Developer Diary, Part 38

[cichlidfan]

Three days a week just means planning ahead. 

[FlatSpinMan]

Also, stop replying to the snippy little posts that annoy you with your own snippy little post.

[Dakpilot]

I still find it hard to fathom the amount supposedly "informed"  people who still cant grasp that it was always Early access in Autumn and not Early Autumn access

 

Perhaps it is a language barrier issue

 

Cheers Dakpilot 

[=AVG=Zombie]

Looks good guys, cant wait to get shot down oops I mean shoot someone down, 3 days does suck but what ever............ What did ya expect anyway??????? a full sim in Alpha stage???? wishfull thinking... %!$# in one hand and want in the other, which one fills up first?

[FuriousMeow]

early autumn access first transformed into autumn early access and now again into autumn very limited early access.

 

So many times it has been stated to you that you are wrong, it was never early autumn access. It's always been early access in autumn. This will fall on deaf ears again though, as not once before has it sunk in for you.

[111_Green]

Can I buy a second pre-order to have 6 days access and duble gold logo under my nick?

BTW got good idea, gold preorder - 3 days access, platinium- 5 days, platinium with diamonds- 7days.

Think about it!

[Marrond]

Do tell? Please what bait did I take? There are so many people in these threads who claim to be insiders, it might help if you'd offer up your knowledge to the rest of us.

Keep in mind I didn't meant to offend you with my post. You just reacted as perfect client from PR guy's mind standpoint. I appreciate the sarcasm and understand your concerns (although I can't say much... we sign tons licenses before we will get allowed to sit at the desk just to play 5minute fragment for one week over and over and over again, all I can add is that's another zombie game from anticipated dev in that regard) so I will list major points in current situation. I kindly apologize everyone else for offtopic. First of all let's get something straight - last "true" beta that served any purpose other than testing server environment occured like 10 years ago or so in yet_another_asian_mmo, today this term is considered more like "time limited demo" for customer rather than anything involving testing. That's ofcourse excluding some of indie developers but we're talking about AAA market.

 

Now I won't quote certain parts of the dev diary since it's meaningless (unless you REALLY want to).

 

Pre-orders contained early access. I hope I don't have to copy exact definition of this term? In devdiary you're informed that you will be actual tester. At the very beggining you're getting cliche story about how hard game-dev is and how much they would like to provide best product as possible. Right after that you're informed that your early access in fact won't be early access but testing instead - well that's not bad right? You will send of some bug reports and work together with devs to make game more polished, right? That's exactly what you're meant think. Right after they apologize because you will "test" only for 3 days a week... in the middle of it (I guess all these people who threw 90$ at the screen did so because they're sitting all time in home and certainly doesn't have jobs... oh wait). Unless they're late (and few other things are pointing exactly in this direction) on schedule they propably don't sit in their office 24/7. Now if game breaking bug occurs during that 72h of testing there's little to no chance it will get fixed in that short period of time - which ultimately defeats purpose of doing tests midweek. If you as a developer rely on community input you're not setting things just like they've been announced - you would want as many people to help you test things and you would pick weekend because this is when majority of people got time free from their jobs and are willing to go into nolife-mode just for the sake of your game. But that's not important. They're saying that testing will occur in these riddiculous timeframes because they will be able to quickly fix the issues. You know that essentialy means that they will work in the weekends (and if they're behind the schedule they already do). Anyhow those explanations are nowhere near explaining what's the problem with releasing full-time early access (like it's supposed to be - it's not like you playing arround in sunday will change anything for them). More real explanation would be that they forgot to rent servers and it's impossible to get full time high capacity server right now - would that be unproffessional and riddiculous? Indeed - also it would be more logical, also don't take this too serious it was just example of something reasonable. And the end... the end is another apologize. You will get exciting next devdairies that will be done especialy to entertain you meanwhile you can't play (it's not like you've dumped extra money exactly for that purpose - and even if you did it just to support the cause, you must understand all those "I demand my money back" guys out there. Are their statements and demands childish? Yes, but that's what happens when PR talks go into the way, which should work in the exactly opposite manner). If this was Call of Duty (other audience) they would propably play feed us with history documentary movies about the period captured in the game...

 

Also as far as I'm aware there wasn't any time limited tests that had any impact on the release in any public tests I've participated in. As for internal tests - did you ever wonder why non-online games doesn't have testing versions released to public? Because there's no need to test network capability and everything other is done internally (and not because it's single player one-time content since you can easily go arround that). I've said it earlier but I will repeat. By my shot: they're month-two behind the schedule therefore they will tease the playerbase to not piss them off (life would be easier if they didn't announce early access but then again how many preorders would go then? not as much for sure since like it or not, most people in general do something on purpose other than pure love to the product).

 

As for why I'm almost certain that they're late - described wall of PR stories in dev diary that makes no logical sense as well as the fact that if you're starting selling your game like half year before under the benefit of early access in Autumn you don't do it at the end of it. It's like you start selling game at the end of 2012, write that every preorder will get access to preview code in 2013... and then wait untill December 31st (this is actually real example of one indie company out there right now) - you're providing exactly what you said but would you do it in that manner unless you weren't ready enough, right?

 

 

 

---------

Sorry for being rough but after seeing things from the other side of barricade I lost my delusions about corelation between what's being said in public and what's actualy happening behind the scenes. Ofcourse, this is just a wild guess but there wouldn't be place for that if there was less PR BS in that dairy and more actual facts. Before any yes-man out there will jump to my throat - it's not moaning, hating or QQing, user asked for my explanation and got it, we will set our score later in skies over Stalingrad :]

[pilotpierre]

The IL2 looks great guys.

I am at a loss to understand the wailing that is going on here. I think it was pretty obvious from way back that we early birds were going to be testers.

I imagine this way will get the complete game on the streets quicker and with less bugs.

However, having been involved with flight sim forums since the beginning of the original IL2 I appreciate NOTHING done to a flight sim will ever win anything like 100% satisfaction.

Looking forward to getting some air time 777, keep the faith, I think this is going to be an all time winner in the end.

 

And Requiem, good to see you have an oar in the water here. As (a real life pilot and a flight simmer for some years) I think your training videos are of a very high and very professional standard that would do well in the real world. Am I correct in assuming you are a pilot in real life also?

[FuriousMeow]

Before any yes-man out there will jump to my throat - it's not moaning, hating or QQing, user asked for my explanation and got it, we will set our score later in skies over Stalingrad :]

 

When you end a post like that, you are doing exactly what you claim not to be doing - and trying to insult anyone who does not moan/hate/QQ by labelling them a "yes-man." That's also aside from the fact that you are, in fact, doing those things quite obviously in that post.

Edited October 26, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Feathered_IV]

The more I think about it, it should be rather fun to all pile in as much as we can during the three days a week. Then all yabber about it in this virtual-Valhalla, before being presented with the next update the following week.

[TheBlackPenguin]

I won't have much time to test mid-week for obvious reasons, however hopefully the time I get to test will help the team improve and gain confidence so they're able to open up the days allotted to the tests in the shortest amount of time. Notice this was already planned in the announcement? What they cannot say with certainty is just how long it will be before the days extend out to fill the weekend unattended. I wish the team the best of luck in the that.

 

As for the il2, looking great! Any definitive word on which planes will be available to test during the first phase? I know it may still be too early to say.

[Ralith]

Speaking as someone who preordered mostly for the sake of early access, I'm disappointed in the time limitations and I feel that this really should have been clearly and explicitly stated on the preorder page. That said, I do not regret my preorder, and ultimately I'd prefer the developers to do whatever is necessary to make sure that BoS is the best game it can be in the long term. There are, after all, innumerable other things to do with one's time.

[Bearcat]

Look guys it is what it is... I wish there was at least some kind of offline capability .. that would make a lot of this easier to swallow but perhaps the AI is not fully ready.. at the moment there isn't an offline and I won't get to do much either in the middle of the week so I will enjoy what I can and look forward to the final product. As I said it is what it is... I certainly can understand some of the grief over this considering the time that we have been waiting. I for one was looking forward to taking time off to try this but now that will most likely not even be on the agenda... but I am still no less psyched about the sim and I am no less stoked and confident that at some point between now and close to final release I will get that access.. It is understandable that some folks are bent out of shape and disappointed in the current plan.. but if there is one take away that we all need to consider no matter where we fall on this .. and that is that there is indeed a plan.. One that has been stated and one that is being stuck to as best as the develpers can based on what they know .. not what we expect or feel whether rightly or wrongly we deserve .. so just because things didn't roll out like we wanted them to for now doesn't mean that we won't get what we paid for and considering the pricing mentioned last week I still think I got a bargain.

 

If you are bent .. I can dig it .. but please try to express yourself in an adult fashion and refrain from making any of this personal.

[Original_Uwe]

I see what your saying Bearcat, but the plan in place is idiotic.

I mean I get the 72 hours per week, makes sense in fact. Lots of data will be generated and they need time to go over it. Totally makes sense.

No offline? well that sure sucks but hey, well get there.

Lack of content? well duh, no one went into this thinking they would get the whole 9 yards in the early access.

 

But in the middle of the freaking week? I understand we Americans work more than most but sweet jesus tap dancing christ thats a schedule only a welfare rat or student can hope to make. Sorry for being middle calss and having, you know, a job and a family  .

Is the work week different in the old CCCP than here in the west?

As it is I will not be able to participate at all, so I'm wondering who I should contact for a refund?

Edited October 26, 2013 by CWMV

[adonys]

no, I'm sorry but 72h only a week does NOT make sense. if they can only process 72h a week, and need for that 96h, what's stopping them to let the server go in those 96h in which they are processing, and simply not gather any more data or simply ignore it until the next 72h cycle?

[Heywooood]

wow - you get early access - thats all that was 'promised'

 

make the best of it mid week or not - I can't believe the zealots who paid the extra for this wont make time to use it...get over yourselves, its embarrassing for f'sake

 

man - being on their side of it must suck right now - they give free upgrades, offer thank you options to the founders and all we see is bitch bitch bitch

 

most likely the restrictions wont last but a week or two before they get a handle on things...maybe longer - but at least we have something to get our mits on

Edited October 26, 2013 by Heywooood

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Pretty sure they said it wasnt going to be just those three days for the entire pre release period. God you guys are freaking out. This proves to me that no matter what you do. You cannot please anyone in this god forsaken entitlement community. Early access is early access. Deal with it.

[theOden]

..

also, if this tue-thu autumn early limited access is definitive for more than a week period, I would like to inform you I want to cancel my premium pre-order and I would like to receive direction from you regarding the needed necessary steps.

..

Just e-mail "support@1cgs.net" and tell them like I just did this morning.

Either I get my silly money back or they are lost into my "naive trust account".

I really don't care about 100 bucks but they could be good learning money.

Unbelievable to read some posts here.

Sounds like someone took off the most beloved toy of a kid, that never had the toy in his hands.

..

Yet again someone needs to belittle others to raise importance to their statement, what's up with you guys?

IL2 community..

Looks good guys, cant wait to get shot down oops I mean shoot someone down, 3 days does suck but what ever............ What did ya expect anyway??????? a full sim in Alpha stage???? wishfull thinking... %!$# in one hand and want in the other, which one fills up first?

Reading the thread I'd say it the limited access during hours people have to feed theirs kids and do other similar activities - I'm sure you're aware of parenting - so I honestly cannot see from where you get these questions?

Nice usage on multiple question marks btw.

[theOden]

..This proves to me that no matter what you do. You cannot please anyone in this god forsaken entitlement community. Early access is early access. Deal with it.

I'm very sorry, I'll try to get my acts together next time.

Edited October 26, 2013 by theOden

[YoYo]

Just pity than not in Friday-Sunday. Three days is very little period and in the middle of week.

[Rigel]

Can't believe that the people who have paid for "premium" paid for early access, not just to support developers in the not popular genre.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Rigel

[adonys]

let me quote your words from the dark side, son: "can't believe developers in a niche genre are asking people who paid for premium early access to have access to it during working days only, and not during their weekends"

 

there you go..

Edited October 26, 2013 by adonys

[Wind]

 

But in the middle of the freaking week?

 

 

no, I'm sorry but 72h only a week does NOT make sense.

 

 

 

Guys : Sit down, take a paper bag and breath in it. Slowly.

 

There is a reason for that decision.

 

Be it because of work schedules of the bughunters & coders & server guys or whatever.

Be it because they perhaps want to use same servers as for RoF, which are dead quiet during the week.

Be it because...

 

No company, well, very few, wants to gimp their products or piss off their clients on purpose.

 

 

And the main point is  : THE 72h MID WEEK TEST IS NOT PERMANENT!!!

 

 

Guys, seriously!

It might last only a week, or two or three, but for crying out aloud, they will get to more normal 24/7 test at some point.

If it takes only one week, they have sorted out the issues behind that decision.

If it takes several weeks, the decision to implement the 72h Test has been the right decision, as it is still a ongoing

issue!

[FlyingNutcase]

I really don't get why some of you guys are so up in arms. Do you not understand from Blacksix's post that if it wasn't for the initial limited early access, there would be no access at all for longer.  And [my opinion] the final release would probably be either later and/or potentially "Clod"ish.

 

 Why would you guys want a full early access release now when it's not ready?! What would you be saying about the potential resulting mess? They need to start limited and they'll expand it as they progress. 

[HagarTheHorrible]

The vid looks great.

 

Personally I'm pretty laid back, without great expectations, I can live with the 72 hours per week, slightly less so the middle of the week, but I'll deal with it and just get on with the other things in my life.

 

It does seem a bit of an own goal by the developers though, possibly brought about by not really having a good think about the profile of the community.  Flight simmers, in my experience, tend to be older with access to slightly better disposable funds.  Conversely it often means that they have more demands on their time whether it's family commitments or just work, mid week in view of this seems therefore to be a bit silly.  In retrospect, and bearing in mind that there all be all sorts of  perfectly sound reasons for their decision, a testing period that had one of the days during the weekend, Sunday through Tuesday for example, might have helped relieve some of all the angst that is being expressed.

 

Given 777's experience with RoF, they might however know better as to the optimum times to run the servers to maximum advantage.

[adonys]

Why would you guys want a full early access release now when it's not ready?! What would you be saying about the potential resulting mess? They need to start limited and they'll expand it as they progress.

 

amazing! do you think we're stupid and that we don't know the game is not complete? we just want decent (if not full) access to what we saw it can be done until now: ie sit in the cockpit, takeoff, fly and then land with BF109 and LAGG3. we're completely aware there's no shooty shooty, that the few AI code existing lines are dumb as the night, and that there's nodogfight. and we'd be fine with that. Edited October 26, 2013 by adonys

[TheBlackPenguin]

I'm very sorry, I'll try to get my acts together next time.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, and of course feelings, but my only suggestion is to think things through for a couple of days just in case you do something you later regret. Alpha and beta process will form but a small part of the entire experience, the days listed will certainly change, it is a matter of when and not if.

[adonys]

misspost

Edited October 26, 2013 by adonys

[TheBlackPenguin]

amazing! do you think we're stupid and that we don't know the game is not complete? we just want decent (if not full) access to what we saw it can be done until now: ie sit in the cockpit, takeoff, fly and then land with BF109 and LAGG3. and we'd be fine with that.

 

Someone would complain, maybe not you, but I guarantee it. They have a specific plan and also industry know how on the best way to make the best possible simulation and they should have our full support shouldn't they? Even if we're not happy for what is going to amount to a short time?

[adonys]

you miss the mainpoint. we accepted a lot of "less than happy" circumstancies, swallowed the pill and went on with it (like the need to play premium price for not so premium software, or the need to accept a disadvantageous business model), because there's really no alternative to it.

 

but to have to accept to swallow even more bitter pills from the hand of the developer, when they are unnecessary and so easy to avoid.. it's a thing beyond my understanding. are you guys masochists, or what?

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

Looks as if I'm not gonna see the BoS beta as I the access to my game Pc is limited to Friday - Sunday.

Now that's kinda disappointing and actually not that what I expected. I'm obviously not the only one facing this problem. Wouldn't it be possible to add ad least one weekend-day to the accessible Beta time in near future? I mean I have no problem just supporting the devs with money, but I was really looking forward to the Beta testing as I still remember the good old days in IL-2 and RoF beta, which was quite a defining time then.

Edited October 26, 2013 by I/JG27_Zimmi

[FlyingNutcase]

amazing! do you think we're stupid and that we don't know the game is not complete? we just want decent (if not full) access to what we saw it can be done until now: ie sit in the cockpit, takeoff, fly and then land with BF109 and LAGG3. we're completely aware there's no shooty shooty, that the few AI code existing lines are dumb as the night, and that there's nodogfight. and we'd be fine with that.

 

I didn't mean the full game, of course, but full access to the current content. Why request full 24/7 access before it's ready? What would you guys (and the rest of us) be saying about the potential mess? With the alternative being no access at all until say mid-December, it seems like a no-brainer. 

 

There's a bigger picture at hand and part of that is trying to stick to the planned release in Q2 2014. Without this limited early release, it might end up being Q3 or Q4 and/or a Clodish mess. 

[adonys]

use your judgement, mate. there's no such thing as 24/7 access not ready, but 24/3/7 access ready in the God's year 2013, internet era.

 

any decent reason fails to explain this odd limited access. the only reason for this would simply be "because the developer wishes so". the only logic behind this reason would be that they want to herd us into their convenient working time.

 

but there were other solutins for this. for example simply stating it "guys, we need you also during the week days", and we would have tried our best to help them. or condition weekend access to having at least 1h tesing during each working week day. or be creative, and stage events during the week days, so people would want to come.

 

but.. this? I'm sorry, but I find the way they've chosen disrespectful to me. and I'm sure many will agree.

 

with this little stunt they've transformed the premium early access in autumn (which we discovered to actually be only 2/12 weeks, ie around 15% of the autumn), in quite a late winter one (considering that they've already stated that "in the beginning (first 2-3 months) there will be only online play (for data gathering)", most probably this will coincide with the midweek 3 days only limited access period), this also meaning rather beginning of 2014 for a real unlimited beta access.

 

abd then, I ask you, where's my real early access in the autumn of 2013 most of us paid the premium price for?

Edited October 26, 2013 by adonys

[II./JG27_Rich]

The Battle of Britain is over...that god

The Battle of Stalingrad is about to begin...remember the BOB movie

 

 

[Trident_109]

Thanks for the update, guys

[adonys]

The Battle of Britain is over...that god

The Battle of Stalingrad is about to begin..

Well, we've just kind of found out that BoB is far from being over, and BoS is far from actually begin!

[bzc3lk]

wow - you get early access - thats all that was 'promised'

 

make the best of it mid week or not - I can't believe the zealots who paid the extra for this wont make time to use it...get over yourselves, its embarrassing for f'sake

 

man - being on their side of it must suck right now - they give free upgrades, offer thank you options to the founders and all we see is bitch bitch bitch

 

most likely the restrictions wont last but a week or two before they get a handle on things...maybe longer - but at least we have something to get our mits on

 

  I couldn't agree more.

[ST_ami7b5]

Team Fusion 4.0 patch is really nice.

So for me it will be something like this:

- testing BoS Tue-Thu

- playing RoF, CloD TF4.0, IL-2 HSFX 7, IL-2 4.12.2 and some DCS:World modules Fri-Mon

 

Nice.

Edited October 26, 2013 by ST_ami7b5

[Pierre64]

Team Fusion 4.0 patch is really nice.

So for me it will be something like this:

- testing BoS Tue-Thu

- playing RoF, CloD TF4.0, IL-2 HSFX 7, IL-2 4.12.2 and some DCS:World modules Fri-Mon

 

Nice.

You are a very busy man

[ST_ami7b5]

You are a very busy man