Developer Diary, Part 38

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Heilkill, i understand this news will be harder for some than others, im mostly ok, i have plenty of time in the evenings and midweek mornings to play.

 

For people who have very little time midweek nights i can understand being pretty disappointed, but hopefully this will improve as the sim is developed.

[ush]

It wasn't. Early access wasn't described, since the developpers at that time haven't defined the content and conditions of this early access. It  was defined today for the first time.

But in any case, it was many times stated on this forum, by many peoples including me that early access had nothing to do with full access to full game, and that everybody able to think a bit would be able to understand it. When you don't know something, either you ask, or you wait for the information to be given, but you don't accuse people to lie when the information is given.

 

I havent accused anyone of anything so you might direct that last comment elsewhere. 

 

Early access was described: "Buyers of Premium Edition will get the early access in autumn 2013." (As a side note theres about 5 weeks left in autumn.  Premium early access could mean as little as 12 days worth of access over standard early access. )

 

purchasers were not made aware of the highly restricted nature of paid early access at the time of purchase. That means they were not made aware of it, there are no qualifications to that. if you check the order page even now potential purchasers are still not being made aware of it. When you're appealing  for financial support thats poor form and will exhaust a lot of the good will that the project has enjoyed this far.

[Rude_Toon]

For those of us who extremely appreciate the teams efforts to produce the most realistic and immersive game possible, I would hope there would be some respect that early access means there will be things that need to be improved and, that we have the unique opportunity to offer constructive information that will make the game and thus our community better.  But I am sure there will be some non constructive criticism it is unfortunately inevitable.  I believe, in the long run, the strengths of the game will drowned out the isolated complainers.  Cant wait to see it!

[Pierre64]

Thank you, Jason.

All the answers to all my questions

Edited October 25, 2013 by Pierre64

[Freycinet]

OK, I'll try (being an IT analyst for few decades)

 

If you start testing a new software you won't put it straight to a full stress load right from the start (full stress load means weekends in this context).

This solution (Tue-Thu) would put the system to stress test gradually - in the mornings just retired/homeless/holliday/... /would join.

Then more and more people would start playing, which makes testing more manageable for the devs IMO.

(my bold)

 

This is the posting that has made by far the most sense in this thread. Posting #136 on page 4 in the thread if you want to go back and give an upvote.

 

----------

 

...As for the rest: well it has been interesting to see who are

 

and who are taking things more calmly...

Edited October 25, 2013 by Freycinet

[DD_bongodriver]

This is the posting that has made by far the most sense in this thread. Posting #136 on page 4 in the thread if you want to go back and give an upvote

 

 

 

I will decline as the guy is simply rude and obnoxious.

[heinkill]

(my bold)

 

This is the posting that has made by far the most sense in this thread. Posting #136 on page 4 in the thread if you want to go back and give an upvote.

 

-----in the mornings just retired/homeless/holliday/... /would join-----

D'oh! Of course. Now I get it!

 

Here he is. BoS Founder happy with his preorder!

 

 

Edited October 25, 2013 by heinkill

[Rama]

I havent accused anyone of anything so you might direct that last comment elsewhere. 

 

And the comment wasn't directed specifically at you, but at everybody

 

purchasers were not made aware of the highly restricted nature of paid early access at the time of purchase. That means they were not made aware of it,

This remember me the cas of peoples suing microwave oven sellers because it wasn't written on the notice that they were not made to dry the cat after the cat wash.

 

What do you imagined: that you would get full access to the full game at the begining of early access?

If not... what level of restriction were you expecting? (without any reason since nothing was said about before today)

[DD_bongodriver]

With all due respect, I have never encountered a paid alpha access that limited my time to certain days of the week.

[KaC_Furias]

"1. This genre can't afford another CLOD disaster.

2. 1C doesn't want another CLOD disaster.

3. 777 has never had a CLOD disaster and doesn't want to start. Managing ROF development was hard enough.

4. This genre needs new blood and new products that are not 7 years between releases."

 

I'm not much of a talker and rarely outside my opinion here in the forum, but the arguments brought here are quite convincing.

 

Just bought the alpha know why the engine that gives life to ROF and it's impressive.

 

I can wait   .  

[Rama]

With all due respect, I have never encountered a paid alpha access that limited my time to certain days of the week.

There's a first time for everything.

[dburne]

 

What do you imagined: that you would get full access to the full game at the begining of early access?

If not... what level of restriction were you expecting? (without any reason since nothing was said about before today)

 

Just speaking for myself - I think most envisioned having early access ( without limitation to certain days of the week), to a very early unfinished version of BOS. I highly doubt many of us, if any,  envisioned there would be only certain times during the week that access to the early product was allowed... Heck I can say that thought never even entered my mind.

Therefore, those that those days are not convenient for are disappointed, and those that do have time available during those days are not so much so disappointed...

Edited October 25, 2013 by dburnette

[Zuti]

Well, as much I also like the updates for me, as for many others, this kind of early access is useless. I too only have time to be in front of the PC playing during weekends and this tue-thu perios only means that early access it not that early for me. I don't mind the restriction to 3 days, though I also don't get it - coming from Outerra engine you can use it as much as yout want and can send logs for them to analyse when you want (or have them automatically sent to them if the game crashes). But again, 3 days is fine, it's just the stupid (imho) schedule in the middle of the week.

 

I do like that you are consistent though, every Friday, new update. Someone should f*****g learn this lesson a long long time ago :D

 

BTW, when do you plan on introducing the FW :D Just asking.

[DD_bongodriver]

There's a first time for everything.

 

Indeed, and it seems nobody was made aware it was going to happen, ironic that the buzz words here are great community interaction and we end up here.

[SYN_Haashashin]

I would like to see what happens when the open days switch to weekends and finally to 24/7 early access.

 

Quite dont understand all the discussion but...carry on. Im out.

[DD_bongodriver]

I would like to see what happens when the open days switch to weekends and finally to 24/7 early access.

 

Quite dont understand all the discussion but...carry on. Im out.

 

The fuss is the fact that early release is stated to be 2nd week of November, it was never clear it would definetly be conditional and limited in this way, I don't understand how people don't understand how people who have been getting excited like Justin Bieber fans have just found out the gig is put off aren't going to be a bit upset.

[Volkoff]

I think it might be helpful if community members read the user agreement. The user agreement can be easily accessed by clicking on the hyperlink titled User Agreement, found at the bottom of this forum page. The user agreement may clear up many of the issues and misconceptions presented in this thread.   MJ

Edited October 25, 2013 by =69.GIAP=MIKHA

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Thanks devs, great update!

[Freycinet]

OK, I'll try (being an IT analyst for few decades

 

If you start testing a new software you won't put it straight to a full stress load right from the start (full stress load means weekends in this context).

This solution (Tue-Thu) would put the system to stress test gradually - in the mornings just retired/homeless/holliday/... /would join.

Then more and more people would start playing, which makes testing more manageable for the devs IMO.

 

 

I will decline as the guy is simply rude and obnoxious.

 

How in the world can that posting be construed to be "rude" and "obnoxious"???

 

You need to look at yourself.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

Maybe its a way of limiting numbers in the early days, so they can see what the servers will handle? Several thousand people trying to jump online at the weekend could crash it in the early days, and a dead server that nobody can play on is not helpful to anybody.

Just an idea, could be totally wrong of course

Edited October 25, 2013 by Uther

[DD_bongodriver]

How in the world can that posting be construed to be "rude" and "obnoxious"???

 

You need to look at yourself.

 

Before you hit the return key you really need to read what you reply to.

[Jaws2002]

Guys,

 

 

Our experience and successes and set-backs with ROF have given us good insight in how to manage this. Please trust we are doing what we think is best for all involved. The goal being everyone gets their money's worth in the end. 

 

Jason

 

With that experience behind why didn't you made it crystal clear clear in the early access preorder screen, so people know what they pay for? I've been involved in dozen of beta/early releases and honestly, I never seen one with such a restrictive schedule. I don't have time to plan my play time. I play when I can and mid week is a time I usually can't play.

why didn't you make it crystal clear it's going to have this rigid schedule?

you said you had the experience with ROF, so you probably planned this a long time ago. Why make us belive it's going to be released like any other PAID beta?

How about give everyone a certain amount of time to play and let them play it when they have time, so everyone that paid for early access has a chance to get his/her money's worth? Or at least make it available for offline play in off times.

 

Telling us about this restrictive schedule only now, months after you got our money, is not a honest way to do business.

[FuriousMeow]

The fact that you believe you will get any money's worth playing this alpha is pretty indicative you are expecting a complete or even semi-complete product. 30% completion means you'll spend more time with oddities, crashes, missing effects than actually playing.

 

Plus, you'll be paying more when the release version comes out than you did here.

Edited October 25, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Heywooood]

Jason and 777 1CGS : you guys have my full support FWIW and I understand completely - this is your hard work and I thank you for allowing the early access in whatever manner you see fit.

I understand that eventually, as the line and load on the server side gets worked out, we will have more access until finally the 24/7 threshold can be properly managed on your end. Makes perfect sense.

 

Otherwise - the solution would have been no early access and all of us would be waiting for next spring....also - much operating and development capital would not have been available for you - meaning we all would more

likely have had to wait until mid to end of 2014.

 

I am sure there would have been NO WAY for you to measure the load of a sudden, complete release of this simulator that would not have caused severe lag, failures and down time that would have been far more difficult to explain to all your new customers - the railing about an unfinished, unready game would have been deafening. This Is The Only Solution.

 

Keep up the Good Work

The Shturmovik looks incredible and I cannot wait to explore the map flying it day and night.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Rama
removing inflamatory content

[DD_bongodriver]

I am sure there would have been NO WAY for you to measure the load of a sudden, complete release of this simulator that would not have caused severe lag, failures and down time that would have been far more difficult to explain to all your new customers - the railing about an unfinished, unready game would have been deafening. This Is The Only Solution.

 

 

You just explained it in a sentence, why would it be difficult for the devs?

[Missionbug]

Hello guys, first off the latest footage is superb the IL-2 looks outstanding.

 

 

This however is outrageous:  " Off-line login will become available later."

 

I appreciate that there would be restrictions of some kind, but the above is penalising me as an offline player, I never have been online and do not see why I must wait to have any access to the sim however limited the nature of it is.

 

This should have been outlined before I paid up front for the Premium addition, at least then I would not be feeling as dissapointed as I do at the moment.

 

So I must ask why exactly will I not get access?

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[FuriousMeow]

Because that just says off-line login. Everyone has to log into the login server, then single player and multiplayer options are available.

[racingslippers]

I really appreciate the serious attitude to getting things right.

 

Im very happy to help if all it entails is money now rather than in the future and a bit of early flight-time.

 

I'll leave the videos to the experts!

 

 

[mudpuppy]

Jason, et al; thanks for the clarifying points about early access.  I know that I paid for a full flight sim.....when it is ready to be released as a full flight sim with the bonus of having early access to the Alpha/Beta to help test the product and my own system. 

Looking back on how it was framed in the description for early access, I see my initial disappointment was my own (wishful) interpretation.  

 

Looking forward to November!!!

Derek

[Panzerlang]

I'm not impressed. While a 72 hours per week online only is technically "early access" I believe the term, under these limits, to have been disingenuous. I have little interest in yet another online arcade experience, which is essentially what this will be (dogfight server), with no allowance made for those who would have prefered to kick back and test offline in their own time (24/7). Even if that meant sight-seeing due to the AI not being ready.

 

But whatever.

[BigMotor]

Excellent update! Looking forward to alpha testing with a good team of mature individuals.

 

Let's show the developers how good we can be at making this sim a huge success.

[dkoor]

I think I get most of this.

 

Anyhow, nice update with Shturmo...

[Mmaruda]

Limiting this to 3 days a week is a bad idea and people will get angry, not to mention nobody is going to pay $100 for this kind of early access once the pre-orders are done and a lot of people who were thinking of buying before the 11th have one less thing to worry about now. And the choice of days is the stupidest thing of them all - nothing like letting people play only during the week... WHEN THEY ARE WORKING. Considering that I work mostly night shifts and in that time I have other stuff to do during the day, I will hardly be able to play the BoS beta.

[FuriousMeow]

I'm not impressed. While a 72 hours per week online only is technically "early access" I believe the term, under these limits, to have been disingenuous. I have little interest in yet another online arcade experience, which is essentially what this will be (dogfight server), with no allowance made for those who would have prefered to kick back and test offline in their own time (24/7). Even if that meant sight-seeing due to the AI not being ready.

 

But whatever.

 

 

This says nothing of "dogfight" server only: At the beginning (first 2-3 months) only online play will be available - you will be temporarily connected to our server so we could gather all valuable technical data about the game's performance.

 

You just have to login to the login server to run the client and any SP/MP capabilities.

[falstaff]

Jason said:

 

So, what you get is a calculated, closely managed early access program

 

Exactly as you'd think: a logical, rational answer that makes sense.  People who dislike this have every right to say so, and have said so. Ok, some might find it a little later than they'd like, but launching toys from prams and drama-queening - or worse, pretend-drama-queening for the sake of resurrecting past drama-queen glories - is just plain daft. And it wont be worn here, thank gawd.

 

It's about creating a managable, controlled testing environment, as anybody involved in software dev (or half a commonsense clue) can imagine. It may not suit everybody (some aspects of this game dont suit me at all, so what...)....but testing means limiting the variables. Just as with piloting a plane...anyone with half a clue doesn't put themself into a dangerous situation, with known pit-falls, deliberately. Thankfully, this place has its share of great pilots.

 

Some sort of bunfight was inevitable at some point, so I guess now is as good a time as any. So the usual folks can get it out of the system (or have it got out of their system for them). Hey ho.

 

I wish the devs good luck. Whether this was the right way to manage testing I can't say - but I trust the instinct that says they have a formulation, and so far I see no evidence at all to second-guess them. Look at the available comparisons with flight-sim dev. Exactly.

Edited October 25, 2013 by falstaff

[FuriousMeow]

not to mention nobody is going to pay $100 for this kind of early access once the pre-orders are done

 

Would you prefer to pay $110 on release day?

 

You won't be playing so much as hoping the game works during this alpha period.

Edited October 25, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[DD_bongodriver]

Oden, sadly yes, there are members here who revel in such belittling if you dare have a negative thought about BoS, they reflect badly on this community with their aggressive attempts to supress it.

[Roast]

With all due respect, I have never encountered a paid alpha access that limited my time to certain days of the week.

Well, there's a first for everything, because now you have

[DD_bongodriver]

Well, there's a first for everything, because now you have

 

Whoop de doo.

[FlyingNutcase]

Amazing gun and mantle on the IL2 - as close to photorealistic as anyone could hope for.

 

Regarding the Tues-Thurs initial "play time" - of course it makes sense to release new software in manageable chunks. Personally I only have any real free time at the weekends but I'll squeeze in an hour or two on those nights and look forward to more access later. Responsible development.