Developer Diary, Part 38

[HagarTheHorrible]

Just to add full marks to Bearcat for his thread succinctly summing up the issue and responses from the dev's

[Livai]

I also didn't assumed early access meant full access, and so wasn't disapointed. But I agree it wouldn't hurt to give more precision by changing "early access" with "early limited access" on the description.

I'm not sure it would make disapointed peoples less disapointed though.

 

Anyway, 12th of November is near, and if I read well the diary, the extension of the access will follow a few weeks after... and most probably this whole discussion will then look like a thunderstorm in a glass of water.

 

I think that others assumed with early access not full access,too.

 

But the point is --->

 

 1. Choose days for early access where is pretty clear that others are at work or are far away from home. 

 2. Time Zone locked Server for the limited 72 hours early access using Russian Time, for example.

 2.1. Means that Russian players can enjoy the full 72 hours and players from other countries or time zone have the disadvantage that they get very less hours access to the game, for example New York players get only 57 hours access. Is

        that fair?

 

That are two important points that are a big disadvantage for others. That should be not forget. And I don't like it!  

[DD_Arthur]

 

 

 

 

  

 2. Time Zone locked Server for the limited 72 hours early access using Russian Time, for example.

 2.1. Means that Russian players can enjoy the full 72 hours and players from other countries or time zone have the disadvantage that they get very less hours access to the game, for example New York players get only 57 hours access. Is

        that fair?

 

That are two important points that are a big disadvantage for others. That should be not forget. And I don't like it!  

 

Eh?  How does 72 hours at GMT +4 equal 57 hours in New York.  Does the US have less minutes in their hour than the rest of the world?

[Livai]

Eh?  How does 72 hours at GMT +4 equal 57 hours in New York.  Does the US have less minutes in their hour than the rest of the world?

 

A limited hours access to a game is controlled by the server that gives you access to game. The server is locked to a specific time zone. Here would be the Russian Time Zone that the Server is locked and control the 72 hours limited access for everyone. 

 

How to calculate your Access Time:

 

1. Follow the Link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=166 to use the Time Zone which the Server would use to control your Access Time to the Game.

2. Look at Current Time and the date from the link

3. Now look at your clock and your calendar

4. Calculate (Current Time from the link) - ( Current Time from your clock) = (Time Zone difference)

5. Calculate (Time Zone difference) * (3 days) = (3 days Time Zone difference)

6. Calculate (72 hours) - (3 days Time Zone difference) = Your Real Time Access to the Game

 

Back to your Question: ---> Sure US would have less minutes in their hour than the rest of the world if the Server using the Russian Time Zone.

[DD_Crash]

So you really mean  USEABLE hours?

[Livai]

So you really mean  USEABLE hours?

 

YES

[Veteran66]

I hope you all know the difference between Alpha/ Beta testing and gaming.

 

Alpha/ Beta testing is work for the developer

 

gaming you can it at Q2 2014

[Bearcat]

I hope you all know the difference between Alpha/ Beta testing and gaming.

 

Alpha/ Beta testing is work for the developer

 

gaming you can it at Q2 2014

 

+1

 

Also in light of that consider that the devs have to do this on a schedule tat allows them to work on the data they are collecting. A scedule that works best for them and that means like it or not that the schedule would cater best to people who live where they live or close to it initially.

[AndyJWest]

@ Superghostboy - 

 

72 hours is 72 hours, regardless of time zones. If the 72 hours starts later in your local time zone, it finishes later too. Your calculation is completely meaningless.  

[Livai]

@ Superghostboy - 

 

72 hours is 72 hours, regardless of time zones. If the 72 hours starts later in your local time zone, it finishes later too. Your calculation is completely meaningless.  

 

False, because I have the experience that Server running Time Zone locked. The experience I have from Halo Reach Beta for example where all who live inside the PacificTime Zone could download and unlock the beta earlier and play it longer than others who not live inside the Pacific Time Zone. 

[BMA_West]

3/7 or 76 hours = temporary = period unknown pending day to day dev evaluation

turn it head to tail/upside down wont change a single thingy

neither will stating it standing on your head, bungee jumping, pulling 9Gs

 

nor making yourself & ppl around miserable

like your wife, you kids, Rama, FSM, BC

 

however it may help trying to live with it

one can try biting on it's tongue or applying a hammer to it's thumb

and you will forget it for 5 minutes (if less you did not lean into it, try harder next time)

 

or going for a big walk about, a night on the town with your family or friends

watch some backed up movies/books

surprise wifie and wash the windows, take out the dustbin like Feathered

collect brownie points to spend soon

 

getting a life?

[BraveSirRobin]

False, because I have the experience that Server running Time Zone locked. The experience I have from Halo Reach Beta for example where all who live inside the PacificTime Zone could download and unlock the beta earlier and play it longer than others who not live inside the Pacific Time Zone. 

 

What does that have to do with BoS?

[Dakpilot]

" 2.1. Means that Russian players can enjoy the full 72 hours and players from other countries or time zone have the disadvantage that they get very less hours access to the game, for example New York players get only 57 hours access. Is

        that fair?"

 

IS it fair?, is it fair i live in a different time zone, is it fair I have to get up at some ungodly hour to watch a Grand Prix held in Japan, Is it fair New Zealand gets to celebrate new year before me,

 

Is it fair when an American game is released and is at an inconvenient time for Russian customers?

 

Not fair but just LIFE

 

Cheers Dakpilot

[Livai]

What does that have to do with BoS?

 

Just experience that not all get 72 hours.......................

[DB605]

"Special wallpapers and in-game screenshots will be published on the forum later (possibly today) - we worked hard on this one."

 

Any pics to show yet?

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

Eh?  How does 72 hours at GMT +4 equal 57 hours in New York.  Does the US have less minutes in their hour than the rest of the world?

 

 

Less seconds in the minute but only in NYC.  That is where the expression "New York Minute" comes from.

[M4rgaux]

I don't quite get you're timezone reasoning, I've never seen something that defy logic that much Oo

 

The game will unlock at servertime and lock at servertime +72. The only difference you'll get might be 50 to 100ms due to lag.

 

I think you still deserve an award for counting the amount of playable time of the game in a far far far far far far far far far far far far away galaxy where time apply differently.

 

(no offence intended)

[AndyJWest]

Superghostboy, you can come up with all the bizarre 'calculations' you like. The simple fact is that you being in a different time zone can't affect how long the server is running. If it is online for 72 hours in Moscow, it will be online for 72 hours in Tokyo, or New York, or Timbuktu. When they turn it on, it is on everywhere, and when they turn it off, it goes off everywhere. At the same time. 

[Requiem]

That timezone argument reminds me about the people who come out of the woodwork complaining about daylight savings time. "The extra hour of sunlight will make my curtains fade faster!!"

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

What the Hell???

 

Sorry chaps.  Honey...?!

 

Just hand in your man card on the way out mate.

[Emgy]

Say the login server goes up 09:00 in Moscow/MockBa tuesday morning. Pavel and Anya get off work and play BOS tuesday afternoon and night. Same on wednesday and thursday. Server shuts down 0900 friday morning.

 

They got 3 full afternoons&nights to play, and they can stay up late and play until friday morning if they want.

 

In New York, the server is up at 01:00 tuesday. Maggie and Butch have the option to stay up late and play until dawn of tuesday, if they want. On tue, wed, thu, they come home from work and play for 3 full afternoons&nights. The server goes down 0100 fri.

 

In short, Pavel and Anya get 3 afternoons and nights, and they can play all night until friday morning, if they want.

Maggie and Butch get 3 afternoons and nights, and they can play all night until tuesday morning.

 

If the server instead goes up at 1500 tue in Moscow, it's up on 0700 tue in NYC, and shuts down 0700 fri, only difference is that Maggie and Butch can pull an all-nighter on thu->fri instead of mon->tue.

 

 

Once you have to deal with family logistics, you learn to get your head around this kind of scheduling... managing that is like being a squadron CO (or XO if you're the guy!)

Edited October 28, 2013 by Calvamos

[falstaff]

Veteran66...I was thinking the same thing.

 

If feelings run so high over limited early access, it makes you wonder how they will react to alpha code? (early debug?)

 

I think the devs would be wise to set out expectations early on. Not everyone is going to know what to expect, and some are going to be disappointed.

 

This is why I've decided not to take part early on. Done it before, it can be a sobering and banal trial-by-software that bears no resemblance to the finished product. I'd have no idea what to expect here, but suspect the code will be in reasonable shape in terms of memory handling/leaks/exception handling etc. I have confidence in the devs (the limited early access was the only mis-step so far IMO, and not terminal)

[7./Sch.G.2_Stublerone]

Hey guys, what about the F4 skin to cool some down here? I would like it as a small candy!  

[BraveSirRobin]

Just experience that not all get 72 hours.......................

 

I'm pretty sure that 72 hours is the same length of time all over the planet.

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Who is going to be playing for 2 hrs straight let alone 72? I got this condition where if i sit down for more than 1 hr these leach type things start sucking my time away from the computer.......

Parenthood. Its awesome.........

[BraveSirRobin]

The only people with reason to complain is anyone playing BoS on the International Space Station.  Earth time moves more slowly for them due to spacetime differences, so they will (theoretically) perceive the 72 hours on Earth as being slightly shorter.  The time difference would be too small for them to actually notice during that 72 hour span, but, if this forum is any indication, I'm sure that won't stop them from complaining about it.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

The only people with reason to complain is anyone playing BoS on the International Space Station.  Earth time moves more slowly for them due to spacetime differences, so they will (theoretically) perceive the 72 hours on Earth as being slightly shorter.  The time difference would be too small for them to actually notice during that 72 hour span, but, if this forum is any indication, I'm sure that won't stop them from complaining about i

 

 

 

Lag could be a problem for online.

[HagarTheHorrible]

Lag could be a problem for online.

 

Which version 1, 7 or 9 and why just the Lag, surely the Mig would be just as bad ?

Edited October 28, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[Jaws2002]

The Premium was advertised and sold as early access. Nobody specified the conditions of the early access, so everyone had their own ideas about what Paid Premium early access means.

 

I tried a bunch of beta, alpha, paid beta and paid alpha software and I had a pretty good understanding what paid early access means in general, in the gaming world.

 

     For  99% of the software out there, including all the ones I've tried, it means getting access to a somewhat functioning software, that may be limited in content, with certain modules not working, with few downtimes here and there. Crashes are expected, missing parts are expected, short periods of downtimes are expected.

     In a flight simulator case, most people that tried other paid early access, can expect, some sort of mission builder, or quick mission builder, limited planeset, limited content, few missions, planes with not finished flight models, limited multiplayer, crashes and downtimes here and there.

 

 Since there was nothing in the preorder adds and preorder page, describing the early access it's normal people to expect something like that, because this is how 90+% of the paid, early access software, is released for the preorder customers.

This are not extravagant expectations. This are not unreasonable expectations. It's so common that it could be considered industry standard.

  

Tuesday to Thursday access only, with no offline, is such an extreme exception in the world of paid early access, that I doubt more than 1% of the preorder customers, (without connections within the development team), expected it.

That's why, this limitation should have been printed with red capital letters in the preorder screen, long before we had a chance to pay for it. This way, anyone that has no time to play during those hours, could make an informed decision to buy or not.

 I work out of town and those days I can't play at all.  So this Premium, lost it's main selling point for me, since the earlier I can try it is maybe Christmas week. But if I can't play it till then, I could just as well get the silver one and save almost half the price.  

 

 As much as so many people here, including some in the development team, try to tell us,( and in some cases even ridicule us) that is beta/alpha, the reason so many people are upset is exactly because they know what  paid beta or paid alpha means.

 

As things stand now, I don't really want the premium in this form.  In my opinion it was misleading the way it was presented to us.  I'll wait a couple of days and if nothing changes, I'll initiate a process to get a refund.  

  On thing I've learned out of this though. I'll never, ever,  preorder anything from this team. I don't need this kind of surprises and I don't want to go through this again, on my own money. Don't want to have the  EULA fine print waved in my face again.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Jaws2002

[BraveSirRobin]

Lag could be a problem for online.

 

I'm sure that 777 will be launching a server into orbit soon after weekend access is opened.

[Stlkrash]

They should REFUND the difference to us period. This is clearly bait and switch. Now all you guys calm down before you go nuts on me. But if you think about it, buy anything else and let them drop something like this on you, and you would be mad also. I agree it's bad business to do this. I can understand "online" to a point, but offline, there is zero excuse for that. Yeah, they have a rank structure like ROF etc, but 72 hours... And then a month later EVERYONE else is in for half the price... Not a real brilliant way to "Grow the community", if you wanted money for BOS you would have gotten more thru a donation program I bet.

 

But this is like buying a new car, and the dealer says "Oh, you can only use it Tuesdays thru Thursdays, and you can only putt it around the parking lot here".  Crazy if you ask me..

 

"On thing I've learned out of this though. I'll never, ever,  preorder anything from this team. I don't need this kind of surprises and I don't want to go through this again, on my own money. Don't want to have the  EULA fine print waved in my face again."

 

I second that one for sure. Never again. This and Biohemia have really kinda burned PC gaming.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Stlkrash

[BraveSirRobin]

Stlkrash, you might have an argument if they were charging more for alpha access than for the finished game, but they're charging less.  So your argument loses from every angle.

[Stlkrash]

No it doesn't Have you not looked at the prices? 89.99 and 49.99.... Did I miss something here? So we early payers paid an extra 45 or so for what again? To have it like we all said dropped on us we can pay for it but not use it....

http://il2sturmovik.com/

 

big pic down there, bout half way ...

Edited October 28, 2013 by Stlkrash

[BraveSirRobin]

The price for the premium edition is going to be $100.

[AcesHigh]

Everyday I end up being surprised at something, then that night telling my wife I've seen it all and nothing else is going to surprise me.  Next day rinse and repeat, I'm surprised again.   Today was one such day.   I quote from BraveSirRobin above

 

"I'm pretty sure that 72 hours is the same length of time all over the planet."

 

I think that's a safe assumption unless measuring atomic time ....  and that fact you have to re-assure others by answering their questions in this way sort of scares me (about the others)!

Edited October 28, 2013 by AcesHigh

[Jaws2002]

72 or 48 hours,  means nothing to me. I can't play those days at all.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Jaws2002

[Stlkrash]

Ok, lets be real here, if the early 90 dollar payers are pushed back then the 50 dollar players should be pushed back.  Now here is the prediction, come Mid Nov, I bet we get bad news again. So at this point its almost worth it for entertainment purposes... LOL

 

"72 or 48 hours,  means nothing to me. I can't play those days at all."

 

See so, some people will be paying up, For nothing. It's just all around bad.  A good idea would be to come clean with the future "Surprises" and let us deal with it as we want to, be it ride it out or refund.

 

I know a little neg but sorry, these dev houses have gone off the deep end. I like IL2 and ROF great stuff, don't burn the people on it like that. If it's a server issue, there are plenty of farms like mine around the planet that will pitch in to help out. We set ROF as it came up in alpha with neob (prior to 777) way back in it's early stages.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Stlkrash

[76SQN-J0NJ0N]

TBH I am a bit of a 777 fanboy, but I'm a little disappointed by this decision. I guess what it means is that the AI isn't ready yet so no qmb, and the multiplayer willl need some nursing. Ah well.

 

I think on balance it's been worth it so that all the guys who enjoy nothing better than a good moan about flight sims have actually got something to moan about. It can't be easy running around constantly picking holes in an unreleased product, so I guess we should be happy for them.

 

One final note - I hope that after the shouting has died down they'll announce that the time limits will slowly be phased out as the game gets closer to completion, and maybe hand us some SP bits. 

[Stlkrash]

This is ALL A PLOT by 777 and the Wives / GF's.... I think they have a facebook community or something.  I smell shananighans!!!!

 

A PLOT I TELL YA !!

Edited October 28, 2013 by Stlkrash

[Rama]

All these arguments have allready been given dozens of times.

No need to push them again and again.