Developer Diary, Part 38

[Uufflakke]

Just for a change of atmosphere, and as a reminder of what we are actually here to pretend we're doing:

 

Wings of Russia: Fighters: Stormy Years (1943)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tFuLcqn3Y&list=PL69B0CB4788F64720

 

Wings of Russia: Sturmoviks and Frontline Bombers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaU_yuCfWSk&list=PL69B0CB4788F64720

 

Interesting documentary indeed.

The only problem I have with it is the narrator. He t.a.l.k.s.  l.i.k.e  a  r.o.b.o.t.

 

By the way, I always thought that the IL2 rear gunner did have a seat too. Not comfortable but at least something to sit on.

But in that second link I see him kneeling. Did he have to sit on the floor all the time untill coming into action?

 

[HagarTheHorrible]

I suspect this has gone on long enough, everybody has had their tuppence worth and should really just move on and talk about other things like how good the vid looked.

 

Hopefully, come Monday we might and I stress might get a little bit more information about the reasoning, otherwise just live with it. The developers will have noticed the discussion and I'm sure will give it their thought and consideration as to the roll out of the Alpha.

 

Did I mention that I thought the vid looked great ?

[JtD]

But in that second link I see him kneeling. Did he have to sit on the floor all the time untill coming into action?

You can check Il-2:1946 for reference. I'd politely call it a "camping seat". Piece of cloth / a belt from one side through the other.

[Revvin]

I'm disappointed about the 3 day test period, it should have been communicated better when the pre-orders were being taken. I'm in the same boat as a lot of people here being a working adult with family commitments so three days during the week will give me very little time to get into the early access phase.

 

On a positive note the new video for me was the best so far, it looks great.

[SCG_Neun]

 Therefore, we are cautious. We are careful, you are patient = good game.

+1

[Alienax]

great links FlatSpinMan, gets me in the mood for the 12th. 

[Roast]

Despite the negativity floating around now, I just met some BoS members who are happy with this Friday's Update and the early access.

 

 

 

 

I hope it is something to cheer you guys up a bit.

 

My Gawd...

Look who's been raiding the GS site for a nice gif.!

Good to see a fellow reaguurder on this forum

[FlatSpinMan]

Yep, I think most of us would have greatly preferred weekend access, but for a start at least, that's not going to happen.

We still do get some early access, 2 free planes (and they're the La5 and the Fw190 FFS!!!) plus a wangly golden bar under our names, so it ain't all bad.

Plus, whining won't change things, so why bother?

 

Alienax - I just stole them from another thread here, but thanks!

I suspect this has gone on long enough, 

 

Yep. That is a fairly accurate summation of the state of this thread, in my opinion.

[Foobar]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the game will be released a few days after Tuesday, 11th, November. Well, given that access to the servers is going to be Tuesday & Thursday, won't this then mean the game is going to be released over a week later on Tuesday, 19th, November? Can you tell me if this is correct?

 

No. The game will be released in QII 2014.

[Uufflakke]

Look who's been raiding the GS site for a nice gif.!

Good to see a fellow reaguurder on this forum

 

I knew that someone would refer to GeenStijl (GS) sooner or later.

Because of the logo in the top left corner.

 

(But that is too much off topic I would say.)

Edited October 27, 2013 by Uufflakke

[Rodolphe]

...

 

 

 

 

By the way, I always thought that the IL2 rear gunner did have a seat too. Not comfortable but at least something to sit on.

But in that second link I see him kneeling. Did he have to sit on the floor all the time untill coming into action?

 

 

 

On Instagram IL2Sturmovik, There is a picture of the IL-2M rear gunner "seat".

 

http://instagram.com/p/cG69m_S6eW/#

 

http://instagram.com/il2sturmovik/#

 

...

Edited October 27, 2013 by Rodolphe

[PA-Sniv]

Jason even waves an EULA around, effectively saying that they can do whatever they want (The EULA everyone agreed to when they signed up, gives us the authority to do what we are doing). This is an extremely worrying kind of measure to resort to when it comes to communicating with worried costumers. I honestly cannot believe that they decided to even go there.

People who pre-ordered agreed to EULA. A developper "waving an EULA around" when being treated as a liar is in no way worrying: he just states his rights & obligations and customer's rights & obligations. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

People paid for the beta access, that is the critical point here.

 

And premium founders will get the beta access in two weeks, so what critical point?! 

 

Everybody is waiting for unlimited access: worried customers, unworried customers and developpers...

They surely understood some people were disapointed (for whatever reason/misunderstanding) and I'm sure they'll do the best to have their job done in time!

 

Cheers,

Edited October 27, 2013 by PA-Sniv

[[JG2]Fenderalac]

Yep, I think most of us would have greatly preferred weekend access, but for a start at least, that's not going to happen.

We still do get some early access, 2 free planes (and they're the La5 and the Fw190 FFS!!!) plus a wangly golden bar under our names, so it ain't all bad.

Plus, whining won't change things, so why bother?

 

Alienax - I just stole them from another thread here, but thanks!

 

 

Yep. That is a fairly accurate summation of the state of this thread, in my opinion.

Planes are not free, you've payed for them, just like you payed for the early access and the gold bar.

[FlatSpinMan]

No. The game will be released in QII 2014.

 

But the early access to an Alpha or Beta version for Premium Edition Founders (or whatever we are called) will start around Nov 12th, all going well.

 

Does anyone know which one it is, BTW?

Planes are not free, you've payed for them, just like you payed for the early access and the gold bar.

 

Okay. And we got them cheaper than if we had waited.

[Uufflakke]

...

 

 

 

On Instagram IL2Sturmovik, There is a picture of the IL-2M rear gunner "seat".

 

http://instagram.com/p/cG69m_S6eW/#

 

http://instagram.com/il2sturmovik/#

 

...

 

Thanks.

That image says it all.

I searched the web to find an image of the rear gunner's seat but couldn't find one.

Imagine you have to sit on it for a couple of hours with -20 degrees Celsius high up in the air.

[Siegfried]

First of all apologize for my poor English and could not express myself correctly, but the google translator.

 

I also hope that you understand that I try to make constructive criticism in a language that is not mine and I assumed some effort typing...

 

 

 

 

From my point of view of potential client (or customer current RoF ) , if you want to have my 90 dollares in advance , there are two solutions to this problem:

 

 

- Get a time machine back to August and change the notice information page preorders which houses the BUY button . (Sorry , but even if it were possible, rather than 3000 preorders YOU HAD obtained 1500 or less ) .

 

 

- Include in the alpha / beta a button Login OFFLINE for those who , with every reason in the world , just want early access they expected .

 

 

 

 

In this way , you would get my $ 90 dollars in advance and from many other people aswell. And there would be far fewer people disappointed . Now my finger ( and my credit card ) are far from the BUY button and also my confidence in you has fallen a lot.

 

Because I was waiting to see what conditions led out of the sleeve, " et voila " here is .

 

 

 

OFFLINE ACCESS BUTTON IN EARLY ACCESS NOW!!!!!

 

 

And for the other customers (do not be fooled , that 's what you are all "founders" ) that attack and disrespect of others ( who also paid in advance with all good will and best wishes ) may not use their preorder due to 24/3 way. 

 

That is the real shame and childish behavior I see here.

 

If you are also happy with things, then do not reply to those who do not are and feeling cheated , that is the duty of the developers and moderators here, not others customers .

 

In this way I see, only you contribute to increasing bad feelings among people [EDITED OUT UNHELPFUL COMMENT - BY FSM]. I think maybe you did you create this flame war.

 

I would not pay 90 dollars for what, other customers (whose money is worth the same as mine ) , make fun of me for not having read what was not written, or had to search remote areas of the website, forum or Development Diaries. Or even on videos spoken in another language which is not my native. 

 

ALL information should be contained next to the BUY button.     Even in small font

 

 

 

 

And for those who think they have the right to tell others or me the reason why they were paid preorder, that's their or mine money, not yours, and I not know why you respond to their complaints (unless you are in the ranks of the company).

 

If I want to pay this now would be to save me 10 dollars and get access whenever I want (and knowing that is unfinished). And if that time that I run the game, 777 can not get data from my PC, not my problem, since I am getting early access and that's what was written on the page with the BUY button. Change now the conditions is a snake game for get my 90 dollars and keep an ace up its sleeve.

 

--- And edit to add that all these 2extras" (skins, unique weapons, gold plate / silver, etc) you pay 90 dollars is just marketing and baseless things. Given sweets to sweeten the price.

 

Now, 777, if you want of me simply to be a beta tester and too have to pay to be "so lucky" to you "let me" take part "and then waving EULA ... . But that's not what was written on the page where the content was BUY button.

 

If this is so, then what are your nice words and your preorder call and help us to develop we need you?

 

Luckily I did not fall for this "issue" thanks to my policy of PAY / DOWNLOAD / PLAY, but if everyone learned of this policy now, the next time you ask for development aid would get many less than 1000 preorders.

 

 

 

 

OFFLINE ACCESS BUTTON IN EARLY ACCESS NOW!!!!!

 

 

 

Signed. A potential customer (and current RoF) worried about what I'm reading here.

Edited October 27, 2013 by FlatSpinMan

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

I look forward to tomorrow when people have to return to work and don't have time anymore to keep this meanwhile pretty ridiculous argumentation alive.

Edited October 27, 2013 by I/JG27_Zimmi

[AnaRasanen]

It has been explained why there's no offline play yet.

[Siegfried]

It has been explained why there's no offline play yet.

No where is the BUY button...

[AcesHigh]

Wow ...... people are still complaining?   I guess the bright side is there were more people following and founding the game than I thought, this post brought everyone out of the woodwork!

[dburne]

 

First of all apologize for my poor English and could not express myself correctly, but the google translator.

 

I also hope that you understand that I try to make constructive criticism in a language that is not mine and I assumed some effort typing...

 

 

 

Signed. A potential customer (and current RoF) worried about what I'm reading here.

 

 

You did a pretty darn good job from what I read there, well said!

Smart job on waiting as well...

Edited October 27, 2013 by dburnette

[Eonel]

Another slightly peeved Founder customer coming out here.

 

I have seen no compelling reason why offline & unsupported access can not be permitted 24/7.

 

Perhaps put in an constraint that the account must have been validated and logged-in online during the previous 7 days. That still gives the Devs an option to close down the Alpha when necessary.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Eonel

[Foobar]

But the early access to an Alpha or Beta version for Premium Edition Founders (or whatever we are called) will start around Nov 12th, all going well.

 

Well I think it's important to understand and to use correct terms for "Release the game" and "early beta access". Otherwise it could be confusing for new members. Hard enough for even the old ones.

 

[dburne]

Perhaps they should change " Early Access" to " Early Limited Access".

[FlatSpinMan]

Or not. Early access doesn't necessarily mean FULL access, although I admit that is what I had assumed (well, full-ish). However,c'est la vie.

[dburne]

Or not. Early access doesn't necessarily mean FULL access, although I admit that is what I had assumed (well, full-ish). However,c'est la vie.

 

Early Access means - well - Early Access.

I guarantee, that amongst all of us disappointed Founders, the thought of it being a limited access to certain days/hours of the week, never entered our mind. Of course we new it would not be a finished ready for release product, but again the time limitation never even occurred to me.

For myself, this " limited" access = no access due to my work requirements - at least for however long it remains this way.

 

I will leave it alone now, I have certainly expressed my disappointment enough at this point, hopefully in a somewhat respective manner.

My combat sim focus for a while now anyway, will be directed elsewhere...

Edited October 27, 2013 by dburnette

[AnaRasanen]

No where is the BUY button...

 

True. I agree it should have been stated earlier and more clearly.

[Rama]

I also didn't assumed early access meant full access, and so wasn't disapointed. But I agree it wouldn't hurt to give more precision by changing "early access" with "early limited access" on the description.

I'm not sure it would make disapointed peoples less disapointed though.

 

Anyway, 12th of November is near, and if I read well the diary, the extension of the access will follow a few weeks after... and most probably this whole discussion will then look like a thunderstorm in a glass of water.

[BFsSmurfy]

Could be worse, you could have chucked $100 at a future WW2 flight sim development and the dev didn`t even visit his own section of the forum for 10 days, at least in mid Nov you`ll have something tangible from people who do support the forum and communicate even if we don`t like what we hear occasionally.

[dburne]

Could be worse, you could have chucked $100 at a future WW2 flight sim development and the dev didn`t even visit his own section of the forum for 10 days, at least in mid Nov you`ll have something tangible from people who do support the forum and communicate even if we don`t like what we hear occasionally.

 

Unfortunately I did that as well, actually little more than that.

I am personally not feeling very good at all anymore, about either of the two I have contributed to.

[Siegfried]

Or not. Early access doesn't necessarily mean FULL access, although I admit that is what I had assumed (well, full-ish). However,c'est la vie.

Early access doesn't necessarily mean Limited Access or restringed by time. We only can assume that the game will not be complete . Because , let's call " history " from other games , we all assumed it would be a game unfinished, but we could use him whenever we want. As we have in DCS for example. It is the way that most of the people I was directed this title had.

 

The rest should be warned .

 

Or perhaps in this friendly community, I have to pay 90 dollars to sign the EULA contract of the devil?

 

Or even write BUY button next to the " us we could not meet all the expectations of you because of the complicated career development to meet ... etc" or whatever .

 

In this way I now come and see a link on my facebook that I send to this forum to pay $ 90 and what I find is that people laugh who did not understand the things which were written in " a remote part of this thread of 13 pages " , and when I express my concern , I read that my concerns are ridiculous ( someone who is not developer or moderator ) , hopefully it arrives on Monday to not have time to complain, and I sent to some secret place to read something that should be in the header.

[BFsSmurfy]

^^^^

mate you need to calm down, don`t like the product or the seller don`t buy it, no need for a song and dance.

 

I`m confident we`ll be happy with what the 1CGS guys produce, that it will be supported and enlarged after release and the devs will communicate, to that end Don, I myself am not worried by BoS. However if I see a working or semi-working alpha  product from the other fella by Feb (the Alpha access as advertised) I`ll be amazed.

Edited October 27, 2013 by BFsSmurfy

[dburne]

 to that end Don, I myself am not worried by BoS. However if I see a working or semi-working alpha  product from the other fella by Feb (the Alpha access as advertised) I`ll be amazed.

 

Perhaps I should clarify, I have no doubt BOS will be a solid successful product at least the first release version. I have and fly ROF so I know what they can do.

 

What I meant was, regarding both of these ventures, I am not feeling very good at all anymore of my decision to pre-purchase/contribute.

[Siegfried]

Bah , I'm not worried, and actually my bucks is still in my pocket .

 

But I am concerned to see that we can not come here to say anything bad about our concerns why some whom we have nothing to do with the development team , try to silence those who have had problems .

 

I myself was hoping to buy ( waiting to see if there was any hidden clause in the shadows ) and could be in that situation too.

 

Now when some friends ask me about this simulator , I have to be notice of this to not look bad counselor.

 

Anyway I am a realist and just see what is all this really (this forum) . And I also know not to beat a dead horse ... as they say in English speaking .

 

 

And what really worries me and is the reason why I bother to write in this language strange to me is that in a market as small of my favorite simulators , still takes the standard hidden clauses , months ago I sent a email for help for development.

 

Unfortunately I was right with my reluctance to pay, with the info I had then.

 

Maybe some people have good intentions to pay for the good development of the game, but other more realistic  paid for play early access. Ok, it is legal to do this now by developers, but is also playing with goodwill.

 

Example: pay me $ XX.XXX by a car, and then I'll give you a car only for 3 days you will not be able to drive ... but do not worry, that within 2/3 months I let you use 24/7.

 

Otherwise I have no concern , no anger, no bad words , just bad taste in the mouth .

 

And apologize if I behaved like an annoying dead horse kicker .

[Bearcat]

I'm disappointed about the 3 day test period, it should have been communicated better when the pre-orders were being taken. I'm in the same boat as a lot of people here being a working adult with family commitments so three days during the week will give me very little time to get into the early access phase. On a positive note the new video for me was the best so far, it looks great.

 

Keep in mind that there has been no indication that this 72 hour limitation will be in effect throughout the entire early access phase only part of it.

[BigMotor]

Remember when original IL2 came out? We would go to work on 4 hours sleep after flying all night. Finding 1 or 2

hours in 72 was not a problem, we made it happen (work or no work) because it was a great sim.

 

Looking forward to some hard-core simming again!

[No.401_Alpine]

Thanks very much for the opportunity to play early,to play 72 hours a week,to help out and offer some feedback.This sim looks amazing,and i'm sure that it will have a long and successful life.

[HagarTheHorrible]

I'm not trying to stir it, honestly, I'm just picking up on the assumption that some people have that it will be 72 hours, the developers haven't  specifically said that, it said "three days".  That might, in fact, only be lunch time Tuesday through lunch time Thursday or some other variation and not nessecarilly a full 72 hours, then again it might be, just be careful about mixing up what the developers say with what some forum users might assume.

 

If there is one lesson, it's, do not read one thing, make assumptions, and then get all hissy when those assumption fall short of what is actually delivered.

Edited October 27, 2013 by HagarTheHorrible

[Rjel]

 

Bah , I'm not worried, and actually my bucks is still in my pocket .

 

But I am concerned to see that we can not come here to say anything bad about our concerns why some whom we have nothing to do with the development team , try to silence those who have had problems .

 

I myself was hoping to buy ( waiting to see if there was any hidden clause in the shadows ) and could be in that situation too.

 

Now when some friends ask me about this simulator , I have to be notice of this to not look bad counselor.

 

Anyway I am a realist and just see what is all this really (this forum) . And I also know not to beat a dead horse ... as they say in English speaking .

 

 

And what really worries me and is the reason why I bother to write in this language strange to me is that in a market as small of my favorite simulators , still takes the standard hidden clauses , months ago I sent a email for help for development.

 

Unfortunately I was right with my reluctance to pay, with the info I had then.

 

Maybe some people have good intentions to pay for the good development of the game, but other more realistic  paid for play early access. Ok, it is legal to do this now by developers, but is also playing with goodwill.

 

Example: pay me $ XX.XXX by a car, and then I'll give you a car only for 3 days you will not be able to drive ... but do not worry, that within 2/3 months I let you use 24/7.

 

Otherwise I have no concern , no anger, no bad words , just bad taste in the mouth .

 

 

 

I'd say you've been allowed to say plenty. And as long as your money is in your pocket, why would you even worry about the limited time access?

Edited October 27, 2013 by Rama
removing inflamatory comment

[Revvin]

Keep in mind that there has been no indication that this 72 hour limitation will be in effect throughout the entire early access phase only part of it.

 

I still don't regret my pre-purchase, my main reason was to support the genre and 777 as I've enjoyed RoF, I'm just disappointed that the developers have taken the decision to limit it in this way which possibly excludes a lot of founders from giving it some good air time and providing better feedback. Say you find something you want to report, a bug you think could cause issues, you may want to replicate it before calling it in but don't have time to do so, this could happen in the last few hours so you then you have to wait until the following week before being able to do so. From reading the dev diary it seems they have a lot of concern about people disclosing bugs to paint the sim in a bad light, that's a sad commentary on the flight sim community that people would do that but I don't feel the fears are unfounded having read these forums over the last year. If this limit on access time has been influenced by that then in my opinion it won't be the first time those with a disingenuous approach to this sim have created an issue like the gunpod debate and I hope 777 won't be too quick to potentially take things away (be it access or gunpods) from those who really want to see this sim become a success.