Game version 1.102 discussion: Macchi in early access

[Guest deleted@50488]

Thx for the new aircraft 1C/777 Team!

 

It feels great, looks great and although I haven't been able to use it in combat ( all servers I entered had the Axis filled with players ), I did try it's flight characteristics on a few QMs and I admire the overall feel you were able to capture in this new model.

 

Really looking fwd to be able to fly all of these in a Summer / Spring map ;-)

[SR-F_Winger]

My first Impression on the MC202 after doing some half hour testing on duelserver against a friend in a 109 F4:

 

- Turns practically identical (bad compared to the UFO). Maybe if you stay on it you can get on the 109s tail after 20 circles:)

- My impresison on the rollrate is that its slightly superior to the 109.

- climbs good on climbpower but due to the overall less power it gets left behind by the 109 pretty quick. So in practical use you better do not try to outlimb a YAK.

- The weapons do barely scratch the enemy. You could throw with snowballs and be marginally less effective.

 

Over all IMO its a worse performing 109 with no argument to actually decide for the Macci IF there is a 109 available.

Beautiful and nice to fly but worthless in practical use.

Edited August 12, 2015 by JG4_Winger

[Finkeren]

Over all IMO its a worse performing 109 with no argument to actually decide for the Macci IF there is a 109 available.

Beautiful and nice to fly but worthless in practical use.

Sounds like they more or less nailed it then. I wouldn't expect the Macchi to outperform the Bf 109F4 in any area except perhaps turn rate.

 

It should handily outrun and outclimb the P-40E though.

[Voidhunger]

- The weapons do barely scratch the enemy. You could throw with snowballs and be marginally less effective.

 

I disagree, i think the two  machineguns are enough to shred laggs. Im starting to be worried about the P40 now.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Voidhunger

[Finkeren]

Unfortunately, the "bubble of blur" issue is still present (seems unchanged) at lower altitudes (1,000-1,500m), so it looks like it's back on the shelf again till the next update

 

 

If that issue is enough for you to put this sim on the shelf, then you have strange priorities IMO.

[150GCT_Veltro]

Seeing some major stutters now with terrain extended view X 4 especially close to the ground. Backing it off to X 2 improved it but not completely. Never saw these stutters until updating to 1.02.

Macchi Prop CSU.

 

In some discussion before release it was mentioned the MC202 only had two RPM settings that are governed. In this discussion it was stated they were 2200RPM and 2400RPM. With the Prop switch in position "A" (auto I presume) the CSU governs to 2400RPM. So is there a way to reset it to also govern to 2200RPM ?

 

System A-M-S does work.

 

A is the automatic propitch with 2200 RPM;

 

M is the manual propitch;

 

We can switch A-M with the Switch propellers pitch control mode: manual/auto (default RShift + P)

 

S is the boost (Super giri = Super RPM) at 2400 RPM

 

We can activate it with Switch engines boost: on/off (default LShift + B)

 

Great work with Macchi guys, really.

Edited August 12, 2015 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Blooddawn1942]

Nice hint! I haven't discovered that the ability to disengage the auto prop pitch works also on the 202.

[ram0506]

Does not work in my game!!!  (except if I missed something?)

In my game it does work!!!

In the old version first the two bombs in the front and then the two bombs in the aft were thrown, when you carried 4x50kg bombs on the German fighters. In version 1.102 the sequence is front left, aft left, front right, aft right. According to manuals (thanks again to JtD!) that is the correct release sequence.

[150GCT_Veltro]

A very good shoot from ETO, a Macchi returned home from the Russian front jast to say how great is the 3D model.

 

 

 

[Joao611]

If two mediocre 50s are enough to do in any fighter in game, I'd hate to be on the receiving end of 6 that have stuck around for over 75 years!  

 

However, keep in mind these Italian .50's, unlike the American, are shooting explosive bullets.

0.8 grams of PETN in each .50 explosive bullet, AFAIK.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Joao611

[Brano]

After usual 15 minutes of fame I am shelving this toy to the section for "Insignificant/irrelevant eastern front stuff"....So what is next after this intermezzo italiano? P-40 I presume.Lets equip those 2 IAPs of Stalingrads 102nd IAD PVO.Oh,wait a minute,late summer/autumn map will have the city allready destroyed.Poor LW and its KGs,what will they do? Ah yes,there will be these gunboats on Volga. 

[CCG_Pips]

In my game it does work!!!

In the old version first the two bombs in the front and then the two bombs in the aft were thrown, when you carried 4x50kg bombs on the German fighters. In version 1.102 the sequence is front left, aft left, front right, aft right. According to manuals (thanks again to JtD!) that is the correct release sequence.

 

Thanks for precision, I was expecting to choose the sequence (2 x 50kgs together or all  x 50Kgs in one release)

[LoupVert]

Built Ford Tough!

 

Lost controls @ 2000m (hit by a pesky 109), recovering from a spin, the bird started to dive with no concerns to my desperate efforts to level it. It's after the gear have been the that the bird and I came to an agreement to live another day and land roughly but alive this time.

[6./ZG26_Custard]

 

 

After usual 15 minutes of fame I am shelving this toy to the section for "Insignificant/irrelevant eastern front stuff"....

 

 

Damn it, we only have 11 left!

 

It's a very nicely modelled and fun aircraft but saying that a rather odd choice IMO. I can only assume the 202 will feature in a more prominent role in a future episode of IL2?

 

MTO maybe?

 

I hope the next aircraft that are planned after BOM will either be the Hurricane or the P-39.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Built Ford Tough!

 

Lost controls @ 2000m (hit by a pesky 109), recovering from a spin, the bird started to dive with no concerns to my desperate efforts to level it. It's after the gear have been the that the bird and I came to an agreement to live another day and land roughly but alive this time.

 

Your video is private. Can't see it.

 

MC.202 is certainly a tough airframe... it should be tougher than the 109 by a fair margin. One advantage to the slow construction technique used by the Italians is that the airframe was extremely solid.

[LoupVert]

Thanks for the heads-up ShamrockOneFive. 

[Boomerang]

Thank you team for the update and the community for the flicks and pics

Building a new Rig this weekend, looking forward to the view

[tovarisch]

The landscape looks perfect to me now. Great job. Airplanes more and more interesting in cockpit detail.

I miss the same detail in the pe-2 cockpit. Some more detailed textures would be nice (IMHO). I also wait for the summer map.

Good job developers.

[duko]

After usual 15 minutes of fame I am shelving this toy to the section for "Insignificant/irrelevant eastern front stuff"....So what is next after this intermezzo italiano? P-40 I presume.Lets equip those 2 IAPs of Stalingrads 102nd IAD PVO.Oh,wait a minute,late summer/autumn map will have the city allready destroyed.Poor LW and its KGs,what will they do? Ah yes,there will be these gunboats on Volga. 

 

Yea, sadly this plane was chosen over IAR who was alot more relevant in this scenario, but the biggest turn off for me was the reasoning for choosing this plane was that there are more italiens buying this game than romanians  if that was the case then this game should have only russians and german players

I will buy it eventually but on release day.

[Dakpilot]

The IAR 80 certainly has a place and I would love to have seen one, however the 202 can have much more potential in future scenarios  along with the P-40

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[LLv24_Zami]

Indeed - the distant terrain does look better after this latest update, especially from higher altitudes (around 5,000m).  And the new plane is a beauty.

 

Unfortunately, the "bubble of blur" issue is still present (seems unchanged) at lower altitudes (1,000-1,500m), so it looks like it's back on the shelf again till the next update    

 

Really wish someone could come up with a fix or find some sort of work-around, but at least it's good to see the devs are still hard at work and still bringing good things to the game.  Maybe someday this issue will work its way onto their fix-list.

 

No absolute game breaker to me but this "bubble of blur" is very noticeable and disturbing sometimes. At low altitudes especially. Landscape looks pretty awesome apart from this blur so let`s hope it gets improvement at some point.

[4SCT_Vespa]

Is there any manual/docs about how to fly the Macchi? I hate to hit A key to fly it....

[RDW]

When you get stuck playing at 20-30FPS (which is not the case for me) than that "regular old 60 FPS" probably looks pretty darned good. 

 I lowered the graphics all the way and now I can get around 40 to 50 fps. Still looks okay though.

[Dr_Molenbeek]

Seems like the ground textures issue is definitely gone.

 

Good job. 

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Just took a He111 for a high alt bomb run. The Shift+Z/Shift+X (or the GUI button) seems to not bank the plane anywhere near as much as it used to.

This seems to help adjusting during the final run.

 

Still unable to use rudder trim in any way (to potentially counter wind drift? and fine tune the bomb run) when you are set for auto level. Autopilot seems set on a heading and rudder trim does nothing.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Tripwire

[IIN8II]

Really love the improved vapor trails when fired weapons. Although they appear to be missing from the 202

[Jaws2002]

Machi c202 with twenty millimeter cannons...  .....

 

Thank you warthunder.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Jaws2002

[LukeFF]

Machi c202 with twenty millimeter cannons...  .....

 

Thank you warthunder.

 

Don't like them, don't use 'em, it's that simple. Or are you also going to criticize the Ju 87 for getting 37 mm cannons for a Stalingrad scenario?

[TG-55Panthercules]

If that issue is enough for you to put this sim on the shelf, then you have strange priorities IMO.

 

Well, maybe so (never claimed otherwise).  I only really enjoy ground attack in WWII sims (main reason for falling in love with the original IL-2 game and all its progeny, although I did kinda like shredding B-17 formations with my Komet every once in a while toward the end), and so I spend most of my time at relatively low altitude scanning the ground for targets - the "bubble of blur" completely destroys my enjoyment of doing that, so yeah, it goes back on the shelf for me until this problem gets resolved.

[CF-105]

However, keep in mind these Italian .50's, unlike the American, are shooting explosive bullets.

0.8 grams of PETN in each .50 explosive bullet, AFAIK.

 

But only half of their belt is composed of HE rounds, so the other half rely on kinetic energy to do damage, which puts it behind the browning by far.

Breda 12.7 has a muzzle velocity of 765 m/s, M2 has 930 m/s.

Breda has a RoF of 700, M2 does about 750-850.

You do have the correct amount of explosive, but with that amount it doesn't make much difference.

 

Per gun, M2s are a fair amount better, and the P-40 has 3 times the amount of them than the Mc.202.

The twin Breda-Safats already tear aircraft up enough as it is!

[Frequent_Flyer]

But only half of their belt is composed of HE rounds, so the other half rely on kinetic energy to do damage, which puts it behind the browning by far.

Breda 12.7 has a muzzle velocity of 765 m/s, M2 has 930 m/s.

Breda has a RoF of 700, M2 does about 750-850.

You do have the correct amount of explosive, but with that amount it doesn't make much difference.

 

Per gun, M2s are a fair amount better, and the P-40 has 3 times the amount of them than the Mc.202.

The twin Breda-Safats already tear aircraft up enough as it is!

It will be interesting to actually have M2 .50's accurately modeled in a flight sim .

[CF-105]

It will be interesting to actually have M2 .50's accurately modeled in a flight sim .

 

Do you know if DCS did it well at all?

Edited August 13, 2015 by CF-105

[Finkeren]

Do you know if DCS did it well at all?

Hard to tell, when the DCS damage model is so clunky.

[Freycinet]

But only half of their belt is composed of HE rounds, so the other half rely on kinetic energy to do damage, which puts it behind the browning by far.

Breda 12.7 has a muzzle velocity of 765 m/s, M2 has 930 m/s.

Breda has a RoF of 700, M2 does about 750-850.

You do have the correct amount of explosive, but with that amount it doesn't make much difference.

 

Per gun, M2s are a fair amount better, and the P-40 has 3 times the amount of them than the Mc.202.

The twin Breda-Safats already tear aircraft up enough as it is!

I don't see a huge nor decisive difference in the parameters (muzzle velocity and rate of fire). Also, the six wing-mounted guns of the P-40 would typically be aligned for a larger hit area, which would diminuish the hitting power of a well-placed burst.

[Finkeren]

The wing guns of the P-40 will be devastating, at convergence distance!

 

Outside that point their effectiveness will rapidly diminish to a point where the 2 cowl mounted Bredas might actually be better.

 

I expect to set my convergence to 800m when flying the P-40 to get least amount of spread outside of convergence and use it primarily as a ground pounder and bomber killer - Pretty much the same way I use the LaGG-3 now, which is why I have taken to calling the P-40 'the poor mans LaGG'

[Blooddawn1942]

I allways asumed that the performance of the P-40 was superior to the LaGG 3.

Wouldn't it be a 'Noblemans LaGG' in this case?

[150GCT_Veltro]

Don't like them, don't use 'em, it's that simple. Or are you also going to criticize the Ju 87 for getting 37 mm cannons for a Stalingrad scenario?

 

+1

 

It's an option, like bombs. Macchi could carry this kinde of stuff as for fuel tanks, so.....

Historically, in an official torunement, we should have to lock both bombs and cannons, but in the furball "arcadish" games, why not? So, there are not problems here.

 

Edited August 13, 2015 by 150GCT_Veltro

[Finkeren]

I allways asumed that the performance of the P-40 was superior to the LaGG 3.

Wouldn't it be a 'Noblemans LaGG' in this case?

Well if Wikipedias numbers can be trusted, they are about the same. The LaGG climbs significantly better but then again the P-40 propably handles a lot better and has superior turn rate.

 

In both cases the true selling point will be the armament options.

[Falco_Peregrinus]

I love the 202. It handles very well and it's fast.

It's like sitting in a Maserati Granturismo and fighting in it

[BeastyBaiter]

Do you know if DCS did it well at all?

 

I have all the non trainer DCS modules, it doesn't handle 12.7mm's well at all. The damage model was made back in the 1990's for the missiles and 20mm+ gatling guns you'd find on Su-27's and F-15's. It's a little crude by today's standards, but it works when using those types of weapons against those kinds of targets. The entire system falls apart when looking at LMG's and HMG's though. So no, DCS can't be looked at as an example of what to expect with the P-40 or any other WW2 plane. I think the closest we have in game at the moment is the LaGG-3's single 12.7mm. It's fairly effective at smoking engines and killing pilots. Six of them should be very nasty.