activity section and for the royal airforce it showed 1 hurricane and other nix. i figured traditionally with ur program the lost of planes effects how many planes are left to fly with and against you, which i like that reality, although i think not at the start of an campaign, any thoughts?

[KittenMitts]

Hey Pat, just getting into IL-2 and I've found your campaign to be exactly what I've been looking for across numerous sims. So thank you.

 

I'm in ~ February 1942 in Moscow on my first campaign, I hope you don't mind me asking some potentially noobish questions.

 

1. Could you clarify what the "structure" setting in simple config does?

 

2. I saw on a video tutorial you linked that there used to be a setting controlling the number of enemy flights coded to interact with the player. I don't see that in the current version, has that function been reworked? Mostly just curious, so far I enjoy the current balance.

 

3.  As the map transitions to Stalingrad and just progresses in general, is there a natural plane progression in place? Or should I manually request new equipment at a time of my choosing?

 

Thanks once again, I can't wait to fly another mission

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, KittenMitts said:

Hey Pat, just getting into IL-2 and I've found your campaign to be exactly what I've been looking for across numerous sims. So thank you.

 

I'm in ~ February 1942 in Moscow on my first campaign, I hope you don't mind me asking some potentially noobish questions.

 

1. Could you clarify what the "structure" setting in simple config does?

 

2. I saw on a video tutorial you linked that there used to be a setting controlling the number of enemy flights coded to interact with the player. I don't see that in the current version, has that function been reworked? Mostly just curious, so far I enjoy the current balance.

 

3.  As the map transitions to Stalingrad and just progresses in general, is there a natural plane progression in place? Or should I manually request new equipment at a time of my choosing?

 

Thanks once again, I can't wait to fly another mission

 

Structure tells PWCG how many structures to put on the map.  The higher the level the more structures PWCG will add.  What to choose depends on what your computer can handle.

 

Simple config air activity controls the number of flights.  For finer control you can try playing with advanced configs.  Most of the fine grain controls are under "Mission Limits".

 

Plane progression is handled internally.  Squadrons are assigned "arch types" like me109.  Each type of Me109 has a production begin, production end and withdrawal date.  As newer types become available they make their way to the depot and then to squadrons.  

[Patricks]

Is there a way to limit (or eliminate) the creation of night missions, especially in FC?

All I see are the stars and my Tach (in an Se5a with light on), totally black and usually deadly.. I know I can Scrub and mission, just seeing if it's a setting I can change.

[JonRedcorn]

Quick question, I am starting earliest US air force career, but the only options for fighter aircraft are the p-47d-22 and the p-38, I figured I'd be able to fly either the p-47c or the p-51b pretty early. I see you can hop in the p-51b by the end of the 1943, but figured the p-47c would be offered earlier. It seems to not be offered at all. I do not know exactly when all these planes went into service but just curious whats up with that.

 

As always thanks pat for your fantastic work making the BEST third party app for this game. Makes the default career mode look like a joke. Wish they could implement your missions into the default game, real shame.

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, Patricks said:

Is there a way to limit (or eliminate) the creation of night missions, especially in FC?

All I see are the stars and my Tach (in an Se5a with light on), totally black and usually deadly.. I know I can Scrub and mission, just seeing if it's a setting I can change.

 

Any mission can be scrubbed at any time during creation.  It can even be scrubbed after creation by pressing mission, which reloads the active mission, then scrub, then create a new mission.  I know some people object to scrubbing a mission but it's there for a reason.

  

Time can also be set in the waypoint management  page of mission creation.  However, it looks like I limit time settings based on whether a mission is day or night.  Still, if you have a 7 AM or 6 PM mission you might want to move the time to prevent flying in the dark.

[JonRedcorn]

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Any mission can be scrubbed at any time during creation.  It can even be scrubbed after creation by pressing mission, which reloads the active mission, then scrub, then create a new mission.  I know some people object to scrubbing a mission but it's there for a reason.

  

Time can also be set in the waypoint management  page of mission creation.  However, it looks like I limit time settings based on whether a mission is day or night.  Still, if you have a 7 AM or 6 PM mission you might want to move the time to prevent flying in the dark.

Don't wanna bug ya but did you see my question? Just making sure it didnt get lost in the sauce.

Edited December 10, 2022 by JonRedcorn

[Mtnbiker1998]

3 minutes ago, JonRedcorn said:

Don't wanna bug ya but did you see my question? Just making sure it didnt get lost in the sauce.

The P-47c isn't in the game, amd late 1943 is pretty much right for the P-51B entering service. Not really much else Pat can do there with the planes we have available

[PatrickAWlson]

On 12/3/2022 at 7:36 AM, Deicide said:

 

I haven't read the previous posts before mine. But I'm sure others have also seen this happen while landing. Random Jeeps and Trucks on the runway, No big deal I can land around them and it makes for some interesting bits at the end if you don't see them at first haha but I did want to bring it to your attention. As always you're the best.

 

I wrote some code to prevent that - obviously not good enough.  I'll give mission post processing a go to try to clean up any ground objects on the runway.

12 hours ago, JonRedcorn said:

Quick question, I am starting earliest US air force career, but the only options for fighter aircraft are the p-47d-22 and the p-38, I figured I'd be able to fly either the p-47c or the p-51b pretty early. I see you can hop in the p-51b by the end of the 1943, but figured the p-47c would be offered earlier. It seems to not be offered at all. I do not know exactly when all these planes went into service but just curious whats up with that.

 

As always thanks pat for your fantastic work making the BEST third party app for this game. Makes the default career mode look like a joke. Wish they could implement your missions into the default game, real shame.

 

 

As stated by @Mtnbiker1998 I can only use planes that are in the game.  There is a lot of that in PWCG.  Ju87-D where the B should be used.  Late LaGGs where an early on should be.  Plenty of other examples as well.  In general, if as plane is not too good or too bad for a time period I will consider using it as a substitute.  The P-47 is not that hard to bring down with an FW190-A5, the LaGG isn't that hard to bring down with a Me109F, the Ju87D isn't that hard to bring down with anything, so I use them earlier than they really appeared in lieu of using nothing at all and leaving a hole. 

[Patricks]

17 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Any mission can be scrubbed at any time during creation.  It can even be scrubbed after creation by pressing mission, which reloads the active mission, then scrub, then create a new mission.  I know some people object to scrubbing a mission but it's there for a reason.

  

Time can also be set in the waypoint management  page of mission creation.  However, it looks like I limit time settings based on whether a mission is day or night.  Still, if you have a 7 AM or 6 PM mission you might want to move the time to prevent flying in the dark.

 

Thanks Pat, looks like only the late night/early morning missions ~21:00-03:00 need to be scrubbed (for me), the rest on the borderline can be easily changed in the Waypoints screen as you described. I have also set the "Realistic weather" to 0, not sure if this will eliminate clouds but until some logic genius at 1C figures out how to blind the AI inside heavy clouds I will either not use them or stay OUT of them in a SP game/campaign. LOVE the idea of realistic clouds in MP, greatly adds to the immersion/realism... just no fun if i'm the only one that can't see. Also have to look, but I may be able to turn clouds off in graphics settings but not sure, know for sure I can set quality..

Edited December 11, 2022 by Patricks

[Gil57]

Hello Patrick Wilson,

You did a great job with your software, thanks a lot for that  

 

I have a question as I want to do a cooperative campaign with friends of mine on Normandy map, within 'free french' service..

I was surprised to find only one squadron, the 326sqn as free french. This squadron, which was the french GC II/7, did only on the mediterranean and south of France areas at that time.

I was wondering if it could be possible to replace it by other ones:

340sqn 'Ile de France' - code GW -  (Spitfire) operated on the Channel

341sqn 'Alsace' - code NL -  (Spitfire) operated on the Channel

 

you can even have the 342sqn 'Lorraine' which used te A20 bomber - code OA -   also operated on the Channel

Edited January 11, 2023 by Gil57

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, Gil57 said:

Hello Patrick Wilson,

You did a great job with your software, thanks a lot for that  

 

I have a question as I want to do a cooperative campaign with friends of mine on Normandy map, within 'free french' service..

I was surprised to find only one squadron, the 326sqn as free french. This squadron, which was the french GC II/7, did only on the mediterranean and south of France areas at that time.

I was wondering if it could be possible to replace it by other ones:

340sqn 'Ile de France' - code GW -  (Spitfire) operated on the Channel

341sqn 'Alsace' - code NL -  (Spitfire) operated on the Channel

 

you can even have the 342sqn 'Lorraine' which used te A20 bomber - code OA -   also operated on the Channel

 

Thanks for the correction.  Changing the squadron name is simple.  PWCG keys on the squadron code, so changing the name has no negative impact on anything.