Developer Diary, Part 38

[Voidhunger]

lol

[sop]

Loved the vid,thks for posting.

[BMW801]

The Sturmovik video looks outstanding! More immersive than any flight sim footage I have ever seen.

 

I too am older with a busy job and teenage kids, and I will probably be unable to fly in the 3 day window provided, but this limitation is for the good of the sim. I would rather put up with the access limitations than have a substandard sim in the end. I feel this is an investment in what will be the new gold standard of WW II flight sims.

 

I'll wait patiently to have the most realistic sim possible

Edited October 26, 2013 by BMW801

[Bearcat]

I think if there is a problem with this

 

It is because the developers considered what THEY wanted from the early access.

 

What the Gold founders recieved was not really considered outside of that condition except in as much as it fullfilled the contract.

 

That might sound harsh and it's not meant too,  I just have a mental picture of the developers sitting around the office having a Monday morning development meeting and going "Right, what do we want/need from the early access Alpha".  They then proceed to discuss what they hope to get out of it and how they can best proceed to get the feedback required then, in an almost absent minded afterthough, somebody pipes up "what about the Gold founders, what do we do with them ?"

 

As good as communication has been from the developers I think they could have prepared the groundwork a little better or discussed the reasoning behind it more fully in the Founders section.  Having a chat goes a long, long way towards soothing ruffled feathers and I think they should have been better prepared for some of the angst.

I really don't think "wants" played a role in any of this. I think it was all driven by needs, and in this case they have to consider their needs not ours in order to finish this product. I think the devs sat around a table and said "How do we need to do this so that we can get the best bang for the buck to finish accomplishing what we need to accomplish so we can deliver a good product." .. and this was what they came up with for better or worse. I have no choice but to go with it but based on their past record I am comfortable in considering that just because I will not get what I wanted when I wanted it by no means that at the end of the day .. and before the final public release I will get access to the flight sim I have been promised.

 

And before anyone goes there .. by "bang for the buck" I do not mean money at all I mean it metaphorically. I mean the most information in the most concentrated, comprehensive form, so that that information is easiest to manage and process within the constraints of the work week and the manpower levels at their disposal. I think that is why this roll out is as it is.. and we have already been told that this will not be for the entire duration of the "early access" period so the sooner they get the info they need to move this to the next phase the better off we all will be.

 

Given those considerations we all need to just step back and deal with it.. As I said in a previous post.. I will make adjustments since it won't be forever.

[Dutch]

they have to consider their needs not ours in order to finish this product..

Ummmm......let me get this straight. the manufacturers have to consider their needs before the needs of their customers. Did I understand you correctly there mate?

[[JG2]Surf]

Can't wait to get the install and start checking this thing out.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

My needs are simple...The best WW2 flight sim i can get my hands on in 6 months time at release, that's what i paid my money for, to help the devs get to that point, if i can help them do that and have a little fun with early access along the way im happy.

[[JG2]Surf]

Based on my experience, alpha_early-beta access is driven my the developers needs to meet design waypoints on the project management timeline. So, yeah...it sure as heck better be all about developer incremental objectives.

[6S.Manu]

My needs are simple...The best WW2 flight sim i can get my hands on in 6 months time at release, that's what i paid my money for, to help the devs get to that point, if i can help them do that and have a little fun with early access along the way im happy.

 

Edited October 26, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Ummmm......let me get this straight. the manufacturers have to consider their needs before the needs of their customers. Did I understand you correctly there mate?

 

 

I think yes Dutch, but only if their needs produce a great sim delivered on time, then they are giving me what i want.

 

We all want the finished product right? that's what this is all about isn't it?

 

The 3000 pre-orders are great, but its the sales at release and for years after that is the goal, that will ONLY come if the sim is a success, that's what THEY and US want.

[6S.Manu]

Ummmm......let me get this straight. the manufacturers have to consider their needs before the needs of their customers. Did I understand you correctly there mate?

 

Their need is to develop a good product, for the sake of the customers and their business.

 

All this thing about "I paid for a full early access" (of an early alpha)... I find it really childish.

Edited October 26, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[Dutch]

Thanks all you chaps, but I was asking Bearcat.

[=RvE=Windmills]

Here's the thing; There is (now, all of a sudden!) a huge divide between the community and the developers and my understanding is that most of it relates to the fact that the 72 hours are weekdays and not the weekend (when more founders will be able to play)

 

If the developers would take the time to explain why they selected Tue-Thu instead of say, Fri-Sun then I think a lot of the bad feeling would be alleviated

 

 

The communication they're putting out is quite unsatisfactory imo.

 

A lot of questions and concerns have been put forth now, but the responses we've gotten honestly haven't alleviated any of them. So it won't be limited 'forever'? That's not the kind of reassuring necessary. Whatnot's post (http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1763-developer-diary-part-38/?p=42032) has been completely ignored while laying out the concerns most of us have very well. Instead, the responses given have an air of annoyance around them.

 

Jason even waves an EULA around, effectively saying that they can do whatever they want (The EULA everyone agreed to when they signed up, gives us the authority to do what we are doing). This is an extremely worrying kind of measure to resort to when it comes to communicating with worried costumers. I honestly cannot believe that they decided to even go there.

 

I don't even really care anymore about the midweek thing, what is more worrying to me is how this situation is being handled. I don't feel they're taking the complaints seriously at all. Obviously I wouldn't expect rude posts or baseless ones to warrant anything better, but I don't think that's the case here at all for the vast majority.

 

What I have seen from the game is amazing, all the credit in the world for that. But the way this is being handled I find worrying. People paid for the beta access, that is the critical point here.

Edited October 26, 2013 by iLOVEwindmills

[BMA_West]

Thx for the update.

Great video of the Sturmovic and rear-gunner position.

Nice rocket spray.

But still some work on the cockpit needed I presume.

Real happy with the Ace of diamonds Bf 109 F-4 skin, thx developer & everyone who also voted for that one.

The further breaking news about details over start of the early access are welcome indeed and I am sure a lot of us are looking forward to download your first game client - may we hope you will also provide us with a Torrent link so we all may participate in the distribution, maybe you can also consider such a system for the regular updates that will follow?

 Already anticipating the pop up of the first BOS interface etc: GOOD TIMES AHEAD FOR SURE.

You know better than anyone what suits best your developer needs while it sure is not the first time you have to fill those shoes, most of us do know, be assured! 

But we are probably just like you taken aback, speechless by the general negative attitude in this particular forum for the moment: he guys, it is supposed to be a game and one where you willingly agreed on lending a hand in it's development.

The German and Russian speaking forums definitely are a lot more pragmatic, Frenchies do not even have a clue yet LOL or may have better to do ... yep there is more to life than pas it in grumpiness in la douce France

So be assured still a lot of us here ready to oblige and giving you the help you asked for!  

[Bearcat]

Ummmm......let me get this straight. the manufacturers have to consider their needs before the needs of their customers. Did I understand you correctly there mate?

At the moment? Yes that is exactly right... They have an unfinished product. That is what this is, what we all know this is.. They have to consider their needs in order to finish this. They have stated that they want to deliver the best WWII flight sim that they can ... that is a part of their needs.. The need to finish this, that is a part of their needs. They cannot consider our needs fully at this point.. because let's face it, right now we want it, and we want it now dammit.. but they cannot meet their needs if they meet our needs.

 

 

Based on my experience, alpha_early-beta access is driven my the developers needs to meet design waypoints on the project management timeline. So, yeah...it sure as heck better be all about developer incremental objectives.

This.......

 

Here's the thing; There is (now, all of a sudden!) a huge divide between the community and the developers and my understanding is that most of it relates to the fact that the 72 hours are weekdays and not the weekend (when more founders will be able to play)

If the developers would take the time to explain why they selected Tue-Thu instead of say, Fri-Sun then I think a lot of the bad feeling would be alleviated

 

I understand where you are coming from Simon.... but they have done that.

 

Look at every post in this thread from Loft, Jason or Zak and you will have your answer which is why I say we need to just suck it up for now and the best thing we can do is try to get on during the times stated for the first week or so and hopefully they will get what they need to do what they need to do to open it up. You think I am not disappointed? You think the devs would not rather have a finished product by now? I am sure they would ... but they have the limited resources they have as far as people power, time and money.. and they have lives too.. They are working hard to deliver on this and you show me a plan in something like this that goes exactly as planned?

 

It is what it is and it is where it is and right now we all need to suck it up.. man up .. and just do what we have to do. If you can't get in that window then it sucks for you for now.. but the sooner all those who can get in that window do so and the devs get what they need then things will surely open up. All this angst and whatnot back and forth by the same people is moot and pointless.

 

You're upset. (Not a specific YOU but a generic YOU to all the folks who are still going on about this ) Everybody gets it. Yeah it sucks.. but it wont suck a few weeks from now hopefully and it surely wont suck or at worse will suck a lot less a month from now.. We need to get over it. Considering the prices of the final release we are still getting a bargain and considering everything that we have gotten information wise from the devs up to and including today all points to a great sim as the final product... So as I said.. suck it up and hopefully by the week of 11/25 give or take a week, everyone will be happier.. including the devs but we have to get there and getting there on a road littered with a bunch of tears will not be good. Not only that the prospect of having to field stuff like this ad nauseum from the same people over the next 3-4 weeks is going to get old very fast and it won't go very well for them.

 

That you can count on.

[Bearcat]

Heywood please check your PMs.

[Dutch]

At the moment? Yes that is exactly right... They have an unfinished product. That is what this is, what we all know this is.. They have to consider their needs in order to finish this. They have stated that they want to deliver the best WWII flight sim that they can ... that is a part of their needs.. The need to finish this, that is a part of their needs. They cannot consider our needs fully at this point.. because let's face it, right now we want it, and we want it now dammit.. but they cannot meet their needs if they meet our needs.

 

Well you might want it, but please don't speak for me. 'They cannot consider our needs'?? How can you say that when it is 'we' who are buying the product? How can you say that 'they cannot meet their needs if they meet our needs.'?

 

Surely the whole point is that 'their needs' should meet 'our needs' at every possible point of contact. Creating a dichotomy between 'their needs' and 'our needs' is just bloody silly. Sorry mate, just pretend we're in the pub.

[Bearcat]

No the point is that right now .. they need to finish this.. and that need supercedes all.

 

That is the only point and the only reality that matters. If that is too difficult or unacceptable for you to grasp then perhaps you should not come around here much until such time as the product's implementation meets your satisfaction.

 

Please do not continue to feed this. It is what it is and all the continued complaining will not change anything until such time as the product is ready to move to the next phase, therefore I would appreciate it if you would desist in further rehashing an already very well articulated, documented and acknowledged position that is shared by a number of equally vocal founders.

 

I get it.

 

The devs get it.

 

You need to get what I am saying because the mods here will not continue to field stuff like this for the next 3 weeks.

[Dutch]

all the continued complaining will not change anything

But I haven't been complaining BC. See my first post in this thread. I have no complaints regarding either the three day mid-week or the short time it will be available to the premium founders.

 

No problem here. I'm just having a chat with some friends, that's all. You don't mind, do you?

[MACADEMIC]

Thanks for the update!

 

I must say I'm extremly impressed by the methodic, consistent, measured and professional way in which this project is managed and rolled out. Way to go!

 

 

MAC

[dburne]

Their need is to develop a good product, for the sake of the customers and their business.

 

All this thing about "I paid for a full early access" (of an early alpha)... I find it really childish.

 

Never mind..........

[Trident_109]

But I haven't been complaining BC. See my first post in this thread. I have no complaints regarding either the three day mid-week or the short time it will be available to the premium founders.

 

No problem here. I'm just having a chat with some friends, that's all. You don't mind, do you?

What makes you think it will be a short time. I'm not singling you out specifically, Dutch. I've seen that opinion from several forum members and it makes no sense to me.

[Rigsby]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the game will be released a few days after Tuesday, 11th, November. Well, given that access to the servers is going to be Tuesday & Thursday, won't this then mean the game is going to be released over a week later on Tuesday, 19th, November? Can you tell me if this is correct?

 

 

[AndyJWest]

Tuesday is the 12th - the day that Jason said they were "shooting for". http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1675-developer-diary-part-37/page-4?do=findComment&comment=41351

[IIN8II]

I must say that it must be really frustrating to be a developer and read this forum sometimes. Wasn't the whole concept of being a Founder to support the development of the game? We (I) payed extra money to support the dev team and to help them create the best game possible. As a thank you for this the dev team gave us some extra planes and specials skins etc. Most importantly they offered us the ability to be a part of the development of this title. The early access was never going to be, nor promised to be, the full game. Its an opportunity for those of us who have invested extra into this project to see where it stands at this point and to give constructive feedback. Yes, it is a unfortunate that we will only be able to play limitedly online, at least for the start of early access, but that is what is available right now. I truly feel that if they could give us more now, they would. For those who are complaining about some lack of communication from the dev team, what is this forum for? The Dev blogs? The live streams? Its been really frustrating to see the amount of negativity/complaining that seems to constantly follow every post or update from the dev team. I honestly feel that most Founders are happy with the development process thus far (not saying its been perfect). I understand that as hardcore sim players we want the best game possible especially with the limited number of combat flight sim games available. Don't you think the developers want this too? Our flying fun is relying on this game to be successful yes, but their jobs are.

 

Sorry to go on such a long winded rant, but I felt the need to say something. Im not saying that people shouldn't voice concern point out things they feel may be incorrect with the game its self. It just seems that some people seemed to confuse paying more to be a Founder to support the game as paying more to have the full game earlier than those who pay less and now they feel ripped off somehow.  

Edited October 27, 2013 by IIN8II

[Rigsby]

Tuesday is the 12th - the day that Jason said they were "shooting for". http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1675-developer-diary-part-37/page-4?do=findComment&comment=41351

Got my days muddled up sorry. Also, who said this wasn't like a Television show? I mean, it's just like a Tv show now you get to see it on certain days of the week lol. Seriously, though, it's no biggy that you get to play it on certain days at first, and if you do travel a lot then I'm sure you will have a good laptop to play it on.

[II./JG27_Rich]

This all starts Nov. 12?

[II./JG27_Rich]

Where did you get that vid of me and Bongo from? i thought i had it set to private!

Fantastic taste in cinema Furbs

[FuriousMeow]

It just seems that some people seemed to confuse paying more to be a Founder to support the game as paying more to have the full game earlier than those who pay less and now they feel ripped off somehow.  

 

That's the point of contention that many are throwing about, that is, in fact, incorrect.

 

We are paying less for early access/founder. $90 vs $100 at release. We also get unlockable items without having to unlock them.

 

Standard vs Premium isn't $40 more for the latter for earlier access, it's $40 more for the two planes plus the unlocked items.

Edited October 27, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[AnaRasanen]

Standard vs Premium isn't $40 more for the latter for earlier access, it's $40 more for the two planes plus the unlocked items.

 

I thought this too. I feel sorry for you Premium Edition people who feel cheated and I think those testing days should have stated earlier, but...

 

1) You still have two extra planes

2) Mid-week only testing won't propably last for long

3) It's alpha, what did you expect?

4) It's only about 30-35 % of the finished product. What do you think you can do playing (testing) it? You propably can take off, fly and pew pew a little, land and that's it so you won't be missing that much.

 

You really should think why you purchased the Premium Edition in first place. I didn't since I'm pretty sure I can purchase those two extra planes later for less than 40 $ and I don't see why I would pay to do alpha testing without getting paid myself. I'm not a professional game tester, I'm just a casual sim gamer and I know I have absolutely nothing to give for the development of this game. So was it because of those fancier Founder-tags or what?

[Trident_109]

See what you started, Jason? 

 

 

[hiro]

Alright, to all the people complaining and how you want to rescind your early premium and you felt betrayed or the news caused you to spill your cup of java on your lap and burned your thighs off so now you can't use CH rudders and you wish you could sue 777 for backorders and losses for  whatever because of the limited playing time : 

 

[EDITED OUT UNHELPFUL REMARKS]

Take a time out and be responsible. A mark of a gentleman and a lady is they know their limits and when to hold their tongue.  [EXACTLY]

 

Note that the preorder is to support the game. And upon release, you instantly (nearly) have a copy, ready to go. That's it. If one didn't want, they could sit on the sidelines and wait until IGN or gamespot posts the 9's and 10's (I feel this game is going to have), or hear squadrons of simmers talking about the awesomeness and go get it then. 

 

Don't preorder and whine the devs pulled a fast one. 

 

The pre play part is the dev's being freakin cool enough to let us jump in the sandbox and build a better game with them. 

 

 

It's like a 16 year old barista who hasn't done anything else outside of school, telling a nuclear propulsion specialist in the Navy how to maintain the reactor on Sub X. Step back, and let the devs work. If you can't make the 3 days, sometimes junk happens, and maybe see if there's a window.

 

Remember being included in the beta test is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.     [uNHELPFUL REMARK]

 

 

One of the reasons of limited flight time is because the devs are gathering data, they say so in the journal. 

 

Part of running beta tests is doing things in a controlled (meaning as much variables are accounted for) environment as much as possible. And one way is to limit the amount of data coming in so you don't get overwhelmed. 

 

It's ok to voice your opinion but the devs already know about it. It's pointless to whine and cheese the point in. 

 

 

So Dev's. Don't pay attention to it. Thanks for the update. Keep calm and SDLC on. 

 

 

 

Now that off my chest, the game is looking nice with the IL-2. I'm getting excited to actually check it out when the game comes along. 

 

And thanks for the communication and updates. I like the organized format and consistency. It's a good thing. Please keep it up. The skin for Bf-109 is awesome, but please if you can also add the metallic aluminum silver skin for the planes in the game, that'd be nice. 

Edited October 27, 2013 by FlatSpinMan

[SvAF/F19_Klunk]

I don't get where "I payed EXTRA money for early access" comes from... Someone even said he paid 40 bucks extra..

 

No you didn't. You bought the game EARLIER to get early access. When it comes to money, you are actually given a discount! Final launch will be spring 2014; $59,99 for Standard edition and $99,99 for Premium edition. That means that the offer that stands now for initial Premium at $89,99 is really a bargain price-wise ($10 discount) and  it will grant buyers early access PLUS all the bonus stuff that is connected with this offer.

 

So stop moaning about the money. I respect what you are saying about the 3 days time window weekdays, but moneywise.. no. That only means you have no clue what you are talking about

Edited October 27, 2013 by F19_Klunk

[FlatSpinMan]

I don't get where "I payed EXTRA money for early access" comes from... Someone even said he paid 40 bucks extra..

 

No you didn't. You bought the game EARLIER to get early access. When it comes to money, you are actually given a discount! Final launch will be spring 2014; $59,99 for Standard edition and $99,99 for Premium edition. That means that the offer that stands now for initial Premium at $89,99 is really a bargain price-wise ($10 discount) and  it will grant buyers early access PLUS all the bonus stuff that is connected with this offer.

 

So stop moaning about the money. I respect what you are saying about the 3 days time window weekdays, but moneywise.. no. That only means you have no clue what you are talking about

 

This. 

[Zak]

If the developers would take the time to explain why they selected Tue-Thu instead of say, Fri-Sun then I think a lot of the bad feeling would be alleviated

It's been stated in the post #1 (written by Loft). It's weekdays because we're working while you're playing. This makes us an operator as if IL2BOS was an MMO, and we don't (and not supposed to) have resourses for that. But we're doing it and we'll do our best for you to enjoy that show.

 

Tuesday is the 12th - the day that Jason said they were "shooting for". http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/1675-developer-diary-part-37/page-4?do=findComment&comment=41351

November 12th

"shooting for"

yes

[Pupo]

I don't get where "I payed EXTRA money for early access" comes from... Someone even said he paid 40 bucks extra..

 

No you didn't. You bought the game EARLIER to get early access. When it comes to money, you are actually given a discount! Final launch will be spring 2014; $59,99 for Standard edition and $99,99 for Premium edition. That means that the offer that stands now for initial Premium at $89,99 is really a bargain price-wise ($10 discount) and  it will grant buyers early access PLUS all the bonus stuff that is connected with this offer.

 

So stop moaning about the money. I respect what you are saying about the 3 days time window weekdays, but moneywise.. no. That only means you have no clue what you are talking about

 

 

YOU bought the game for the reasons you stated. Everyone bought the game for different reasons. I for one only bought the alfa version so that i could play the game a little bit before leaving the country in January for a considerable amount of time. I hope you can understand my insatisfaction to find out that i wont be able to play it all due to a 72 hour limitation to a time frame where i'm not available.

 

If i had know this from the beginning i would have not placed my pre-order and would have bought the game upon return.

Edited October 27, 2013 by E69_Pupo

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

YOU bought the game for the reasons you stated. Everyone bought the game for different reasons. I for one only bought the alfa version so that i could play the game a little bit before leaving the country in January for a considerable amount of time. I hope you can understand my insatisfaction to find out that i wont be able to play it all due to a 72 hour limitation to a time frame where i'm not available.

 

If i had know this from the beginning i would have not placed my pre-order and would have bought the game upon return.

 

 

Ok, but if you had brought the game upon return, you would pay more, not played at all, or received the bonus content plus you wouldn't of helped the developers in the making of the sim.

 

Your choice of course, but that would seem a odd way of looking at it to me.

Edited October 27, 2013 by =BKHZ=Furbs

[FlatSpinMan]

Just for a change of atmosphere, and as a reminder of what we are actually here to pretend we're doing:

 

Wings of Russia: Fighters: Stormy Years (1943)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tFuLcqn3Y&list=PL69B0CB4788F64720

 

Wings of Russia: Sturmoviks and Frontline Bombers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaU_yuCfWSk&list=PL69B0CB4788F64720

[AnaRasanen]

YOU bought the game for the reasons you stated. Everyone bought the game for different reasons. I for one only bought the alfa version so that i could play the game a little bit before leaving the country in January for a considerable amount of time. I hope you can understand my insatisfaction to find out that i wont be able to play it all due to a 72 hour limitation to a time frame where i'm not available.

 

If i had know this from the beginning i would have not placed my pre-order and would have bought the game upon return.

 

Can you ask refund or downgrade to Standard Edition?

[ACG_Dickie]

Surely would've made more sense to have weekend play and then deal with the collected data Mon~Fri.  I'm annoyed that this wasn't announced,  I'm disappointed since I don't do much online midweek as I have other things in my life.  Basically this means I just saved $10 buying the extra planes in advance,  whoopy-do.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Osprey