Developer Diary, Part 38

[=RvE=Windmills]

This is alpha

1920x1080.jpg

 

The project is just not ready to access 24/7. No other reason why 24/3. It makes no sense to take offense. And even more so to experience unpleasant emotions

 

 

It does actually, since this is paid beta access and you made absolutely no mention of it being very limited when you were selling it.

 

Don't be indignant about this, people paid money to be able to play it in beta. I know it was the main selling point for me, and I know for others. There was no other real reason to get the premium aside from the beta access.

 

At this point adding "btw, only 72 hours during the middle of the week" is very misleading.

[FuriousMeow]

No one knew the days of the week, which are also subject to change through the duration of the early access period.

 

Focus on this: Does it mean that it’s going to be time-limited or opened for short periods?

 

That is pretty straightforward, it will be limited. No one knew the days, and they probably chose those for the initial period so that they can keep things as stable as possible. As has been said, weekend availability does no one any good if it goes down all weekend.

[1./JG42_SchwarzerPrinz]

Getting access to an alpha version implies by defnition that the game content will be uncomplete, restricted or specifically designed in a way that the developers can harvest data from the guinea pigs - that is the pilots flying said version.

 

Development of combat flight simulators has always been a history of delays, problems and unexpected or unwished results. Preordering IL-2 BOS means that you jump right in the middle of this (sometimes unpleasant) ongoing process. So I sympathize with the grief all around here, but only within limits. You knew you bought access to an incomplete game being under construction. So what did you expect? Of course the developers could have made this point somewhat clearer. There is very little information on the homepage on this special topic. But since we are constantly reading a Developer Diary, there is enough intrinsic evidence that we won't get our hands on a final product.

[Jaws2002]

You didn't pay double for early access. You're paying less for early access. Did you expect a fully complete game? Because we aren't getting a game that's even 50% complete. It's been stated before that access will be limited to certain days initially.

Please, when you pay for my game then tell me to cool down and enjoy it as you want. I paid for a product they advertized, months in advance.

I didn't post that to ge feedback from those fans that are happy with with it, but for the developers that sold me the product.

you are just creating unneeded noise by geting betwen developer and other customers.

games compete for our free time. I pay for what I can enjoy in MY FREE TIME, not your free time of developer's free time.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Jaws2002

[DD_bongodriver]

No one knew the days of the week, which are also subject to change through the duration of the early access period.

 

Focus on this: Does it mean that it’s going to be time-limited or opened for short periods?

 

That is pretty straightforward, it will be limited. No one knew the days, and they probably chose those for the initial period so that they can keep things as stable as possible. As has been said, weekend availability does no one any good if it goes down all weekend.

 

Focus on someone's question?

[FuriousMeow]

They chose to answer that question for a reason, out of thousands of other ones.

 

I'll also make it easier for you bongo:

 

Does it mean that it’s going to be time-limited or opened for short periods?

 

Possibly. This early access is also the very first public test. It’s for you to enjoy it and for us to analyze and examine it.

Edited October 25, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Pupo]

i just can't really understand why limit it?

 

why can't we just play the last version during from friday to monday?

 

i'm not a dev, so if you could give me a plausible motive for this it would make this update easier to swallow. 

Edited October 25, 2013 by E69_Pupo

[BFsSmurfy]

I`m in the play all weekend, fix the problems with the game servers offline in the week camp tbh. Surely the more info that can be collected the more polished the final product will be, I can`t see how limiting access to weekdays is the best way to gain info when many more players are available to play at weekends (I`m tired from staring at mechanisms in 3d at work on Inventor, the evening is when I give my eyes a break ready for the next day at work). Just my opinion.

[Krig]

The amount of kicking and screaming is amazing. I haven't been involved in any flight sim community befor so this might just be the norm. But wow, just wow.

 

 

 

 

Keep up the good work

[DD_bongodriver]

The amount of kicking and screaming is amazing. I haven't been involved in any flight sim community befor so this might just be the norm. But wow, just wow.

 

 

 

 

Keep up the good work

 

 

Oh......you're gonna love being part of a flight sim community, trust me, the stuff that happens here pale into insignificance compared to past forums.

[BFsSmurfy]

The amount of kicking and screaming is amazing. I haven't been involved in any flight sim community befor so this might just be the norm. But wow, just wow.

 

 

 

 

Keep up the good work

It was worse on the banana forum mate, that place was like a monkey house at feeding time!!!

[6S.Manu]

Come on guys, it's still going to be a early beta (or late alpha).

 

I don't think we all paid mainly to enjoy of the early access (a limited or full one).

 

Personally I've pre-ordered this project to support this team. To prove, by the tag, that I'm one of the guys who trusted the devs and probably without the help of many other like me the project could never being completed.

I see the early access realistically as a BONUS.

[1./JG42_SchwarzerPrinz]

i just can't really understand why limit it?

 

why can't we just play the last version during from friday to monday?

 

i'm not a dev, so if you could give me a plausible motive for this it would make this update easier to swallow. 

 

I'm no dev either, but I've experienced the development of several games, being inside closed beta teams with some of those.

Running such a test ist work. Hard, expensive work. You invest time to get the server infrastructure up and running. An infrastructure, which more often than not lag the power and stamina to endure heavy workload. You invest money to pay server admins and traffic.

Finally you have to carefully review all the data mined from such a session. In the end it is a huge investment that has to pay off.

 

I'm not trying to blindly argue in favour of the development team, but they are entitled to being cut some slack.

[EAF51_Nepe]

Fantastic video, I felt the urge to get in the cockpit and fly!

 

The developers are doing a great job, they have all my trust to keep doing what they think is best for the final game.

 

Did I say the video looks fantastic?

[SYN_Haashashin]

Great update.

 

Im not worry about the 3 days access at all. Its clear on the update that this is not for the whole Alpha testing period and those days can be changed during the testing period (possibly when master server is stable enought to be without supervision during days). I can fly on weekdays afternoon more than weekends days (mostly only sunday night) that means I will be here posting Im angry and all that had been said? No, I will just wait untill the days are changed again and thats it.

[ST_ami7b5]

i just can't really understand why limit it?

 

why can't we just play the last version during from friday to monday?

 

i'm not a dev, so if you could give me a plausible motive for this it would make this update easier to swallow. 

 

OK, I'll try (being an IT analyst for few decades

 

If you start testing a new software you won't put it straight to a full stress load right from the start (full stress load means weekends in this context).

This solution (Tue-Thu) would put the system to stress test gradually - in the mornings just retired/homeless/holliday/... /would join.

Then more and more people would start playing, which makes testing more manageable for the devs IMO.

[99th_Jaguar]

Oh......you're gonna love being part of a flight sim community, trust me, the stuff that happens here pale into insignificance compared to past forums.

 Does this give you pleasent thoughts or PTSD type nightmares.

Forums: IL2 Maddox General Discussion

Don't look if you can not stomach the visuals! 

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/663872-Forum-Rules

A sad day indeed! S!

[Rama]

I had just a quick read and didn't get it... NO offline in the early access?

This means I won't be free to play around, take my time and just enjoy it on my own, but I'll be forced to join a server, where somebody will shoot me down within the first 20 seconds?

Is that correct?

No it's not. It means you have to connect to the game server for every mode of play you will have access to (as for RoF in the initial release). That means you will have to connect online if you want to play solo (if there are solo mission in the first early access release), in order for the server to eventually update your game version to the last available and at the end to gather statistices on your play (to help development).

[Shea]

I'm not trying to blindly argue in favour of the development team, but they are entitled to being cut some slack.

Cut them some slack.WHY?They lied and didnt tell us that their was a time period on when we could play

[Freycinet]

Oh, you meant the post that there would "possibly" be "events".

 

I thought you meant that there was a comment that stated that it will be limited to work days only.

 

You wilfully misrepresented that quote. The question was whether there would be time limits and the reply was "possibly".

[JtD]

Cut them some slack.WHY?They lied and didnt tell us that their was a time period on when we could play

They didn't lie. I sympathize with your point of view but you're taking it too far. They said that early access will be in autumn. It will be, though limited for now. Autumn isn't over yet.

[DD_bongodriver]

Anyway, despite Furious being furious, some people are rightly perturbed about finding out at such a late stage about the details of a limitation which was 'not' clearly stated during dev updates, sure we were primed for limited access but no mention it would be slap bang in a timeframe where the least people would conveniently be able to do it, I personally can live with the decision but have every sympathy for those who don't like it and don't feel other members here should be chastising any of them for it.

[=RvE=Windmills]

You wilfully misrepresented that quote. The question was whether there would be time limits and the reply was "possibly".

 

That means absolutely nothing though.

 

Certainly an extremely restrictive time frame of 3 days midweek is completely different than a couple of hours of downtime daily, or 1 or 2 days downtime per week.

 

This information has a huge impact on the value of early access, and coming with this bit of information after thousands of people bought premium is pretty low.

Edited October 25, 2013 by iLOVEwindmills

[dburne]

Cut them some slack.WHY?They lied and didnt tell us that their was a time period on when we could play

 

Hey Shea,

 

Like you I too am disappointed, probably more so than I let on, but saying they lied is really not fair...  

[DD_Crash]

Oh......you're gonna love being part of a flight sim community, trust me, the stuff that happens here pale into insignificance compared to past forums.

Got charts?

[Freycinet]

I didn't post that to ge feedback from those fans that are happy with with it, but for the developers that sold me the product.

 

So, you ask for feedback from the developers by telling them that they lie? - Do you usually have success with that approach when you "want feedback" from people? - How about you calm down instead of insulting people.

 

you are just creating unneeded noise by geting betwen developer and other customers.

 

You are not the only one allowed to comment and post in this forum, you know?

[Pupo]

OK, I'll try (being an IT analyst for few decades

 

If you start testing a new software you won't put it straight to a full stress load right from the start (full stress load means weekends in this context).

This solution (Tue-Thu) would put the system to stress test gradually - in the mornings just retired/homeless/holliday/... /would join.

Then more and more people would start playing, which makes testing more manageable for the devs IMO.

 

 

ok, that seems reasonable, but not for a test process were people paid to get in. but puting test "gradually" means leaving paying customers out. But my question goes more into the lines of why not leave a server running the last version, while the next one is being worked? 

[Rama]

Are you guys for real? Do you think people paid double for the early access to be told when and how to enjoy the product they paid for?

The middle of the week access may be ok for beta testers who get the game for free, not for customers who paid for a product, you advertized will be avilable for them months before the release.

 

What part about paid product you guys do not understand? We play games when we have time and when it's convenient for you may not be convenient for most players. Remember we are not beta free beta testers, we are customers for a service/product you promised.

 

I have limited play time and I want to play this in my own time. What you just told us is not the product you sold us and is not what I paid for.

At this point I'm considering canceling my preorder, since we've been sold a lie.

You paid for a pack containing a game and an early access to it. You will get the game only in Q2 2014, so you can't say nothing now about it corresponding or not to what you paid.

It was clearly said that the condition of early access will be given at some times... that juste happened today. So nobody sold you a lie.

 

Nonody ever sold you a full game that you could play the full game without any restriction during early access. If you believed that, you only believed your own fantasms. And by the way, if you want to play during early access, yes, you agree to be a kind of free beta testern and certainly not the customer of a full undrestricted product... that you will be in Q2 2014.

 

I can understand your frustration to have missunderstood what the early access was about, but nobody sold you a lie.....  and don't repeat that again (moderator's advice).

[Matt]

You wilfully misrepresented that quote. The question was whether there would be time limits and the reply was "possibly".

I never doubted that there would "possibly" be time limits, nor did i wilfully misrepresent that quote (which pretty much means, that you misrepresent my post).

 

I was simply asking Furiousmeow to provide a link that supports this statement of his,

 

 

It's been stated before that access will be limited to certain days initially.

[Rama]

Cut them some slack.WHY?They lied and didnt tell us that their was a time period on when we could play

That's the last time you or anybody else wrongly tell about imaginary dev lie... believe me.

[Freycinet]

Anyway, despite Furious being furious, some people are rightly perturbed about finding out at such a late stage about the details of a limitation which was 'not' clearly stated during dev updates, sure we were primed for limited access but no mention it would be slap bang in a timeframe where the least people would conveniently be able to do it, I personally can live with the decision but have every sympathy for those who don't like it and don't feel other members here should be chastising any of them for it.

 

Ah, so you agree with a forum where several members (Jaws2000 and Shea so far) accuse the developers of lying? - Is that the kind of interaction we should have here? - Is that a good way to tell the developers that we appreciate their UNPRECEDENTED communication with the fans?

 

The brave souls sitting behind their little computer screens and throwing big insults around gratuitously should perhaps step away from the keyboard for a while and engage their brain before posting again.

[=RvE=Windmills]

You paid for a pack containing a game and an early access to it. You will get the game only in Q2 2014, so you can't say nothing now about it corresponding or not to what you paid.

It was clearly said that the condition of early access will be given at some times... that juste happened today. So nobody sold you a lie.

 

Nonody ever sold you a full game that you could play the full game without any restriction during early access. If you believed that, you only believed your own fantasms. And by the way, if you want to play during early access, yes, you agree to be a kind of free beta testern and certainly not the customer of a full undrestricted product... that you will be in Q2 2014.

 

I can understand your frustration to have missunderstood what the early access was about, but nobody sold you a lie.....  and don't repeat that again (moderator's advice).

 

That would've been a great argument had it been listed next to the buy button on the front page.

 

Are you honestly serious when you say that this limited access isn't hugely relevant information, that would've influenced many people's decision to back the product? The only reason to really get premium is beta access.

[1./JG42_SchwarzerPrinz]

Cut them some slack.WHY?They lied and didnt tell us that their was a time period on when we could play

That's one way to put it. Another would be you didn't think about what you were purchasing when you purchased. As I said: Buying pre-release access doesn't entitle you to get final products without limits.

Edited October 25, 2013 by 1./JG42_SchwarzerPrinz

[Shea]

Hey Shea,

 

Like you I too am disappointed, probably more so than I let on, but saying they lied is really not fair...  

But it isnt stated on the pre-order page anything about limited access.This should be changed to let pretencial buyers know the situation of the 72 hour limit.And should be CLEARLY stated upon pre-ordering.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Shea

[=RvE=Windmills]

But it isnt stated on the pre-order page anything about limited access.This should be changed to let pretencial buyers know the situation of the 72 hour limit

 

This is most of the point. While 24/7 permanent uptime would be a naive expectation, 3 days midweek is important enough to warrant having it in big bold letters under the premium information.

[ush]

 

It was clearly said that the condition of early access will be given at some times...

 

 

 

 

out of curiosity, where was that condition stated during the purchase process?

[dburne]

But it isnt stated on the pre-order page anything about limited access.This should be changed to let pretencial buyers know the situation of the 72 hour limit

 

Yes but at the same time it is not exactly stated one would get 24/7 early access - see where I am going with that? It was obviously this early access would be beta or even alpha, not finished product.

Hey, nothing wrong with expressing disappointment - I already have as I am very disappointed - but we really should do it in a respectful manner, else we give us disappointed founders a bad image

 

Hey one never knows, if they see how many are disappointed ( they won't bother reading harsh posts, and they will probably get deleted anyway), might change the direction at some point...

Edited October 25, 2013 by dburnette

[Shea]

out of curiosity, where was that condition stated during the purchase process?

Its wasnt

[=RvE=Windmills]

Yes but at the same time it is not exactly stated one would get 24/7 early access - see where I am going with that? It was obviously this early access would be beta or even alpha, not finished product.

Hey, nothing wrong with expressing disappointment - I already have as I am very disappointed - but we really should do it in a respectful manner, else we give us disappointed founders a bad image

 

Yes, but by not stating anything it is implied that the restrictions wouldn't significantly affect your choice of buying it.

 

This degree of restriction very, very clearly does.

[theOden]

.. While 24/7 permanent uptime would be a naive expectation..

Why?