Developer Diary, Part 38

[J2_Steve]

I'm disappointed, I paid for early access to the game.

I'd imagined it would be access to the game in the rough. A first look at what we are going to get.

For that I pad out $90, which is not a small sum of money. To me anyway, a married man with 2 kids and sole earner. $90 is quite a sum and I didn't take paying up front lightly.

 

To now find out that access will be restricted is not what i imagined. I won't be able to do the tuesday to thursday slot, I haven't the time. What with work and family, there is no way I can do it. At best I'll get a 10-15 mins for a quick look once access is open. But I'll not get a good look at it. 

 

If I'd known what the plan was in the beginning I'd not have paid up. I didn't pay to be a beta tester following a testing plan, I paid for early access and when i paid there was no mention of restricted access and it still doesn't mention it on the pre-order page.

 

777 need to be more upfront with the detail.

Edited October 27, 2013 by EAF92_Brigstock

[Siegfried]

I'd say you've been allowed to say plenty. And as long as your money is in your pocket, why would you even worry about the limited time access?

 

My money is in my pocket yet because of what I see here. But if you're going to expel me, I'm going to spend elsewhere. And no is with you I have to talk to pay my money. Only with people of good education and modes. Anyway I do not going to get flame for you

 

Well, maybe my analogy is not well written. "Barrier language". This is what I said when I came here.

 

Correction and extension of my last example:

 

Example: pay me $ XX.XXX by a chassis car with a motor put in, and then after you have paid me, I'll give you a car only for 3 days you will not Be Able to drive ... but do not worry, That Within 2/3 months I let you use 24/7. And if you complain I put you in the face a paper that I had somewhere hidden by ... I as you keep complaining, I go and leave you in the hands of my minions to call you childish or naive.

 

I hope the moderators take into account that if I go into a restaurant, and at the entrance there are all kinds of obstacles and people with knives ready to beat me up, do not come in to spend my money there.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Rama
answer to previous inflamatory comment

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

 

Example: pay me $ XX.XXX by a car, and then I'll give you a car only for 3 days you will not be able to drive ... but do not worry, that within 2/3 months I let you use 24/7.

 

 

That's really an awkard analogy, and fails as a comparison as when you buy a car it's not beeing built. It's kind of finished... no?

 

Even though the comparison is far from "spot on", if you had chosen to compare with buying a car that isn't finished -  taken when mid into it's build from the assembly line, lacked engine, electronics and stuff - maybe your comparison could fly.

 

Sure, you may sit in your soon to be ready built car, but if you want it to be finished, you have to tow the car to the assembly line .. and yes..having no access to it once and awhile for the factory worker to finish it.

 

And no, it's not a language thing.. it just a comparison that does not work; in any language.

Edited October 27, 2013 by F19_Klunk

[nevervne]

I paid $90 to play the game early. I can't imagine all the others who are unable to play the game now because of this. Any way to cancel the preorder and I'll buy the other version? I'm considering it due to the fact I paid extra money for apparently no reason.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Rama
removing some useless comment

[Siegfried]

Change car with other thing in BETA mode.... The analogy is correct. Is money that I paid and then the condition change without warn on page where I push the BUY button.

 

A good listener knows what I mean. Register failures as commas or if the car is blue or yellow or a toaster or BETA of a game does not change what I say, for this is an example

 

And also intend to bury real concerns among an amalgam of nonsense post...

 

If you don't have this issue, be happy with you.

Edited October 27, 2013 by E69_Siegfried

[Rjel]

I bought it and I don't see it as a huge issue. Again, if you haven't bought it, it shouldn't be an issue for you either.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Rama
removing some inflamatory comment

[Rama]

Change car with other thing in BETA mode.... The analogy is correct.

No the analogy isn't correct.

 

A correct analogy would be:

You are buying a car that will be fully finished in Q2 2014.

If you pay in advance (getting the status of founder of the car), then you'll get 2 bonusses:

1) you pay a little less than you will pay if you purchase the car in Q2 2013

2) you get some limitted right to look at the inside of the car and to try it (drive it in limited condition with some limited functionalities) long before the car is delivered to you at the date of release which is Q2 2014.

[BFsSmurfy]

It`s no point reasoning with him gents,  complaining like you`ve been done a wrong by a limitation on a product that you haven`t bought wtf???, just keep your money mate if your complaining like this about something you haven`t paid for god help us if you buy it and something isn`t to your liking. The internets full of these sorts, it gives them the voice they don`t have anywhere else.

 

"The analogy is correct. Is money that I paid" no no no you haven`t paid anything have yah???

Edited October 27, 2013 by BFsSmurfy

[dburne]

I paid $90 to play the game early. I can't imagine all the others who are unable to play the game now because of this. Any way to cancel the preorder and I'll buy the other version? I'm considering it due to the fact I paid extra money for apparently no reason.

 

On behalf of one of the those  that will not be able to play during the limited access period,  I appreciate the sentiment. I was looking forward to spending my weekends, especially now that my outside chores are pretty much over for the year, with the early access.

 

I feel pretty certain refunds for those that would strongly desire would be out of the question at this point in the development.

[Siegfried]

I 'm not complaining , I took precautions , but they sent me email and facebook advertising leading to equivocation .

 

I did not bother to write in another language for others to inform me how pleased they are with their purchase. That I have read several pages back without having to ask.

 

Just wrote to show my concern as a potential customer . And you are another customer like me. But I'll be careful from now on before taking my credit card with 777 .

 

@ Rama : Yes but at one point they did not say that the limitation would be in the time that I use to play. I have no experience or most other so I could not even ask for that matter. Only other Betas nothing happens even close . Like the vast majority of others who have paid . These are the things that are out of the norm which must be alerted , and the BUY button page just have good words .

 

With good or bad examples , that's my point , I hope you finally understand .

 

Anyway I see only answering other customers who know what I know. And I already lost too much time unsuccessfully trying to learn about the product they want to sell me .

 

With over 3000 checks $ 90 in his pocket, for what would they worry about my $ 90 . That is what you have made me understand.

[AnaRasanen]

Just wrote to show my concern as a potential customer . And you are another customer like me. But I'll be careful from now on before taking my credit card with 777 .

 

It's hard to go wrong with the Standard Edition. It is cheaper now than when the game is released.

 

Don't exaggerate this alpha thing. When the full game is released no one will even remember this kind of little mishappening. Just play Rise of Flight and you'll see what kind of company 777 Studios is. The final product will most likely be even more excellent than RoF is and if you don't buy Standard Edition now at the cheaper price you will regret it later.

[J2_Steve]

No the analogy isn't correct.

 

A correct analogy would be:

You are buying a car that will be fully finished in Q2 2014.

If you pay in advance (getting the status of founder of the car), then you'll get 2 bonusses:

1) you pay a little less than you will pay if you purchase the car in Q2 2013

2) you get some limitted right to look at the inside of the car and to try it (drive it in limited condition with some limited functionalities) long before the car is delivered to you at the date of release which is Q2 2014.

That's not correct either

 

As I understood it when I parted with $90

 

1) I would get a little off the retail price buy paying in advance

2) I would get early access to the game in whatever shape it was in.

 

Point 2 is the real issue. It's not really early access is it, not in the way it was sold to us. It should have read "we are developing a game and if you want to back us we will allow you to beta test the game for us if you pay us $90"

If I had known I was paying for limited access beta testing I would not have put $90 down.

[Rama]

That's not correct either

It is... reread carrefully

 

As I understood it when I parted with $90

 

1) I would get a little off the retail price buy paying in advance

2) I would get early access to the game in whatever shape it was in.

So you didn't understood that what you bought with the $89.99 was the game itself (that those buying it later will have for a more expensive price)? Then I'm glad to tell you that for this amount you will have the full game in Q2 2014.

The other points are bonusses that you get because you bought the game long time before the release.

 

Point 2 is the real issue. It's not really early access is it, not in the way it was sold to us. It should have read "we are developing a game and if you want to back us we will allow you to beta test the game for us if you pay us $90"

You're twisting the facts there. Nobody ask you to beta-test the game (it was even precised it's not a beta-test), and nobody asked you any money for a playtest also not asked.

Maybe it wouldn't have hurt if more precision was added. But I'm quite sure that when the pre-order cames, the restrictions the dev team had to bring for a smooth early access were not even known, so it was hard to advertise about unknown stuff. Still... I agree the restrictions could have been anciticipated with a vocable like "early restricted access".

 

If I had known I was paying for limited access beta testing I would not have put $90 down.

Since you had payd nothing for an unexistant beta testing, it's a non-existant worry.

 

Now, I understand your frustration about the limitations of the early access (limitation that were not known before Friday). This isn't a valid reason to distord the facts.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

 

Wings of Russia: Fighters: Stormy Years (1943)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tFuLcqn3Y&list=PL69B0CB4788F64720

 

 

I am curious about the ground crewman pounding on the propeller hub (?) at ~19 minutes.

 

I would like to to know what the maintenance manual said....

 

"Obtain a large stick, approximately 1.2 meters long and 6-10cm in diameter.  Bark-free hardwoods are preferred."

[J2_Steve]

Sorry Rama I don't want to get into an silly argument, I've seen your name on forums for as long as i've been following flightsim forums and that is over 10 years now, I have respect for you.

But while you have been able to accept the announcement I have a hard time accepting it.

I put $90 down for early access to the game, in the belief i would receive a not ready for release version of the game. Able to run it when I pleased.

 

 

I have had people tell me "not to worry you've saved a few dollars on the release price", but I could have put down $49 and saved a lot more.

That extra $40 was precisely to get the game early. Given the restrictions, that won't happen for me. Which is why I feel so cheated.

 

I don't really care for the 190 and will fly the 109 mostly so won't miss the LA5.

 

In hindsight with all the facts we learnt on Friday I would not have gone for the premium access. I would have gone for standard access at best.

Given how I feel at the moment, I probably wouldn't even do that.

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I was curious: in that video the narrator mentioned that the Soviets built ~60,000 fighters durinig WW2.  It made me wonder what Germany's production rates were like.

 

Russia appears to have put together nearly 160,000 aircraft of all types, the UK 132,000, the US over 300,000 and Germany only ~120,000 (I am rounding, of course).  It is tough to overcome those numbers.

[6BLBird-Dog]

Vid looks good ,two weeks sounds good ,limited access ,bit disappointed but fair enough if that's what it takes to analyse the data for improvement  ,Hopefully this will increase to full before the main event in Q2 2014 .Perhaps you could respond to this if it is likely to happen even if some of the planned features are held back a while or till final ?

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Only three days a week??!!  I am opening a vein right now and letting everything drain......meanwhile keeping my tongue planted in my cheek. 

 

 

It was decided that we'll begin with 3 days a week of early access for you – typically from Tuesday through Thursday. They days available to fly may change or be adjusted, but for now this is what we will start with.

When the time is right you will be granted unlimited access to the game with only relatively short server shutdowns that are necessary for regular client updates. But this is still in the future, and we still have much to create.

 

Had this been a pre-order without any early access I still would have paid for the Premium.  I always saw this as a vote of support much like a Kick Starter. 

[dburne]

 

In hindsight with all the facts we learnt on Friday I would not have gone for the premium access. I would have gone for standard access at best.

Given how I feel at the moment, I probably wouldn't even do that.

 

I am with you there, based on what I have seen here since this was posted Friday morning, I regret ever pre-ordering any edition of this sim.

[Rama]

You make me feel old....

I also remember a lot of insightfull posts from you on other forums.

 

But while you have been able to accept the announcement I have a hard time accepting it.

I put $90 down for early access to the game, in the belief i would receive a not ready for release version of the game. Able to run it when I pleased.

That's the main point (the expectation), and the reason why you and others are disapointed with the announce

I think it's quite clear, and if I feel sorry for you (even if I didn't had expectation to play a lot the game early in my free time, so am not disapointed), I can also see the expectation weren't based on promise or extensive dev talks. Yes they also didn't gave insight on these restrictions at pre-order time, but in my opinion, it is because at that time they hadn't enough developped the game to know what was to expected.

So you (and others) are disapointed, this based on expections more based on lack on information than anything else, which lack of information isn't the fault of the developpers, since they also couldn't forecast this at pre-order time. This disapointment is sad... and I'm sure it also disapoint the dev to disapoint peoples... but it's nobody's fault, just the result of the turn of events.

I know that what I'm saying is not of a nature to diminish this disapointment, but maybe understanding its nature and cause will make it a little bit more acceptable... at least that's what I'm wishing.
 

That extra $40 was precisely to get the game early. Given the restrictions, that won't happen for me. Which is why I feel so cheated.

 

I don't really care for the 190 and will fly the 109 mostly so won't miss the LA5.

I understand that in your mind you spent these extra 40$ mostly for early access... but you'll certainly agree with me that an important part of this 40$ purchased you the 190 and the LA-5 (that you don't care to have, but still that's what you bought)

 

In hindsight with all the facts we learnt on Friday I would not have gone for the premium access. I would have gone for standard access at best.

Given how I feel at the moment, I probably wouldn't even do that.

I understand this is your current feeling.

I just hope that in a few weeks (2 weeks for early access and a few week more to have more access time), you'll feel better and find that finally you got what you wanted. I really hope it.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Still no clarification of the early access limitation on the front page.

 

It would be nice to add that so no more people will receive a nasty surprise about it.

[FlatSpinMan]

To all:

This is a sensitive topic now. Moderate your language, avoid being sarcastic. A little joking around might be okay usually but at the moment it just feeds the tension.

We don't need that.

[J2_Steve]

I have now read in other posts that the time limitation is in itself limited and that full access will follow after a few weeks. 

This puts a whole different light on the announcement.

 

I think a more in depth post on the early access program and what we can expect over the next few weeks is in order.

I, like so many, believed the early access would be restricted for months until the game was in a state that it could be released to the public.

 

We need some clarification on the road ahead and our access.

[Bearcat]

Good post Rama.. and I get the angst.. I really do.. I share it.. but we are not in the dev's place.. We do not know where they are in the development but one thing we can be pretty certain of and that is that they are trying to deliver us a decent product ultimately.. Consider what would have happened if they had said.. it is not quite ready yet.. things will be pushed back 2-3 weeks.. We would be dealing with a different level of angst going on around here.

 

But there would be angst.

 

Hopefully the restricted time frame will not be too long.

 

I have now read in other posts that the time limitation is in itself limited and that full access will follow after a few weeks.

This puts a whole different light on the announcement.

 

I think a more in depth post on the early access program and what we can expect over the next few weeks is in order.

I, like so many, believed the early access would be restricted for months until the game was in a state that it could be released to the public.

We need some clarification on the road ahead and our access.

I am sure that clarification is forth coming.. It has been two days since the initial announcement...

[HagarTheHorrible]

Change Germans for developers and enjoy

 

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/mus/beastger.mp3

[HeavyCavalrySgt]

I admit, I am also frustrated by not being able to play during the appointed time periods, and I have no interest at all in playing online - my wife is not well, and I can't do much of anything right now that doesn't have a pause button on it.

 

I suspect a year from now I won't care about the early early access limitation.   Hopefully those limitation will be lifted later and I can play the game before it goes GA, but we shall see.

[Taxman]

My take on the early access is that there would be "alpha" first limited to gold founders to test and report on our experence.  After the "alpha" phase then would come the "beta" phase then the final release.  I signed up to test "alpha" and "beta", and get early access to the completed game, and receive some extra "goodies".     Do I feel I am some how being "cheated"? No.  I am just happy to see a new WWII sim being made  .

[sop]

Don't mean nothing carry on dev team.

[LukeFF]

is it final how far the Il2 pilot is able to lean out during flight with the opened canopy ?

 

No, Loft stated during one of the recent dev update videos that it's still being finalized.

The real stuff:

image.jpg

 

Nice! If the Soviets were consistent with the markings on their firearms, both the gun in the pic and in the BOS screenshot were made at Tula.

[LukeFF]

I am curious about the ground crewman pounding on the propeller hub (?) at ~19 minutes.

 

I would like to to know what the maintenance manual said....

 

"Obtain a large stick, approximately 1.2 meters long and 6-10cm in diameter.  Bark-free hardwoods are preferred."

 

It can also double as a cleaning rod. 

[RickRuskiNZ]

The restricted "on line" times could be affected by time zones, if say the access to the server is 6pm---10pm Europe time then that will mean a lot of other parts of the world because of work or other commitments won't have access. Some founder members who were expecting some "off line" access will certainly be disappointed with the statement from the team that it will be "on line" only? maybe that will change. It seems that the early access system means that founder members will be paying to be "beta" testers until full release.

 

Caveat Emptor

[Feathered_IV]

Hello. This is Feas wife he is away from computer now

It is good that game is only part time. Please make only when he wash windows or take rubbish out and will be better

 

thankyou

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Hello. This is Feas wife he is away from computer now

It is good that game is only part time. Please make only when he wash windows or take rubbish out and will be better

 

thankyou

 

 

LOL

[FlatSpinMan]

Hello. This is Feas wife he is away from computer now

It is good that game is only part time. Please make only when he wash windows or take rubbish out and will be better

 

thankyou

I LOVE this. 

Feathered = Owned

 

Do come back and visit us all again when he's out taking out the rubbish and so on.

나중에 보자

[ST_ami7b5]

^^

 

Note the bullet-proof vest...

Edited October 28, 2013 by ST_ami7b5

[HammerCed]

Guys

 

I think this 3 days thing, is creating a lot of emotion (I would say a bit too much), emotion which in my opinion is proportional to the community’s expectations…

 

777 is working on something all the community was expecting for…  a new good WW2 sim…. That’s what they are trying to achieve and that is why there is so much enthusiasm, frustration and current anger around this project…

 

This 3 days thing (which has been stated is temporary) is not the best news ever I must confess (and it personnaly does not mach my agenda very well as for others)...  but look beyond your first emotional reaction…

 

All this will be forgotten if the game is up to what we are expecting…  

 

If the final game is great, everyone will be happy to have pre-ordered and no one will talk about this 3 days thing anymore …

Edited October 28, 2013 by Rama
Removed some comments that could be seen provocative

[Panzerlang]

Here's what I would have written:

 

"Guys, due to somewhat unforseen circumstances we're really really sorry that we'll have to institute a three-day-per-week-only early access for an interim period. This three-day period will be in the middle of the week as we'll need to have instant access to the data and we don't work weekends (we got families and kids, innit). This interim period will be made as short as humanly possible so we can get the early access to 24/7 ASAP. And once again, our deepest apologies."

 

And as a consolation for those who are unable to make mid-week play, a snazzy little 'wound badge' to go under the founders bar.

Ooh, page get!

[Feathered_IV]

Hello. This is Feas wife he is away from computer now

It is good that game is only part time. Please make only when he wash windows or take rubbish out and will be better

 

thankyou

 

What the Hell???

 

Sorry chaps.  Honey...?!

[BMA_West]

Bearcat, FlatSpinMan, Rama as Blue Line between our community and devs:

                                                    CHAPEAU!

   Well managed there between the devil and the deep blue sea.

May this now cool without laddering ...  

Edited October 28, 2013 by West

[Bearcat]

Hello. This is Feas wife he is away from computer now

It is good that game is only part time. Please make only when he wash windows or take rubbish out and will be better

 

thankyou

 

 

What the Hell???

 

Sorry chaps.  Honey...?!

ROFLMAO!!!

 

 

Bearcat, FlatSpinMan, Rama as Blue Line between our community and devs:

                                                    CHAPEAU!

   Well managed there between the devil and the deep blue sea.

May this now cool without laddering ...

Thank you ...

 

For anyone interested I have pinned the most relevant statements from the devs on this issue to the top of this board until this blows over.. I know some folks are still bent but this too shall pass. I agree with Siggi to a large extent, but that isn't how it went down and it is what it is but he is right.. we need to act as if that is what they did say ..

 

We also need to walk away with the idea that there is a method to their reasoning in doing this. I see this as having one day to look at the initial findings and work out a plan to fix or tweak whatever.. and then getting it done in a timely fashion so that the following week the tweaks can be tested again etc etc.. When you think about it rationally and from a developer stand point and not from a simmer's standpoint this makes a lot of sense because you can bet that knowing the limitations a lot of folks will be trying to make adjustments to get online even if for a limited time to check this out and the devs will have specific blocks of information coming in at regular predictable intervals to work with.. As disappointing as it is from the simmer side.. it makes sense from the dev side.